Project Serpo
The Zeta Reticuli Exchange Program
|
Comments from List Members
These have been edited to some degree (to remove non-relevant material) but every effort has been made not to alter any meaning. There has also been a huge volume of private correspondence between list members which is not duplicated here as it was never intended for the wider audience.
4 November
2005
‘Falcon’ states the Eben climate is cooler and that they ‘can’t
stand a lot of heat’, which obviously conflicts with Anonymous 1 statements.
Again as Tim and myself have pointed out the general rule of thumb, big eyes
= poor light conditions. A biological entity evolving on a planet with 35
hours of daylight within a 38 hour period is unlikely to have developed the
eyes that have become so characteristic of the Grey [Eben]…...
7
November
There are conflicts with other data. Rick Doty who witnessed the EBE-2 interview
(EfB book) says Zeta 1 had 11 planets. That Zeta 2 was well beyond the orbit
of the 11th planet. Zeta 1 & 2 are not close binaries. They are spread
very far apart. Astronomical Observations back that up. Rotation period according
to EBE-2 was 38 hours. Temperatures, 65-90. Orbital tilt was 54 degrees. All
this from the EBE-2 interview in the EfD book [Exempt from Disclosure].
Epsilon Eridani is a K2 type star. Age estimates put it at .5 to a billion years old.
Not long enough for even amoebas to develop. ANONYMOUS I..... has got lots
of things right but other things wrong or it's mixed up which makes me suspect....
7
November
Facts about Epsilon Eridani
Spectral class: K2V
Distance from Earth: 10.8
Luminosity: 0.3L
Mass: 0.7 solar masses
Surface temperature: 5200 Kelvin
Lifetime: 15 billion years
Type of star: Orange Dwarf
Habitable Zone: 0.4-0.6 AU
EE is older than our sun
7
November
I'm no astronomer but I have some questions about the positioning of the planet
in relationship to the two suns. ______ ______ brings up some interesting
questions about the distance between SERPO and the two suns. That distance
is pretty close. The orbit must take SERPO around one sun but not the other.
If there is some darkness on SERPO, where are the two suns when this is occurring.
Some of the information is different from what was reported that Ebe 2 said.
But maybe information wasn't reported accurately.
If Victor's source is on this email list, I'd like to ask a few questions.
1. What is the age of the Eben civilization?
2. What is the age of SERPO?
3. Planet Otto, if it is 430 million miles, what is its size? Orbit?
4. How far advance are the Ebens compared to us, at least back in the late 60s?
5. Have we ever heard from the two who stayed behind? If there was a communication system in place in 1966, is it still being used today? If we do have communication with the two left behind, what are they saying?
6. When did we actually communicate with the Eben's in order to set up this exchange program? Was it in the desert of New Mexico in 1964? Did we have continued communication with the Eben's from 1964 to 1966? If it took 9 months to travel back to SERPO, did the Eben's just stay around Earth or our solar system between 1964 and 1966?
7. Although the Ebens didn't have time, as we knew it, can we gauge how long each Eben lived?
Just a few questions, I hope they can be answered.
7
November
It is easy to debunk this whole revelation of non-eye-opening details. The
story of
abductee Betty Hill seeing a star map during her abduction and the
determination by astronomy teacher Marjorie Fish that the two central stars
in the map represented Zeta-1 and Zeta-2 Reticuli could have been the seed
for intel to select these stars as a good candidate for the suns that warm
the aliens home world and plant that in the public's mind from UFO cover-up
Live where Rick says the aliens like strawberry ice cream (what a hoot!),
Bob Lazar's claim that it was in the briefing books, etc.
Then contactees like
Billy Meier (and many more) report being taken to the
ET's home world or other planets and report what is there (a kind of program
for civilians).
Then Steven Spielberg make a movie in 77 (CE III) where military volunteers
are selected to go with the aliens to their home world for a number of years
(except the aliens make another choice). Put the right elements together and
presto: You have Serpo. Since Gene thinks abductions (like Hill's) are sci-fi
and don't happen, we are given a substitute sci-fi story of 12 men going to
the alien's home planet for 20 years. Come on, who's going to believe it?
Then rip off the term "grays" from these fabricating abductees and use
that to bolster the story.
Mere planting of a story with some disagreements is not enough to bamboozle
the public. Where's the proof? As an investigator, people ask me for proof
and I honestly reply when there is no proof. It winds up being taken on faith.
Show us the proof.
9 November
Victor: Ask him for the specs on the Alien craft, propulsion systems probably
too much to ask for but he should be able to give details on interior layout
etc.
9
November
Nothing really new here except added information on the make up of the planet.
