[begin transcript]
ART BELL
A few announcements, and then a real cosmic voyage ahead.
Because tonight as promised, a tenured PhD professor at Emory
University, Dr. Courtney Brown, heads a group of remote viewers
at something called the Farsight Institute. And this is one of
the most fascinating topics that one can imagine. So all the way
from the home of the newly opened Olympic games in Atlanta
Georgia, Dr. Brown will come... [discussion of other subjects]
ART BELL
This morning's guest, Dr. Courtney Brown, professor Brown, also
has a web page, and when you go to my web page this morning to
get one of these crop circle pictures no doubt, and you want to
know about Cosmic Voyage, about Remote Viewing, we have a
linkup, as we usually do, due to the attentiveness of my
webmaster, Keith Rowland. You will see that link, and you can
jump over to the good Doctor's web page...
[discussion of other
subjects]
ART BELL
All right, are you strapped in, are you ready? Courtney Brown,
Doctor Brown, Professor Brown, P-H-D, is an Associate Professor
of Political Science at Emory University in Atlanta,
specializing in non-linear mathematical modeling of social
phenomenon, environmental politics and elections. He held the
Charles Grove Hanes's Professorship at UCLA and was a Hewlitt
fellow at the Carter President Center.
He is the author of
several books including Serpents in the Sand, sounds
interesting, Essays on the Non-linear Nature of Politics
{chuckles}, and - I like that title - and Human Destiny and
Chaos and Catastrophe Theories, both published in 1995. The good
doctor heads a group of remote viewers at a place called the Farsight Institute, and one of their main targets, I understand,
has been Mars, but let us begin at the beginning, Doctor
welcome to the program, can you hear me?
DR BROWN
I can hear you very well and Art, I want to say thank you very
much for having me on your show, it is truly a great honor.
ART BELL
Well, it is a great honor to have you, and I can assure you that
over the last weeks and months I have been inundated with faxes
and email and so forth and so on forth saying, you have got to
get Doctor Brown on! {Brown: ...kind words...}
Alright, I
guess for our new listeners and we have many, who have not,
and don't understand and who have not heard what Remote Viewing
is, it would be in order, I've got sort of a written description
you sent me here but I'd like to have your words, Doctor, for the uninitiated, what is remote viewing?
DR BROWN
Well, remote viewing quite simply is a mental procedure. Now,
it's a trainable mental procedure. It enables a person to
extract accurate, descriptive information from distant
locations. Now remote viewing it also works across time, in the
sense that the remote viewer can actually extract information
from the past, present or future.
Totally transparent with
regard to time, as if time doesn't exist, in fact we know now
that that's not a metaphor, we know now that in reality, I'll
talk about this as the hours go on but we know now that the
actual fact is that time is a limitation of our perception, time
is not a real thing.
ART BELL
Isn't that time is our invention?
DR BROWN
Well, that's what many people have recently been
discovering, that we may in fact in the broader view of
things before our lives and after our lives be a species that in
fact helped design our current situation and [?] in fact an
invention, but I, think I perhaps I should touch upon that a
little later on in the show with a little more background to it,
the reality is time with remote viewing is not a hindrance at
all, you can see anything past, present or future.
Scientific Remote Viewing is the version of remote viewing that
I'll be talking about tonight. It refers to -- sometimes it's
called "SRV," Scientific Remote Viewing -- it refers to a set of
protocols that are a modernized version of the original
techniques that were used and developed by the U.S. military in
the 1980's and 90's, totally for espionage purposes --
ART BELL
Alright, I'll stop you there, and those who don't know,
Nightline, ABC's Nightline, did a full show on the military's
revelations that they had been using remote viewers, remote
viewing, doing remote viewing, in an ongoing project for what
Doctor, 20 years, something like that?
DR BROWN
Well actually they'd been using operationally during that
time the 80's was really when it was at its highest point, but
the remote viewing studies, the scientific studies funded by the
military had been going on for as long as, as long as 30 years.
The military had been deeply involved in this for a, a long time
for very very good reasons. First of all, it did just recently
come out that the military was involved in all of this, but it
was one of the most highly classified secrets held by our
government basically since the Manhattan project --
ART BELL
-- and I take it no doubt that the Russians were involved as
well --
DR BROWN
Well of course, there, you know during the cold war there was
something on our side for everything that there was on their
side, and vice versa, and they had their own psychic warfare
espionage program, but they looked at it from a different angle
from the way the United States did it. We approached it from the
perspective of developing a set of procedures that could be
trained so that you would not have to rely on natural psychics,
and the Soviets went a different route, they developed a set of
screening techniques that were used for sorting out the very
best natural psychics in all of their territory.
They in fact
did develop a program that was very successful. The U.S.
military's program had an operational success rate, variously? reported but in general, 85% of the data had to
be correct 85% of the time. {Bell: Wow.} Now that was extremely
high, that was nothing remotely similar to anything you get with
a 1-900 number {Bell: laughs} and that type of thing, this was a
very highly classified project --
ART BELL
Well let me ask you this --
DR BROWN
But the Soviets did it differently, they used natural psychics.
ART BELL
-- and their success rate?
DR BROWN
Eighty percent. But that means they got to be fairly close to
the U.S. accuracy rate. But the Soviet Union came apart, as you
know, and it should be noted that their technology for doing
this, for setting up a team and getting the procedures set in
place that organized the highly trained psychics to get this
eight-five accuracy rate which was no small task, those
procedures were sold to the highest bidders when the Soviet
Union collapsed, and two countries bought them, and one of those
is a perceived enemy of the United States, that we have bombed
in the past, and so, you can be guaranteed, whether you hear
about it in the news or not --
ART BELL
Iraq?
DR BROWN
actually, it's so sensitive, there are a couple of topics
that I don't want to mention specifics {Bell: and we just
[found?] one of them?}, but they are, they are countries that we
have bombed, that have, that long memories, that have grudges,
and remote viewing will be around for a long time, if for no
other reason than for national security interests.
ART BELL
hmmmn. what do you say to somebody who says baloney, new
age, claptrap, what a bunch of silliness, there's no way
to document the kind of success rates that people like yourself
claim, I'm throwing the worst at you here {Brown: Sure.}, how do
you respond to that?
DR BROWN
Well this is a very common statement, you must understand
that it comes from a species that is genetically designed to be
almost blind to the "other side" of life. In my book,
Cosmic
Voyage, quite literally as the subtitle says it is a scientific,
scientific discovery of extraterrestrials visiting earth, but
you must understand that much of the scientific community is
hampered by the very fact that we are genetically set up, so to
speak, to be so blind to that other side of life.
I call that
side of life, that's been called the spirit side or the soul
side, I use a more generic term, which is, basically
there's a whole realm of life that we've now discovered on that
other side of life, the side where we came from, where the soul
is, we are in fact part of it, I call it the sub-space side of
life, and that has in fact caught on quite well because it
describes a whole arena of existence and we are in fact
composite beings, with a physical, you know, blood flesh and
bone --
ART BELL
Alright doctor let me ask you this -- [lack of clarity as Bell
and Brown both talk]...
ART BELL
...with respect to this side, of life, and I agree with you,
that but what I'm not sure about is whether it's
something we once had, and have become numb to in modern
civilization, and has always been there, or whether it is
something we are now refining, acquiring, using more of our
brains, is it something new or something old that is just now
new again...
DR BROWN
It goes back to the beginning of existence. You see remote
viewing is innate in every human, you don't have to be talented
to do it, you have to be trained to do it, and it goes back, in
fact the earliest remote viewers were the prophets, the ancient
the seers, and some of them were pretty good {Bell: Nostradamus},
some of them were very excellent at being able to perceive
things across time, across space, in fact many of our biblical
stories are in fact fairly accurate remote viewing perceptions.
in my book Cosmic Voyage, for example, I [?] -- there's a
chapter on Adam and Eve. And that was a very interesting target
to look at, because at first we thought that was just a biblical
story --
ART BELL
You looked at it?
DR BROWN
Oh yeah, because it's a very important -- we found out a very
important thing, because in fact, see the remote viewing done by
the early, early seers, they didn't call it remote viewing of
course but they just had people who were naturally inclined,
they perceived something, but they put it within their own
framework of understanding, and these ancient seers perceived in
their own trance-like states that there was a, somehow couple
involved in the early days of humanity, and that somehow there
was a dispute.