As for the laws of physics, your Anonymous is twisting the facts. The orbits
of those two stars Zeta1 & 2 is an observational fact, not some law of
physics although all galaxies, stars & planets operate under those laws
from what's been observed. The two stars are spread wide apart by 350 billion
miles called a wide binary. And Kepler's law was applied to the planets of
Zeta 2 and it works pretty good even for elliptical orbits. Puts EBE-1's home
planet #4 right where it should be, see table below. The game I think is to
convince everyone that yes Anonymous does have some good information. But
beware, good information from what I see is being sprinkled with bad information
or disinfo. For Zeta 1 & 2 see link. For Zeta 2 Planets see table.
www.solstation.com/stars2/zeta-ret.htm
EBE-1 came from the 4th planet around Zeta 2. See the AU place planet 4 is sitting around Zeta 2 or 1.12 AU. Very nice place to live.... Notice that Zeta-4 orbital period is 432 days but yet it's further out than SERPO was in that Anonymous report which gave a ridiculous 865....
Planets of the Zeta 2 Reticulum System |
So one Reticulum 4 year is equal to roughly 1.12 earth years or 432 days. And it is in roughly the same position in Zeta 2 Ret's "life-zone" as the Earth is in the Sun's. Zeta 2 Ret is a G1V spectral class star, the sun is a G2V.
9
November
Gentlemen, if I have confused EBEs with Greys or committed some other unforgivable
error of sharp attention to the multi-threaded arguments presented the last
several days, please forgive me. However, _________'s lines below appear to
me to border on arrogant derision - am I wrong?!
Of course, more or less, but usually very accurately, the Keplerian Laws apply
to normal star systems.
THE TROUBLE is that several physicists in the list may have FORGOTTEN that
in Kepler's law of
(orbital distance)3 / (orbital period)2 = constant
THE "constant" depends on the MASS OF THE SYSTEM.
10
November
Now that said I ask those detractors to think outside the box. First, because
the source's core story might be true doesn't mean the numbers being supplied
are. For all those not trained in the Sciences the numbers don't seem to matter.
But I ask, they sure matter when you get a pay check or balance your check
book don't they? Those numbers do matter to those of use who did a lot of
number crunching in Graduate School. The source may say that he is reading
from the document itself but we don't know that to be true. Wherever Anon
is getting his information from he may very well be sprinkling it with made
up numbers of his own in order to confuse people and provide what is called
"plausible denial" which is used quite often in intelligence work.
10 November
You might be right but then again, you might be absolutely wrong. What if
your calculations don't work on SERPO? You cannot keep an open mind by saying
that on Earth these calculations state....................this. Well, maybe
they do on earth. But maybe on SERPO things are different.
10
November
Numbers don't sell people: what's going to make this story real is fleshing
it out with details about how ET lives, etc.
What do they eat? What are their favorite dishes? When they procreate, do
they get the same enjoyment that mankind does from the activity?
What about this garbage about the "hive-mind" that ET has? Does
that relate, or is it a different group of ET's? If so, how do they handle
privacy?
There are a million questions to be answered, and stuff about how the planet's
orbit are last on the list.
If ET appeared on the White House lawn, would orbital data be interesting
to begin a discussion with?
10 November
Kepler's laws apply to normal star systems. Zeta 1 & 2 are a wide binary
which is observed not calculated, repeat, observed not calculated. Their masses
are roughly
that of our own sun so that constant in Kepler's law can get set to 1. Then
you just do the rest. I'm not talking about the physical conditions on SERPO.
I'm talking about the orbits of the planets and stars. See link below, Zeta
1 & 2 are separated by one tenth of a light year or 350 billion miles.
Said those things a million times also. It's not me, all those numbers can
be referenced...
www.solstation.com/stars2/zeta-ret.htm
10
November
Victor and All, people on this list with such good questions for Anonymous
would probably be interested in Paper 72 of The Urantia Book: A Revelation
for
Humanity, titled
GOVERNMENT ON A NEIGHBORING PLANET, 1955. It is 11 pages
of fine print. Chapter titles include: Political Organization, The Home Life,
The Educational System, Industrial Organization, Old-Age Insurance, Taxation,
The Special Colleges, The Plan of Universal Suffrage, and Military Preparedness.
The presenter of this paper said that the information in this paper would
be useful to us on this planet at this time.
www.urantia.org
I made this recommendation at the round table on "Democratizing World
Governance" during the last State of the World Forum in 2000.
Don Ware
10
November
I'm a military scientist. Here are my observations regarding the SERPO information:
The question of whether the "laws of physics" apply differently
from galaxy to galaxy dependent upon their spin is irrelevant to any discussion
of Reticuli twins in that they are both part of the same Milky Way galaxy
as is our Sun. Moreover, any distortion in our observations of OTHER galaxies
which MIGHT result from the spin of our own, would apply across the board,
and thus in essence negate itself since there would be no way to logically
compare it to similar distortional effects which would effect observers in
other galaxies in their efforts to observe us, presuming that both observations
were initiated at the exact same moment of Universal time. In other words,
if a third observer in some other dimension were able to compare 1 unit of
time (say a single oscillation of one atom of cesium) as observed on planet
earth, with 1 unit of time equally measured on the planet X in the far-away
galaxy of XXXXX, that observer might conclude (after removing all other variables)
that the two units were different from his perspective even though both observers
in both galaxies might observe and report what they though were the same results.
A cesium clock ticks off one second on planet earth. A twin cesium clock placed
in orbit and traveling at orbital velocity also ticks off one second. Observers
at each location agree that one second has passed as confirmed by the read-out
on their instrumentation. It is only when the two clocks are compared that
it becomes obvious that there has been some distortion; yet in attempting
to compare them it becomes equally obvious that the same observer cannot ever
observe both at EXACTLY the same time (with a bow to Heisenberg). Thus, differences
arise NOT from the observation, but from the perspective used to interpret
it.
The basic Theorem: Only from an observation platform set in ANOTHER universe
would an observer be able to detect and have some basis of accurately comparing
distortions being produced locally in THIS universe by differences in the
spin rates of the various galaxies of which it is composed. All this aside,
unless the inhabitants of SERPO routinely walk on ceilings and through walls,
the laws of physics apply the same there as they do here.
Lieutenant Colonel ____ ____
USAF Scientific Advisory Group
11
November
Time pieces would work but would record Earth time. If you had your PC there
it would work fine if you could supply it with the correct voltage/amperage
and 60 cycles. However, the PC would run on an Earth clock and record Earth
time not the time on SERPO, you'd have to update your software to get it to
run
on a SERPO clock which is 38 hours not 43. As for how energy is extracted
from the vacuum they use what is called a Crystal Rectangle,
see book:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976642603/002-3958207-8622461
Finally, as for the laws of Physics, an AF Col just emailed us last night
and said what's been said all along.
The Laws of Physics on SERPO are no different than they are on Earth, see above... Anon has been stating nonsense when it comes to physical laws........
11
November
If the "Away Team" couldn't make their measuring devices work properly,
then why even quote numbers like these?
Is a mile on earth a mile on SERPO? Recall that lengths are now referred to
the wavelength of light. Is the light wavelength to be trusted? Does red light
generated by excited neon atoms, which has a wavelength of 6328 Angstroms
on earth, have some other value in SERPIAN length measurement units? Is there
neon on SERPO? (Are their elements the same? Some have speculated that there
could be different values for Planck's Constant, c, etc., in different universes.
If SERPO is in another universe all bets are off as to whether or not we could
make sense of what is "normal" to them. Talk about "out of
the box" thinking.)
Some of you may recognize this as the wavelength of red HeNe laser light.
If a HeNe laser were built on SERPO and the the laser light directed toward
earth would the wavelength when received on earth be 6328 Å ? If so,
then there should be a simple ratio between SERPIAN length units and ours.
If not, then it would be much more difficult or perhaps impossible to derive
SERPO physics from our own.
Moons: SERPO has two.
Complicated tides? Distances from planet? relative sizes? Periods?
Day: 43 hours
Whose hours? Makes no sense to quote this as hours unless it is intended to
mean our hours, which are related to our seconds (3600 per hour) and each
second is a number of oscillations of the atomic clock. If atoms "run
differently" on SERPO then not only will wavelengths be different (see
above) but also frequencies (time durations of oscillation). Which type of
day? Does this refer to rotation of the planet relative to one of the nearby
stars or relative to the distant stars? (we measure "sun days" and
"distant star" days... they differ slightly because the earth rotates
around the sun) ASSUME this "day" is 43 of our hours so there are
154800 of OUR sec in THEIR day as compared to 86400 of OUR sec in our day
(approximations used liberally!)
Year: 865 days.
Does this mean our years? Probably not! For someone on SERPO it would be natural
to measure a complete rotation around a sun (relative to distant stars) in
terms of the rotations of the planet. If we assume this means THEIR days of
43 hours, then their year is (all numbers approximate) 1.3x 108
of OUR seconds, whereas our year is 3.1x107 of OUR seconds. Previously
the Kepler law was applied under the assumption that the mass of the sun about
which the planet rotates was the same as our sun.
However, I, probably incorrectly, used 865 days as 865 of "our" days, which would be 2.37 of our years. I should have accounted for the 43 hour day. A day this long means that the rotation period is actually 865/365 x 43/24 = 4.2 of our years. For the earth, Kepler's rule can be written as follows, using years and AU as the units of measurement (with 1 AU = radius of earth from sun) (1)3/(1)2 = 1 (AU)3/(year)2. For a planet rotating about a sun with the mass of or sun in 4.2 years
Kepler's rule is written as r3/(4.2)2 = 1 which leads
to a radius of 2.6 AU or 240 million miles, noticeably larger than the 164
million I calculated before.
One problem with this sun data: if strictly interpreted as the distance from
one sun is ALWAYS 91.4 million and the distance from the other is ALWAYS 96.5
then we have an "impossibility".... or at least I can't conceive
of an orbit that keeps the distance from one constant at one value and at
the same time keeps the distance from the other also at one value. I could
conceive of an orbit that keeps the distance from one constant while the distance
to the other varies with a periodicity that depends upon the period of rotation
of the suns about one another and the rotation period (SERPO year) of the
planet.