There was a war of some type, that there was some
type of a betrayal, and that somehow Adam and Eve were somehow
involved in the beginning, the Genesis of human life, as, as the
early remote viewers the early seers knew it, so when we
actually did the remote viewing for this, we found that in fact,
the ancient prophets were pretty good, they got most of it
right, what they didn't get is things that they could never
understand within their culture, within their time, what they
didn't get was that the couple, Adam and Eve, were project
managers of a genetic and cultural uplift project [?...] --
ART BELL
Holy mackeral!
DR BROWN
-- they came here with ships, and there was in fact a sub-space,
and physical dimensional war, and that the sides did in fact,
did have to take sides -- [lack of clarity as Bell and Brown
speak simultaneously]
ART BELL
Doctor wait, boy this is getting heavy fast, let me stop you
-- again just for a second -- so that I understand and the
audience understands, a practiced professional remote
viewer, how does he do it? -- do you in other words, go into a
trance state -- hear my whole question -- I would like to know,
and the audience I'm sure wants to know, it it like, are you
looking through somebody else's eyes, are you physically having
an out of body experience and looking at it with with your
own eyes, as though you would stand up in the room, in other
words, I want to know how you see, and what it is that you see...
DR BROWN
OK. What these procedures are, very simply, when you're sitting
down you're sitting down at your own desk, and the procedures
for the remote viewing session, just the mechanical procedures
themselves, take about an hour, with prep time of about half an
hour, there's a lot, there's some analysis and other things that
are done afterward, the total thing takes about three hours
start to finish before you're out of there, but the actual
procedures themselves start to finish take about an hour.
Now,
the remote viewing itself, what it is is the following: the best
way I can tell you what the experience is like, when someone is
remote viewing during that hour of intensive orientation, it's
not an out of body experience, that's something different. It is
not a trance experience either.
What it is, is a shifting of
awareness, a shifting of perception, now basically, look at
this, what are you looking at now, you don't have to answer,
just in general, you're looking at your microphone?, your
listeners may be looking at the steering wheel of their car, or
they may be looking at something in their homes, whatever
they're looking at, they're looking at something, whatever
you're looking at, in your mind's eye, keep your eyes open,
bring in the image of a pencil.
Now with your eyes open, you're
still looking at whatever at your look -- now you're also
looking at this image of a pencil in your mind's eye, now note
the [?] heart label, notice the #2 on the pencil, the metal band
around the eraser, the pink eraser, the sharp point at the other
end, notice that this pencil that you're seeing, even though
your eyes are open and you're not physically looking at a
pencil, you're nonetheless seeing a pencil.
And what we have
found out is that -- this is from the neurologists that found
this not, not the remote, they're neurologists -- have found out
that inside the brain, there is a physical layer of cells that
basically is in the frontal part and goes back of the brain,
that the ocular image from your eye is projected onto, literally
like a movie screen. And when you see the [?] heart label, the
pencil and everything, the remembered image is taken from say,
your hard drive of the memory, it's taken from your memory and
projected on to that same screen.
But notice that image of the
pencil, notice it's a little transparent, it's a little {Bell:
Right.} translucent in the sense that you can see through
it, not as bright an image as the stuff that's coming into your
eyes, so the remembered image is dimmer than the actual ocular
image.
Now, the remote viewing image, you get all the other
senses working with remote viewing as well, but the, the basic,
the image is dimmer still than the remembered image, it's
foggier, it's fuzzier, it's [?] -- what you're doing when you're
remote viewing is you're shifting your awareness, even though
your eyes are open, you're shifting your awareness, away from
the physical ocular image {Bell: I understand.} away from the
remembered images {Bell: I understand.}, onto this remote
viewing image --
ART BELL
I understand, Doctor, Doctor we've got to pause right here...
stay right there, Dr. Courtney Brown is my guest and we'll be
right back...
[BREAK]
ART BELL
And underway, a good, cogent explanation of what remote viewing
really is. And for the first time, I'm beginning to grasp where
we're going. My guest is Dr. Courtney Brown, Professor Brown
from Emory University. He leads a team of remote viewers. You'd
be well advised to listen closely, because maybe you too can
take a cosmic voyage, I and suspect the answer is yes.
[discussion of other subjects]
ART BELL
All right here we go again, Doctor, welcome back to the program.
I really am able to grasp so far where we have been, to look
at an object in front of you, picture the pencil, which I can
easily do, and that is as if it is from our hard drive, we have
dredged this from our memory. But that is not remote viewing, is
it?
DR BROWN
No that's remembering an image from the past. And it's as if
there are three different projectors in our own brain, and the
three are, the projector that gets images from the eye, another
projector with a lower luminosity, a dimmer bulb, that gets
images from the memory, and then a third projector with the
dimmest bulb, and probably the foggiest lens, and that is the
one that gets things from what we call the sub-space side of
ourselves.
Now, I want to say something that's very important,
that most of your listeners are going to really want to key in on
this, you know there've been a lot of complaints over the
decades, about wasted military spending {Bell: Yes.}, about
how our military's spent so much money for a hammer, so much
money for a toilet seat or whatever, but I want to tell you that
the military, the US Army, the Defense Intelligence Agency, not
the CIA, the DIA, every branch of the government has its own
spies, even the IRS has it's own spies, but the defense
intelligence agency, the DIA, the Pentagon, invested over a
couple decades, only 20 million at Stanford Research Institute,
now called SRI International.
20 million dollars is pocket
change as far as the Pentagon is concerned, and for only 20
million dollars they developed over a couple of decades these
protocols of remote viewing and let me tell you that if you have
no other reason for wanting these protocols around than this,
listen here: what the scientists did at
Stanford Research
Institute, at SRI International, the most, one of the most
prestigious defense scientific think tanks, laboratories on the
planet earth, what they did is give the world absolute positive
proof, certifiable positive proof, in laboratory conditions, of
the existence of the human soul.
Because you see, remote viewing
is not possible in the absence of a soul, because you see don't
physically go to any of these places but you can describe these
things with "extraordinarily" accuracy across time, space,
anywhere on the planet and beyond, exact descriptions, down to
the most incredible details {Bell: wait a minute.}, reliably
consistent --
ART BELL
Right, wait, wait just one second, that really is incredible,
but how does it prove it - it - let me ask it this way -- you
say it proves the existence of the human soul --
DR BROWN
Because see, the soul has different physics, different physical
characteristics, different aspects, than the human physical
body, it extends beyond your physical body, we now know that
when the physical body dies it sloughs off -- you are not dead,
the personality does not go away, the part of you that is in
fact doing the remote viewing is the essential self, and that
continues on -- and what you must understand is that the remote
viewing itself, when you're doing that, we call that other side
of ourselves, that is, human, the soul side, the "sub- space"
aspect, and that, that is the component of yourself, the
essential you that you're using when you're remote viewing, and
it's that component that is projecting onto the physical brain,
that foggier, fuzzier image --
ART BELL
Got you {Brown: that you're using...} but I'm -- but I'm still
not clear, in other words, suppose I were to say to you, what
you're talking about, I firmly believe, does exist, I
believe you can do it, it can be done, people can be trained to
do it, but: suppose I were to argue with you and say, it
does not establish scientifically the existence of the soul, it
establishes scientifically the ability of the brain to
accomplish things that, that we have long forgotten --
DR BROWN
Well you see, the brain is a electrochemical physical
apparatus [Bell: right], under the normal laws of three plus one
dimensional physics, it is not possible for anything
electrochemical physical to do what it does with regard to
remote viewing, there has to be another component, another
aspect, completely un... -- well, not yet completely understood by
the science of today, and in scientific terms what you'd say is,
there is a hypothesis.
An hypothesis is a statement that you
want to see if it works out. {Bell: Yes...} And the hypothesis
is, if there is a soul that is fundamentally non-physical but
exists as real as the head or the foot or anything else, if
there is a soul which is fundamentally non- physical then it
should be able to do things, such as know things, perceive
things, that the physical body cannot do, and so you give it a
test, you develop and use these remote viewing procedures and in
fact you find out that you have to reject the null hypothesis
which is that there is no soul, you have to accept the
alternative hypothesis that there is, because you in fact are
able to do that which the physical body cannot do.