If interpreted as average distances from the suns as SERPO travels
in an elliptical (or more complicated) orbit, then there may be some way to
explain this. Of course, those suns would be orbiting one another at some
distance apart so if SERPO did have an orbit that encompassed both suns, then
it must orbit the center of mass of the suns (unless there is some complex
orbit, as I suggested previously, like a figure 8 or a warped ellipse). Need
more info on the suns, orbit, etc.
OTHER AMUSING CALCULATIONS:
DIAMETER: earth: 7,900 mi = 12,700 KM. SERPO 7,200 mi.= 11,600 km
MASS: earth - 6 x 1024 kg SERPO 5 x 1024 kg (assumed to be mass in kg)
AVG DENSITY = mass/([pi/6]D3)
For Earth = 5590 kg/m3
For SERPO = 6,100 kg/m3
g (accel of grav at surface) = GM/(Rsurf)2 where G = 6.7 x 10-11 m3kg-1s-2....
for earth (if you multiply the approximate numbers used here) g = 9.97 m/s2
(when done more accurately, 9.8 m/s2) for SERPO: 9.96 m/s2
AMAZING! (I had no idea that these numbers would come out so close)
(But why does the data table above show 9.60 m/s2. Is G different
in the SERPIAN system?)
Tilt 43 degrees.
Are these "earth degrees" of arc? That is quite a tilt, by the way.
Would make considerable winter-summer differences in each hemisphere (upper,
lower).
Temperature: 43 to 126 deg (F? C?).
Are these their degrees or ours? I presume ours (else why quote them). An
interesting experiment would be to determine whether or not the blackbody
curve on their planet is the same as on earth. If the physics is really different
there might be a difference in BB radiation (which relates electromagnetic
wave, thermodynamics and
quantum physics) There are lots more numerical "tests" one could
do to compare these two systems. Only by doing such tests can one learn where
the differences really are... or if things are the same after all. First applying
what is known to some new phenomenon is part of the scientific method. IF
what is known
fails to explain the phenomenon, then it is time to move out of the box.
Incidentally, people have been accused of not having an "open mind"
because they have asked questions that might illuminate inconsistencies in
the story and numerical data. However, I would guess that anyone on this email
list has an open mind..... or wouldn't be here. Just be sure not to let your
brains fall out.
11
November
Neat! Of course an alternative is that the Suns are somewhat less massive
than our Sol (which would shove the Mass ratio of Theirs/Sol < 1 in place
of the normalized "1.0" (with the Earth Orbital Distance, and the
Earth Orbital Period, the respective Length and Time units), which would mean
that larger Periods would prevail at similar Central Star-to-Planet Distance,
or less distance result at similar Orbital Period, compared to the Earth-Sol
system.
If they were in fact OLDER (relative time over expected lifespan of such and
such a mass star) than Sol, then they may already have begun Helium Burning
and a climb in Brightness, which could allow a bit lower mass stars than
Sol to shine as brightly.
Now novel several-body configurations have been found occasionally over the
last century, but most effort has gone into the restricted 3-Body problem
IN A PLANE. I can imagine a possibility with two similar stars there might
be a chance of stable manifold for a a small planet in a 'slow wobbling orbit'
around the center of mass of the two suns, approximately with 'normal' axis
the instantaneous line between the two stars. I write the quotes around "normal"
because I expect the orbit to reside NOT in a Plane but RATHER in a torus
centered on the center of mass of the two Stars.
However, the squeaker of a coincidence for surface gravitational acceleration
value (9.97 and 9.96 - compared to engineering assumed Earth normal of 9.806
m/s2) you show below suggests that some of the "data"
has been cooked in a whimsical way.
If Serpo is slightly similar in size than Earth but has a higher bulk mass
density, then I certainly see a possibility of less of the lighter mantle
elements O, K, Mg, S, Si than with Earth, certainly less water of hydration
in upper mantel rock, and maybe less crustal pore space.
14 November
I’m curious. If Mr Anonymous is retired, as stated, how does he have
direct access to the original documents? Paul states all viewing must be inside
the secured facility. Rick confirmed that the information is highly guarded.
Once retired, does one retain special access to secured facilities?
14 November
From what Mr Anon. has already said about seeking permission from the few
surviving managers, I got the impression that his project had long since ceased
to be. Maybe he has the document because he was the 'document controller'?
14 November
Perhaps, although I would doubt he would be allowed to take the documents
with him on retirement, custodian or not. I doubt military rules and regulations
differ that greatly between the States and the UK. Hopefully Rick or Gene
will advise on usual procedure, perhaps they can also advise whether there
is only one copy of the documents – the original, or were photocopies
taken for distribution amongst specialized departments?
14
November
I've already had independent confirmation from three sources now that the
late Dr Carl Sagan WAS involved in such a project and Project Serpo served
as the inspiration for his '85 novel and '97 movie, "Contact."
15
November
I asked my father, who was a Lieutenant Colonel in the AF during the mid 60s,
about the scientific calculator. He said the military had some sophisticated
calculators, some used on space missions. He wasn't sure if they were classified
or not but knew the NSA had some and assumed the AF had some. For a mission
of this importance, I'm sure all the NEW items were taken.
If our team had two energy devices and those devices allowed our team to use
Earth based voltage, current and wattage, then why not use it to power the
clocks? But maybe there is more to it. Maybe they had to ration the use of
the energy devices or maybe there is more to it than we can understand. I'll
leave an open mind on this one.
[Pertaining to a private discussion about how easy it would have been to establish
communication with alien race]
As for the communication problem. We differ
here. I have traveled around the world. I spoke conversational Russian and
fluent German. Even in Russia, I had problems communicating with the people.
Sure, I could speak with them, but I didn't always fully communicate my questions
and could not always understand their answers. Understanding customs, social
behavior and cultures also are involved in the communication process. I could
not imagine living on another planet (although I'd love to try), trying to
learn an entirely different form of language and then trying to communicate
with a true Alien civilization. I can understand the difficulties they must
have had. Mr. Anonymous did state we learned (or at least two members of the
team) learned to communicate through a form of sign language. But we are foreign
to their civilization, social system, social behavior patterns, etc. We could
not possibly understand their communication cycle. Stop and think, on Earth,
although there may be different countries, cultures, languages, etc, we still
all are human beings. Even without language, we can communicate simple things
that are the same in any languages or cultures. However, on a foreign planet,
this could not be true.
I agree, 9,000 lbs of supplies for 12 people for a 10 year mission isn't a
lot. Military C-Rations weighed about 14 ounces per meal. Now, they did have
some special meals created for flight crews. Those meals were packaged in
plastic bags, rather than cans, as the old C-Rations were packaged. Maybe
they had some special C-Rations. Mr. Anonymous didn't relate how much of the
supplies were perishable and how much was equipment. Then maybe there was
other equipment that wasn't mentioned.
As for the electric heaters. Maybe our team just came prepared. I spent many
years in the military and were forced to take supplies that were not needed.
Remember, this was a military mission, they had different protocols than civilian
missions.
As for our team wondering around the planet. I agree, we must have taken photographs.
Even if we couldn't understand what we were seeing, we could later study the
photographs and try to use reasoning and figure it out! But I cannot possibly
put myself in that predicament. They were on a new world, not inside a country
on planet Earth.
I don't believe Mr. Anonymous is reading from the official report. I think
he/she is reading the document and then putting the facts in his own words.
Or maybe Victor is changing words to protect Mr. Anonymous.
Mistakes like wattage, compare to amperage or voltage, doesn't seem important
to me. If I was reading a medical document, which contains medical terms,
I'd probably explain it later using layman's terms. The use of wattage versus
amperage (current) could be just a lay person trying to explain something.
Maybe the word was amperage or current and Mr. Anonymous remembered it as
wattage. Wattage would be important in powering an electrical appliance. If
you travel on Earth, you know each country has different voltage.
The water problem can easily be explained. Maybe they meant filter and boil
and Mr. Anonymous just didn't state that. I agree that boiling the water just
kills the bacteria and doesn't do much to the chemicals, except bring some
to the top. Maybe boiling the water meant the entire purification process.
As for the aircraft accident. Can't explain that. But maybe our team was watching
a display or was near the airport when it happened. Don't know about this
one.
One thing that concerns me is the radiation the team was receiving. I would
think the team had some sort of radiation detection equipment. Back then,
they had Radacs. We also had dosimeters. I'm sure each team member wore one
and must have read it periodically. Knowing this was a military mission, someone
must have been designated a health monitor, probably the physicians. If the
team realized they were receiving large doses of radiation, why didn't they
bring this to the Eben's attention. If the Ebens were so benevolent, then
they might have provided some form of protection to the team members or provided
them with an anti-radiation pill or something. Or, once the team received
the maximum dose, why didn't the Eben's bring them home? One of my former
colleagues thinks the radiation could be something different, in another wavelength
and thus our team members didn't register that particular radiation dose.
I am keeping an open mind. I have a lot of questions about Mr. Anonymous (could
be a she) and the information he/she is providing. He/she sure sounds as if
they were there or had some very serious access to the people and information.
My uncle was involved in the program. But he had kept pretty quiet about it.
He has opened up somewhat since this information has been released but he
hasn't analyzed the information, like we and others are doing. I'm waiting
to bend his ear during our Thanksgiving get together. Maybe he'll open up.
I have been in contact with many former colleagues. Some had access to the
program and stand by Mr. Anonymous information 100%. Others, like myself,
who knew about the program but never in any details, are more skeptical.