ART BELL
Well...
DR BROWN
That's the nature of the hypothesis testing - if you're
wondering about that, I have to say that that's what all of
science is out there doing, they're doing these hypothesis, they
say IF this exists, then you must be able to this do X, Y or Z
with it -- and that's how we build our airplanes, that's how we
build our skyscrapers, our bridges, all the realm of physics,
all the realm of science is built up, built up on establishing
hypothesis, and these hypothesis are what we use to
fundamentally come up with what we call our laws.
The laws of
sub-space are in our, what you might call our state of Genesis,
of understanding, we don't understand all of the physics of the
soul, we don't understand all of the physics of the sub-space
side of life, the spiritual side of life, but there is nothing
in any spiritual text where God has forbidden us to ever
investigate the physics of the spirituality, or the physics of
consciousness, and we're just at that beginning.
So part of your
question I've answered Art, the rest of the question is to be
answered not by myself, but to be answered by physicists, other
scientists, as the decades go on, as we unravel every little
small piece of this physics of the soul. But we know at
this point with absolute certifiable factual understanding,
that there is more to us than just a physical body because in
fact remote viewing would be impossible without that other
aspect of ourselves.
ART BELL
Does remote viewing, at any point establish, truly, the
immortality of the soul itself?
DR BROWN
Well, just the fact of being able to remote view does not do
that. {Bell: Right. Right.} But having remote viewed both myself
and re... - and have, and you know we've had over thirty students
at the Farsight Institute, that's F-A-R-S-I-G-H-T like seeing
far, one word, and we've had over 30 students, and the military
itself trained nineteen remote viewers.
Having had these remote
viewers operational, we now know that in fact we've
perceived all sorts of things, that, it's clear as could
be that we do not die. It's not just the existence, ability to
remote view and train it, it's the fact that we have, once
gotten that existence, gotten that ability, trained ourselves,
used it perceive, before our own birth, after our death, we have
perceived things that deeply go into the realm of the
non-physical -- mind you, that everything that I've talked about
with remote viewing as originally developed and in training, was
always done with verifiable targets, physical hard targets
{Bell: Understood.}
That you can verify, so when you use these
exact same procedures, you get extraordinarily accurate, great
accuracy rates, on the more difficult targets, more esoteric
targets, things with the realm of life after death and so on, we
get very, very good, reliable types of information, using those
same, those same procedures that are sufficiently accurate to
risk men and women's lives on the battlefield for, you can then
use those procedures to answer other questions {Bell: Yes...},
other more global --
ART BELL
Alright, before we leave the nature of the soul, I want to ask you about the nature of the soul, obviously
you, far sight, with regard to the nature of the soul, Doctor, do we come back, are we reincarnated, are --
DR BROWN
We have, we have found that there is no police force out there
that would stop a personality, a sub-space being, a soul, from
coming back in physical life if he or she so wished. We have
found that in fact many people have had, we have checked it out,
we have remote viewed under totally blind conditions and I'll
explain that later on in the show, under totally laboratory type
conditions, we have found out that in fact, people have existed
before, we have found out that they have existed in physical
form many times -- you see, the physical body, we know, is just
a vehicle, like your car, and after a certain number of years,
it wears out and it drops off -- but the driver is still there.
The driver, the personality, the sub-space being, you may call
it the soul, is there before the physical body is turned on, and
it's there after the physical body decays, and drops off. But we
absolutely know that the body is just something we live within,
we are occupying it, and the genetics of the body is absolutely
spectacularly fascinating {Bell: It is!} because our genetics
are so structured that, in our particular genetic mix, a lot of
ET's we now know, do not have genetic mixes, genetic mixes like
ours, our particular genetic mix makes us almost totally blind
to the flavor of the soul, to the memory of who
we were, who we are in fact, where we came from.
In fact, in
ET circles we've found out that we are often referenced as a
species, as -- and not derisively, not mockingly, but with
admiration -- we are often called 'The Masters of Limitation'
because we have collective, we have a set of genes that, that
develop into bodies that make us almost blind to whatever came
before, and whatever comes after, and we don't see past time, we
don't see past our physical bodies, our physical experience, and
that's because of the genetic structure we have, other ET's have
different genetic mixes, and in fact, don't have those problems
at all.
Well you may say, 'Well that's a problem with us,' but
--
ART BELL
In fact, I would say, doesn't it mean we're more or less cosmic
dummies?
DR BROWN
Well, you could say that, but you see, before we were
physically born we knew everything, and after we die, we know
everything once again, what would be the purpose of wanting to
come into these very limited physical bodies? Well the purpose
is, we now know from remote viewing, data that goes back a long
time, we now know that what happens when you come into physical
form like this, by forgetting everything that you've been
before.
You basically as far as you're concerned, have a hundred
years, approximately, a little less, or more whatever, however
long you live, to pack everything you possibly can imagine into
that short period of time, every experience you can possibly
think of, to make love one more time, to get another car, get
another job, to go to the beach one more time, to get, to write
one more book, to do one more thing, the point is you develop
your personality more in one lifetime as a physical human
because you run a race of time, for those few short years of
your life you do everything --
ART BELL
Otherwise we would be like cosmic welfare recipients sitting
around not concerned about packing anything into this life at
all --
DR BROWN
We have found out that -- in the sub-space side of
life -- you don't die, that there's no real pressure to
develop, and development occurs more slowly {Bell:
Fascinating.}, this is an acceleration school that we live in,
and in fact, I might mention that we have remote viewed a
few other species, and in fact when you remote view Adam and
Eve, right now of course they're not dead, they're not dead
anymore than when they were project ET genetic and cultural
uplift managers in their project here, but when you remote view
them, and it's an interesting flavor that is sometimes
perceived, some of the remote viewers don't perceive much of
a change in Adam and Eve when they were back here on Earth long
ago and where they are now, and they have a different genetic
mix, much more transparent across the sub-space divide.
So they
knew from the get-go that they were composite beings, two things
put together, physical and sub-space, and even when I did
the remote viewing on them I sort of said, boy someone needs to
put a burr under their saddle, they've not done much in all
these thousands of years, so that's what the advantages of being
a human is, by cutting yourself off from the past for these
short years, you put yourself through the juggernaut of trying
to evolve quickly and when you're done, you know I must say that
we have found out, this was done, not only through remote
viewing studies but also at the Monroe Institute in Faber
Virginia, it's an institute developed by Robert Monroe, --
ART BELL
I was honored to interview Robert Monroe before he died.
DR BROWN
He's a great being, and when at the Monroe institute
they had found out, using different technologies but --
technology that has also been extensively used by the U.S.
military -- that when people graduate from the human school,
from the human experience, when they go on, and they finally(?)
had enough, they are extremely well respected out there, basically it's one of these situations, you find someone that no
longer comes back into human form, no longer needs to
experience, goes on and does other, bigger better things.
I mean
infinity is a long time to be around, so they have to keep on
doing things, but when other beings interact with someone who's
graduated from the human experience, the word has it that
they're incredibly impressed, but -- it's sort of like you bump
into them and say
"Wow, you're a very impressive person, where'd
you come from?" and the person would say "Well, I'm just so&so,
but I, I used to be human, but I don't do that anymore" and
the other person would say, "A human! you mean, you, you
graduated from the human [?], you mean you basically became self
realized while you were human, you became, you became aware of
who you were inside the human limited form?"
And the person
would say, "Yeah, that's what I did," and then the other person
would say, "Well now wait a sec, this is like amazing, like,
start in the beginning, we have to know everything like how'd
you do this, so like, you were born? alright, so like, then what
happened? -- "
[lack of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
ART BELL
...like a monkey can suddenly talk --
DR BROWN
Yeah, it's a, it's a very, an impressive thing when someone
graduates from the human experience, that's what we've, that's
what Bob Monroe and their Institute found out extensively --
[lack of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
ART BELL
...a fairly rare occurrence? {Brown: Pardon me?} Fairly rare
occurrence?