Lets wait and see what happens regarding the future disclosure process. I
do find myself waiting for more information, as if reading a thriller and
waiting to turn the next page!
17
November
At the very least, we should let Anon dump all the data he has/can into the
public domain then begin an analysis. If he has access to thousands of pages,
then we are seeing the most basic summary of a potentially huge and important
dataset. I personally don't feel able to make any further judgements as to
its veracity until I've read as much as possible.
17
November
2005
For the case of circular orbits around a star - which means the planets' masses
must be negligible compared to the mass of the substitute 'Sun', which means
that the
mass of the stellar system can be taken as the mass of the star, I already
already discussed and showed the dependency of the R3/T2
ratio on the mass of the Star of an Alternative 'Solar' System way back on
9 Nov 2005 on this list - or did no one bother to understand what I wrote?
The quote << ... >> is soon below. If the Circular Case requires
dependency of the ratio on the mass of the central planetary system's star,
then so do the elliptical orbit cases.
Of course, in any REAL multi planetary
system, no orbit is likely exactly a closed ellipse anyhow, due to interference
of other planets - such as Jupiter and Venus in the case of Earth's Orbit,
as well of course our Sacred Mother Moon, so the Kepler game is already in
an IDEAL WORLD, one of many preferred by the Cowards of Physics, loathe even
to admit that the Restricted Three Body Problem of Mathematician Henri Poincare
a century ago (SUN, Jupiter and ignorable small mass planet like Mars, in
a plane) is NOT QUITE YET EVEN A DONE, DONE Deal, let alone non planar variations,
especially when no mass in the system is considered neglect able.
Simulations? ... Hmmmm, maybe say with say 32 bit reals on a Many CPU 'Stupor
Confuter' using wildly inappropriate for nonlinear systems imminently parallelizable
but oh so weak algorithms?! ... Well, The FASTER IN, the faster out, yes,
FASTER but NOT better! Nothing substitutes for highly accurate calculations,
good algorithms competent for truly nonlinear systems, and high precision,
certainly not SPEED. Then there are STILL those 'SECULAR TERMS' which vexed
all! Here's what I wrote 8 days ago, and please note that "PRIMARY"
of a 'SOLAR' System has a known Astronomical meaning, which is the STAR at
the Center of the Planetary System:
<<begin quote>>
...may have FORGOTTEN that in Kepler's law of ((orbital distance)3)/((orbital period)2) = constant, THE "constant" depends on the MASS OF THE SYSTEM. To maintain equal orbital distances, more massive central stars require higher planetary orbital speeds, hence reduced planetary Orbital Periods, while less massive stars produce equal orbital distances by greater planetary Orbital Periods.
THOUGHT EXPERIMENT in a Simplified Set of 'Solar Systems':
-----------------------------------------------------------
Consider the Sun and Earth - with an assumed circular orbit of Earth about an Unmoving Central Sun (Kepler's idea plus the imposition of a circular rather than general elliptical orbit, to improve simplicity of demonstration) - and consider another system with an Earth-duplicate in same sized orbit about a Star of mass 1/10th of our Sol's, then another system, likewise with an equal Earth of equal 93 million mile circular orbit radius but with the central star of mass 10 times that of our Sol. For simplicity We IMAGINED the orbit of the Earth circular, so - Okay - Venus would have been a more realistic example. Does anyone REALLY believe that the same orbital size of 'Earth' in these three contexts (Our Own System, and two others with 1/10th or 10 times Solar Mass Central Star) prevails AT THE SAME ORBITAL PERIOD of their respective 'Earths'? I hope NOT!
In Newtonian terms, the Gravitational force F on Earth is:(1) F = G*(Mass of System Star)*(Mass of Earth)/(Radius2),
and will be THE Force of Central Acceleration holding the Earth in its (simplified, assumed) 'circular' orbit:
(2) F = (Mass of Earth)*((Earth's Orbit Speed)2)/(Orbital Radius).
From these two equations results
(3) GM/r = v2,
where M is the Central Star's mass, G the Newtonian Universal Gravitational Constant, and v the orbital speed of the Earth. The period of the Earth's Orbit is
T = 2*pi*r/v, so that
(4) T = 2*pi*r/(sqr(GM/r)) = 2pi*r3/2/sqr (GM).
which on manipulation gives
(5) G*M/4*pi2 = r3/T2,
showing the "Keplerian Constant" depends on the Mass of the Planetary System Star. Thus the period for the 'Earth' in the 10 times 'Sol Mass' Star case is about 1/3rd of that the REAL Solar System Case, and one tenth that of the 'Earth' in the 1/10 'Sol Mass' Star case (the square root of 10 is about 3.162). Since the periods vary, but the geometries are the same, the r3/T2 Keplerian Orbital Ratio must calculate to different "Planetary System Constants" in the three cases.I certainly believe Kepler's laws apply well enough in various systems, including close Separable Binaries, but what I had objected to was an apparent belief of SOME
that the value of the Kepler ratio would be the SAME for various systems of different mass Solar Primaries. Maybe I only misunderstood and accidentally inferred a Physical Forgetfulness on the part of Competent Physicists who should KNOW BETTER.