DR BROWN
It doesn't happen as much as it will happen in the future,
because when you are in such a limited physical body, that is so
cut off from who you were, who you are, it really is tough
to fight through it, and a lot of specialized procedures are
often used to accelerate that process, remote viewing is one of
them, the Monroe Institute offers a variety of others, and
in my book, Cosmic Voyage, I actually offer, I also talk about other procedures, meditation procedures that are very
compatible in a mechanical sense, non-belief-oriented sense,
such as TM, the TM Siddhis program, which are oriented around
literally just the concept of self realization.
Understand self
realization is simply one thing, it's a very simple thing. It
something that a person while in physical form became
experientially aware of their other side, the soul, the
sub-space side, as much as they're aware of their hands and
their feet -- [lack of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
ART BELL
...it's like you're talking about a sort of a cosmic speed
course --
DR BROWN
That's what the human experience basically is.
ART BELL
Yes indeed, but in terms of rising beyond or even
approaching graduation, you're speeding these souls, these,
toward that toward that end, and have you ever been
concerned that you are indulging in unnatural, process?
DR BROWN
No, we're learning, and it's not unnatural at all because we're
not doing anything that's unnatural, other than learning in the
remote viewing sense, to shift the awareness to something that
is already there, something that has already been there since
the beginning of time, it's just a flavor of information, a
sense of data that is coming across, that is mostly ignored
except in those intuitive moments.
For example: if a woman, with
children, any mother will tell you that if something's wrong
with her kids, I mean seriously wrong with one of her children,
she'll know it {Bell: She'll know it. Yes.}, she'll have
no ambiguity something's wrong, or something's wrong with a
person's spouse, the other person often knows deep in their
heart something's going on, and what that is is the sub-space
side of life, the, the, the soul, the sub-space being, that
aspect, is picking up remote viewing in a sense, and in a very
crude way, bludgeoning through all the electrochemical apparatus
that's genetically, that's genetically programmed,
bludgeoning through that awareness, into the physical
electrochemical brain, so that it comes through finally that's
something's wrong, and we pick it up as an intuition.
What
remote viewing is,
Scientific Remote Viewing, the version that
we use here at the Farsight Institute, is a way of writing down
those intuitions in a scientifically controlled fashion -- [lack
of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
ART BELL
Discipline? Discipline would be a word wouldn't it, for that? In
other words, a disciplined intuition.
DR BROWN
That's a good way of writing, that's a good way of talking about
it, you might also add to it a, a discipline with a
involved set of mechanical features. So it's not that you simply
have to be disciplined like an Army Sergeant, but you're
following a set of procedures.
We know how the -- we've got the
bugs worked out of these procedures, in fact, the procedures
that we now use at the Farsight Institute, Scientific Remote
Viewing, are much more evolved than the early military, version -- everything changes as it proceeds, and I'm a
scientist, more than anything else, which means --
ART BELL
Right. Well the only thing I was concerned about with
understanding of the nature of the soul, is that in essence
you're taking, say a 12 year old prodigy and graduating that
12 year old from college and thrusting that 12 year old out into
the world from a soul point of view sort of, and, and that some of your subjects are missing what they should have gone
through, now think about that for a moment, we'll break here at
the top of the hour, relax, we'll be right back, this is radio,
we've got lots of time, Doctor Courtney Brown, Professor Brown,
my guest, we'll be right back...
[BREAK]
ART BELL
Good evening. Actually good morning for most of you across the
nation, evening for Alaska and Hawaii yet. My guest is Professor
Courtney Brown from Emory University, he leads a team of remote
viewers. Remote viewing is a mental procedure that enables a
person to extract accurate, descriptive information from distant
locations.
Remote viewing also works across time, in the sense
that a remote viewer can extract information from the past,
present or future. Scientific Remote Viewing refers to a set of
protocols that are a modernized version of a technique developed
and used by the U.S. Military in the 1980's and 90's for
espionage. These protocols allow any normal, well balanced
individual to remote view with tremendous precision.
Scientific
studies using multiple remote viewers employing these protocols
can yield results that approach one hundred percent accuracy,
consistently. Scientific remote viewing has several distinct
stages. Each one brings the remote viewer into closer contact
with a target. A target is the location, person, or event about
which information is desired. In each stage, different types of
information are extracted about the target, and the overall
result is typically a complete set of descriptive information,
including sketches.
In a moment, Professor Brown once again.
[BREAK]
ART BELL
Alright back now to Professor Brown, who happens to be in
the city now opening the Olympics, Atlanta, Doctor Brown
you're back on the air. We talked about remote viewing, the
nature of the soul, and the last question I recall asking
is, are you certain that you are not, in effect, taking people
who are supposed to go through more of these "limited life
experiences" and graduating them early...
DR BROWN
Well that's an extraordinarily important question. Two parts to
the answer, both short. First of all, we are aware
now that most people don't have a few life experiences but many,
many lifetimes, or life experiences, and school is not bad,
we all go to school, we shouldn't be superstitious about
learning, opening one's eyes does not hurt us, but with that in
mind, let me say that, I'm going going to say now something that is
my opinion.
All things of course that I'm saying are something
that is my opinion but in this particular thing I want to
emphasize that this is my opinion and that the military remote
viewers, as much as I love them all, they're, they've all
had their moments of genius and their contribution to this
entire field, every single one of them has been great, but in my
opinion, the military remote viewers were not well served by the
exact method of training and procedures that they went through,
because they learned remote viewing in the absence of a broader
course in the growth in consciousness, it started be - out as a
parlor trick, it ended up as an espionage tool, but, you know
before -- you know.
In my years of exposure to these people, I
have yet to find one that spoke to me in terms of them
understanding what they were actually doing when they were
remote viewing, that they were using their soul to extract the
data - they, at least in conversations with me never put the two
together and made an understanding that this has a soul, or a
sub-space aspect connection, it was always a 'strange new power'
--
ART BELL
That actually makes sense, and I would expect that's the way the
military would approach it, they wouldn't want to get into or
even care about, and probably would shy away from, any
discussion of what might seem to be of, a religious nature
--
DR BROWN
Yes, but the result is, you know, we strip away religion from
this discussion and just say, "If it could happen, it's in the
realm of science," and what we have to say is, in my personal
view that some of the military people were - - well, were,
were affected in a, in, in a way that was not always the
best, which is regard to the perception was, that I can do this
now, it's an ability, I'm different from, better than, capable
of doing something other people can't, and then, you know,
the normal process of competition within them, egos growing
and things like that, this is not, a fault of a personality
but, the process itself was not well explained to them, and it's
partly the result simply of the fact that we were new and
learning the procedures and understanding the ability in the
beginning and these things were, were normal.
But, as a
consequence of my, of my personal interactions with these people
that - I have restructured the training program completely at
the Farsight Institute, not only have we modernized the actual
Remote Viewing procedures, but we also imbed the training with lectures, discussions, presentations for example, with
regard to other approaches to consciousness, so that we
encourage people not just to learn how to remote view, with
great accuracy.
But to also pursue growth in consciousness that
leads them in the direction of healthy self realization, in that
regards, we have a very close and supportive relationship with
the Monroe institute in Faber? Virginia, they use a different
type of technology that is oriented toward self realization, and
we also support the use of TM, Transcendental Meditation, and
the TM Siddhis program, the advanced version of that, which is a
mechanical approach we've found it to be very compatible with Scientific Remote Viewing --
ART BELL
If I may, let me stop you -- before we get away from the
military aspect {Brown: Right.}, I know that you don't want
to discuss other people, and I don't think we need to, but I did
interview
Major Ed Dames, who was involved in the military
program, and is now out, has formed a company called
Psi-Tech,
and what he said to me was very interesting, he said, when
we were doing the military remote viewing, we were concentrating
on very specific espionage- related military targets, it was
very, very disciplined, and, but a funny thing happened along
the way: we began to see some other things.
For example, he
said, we saw looking into the future, we saw babies dying. Now,
we didn't pay attention to it, we, it was seen, it was
noted, and it was dismissed because it was not of interest to
the military, and then he expanded on that after he left the
military, and he has since gone back and done more work in
that area, but would you expect that would be true, that a lot
of the military people saw things that they simply dismissed,
they simply, erased, as part of the discipline {Brown: Mhmmn.},
to get the target they were after, yes?