<<END QUOTE>>
So why do we need a further analysis of The Elliptical Orbit Case, since the above already shows in the circular sub case THAT the 'Constant' Value (IN A SINGLE SYSTEM) of the r3/T2 ratio depends on the Central Star Mass M?!
18
November
2005
Please see below. The planet mass drops out in the derivation. So all you
have left is the mass of the Sun or Star. Kepler's third law is independent
of planet mass....
Here we have an expression which indicates that T2 is proportional
to a3; but the constant of proportionality doesn't look like it
is the same quantity for all planets -- after all, it seems to be a function
of m and l, which are certainly different for each planet. Thus, we'll continue
on with our proof. We know from Kepler's first law that e p = l2/(G
m2 M). We can use this information to substitute into our expression
for T2 to find that,
T2 = 4 pi2 (m2/l2) l2/(G m2 M) a3
The m2 and l2 cancel, and we are left with
T2 = (4 pi2)/(G M) a3
The constant of proportionality, (4 pi2)/(G M), is the same quantity
for all planets – it depends only on G, the constant of universal gravitation,
and M, the mass of the Sun. Therefore, the square of the period of a planet
is proportional to the cube of the length of the semimajor axis, and this
proportionality is the same for all planets. This is Kepler's third law.
www.alcyone.com/max/physics/kepler/6.html
18
November
2005
The derivation is good for BOTH ellipses and circles.
18 November
2005
What is alarming is the obvious de-linking of the mass ET/EI encounter-phenomenon
from the ‘EBEN’ visitation and subsequent ‘exchange programme’.
As absolutely fascinating and WOW provoking the EBEN planet is, some of us
would like this question answered……
Q: WHY and WHAT are the Aliens doing here on Earth?
20
November
2005
[in response to
Anonymous's 9th posting]
Ok, let me get this straight. Kepler's laws would work except one must take
into consideration the gravitation pull of the other planets and suns (2)
in the SERPO solar system. Dr. Sagan created something that made the equations
work based on the information supplied by the Team.
So, what do we have? Dr. Sagan made Kepler's Laws work? Or, Dr Sagan created
something different and that worked?
21
November
Nearly 50 years ago, Eric Frank Russell wrote
Allamagoosa,
the funniest science fiction short story it’s ever been my delight to
read. In this exquisite little tale, the captain of a space cruiser is notified
that there is to be a mandatory routine inventory inspection. It’s a
hassle, but he must comply. After days of work, everything is accounted for
except for one item, which reads simply: “offog, one”.
No-one can explain the offog and no-one has a clue what it is. Fearful of
admitting to his superiors that the item has been lost, he fabricates a little
white lie that he’s awfully sorry, but the offog had disintegrated in
a hyperspace jump. The story ends with the captain staring at an urgent telex
recalling every ship in the galactic fleet – at a cost of trillions
of dollars – pending an investigation into the disintegration of the
ship’s official dog.
So what’s a “DIM”? Here is another “gross consistency”.
It rings true that Anon reports this faithfully but does not know what it
is. Neither do I: I’ve been staring at my keyboard looking at every
combination of typos (like the offog), to no avail. It may well be an acronym
– but what for? Maybe the ex-military list members might guess what
it is. Furthermore, we need to know if it’s a D.I.M., DIM, a Dim, or
a dim. Can Anon clarify?
Here’s one more.
In Dan Sherman’s book,
Above
Black, in which he reveals how he was groomed and trained as a telepathic
communicator with a race of ETs whom he received information from and about
but never actually met, Sherman states that he learned that "time"
– as we humans know it – does not have the same meaning for "them".
They still age as we do but are not bound by the physics of time as we currently
are. Their means of travel across vast distances is heavily dependent on the
manipulation of time but not as we perceive it.
Sherman asked if they can travel through time: e.g., can they go backward-or-forward
in time? He was told that it was not possible to witness a reality that occurred
in some other time but the present. In order to go back in time, one must
assume that there exists a reference point from which to measure backward
or forward. This is an impossibility. Essentially, they weren't able to travel
through time but around time and from time. Sherman says he never really understood
what this meant. Their mode of propulsion was somehow that they used “time"
and electromagnetic energy. Also they said that our sun was very unique; and
that someday we would understand how it really worked and how we could utilize
the same methods that they themselves use but on a smaller scale.
There are other candidates for “gross consistencies”, but I’ll
keep my powder dry for the moment. I’m noting them carefully. The problem,
of course, with these is that they might also be reasons to dismiss everything.
It’s like strawberry ice cream. I lean to thinking that (like the anomalous
orbital data) that’s so absurd it has to be true, because no-one would
dare invent it. The false information component of disinformation has to be
credible for the purpose of the disinformation to be achieved.