DR BROWN
Yeah - Well actually, the story that you just said is, is
very interesting, and it literally every single one of
the military remote viewers has their special mark in
history with regard to this whole thing, and, and the story that
you just said is very interesting, because, that is exactly what
occurred, many things were happening in the sessions when they
were doing it, and things were being observed, that they didn't
know how to - how to place - for example, they would for example
be trying to locate [?], a terrorist, or they would be going
after, the location of Mohamar Khadafi, or they would be
trying to do some type of operational, thing with regard to
Desert Storm, and in the process of doing all of this stuff,
some of the remote viewers, many of the remote viewers, most
perhaps -- and -- although I do not, uh.
I myself was not in
the unit, I was not in the military, so, I didn't
have personal contact with every one of them, but perhaps all of
the remote viewers, did notice things sort of over their
sub-space shoulder, over their remote viewing shoulder, light
beings, other things happening, things that were happening
on the sub-space side of life, and in fact, they were not
capable of dealing with that information, so they dismissed it
--
ART BELL
The military, the military didn't "want" them to deal with it --
DR BROWN
They didn't want them -- they didn't know "how" to deal with it,
it -- remote viewing itself didn't fit into the normal accepted
paradigms, and certainly the stuff that they were getting
didn't fit into the normal accepted paradigms, and one of the
things that has happened with Scientific Remote Viewing, is that
we have changed, at the Farsight Institute we have changed some
of the procedures, most of the language, making it more easy to
teach, making it simpler, but in the same sense we've expanded
the procedures, and, we've expanded the types of information
that we get so we explicitly in our sessions now have places
for, and recording.
We explicitly have procedures for recording
the things that were dismissed by the early remote viewers, all
of the sub- space activity for example, we have explicit places
for that information to be recorded, we don't dismiss it any
more, I might say just as a vignette on that interesting topic
that you raised, is that there was a -- I, I don't really want
to talk about personalities, but there's one personality I
will mention.
There was a brilliant general, two star major
general,
Albert Stubblebine, who was in
charge of the area under which the remote viewing unit was assigned {Bell:
Okay.} in INSCOM, and the, the problem with General
Stubblebine from a job perspective, was that he was doing his
job, perhaps a little bit too well --
ART BELL
Meaning what?
DR BROWN
I have been in -- pardon me? Well in the sense that he ran into
a lot of problems within the military when his remote viewing
teams began to come up with data, results, and he as the good
General started to report it, and some of the data dealt with
some of this information that was being discarded, that was
being not used, no place for it, not within the right
paradigm, and some of the military higher-ups.
Looked at
General Stubblebine with not, not complete favor, and he ran
into some, some professional problems, really due to no fault of
himself, the information he was carrying was a little bit
too different for a lot of those people, and so, you know,
within any institution there are types of information that are
accepted within that institution, that's not just the military
but any institution, and some of the remote viewing data
absolutely stretched the military's levels to it's very edges --
ART BELL
I bet it did -- I mean, if you were trying to figure out where
Saddham Hussein was, and you had a team concentrating on that,
and somebody came and talked to you about Adam & Eve --
DR BROWN
-- yeah, or while you were remote viewing Saddham Hussein you
saw a light being over your shoulder, they'd think you were
nuts.
ART BELL
That's right.
DR BROWN
But the reality is, life is more complicated than we
thought, with our simple, narrow, limited three dimensional plus
one 1 time expectations.
ART BELL
Believe me, military careers can slow to a crawl over things
like that.
DR BROWN
Yeah, and, and General Stubblebine was one of those people who
took a little bit of flak, and there was, you know, all of these
people, every one of them, had their great moments in the
history of this development.
ART BELL
well that would be true, and probably suffered greatly for
it, like most founding groups or fathers.
DR BROWN
Well stated.
ART BELL
so now you've got a private organization -- Farsight
Institute is private, is it?
DR BROWN
Right, what we, what I did was, I had, when I wrote Cosmic
Voyage, a Scientific Discovery of Extraterrestrials Visiting
Earth, that's, that's under the [?] label, it's a Penguin Book, when I wrote that, I was originally going to treat this
just as any other book, the only difference between my use of
Remote Viewing and the military's was that instead of looking
for terrorists or bombing targets or whatever, I used those same
procedures, but aimed them up, towards the extraterrestrials,
the ETs, the UFO phenomenon, the enigma, and I focused just
basically on that.
But, when I did it, I had the expectation, as
controversial this book would be, and I knew it, I had the
expectation I had to walk away from it, start my next book,
right after that, just like all academics do, we write one book,
we finish it, we go onto our next project. But at the very last
stages of, right before the book went into production, it
had gone through all of its editorial stuff, it had gone through
everything, I had a conference call with, my editor, and the lawyers, the best legal minds available in New York on
literary matters {Bell: I'll bet.} and they're the lawyers
of Penguin, and there's the conference call.
And they said,
"Doctor Brown, we have one last thing: you have described to us
your procedure, what you went through to get training from some
of these military guys. Well, there aren't many of them out
there, and you know, what you had to go through, was
something that may be difficult for a lot of people, to go
through,"
...in terms of finding them and getting things going at
least at the time, that I was doing this, it was very difficult
for me to get the training, but I finally got it, and, and
they said, "and the people that are available for training don't
do it the way you would suggest it to be done," now, the whole
thing about Science is replicability, that's the fundamental
characteristic of science, is you've got something going on the
laboratory, you've got to be able to replicate it --
ART BELL
Absolutely.
DR BROWN
-- under the exact type of conditions. So they say,
"Doctor
Brown, we need an institute, there's got to be an institute
for doing this stuff the way you think it should be done, that's the whole clai], I mean, we're going to put ourselves, this
is a major press, Penguin, we're going to put ourselves on the line
and push this book, and don't you think we need an
institute?"
...and that was the lawyers saying this, and then I
said, "Well an institute, but I don't have an institute {Bell:
laughs}, I just do my research and I go onto my next book," and
then there was this, long, pregnant pause, and my editor
chimes in and says, "Boy we'd sure like to sign off on this book
today, Dr. Brown," and I said, "Oh. Is that it?"
So the
implication was that if I didn't [?] an institute [?...] there'd
be -- so I basically just squeaked out, "Ok, I'll do it," but,
you know, I realized what that would mean, that would mean
hiring secretaries, I'm just talking about organization -- but I
did it, and I'm glad it actually happened that way, so we
now have an institute, a regular, full-fledged academic
institute where we teach people, anyone who is interested, from
scientists to reporters to just plain interested people, how
to do the most modernized form of the originally military
derived, remote viewing protocols, and we have regular
classes, we've had a variety of classes.
We've trained so far 31
remote viewers, and I must say, that 28 of these remote viewers
have given us written permission to post their results up, or
parts of their results up, the results that are understandable and can be presented easily on the Internet, to post these results up on the Internet, and, to date I've
got, we've got 11 results, partial results, posted up on
the Internet, so people that go to your web page, and then snap
over to the Farsight Institute web page, you might -- you
mentioned my web page -- people that go over to my web page,
they can go to a section called the Student's Corner, and they
can see 11 results, and all done under totally blind conditions,
which is what we use at the Farsight Institute.
Art - I
hope you ask me one time what that actually means, 'cause that's
very important, your viewers are going to want to know, what does
this, how do we know this really works, to know that you have to
know what blind conditions is all about --
ART BELL
Doctor, you have Viewers, I have listeners.
DR BROWN
Okay. {Bell: laughs} I'll, I'll do it then. What blind
conditions is, that the Farsight Institute only uses blind
conditions. Now what that means is, now get this: we have a
target that we want to send someone to, to perceive, to
accurately describe in minute detail, say, the great wall of
China, or the Eiffel tower, or the assassination of J.F.
Kennedy, anything that you can think of, we can go to. And we
have, that target, but we don't want to tell the viewer what
the target is.
ART BELL
You don't?
DR BROWN
No. Because then the viewer's mind, the conscious mind, is going
to
be all activated and everything in memory is going to start
flooding out, and they'll start saying, oh, I remember what this
is, and so, it'll be more difficult for the remote viewer. So
what we want to do is to give them the identification of the
target without telling them what the target is. So what we use
is two four-digit random numbers. The reason is, these numbers
come from a random number table, or from a computer program that
we use --
ART BELL
Alright doctor, we must, this is network, and we must break
here --
DR BROWN
I'll describe it right after the break.
ART BELL
That's good -- stay right there. Professor Courtney Brown,
author of Cosmic Voyage, is my guest, Remote Viewing the topic,
we'll be right back.
[BREAK]
ART BELL
My guest is Doctor Courtney Brown, a tenured PhD professor at
Emory University. He runs the Farsight Institute, a group of
remote viewers. It is a fascinating topic. And we're going to get
back to it in just a moment.
[BREAK]
ART BELL
All right, now back to Professor Brown. Professor, if you had
not been a tenured PhD, at Emory, after
Cosmic Voyage
was published, would they have blown you out of there like a bad
dream?
DR BROWN
Well that possibly could have happened, but you know, to
give a good story about this,
John Mack, a tenured professor of
Psychiatry at Harvard, Pulitzer Prize winning author, founder of
the department of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, when he
came out a couple years back, year and a half ago actually,
about two years back, with his book "Abduction,"
which was about the basically one species of G- of ETs
called Greys...
Fascinating book, when he came out with that, Harvard went through an academic inquisition no less, and that's
unheard of these times, where basically they dragged him through
approximately forty closed-door hearings, lawyers-only type
things, where they were trying basically no-holds-barred to
get him removed {Bell: Right.}, now --
ART BELL
M-Hmmn. Actually it was a very close call.
DR BROWN
It was a very close call, and after a year and a half of closed door meetings and really, nip and tuck as far as John
Mack was concerned, Pulitzer Prize winning author or not, he
almost lost his job, and what finally happened after a year and
a half, the dean finally put closure on it, and said ah, I guess
this is an academic freedom issue, and, you know just
closed the -- closed the door on it, said this is it, let's not
hear any more about this, John Mack can do whatever he wants,
but by doing that, John Mack actually set out a principle for
all universities {Bell: Ah.}, because by doing that, he forced
Harvard to make a statement saying that people studying these
high, advanced level subjects of consciousness and
extraterrestrials, ETS, UFOs, that this is legitimate within the
range of scientific inquiry.
By forcing Harvard to do it, he
saved the careers of an awful lot of other scientists,
because no other university's going to do something that, that Harvard finally at long last decided not to do. Now understand
Harvard is, is not known for its innovation. Harvard basically
hires people that are, that have done their creative work and you know, they are, really, often their creative work
has been done elsewhere, and then Harvard hires them, you know,
after they become you know very big --
ART BELL
Very conservative.
DR BROWN
And in that sense Harvard is very conservative, not the, the
bastion of innovation and creativity as much as they are the
defense of the orthodoxy, and they have a prestige to defend,
and you know the harder, the higher they come, the taller, the
harder they fall, [inaudible] --
ART BELL
What about Emory? Have you run into any --
DR BROWN
I've run into no problems with Emory, I don't know how much of
it is because of Emory's long standing commitment to academic
freedom, which really is there, or, and how much of it is due to
the fact that my book came out after, right after John Mack
forced Harvard to make that decision [inaudible] --
ART BELL
Alright, let us return now to remote viewing. You were telling
us that in order to insure that there's not a lot of false
information flying about in the brains of these viewers,
they are assigned targets by numbers. Now I can't understand
that, how would a series so -- so make me understand --
DR BROWN
OK that's fine. So this is what's called blind conditions. What
we have is, we have a target, the Great Wall of China, the
Eiffel Tower, the assassination of JFK, [?] whatever, and that's
our target, that's what we want to get information about. Now we
don't tell the remote viewer that this is what the target is.
What we do is, we say well let's go to the computer program or
to a table of random numbers and get two four-digit random
numbers.
Why two four-digit?
Well it goes back to the old
military days, it's a tradition, where they thought coordinates
were needed, geographical coordinates, latitude and longitude,
so that's a leftover from those days when we have two four-digit
random numbers, but they're totally random, they mean nothing to
the conscious mind.
And on a piece of paper, right next to
whatever the target may be, say you know, Nagasaki
destruction event, we put down those two four-digit random
numbers. Now. We then go over to the remote viewer, and we say,
here is the target, and we tell the remote viewer those two
four-digit random numbers, say, 7275-5131.
ART BELL
There is your target --
DR BROWN
And the remote viewer writes those two four-digit random numbers
down. Now. That's "all" the remote viewer is given about the
target. Now. The physical conscious mind, the electrochemical
brain has no way of knowing what those numbers mean {Bell: For
sure.}, that, that, that they mean the destruction of Nagasaki
or Martians, [?] {Bell: I understand.}, ETs, Greys, President
Clinton in the Oval office, [?] St. Louis, whatever it may be --
has no knowledge of what those numbers mean.
But: the sub-space
component of the remote viewer, you might call it the
soul, or some people call it the unconscious, we have found that
the vast other part of ourselves, the essential being of
ourselves, has instant awareness of all things, including what
those numbers represent. And what we do is we send the remote
viewer through this set of procedures, mechanical procedures, on
those numbers, beginning with those numbers, and the information
that comes across through the soul, through the sub-space
aspect, projected onto the brain, dimmer, foggier, fuzzier.
But nonetheless the remote, the remote viewers are trained to
recognize it and to write it down, that information is written
down, and what we do at the end of the end of the session is we
have a complete description of what that target is, and the
remote viewer was never told what the target was, and then at
the end of the session after all the information is down on the
piece of paper, in indelible ink, can't be erased, after all the
information is down we then, the remote viewer says "whew!
That's over. What was that?" and we tell them, that was --
ART BELL
OK now let's get to the scientific repeatability aspect of it:
can you take Remote Viewer A, and assign them, Target A in,
in one room, and Remote Viewer B, C, D and E, in separate
rooms, and assigning them the same target, and establish roughly
the same report?
DR BROWN
That's exactly what we do! Except, we don't do it with two. At
the Farsight Institute we typically do it with eight students at
a time, all separated, so they can't see each other working,
they're all separated physically with barriers, but the point
is, we teach them the procedures, and then we give a target, and
then all eight work on the target {Bell: Right.} in silence, all
separated, they can't see each other, and then at the end of the
session, when we say put your pen down, put your pens down.
We
then collect everybody's session up, and then one at a time we
put them on the table and everybody looks at everybody else's
session. You can often hear a pin drop when they look and they
say -- you know, you can always discard your own work, they say
- you say, ah I must have done that by chance, how could I have
done that, but when you see eight other people in the same room
coming up with the same information, it's just awe inspiring.
ART BELL
Alright, give me the numbers with regard to your research
so far, what percentage of accuracy can you reputably
demonstrate?
DR BROWN
Well, it varies as you get better at it, so when you
first start it, but, but, I should say this, to start with, we
have not had a single person in our institute, of 32 that have
come through, that have not been able to learn it, and have not
been able to do it, every single one has -- can do it. We know
how to work this now, we've got all the bugs worked out of this.
Secondly, information at the end of training is as good as the
military people "ever" were.
But: the requirement is that the
people at the end of training have a professional monitor,
someone to remind them of which procedure comes next, there to
make sure that no mistakes are made. After the initial week,
intensive training that we give, we have another course, called
Farsight Seer, which is the professionalization course,
where even that limitation is removed because they become
monitors themselves, they become, they become experts, they
become professionals, and then we even have a teacher training
course, and we're actively teaching.
We're actively developing a
large teach -- group of teachers -- so the point is that a
professional, someone who's gone through the introductory course
as well as the professionalization course {Bell: Yes.}, those
people -- and if we do, everything that we suggest especially,
and don't do anything wrong, we do not have a "single"
unexplained missing of the target. In the sense that, as long as
nothing was physically done wrong, like a blunder as might be
done in say the introductory parts of training, as long as
there's no physical blunder, no gross mistakes, in the
execution of procedures, which is very rare among
professionals, we don't have a single case of anyone completely
missing the target. We know how this thing works.
ART BELL
So you're saying repeatable --
DR BROWN
Replicability is the bottom line.
ART BELL
A hundred percent of the time?
DR BROWN
Well, what we're saying is the following: like when you ride a
bicycle, you fall down in the beginning. So do you say, well is
the bicycle going to be stable 100% of the time, well in the
beginning, you fall down, but you know, look at the Olympic
bicyclists, it's a very rare damned -- it's a very rare moon
whenever they fall down off a bicycle, you know they're good at
it -- so the point is, when people do everything that we say
[?], that, that we tell them to do -- you know it may be in the
future that we'll find out that you know, certain percentages of
the targets don't work very well, but the reality is, when
people become professional using this stuff, we - and they don't
make - and there's no gross mistakes being made in the
procedures - we don't have a single case yet where people
have completely gone off target. {Bell: That's quite a claim.}
So we really understand this, and, I must say that I am a
scientist, and all science evolves, so that what we know now is
an improvement over what was going on in the original military
program, and what will go on in ten years and in twenty years
will be an improvement on what we do now. So, science is
constantly evolving.
There is no original perfect set of
procedures that [good?] for the rest of time, everything
evolves, and that's why we look at the - at the Farsight
Institute as a real academic institute where research is going
on, where we constantly innovate and do things -- by the way I
should also mention, that we have a medical course that we
anticipate to offer in the beginning of 1997, and the
procedures are being used, very accurately and productively in
hospital settings today.
And you know, you never do it if
somebody has broken a leg, if it's a broken leg you just fix it
--
ART BELL
Diagnostics?
DR BROWN
But, but for very complicated diagnostics where you don't have
the foggiest reasons, idea of what to do next, doctors can use
it, and actually come up with very, very important information
about what's wrong with people.
ART BELL
Really remarkable, alright, let me take you in a sort of a side
direction for just one moment. {Brown: OK, sure.} Having
established what you can do scientifically, and I think you have
established that, let me ask you about ethics a little bit.
If I were not an ethical person, and I came to you and I
came, and I went through your course, and I went all the way
through your course and became "very" good at what I do, could I
not, with my talents, attain great power, great riches,
great everything -- in other words use this, ability, for
personal gain -- must I be ethical with it, or is the very
process itself driven to do, to an ethical boundary, or
stays within an ethical boundary, you see what I'm trying to
ask, I'm sure --
DR BROWN
The point is that we truly live in a free will universe,
and the remote viewing procedures are mechanical, they are not
belief oriented, so anything is possible, including what you
just suggested -- with that said, however, I want to state that
at the Farsight Institute we take particular efforts, very great
efforts to explain remote viewing in the realm of larger growth
of consciousness.
For example, we now know that it is literally
the sub-space component of all of us, the sub-space side of us,
of our composite nature, two things put together, our soul, that
actually does the perception. And if you look back at it, what
did the military use it for? -- now this is not a criticism,
this is just, this was their business and they had to do it this
way, but what did they do it for --
ART BELL
Wait doctor, the same sort of thing that I'm going to ask you about
right now, bringing you back down to ground level. I go through
your course. I go to work for some microchip company. {Brown:
Right.} I say look guys, how would you like to have the latest
research, two or three years ahead of what you're doing, going
on in Tokyo right now -- I can give it to you, I can give it to
you, $500,000, a million dollars, whatever it is, I can give you
this technology.
DR BROWN
That's already going on.
There is a, a remote viewer that a military remote viewer,
Joe McMoneagle, who's out at
the -- who can be -- he often shows up in classes at the Monroe
Institute in Faber Virginia -- he's a natural psychic, he's
not trained, he's a natural psychic and he has an accuracy rate
of about 80% -- but he works for contract for private
companies all the time, and there are a significant
number of patents out there where people hire him, and some
other remote viewers, for technology transfer, but most of all
from off planet and from the future.
And patents are, people
are making money on patents with regard to this stuff -- there's
another professor, such as myself, but this is a full professor
at a very prestigious, one of the most prestigious
engineering universities, colleges in the country, that is getting patent after patent after patent using a remote viewer,
and he has actually tried to show some of his colleagues how
they're getting the information.
But the colleagues just don't want
to listen, they just say, just take your patent, I don't
want to know how you get it, but you know, the point is that, he
with the remote viewer has found, has, has found an ET, an
ET library, believe it or not, a library, and they're --
works on the level of consciousness and they're just tapping
into it -- [lack of clarity as Brown and Bell both talk]...
ART BELL
...again, the ethics, now, if I go to a company and I say, look
guys, I can steal the latest for you, the key word there is
steal, theft, it is theft, if you're able to remote view
somebody else's technology then assume it for your own, that,
Doctor, is theft.
DR BROWN
Yeah -- well you understand that this level of secrecy that
you're talking about being broken only exists within the
limitations of our genetic makeup. Once you break that, there
are no secrets anymore. I'll give you an example --
ART BELL
At that plane, yes, but here on earth Doctor, that is theft.
DR BROWN
No, on earth now, we've broken it now, on earth, in the physical
level, we're no longer limited by this anymore, we can remote
view anything. So all those secrets are no longer secrets --
ART BELL
No more secrets.
DR BROWN
Let me give you an example. In my book, Cosmic Voyage, there's a
chapter, I was monitored by a former retired high ranking member
of the military during the entire process of writing this
book, of doing the research, and this monitor sent me, under
completely blind conditions, into the white house, into the oval
office --
ART BELL
Oh really...?!
DR BROWN
And I described that session. And it took 25 minutes for me to
go through the procedures, and finally I said to the monitor,
I'm sorry, but the only thing I'm getting is that I'm in a
room, it's round, and I'm standing in front of the president,
President Clinton is here, what am I supposed to do now? And at
that point the monitor ended the session, as that indeed
was the target, and he told me afterwards that's the target,
that's end of session, took 25 minutes, and then the monitor
says, yeah we could have done some interesting things, I could
have sent you into the mind of the president, but you know,
being former military types we still have some respect for the
commander in chief {laughs}.
But the reality is, he could have
sent me right into the mind of the president to extract any
information that was necessary.
ART BELL
Seems to me Doctor, if you can really do that, you could be
killed for that.
DR BROWN
Well, no, it's not because of me you see, we're teaching people
how to do this now -- [lack of clarity as Brown and Bell both
talk]...
ART BELL
You could be killed for that.
DR BROWN
Well I have a respect for our president as well, so I don't do
things like that.
ART BELL
But maybe not all your students will.
DR BROWN
Well actually, to be quite honest, we do teach them how to enter
the minds of people in training, that's part of the training
process, it's {Bell: Really.} called a deep mind probe, and I
just had a student the other day --
ART BELL
No fourth amendment problems here eh?
DR BROWN
Well, we have to understand science is changing and, and, you
know you could have said, in the old days, you could have
said, well when technology changes does the rest of the world
has to stop, but we now know that when technology changes, and
remote viewing is a technology now, our physical realm has
to adapt, and --
ART BELL
Alright now, hold it there, we're going to break, and we need one
after all that, we'll be right back, Doctor Courtney Brown is my
guest, don't move...
[BREAK]
ART BELL
My guest is Professor Courtney Brown. He is a tenured PhD
professor at Emory University. He has written a book called...
isn't that terrible? {laughs} It's cosmic -- is it Cosmic
Journey? Cosmic Voyage? It is... a Cosmic trip, that's for sure.
And what we have done, in the last in the last two hours, is
to establish the scientific validity of remote viewing, the
ability to look, at a distant geographic location, the
ability to look at a distant person or object, the ability to
enter their mind, the ability to read into the future -- see,
literally, into the future or the past -- and without without going through all of the discussion of the past two
hours I will tell you, if you have been listening, you should
be, by now convinced, of the scientific reality and
viability of remote viewing.
We have not yet talked about some
of the targets that Doctor Brown has viewed. That part
is coming up. I could not have done that, ladies and gentlemen,
in my view, without having established the base, the
scientific repeatable base of proof for the existence of
remote viewing. Having done that, and I think, having done that,
we will indeed begin to ask about specific targets shortly.
[BREAK]
ART BELL
Doctor Courtney told us that under scientific conditions it is
possible to take eight trained remote viewers -- I said eight,
in separate rooms, assigning them a target, not one that they
know of, but a number that relates to a target, or more
specifically actually does not, and the eight remote viewers
will go to their target, report the information, then
these eight will be gathered together, the notes, the
information on the target will be identical, it can be done with
trained pros to the point where it is or can achieve near 100%
accuracy.
That's scientific, it's repeatable, and I guess it's
real, and it's kind of, it's kind of frightening, isn't it
doctor, for the uninitiated --
DR BROWN
Well, for the uninitiated, it could be a little bit new,
and all new things are a little bit surprising, but I
want to say just to help clarify something, that the results
necessarily are not, are not necessarily identical across remote
viewers, and that is because the personality of each remote
viewer is involved in what they particularly go for.
ART BELL
But isn't the goal to suppress as much of that, --
DR BROWN
That's right, but let me explain: Every remote viewer goes to
the site and gets aspects of the site that are clearly, clearly,
unambiguously related to that site. But not every remote viewer
goes to the same aspects of the site.
For example, if you're to target
the blowing up of the 747 that happened couple
days ago, then, and you're to send eight remote viewers there
and figure it out, what's going on, you may write the target
in such a way that all eight remote viewers, they'll all get an
explosion, they'll all get people dying, lives, people falling
out of the sky, they'll all get a jetliner blowing up or
something like that, some aerial explosion, but some of them
may, if this thing was a missile for example that blew it up, some of them may give you much more detail about the missile
whereas others won't even have any detail about the missile.
If it was a bomb inside the airliner, some of the remote viewers
might actually pick up how the bomb was actually placed in
the, in the jetliner, where as other remote viewers wouldn't,
wouldn't have gotten that particular information. {Bell:
Alright, so that's clear.}
So, the personality of each remote
viewer gets different aspects (Bell: That's clear.), so that
it's not that we're all carbon copies, also when we do things at
the Farsight Institute, we sometimes put people in separate
rooms, but other, but we also have training where all eight
people are in the same room, but it's a very large room and
they're all separated by barriers, so they can't see each other,
so but nonetheless your description is correct in the sense
that right after that they are separated from each other, and
right after that they come together and review everybody's
work. It's really quite a moving experience for everyone when
they first start seeing that.
ART BELL
I brought up the subject of the effects of it, and somebody sent
me a fax here that says, "Knowledge can't be owned. It's not
theft. It's merely the universal database and access to it."
DR BROWN
In fact, getting into some of our targets, ET related
targets, we have to understand that the big difference between
us humans and advanced ETs is, as a rule, technologically as
well as experientially, they are self- realized, the ETs, they
have complete understanding of the composite physical and
[inaudible] --
ART BELL
Are you sure they are --
DR BROWN
They have no secrets.
ART BELL
Are you sure they are -- well there are no, in your world there
are, there are no secrets in it, there are no longer any
secrets, that's a frightening prospect. Are you sure they
are ETs? I know many have seen beings of light. Different
beings, how can you be sure these are really
extraterrestrials in the very purest form of the meaning, they
are living on or have been on other planets in other systems?
DR BROWN
Good question. Art, there's no ambiguity about this.
With the
exact same procedures that are used to put men and women's lives
at stake on the battlefield -- and the military had a minimum
eighty-five percent accuracy, eighty-five percent of the time --
that was better by the way than some of their normal spy stuff,
because you know, when you get physical spies out there, a lot of
the physical spies are given disinformation {Bell: Yes.}, not
everything you get is correct, so the remote viewing data was
very competitive, often superior, than the information they got
from their regular ordinary spies.
So, with that same level of
accuracy, and above, we've used this same procedures to
target the extraterrestrials, and one thing I want to tell you
and you do not have to believe me, science is not a matter of
belief, it's a matter of replicability under controlled
scientific laboratory conditions, and, we do not have just me as
a remote viewer doing this.
Besides the military folks, the
former military folks, we have thirty one, thirty two remote
viewers, thirty two remote viewers at the Farsight Institute who
have become very proficient at getting
information from physical targets that are just normal, Eiffel
Tower, whatever, using the same procedures on ET related
targets, and getting very, very accurate results in the sense of
compatibility.
Meaning, if someone goes to Mars and is supposed
to be looking at something life-oriented around Mars or on Mars,
you get all the same people describing the same thing, using
the exact same procedures. Now if the procedures didn't work,
we'd have no business committing men and women's lives on the
fields for this. {Bell: That's right.} the procedures do
work -- [inaudible]
ART BELL
OK here's a hard question, a hard question for you, on the
subject: it is my understanding that the military is now, or
claims, that they have ended their remote viewing project,
correct?
DR BROWN
That is correct.
ART BELL
If it's so damn effective, then why have they done that? If it's
better than human assets on the ground in many cases, with
regard to intelligence matters, why in the world would they end
the project? Or is the answer, they really have just ended the
public, knowledge --
DR BROWN
That last part is [inaudible] -- there is, there is still an
operational capability within the military. There are people
still in uniform who are remote viewers, and one in fact that is
a very high ranking military officer. With that said, I must say
that there are three different reasons for the, for the
elimination of the actual unit.
ART BELL
Let's hear them.
DR BROWN
The first is, that the Generals themselves have their own
traditional belief systems that the remote viewing stuff really
goes right against. They're like anybody else.
ART BELL
Religious... ?
DR BROWN
All types of traditional belief systems {Bell: Alright. I can
buy that.} religious and stuff like that, and when you start
bringing in remote viewing stuff, you start challenging
basically "all" belief systems, because you're bringing in
vastly new information. {Bell: OK. I can buy that.} And so some
of the Generals have a difficult time with that.
The second
reason for it is that politically, remote viewing is not easy to
do, to accept on the political popularity reasons.
What is the problem is that the American
government {Bell: In other words, getting money for it?}, might
not want a scandal.
They do not want people saying, oh this is
another way of throwing money down the drain and the military's
investing in psychics, and {Bell: Yes, OK...} the government
wants to avoid things like that, because it takes too much time
to explain it.
You're having me on for over two hours {Bell:
Right...}, people are basically just now getting it right, but
in the normal news, you've got a ten second, thirty second sound
bite at most {Bell: That's right.}, and it's just too difficult
to explain, and the government says, I just can't explain this.
{Bell: Well that's why I hate TV.}
So well basically that's the
problem, so the government has eradicated these
types of controversies.
The third reason for this is that
the government is now backpedaling a lot with regard to this
program. They're acknowledging the existence of the unit, but they are very, concerned about what happened to the
members of the unit. The unit was supposed to be very highly
classified. {Bell: Oh? And it's all broken out.} And it's
everywhere.
ART BELL
But still doctor, I can't believe they'd stop it -- look our
CIA, bless their hearts, they've got the morals of an alley cat,
and if they could get information about what's going on in
Russia or China or whatever, I'm just absolutely certain
they've still got a program going on somewhere, maybe not the
military one that accounts for your beginnings, but --
DR BROWN
There is no training program going on, I know that. The only
-- there is no training program going on right now within the
military. Really they're trying to distance
themselves from what has occurred as the former, now retired,
remote viewers, are, a number of them, not all of them,
there were you know, nineteen people that were trained by,
Ingo Swann.
The original military group, and their, you
know, the military right now is trying to backpedal as fast as
they can from some of the people that were in the unit that are
now coming out publicly talking about it. Basically we're
talking about breaking security oaths, we're talking about
coming out publicly writing books, trying to make
movies, things like that, on something that was one of the most
highly classified projects ever {Bell: Right.}, and the
government's not happy with that, and the military itself is
not, not looking [inaudible section] all this information coming
out from its trusted spies --
ART BELL
Then how come, how come Ingo, Major Dames, all the others,
whoever, why are these guys still walking around, why aren't
they --
DR BROWN
Well they've actually clamped down on all the others, they have
their own, they have a few Internet outlets, one of them has
almost become what you might consider the former military's home
page {Bell: {laughs}}, you can get to it by going under Yahoo
and looking under, under remote viewing, just search remote
viewing under Yahoo on the Internet, and you'll get two
institutes,
-
one is mine,
the Farsight Institute. Actually I
can't just say it's mine anymore, there's so many people working
-
the other is the
Controlled Remote Viewing home page of
one of the former military people
{Bell: Right.}, ...and the whole history of the unit, all of its bumps and
everything, warts and everything, can be found there. And you know, the government's not very happy about that.
In
fact the
Controlled Remote Viewing
web page of this retired
unit, was actually decimated once by a hacker that got into
the internet site where it's housed, got through all the
firewalls in fell swoop, went to the home page, eradicated it
without eradicating anyone else's, so badly that it couldn't
be rebuilt, and had to be uploaded originally again --
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