Logically there are four possibilities:
1) Anon is a pathological prankster and the reported data is either all invented or clumsily culled from other sources and added to a wild novelistic story.
2) Anon is operating to an agenda and the information is deliberately distorted, but contains a core of extraordinary truth.
3) Anon is doing his best to report data from an indirect source (personal notes, his own short or long term memory, or another person), but accidental errors, omissions and additions have occurred.
4) Anon is reporting everything faithfully and accurately as best he can present it.
Only possibility (1) means everything should be rejected. The other three necessarily mean that the story deserves close attention.
22
November
2005
I'm always interested in hearing about Dan Sherman, a case that I think has
been HIGHLY ignored.
You may know that there is a huge amount of information in the available literature,
reportedly coming from contacts with off world beings, that supports what
Dan Sherman states he was told. Specifically that the nature of "time"
is not at all like we think about it. In many cases, the beings have even
said that "time" does not exist. I feel they mean for themselves
and their technology, it does not exist. After all, if you can travel into
the past and future at will, does "time" still exist.
If one had
a teleporter into which you could step and it would instantly send you to
any place on earth, one might say that (with that technology) "distance"
no longer exists. If your transportation time is near instantaneous, does
distance matter any longer? Conceptually, no! Distance is no longer a barrier
to travel and usually our current distance barriers also includes the time
component for making ones way across that distance. Some feel that the time
itself is the main factor. If not, why would we be building faster and faster
jets and planning hypersonic craft to get us there even more quickly?
One case I've studied extensively says the beings are capable of near instantaneous
jumps in distance that we simply cannot imagine. They claim that once technology
reaches the point where one can access a certain "extra-dimensional"
area of the universe, travel over millions of light years is accomplished
in the blink of an eye. Our science fiction can imagine that, but most of
our real minds simply cannot believe it. But, if true, as in the teleporter
example above, then distance and time become just concepts and no longer barriers.
So distance and time would "no longer exist." Obviously, that's
a technicality, a concept, because the miles between points are still the
same - but the "time" it takes to cross the distance has essentially
dissolved. Some type of system for measurement for crew changes, sleep periods,
meeting times, etc. would still need to exist, simply for convenience and
scheduling sake, so things operate in some sort of sync.
You may have also heard that some offworlders have stated that there are multiple
timelines of existence. And that if you go back to the same point in time
on several different occasions, some things may be slightly different each
time (the idea of free will modifying events in parallel tracks of time so
that the generalities are there, but the absolute specifics can vary). Is
that true? Hey, maybe one day we'll know - but I'm not holding my breath.
Ha! The only hope for really understanding fascinating things like these any
time soon is to get a little help from those alien beings that are so far
advanced. So, if you happen to know any, send them over to my place... I've
got a lot of questions to ask them! :)
PS: The worrisome thing for me about Dan Sherman's information is that he
was trained for the time when there would be a huge disruption of the worlds
communication systems from some disaster. The end of that Mayan calendar is
fast approaching and some of the alien beings have said that there is a severe
problem with the planet looming. That's gonna' hit right about the time I'm
supposed to retire! BUMMER! :)
22
November
2005
What
sort of combination of polar axis tilt and planet rotation about its axis
would result in 35 hours of daylight and 3 of night at some location on the
plane for anything other than a relatively short time during the 600 day year?
A location where the sun shines for 35/38 of a day must be just "below"
the equivalent of our arctic circle. 54 degree tilt means that their "arctic
circle " is at latitude 26 deg. Assuming the rotational angular momentum
is conserved for the planet in the book (ooops, but maybe we can't assume
this for the SERPIAN SYSTEM where nutty professors are not allowed to assume
anything about the physics?) then the planet has seasons because the spin
axis points in the same direction (relative to the distant stars.... a "Machian"
effect) as the planet goes around its star.
A location where, at some time during the year, there are 3 hours of darkness (assumed to be loss of light from a SINGLE sun) in a 38 hour rotation period must be at a latitude a few degrees lower than 26 degrees, i.e., rather close to the SERPIAN equator. So for summertime in the "northern hemisphere" we have 35 hours of daylight, 3 hours dark. Conversely, 300 days later (1/2 year) there is winter in the northern hemisphere and the sun is above the horizon for about 3 hours and the rest of the day is dark. Sounds as if it would get quite cold in the winter.
23
November
2005
Ok, what did this guy say? Is he right? I hear about a 100 different descriptions
of Kepler's law.
23 November
2005
The senior theory (essentially proven) is Newton's inverse square law for
gravity. For a simple system, Kepler's Laws are a fallout of what a planetary
solution looks like (for the simple case of a single planet circling a massive
sun). For a complex situation (like a planet interacting with two suns, several
planets, or whatever) you have to go back to Newton's law and solve a many-body
problem which takes a computer. In this case Kepler's Laws are only an approximation,
since they hold only for the simplest case.
24
November
2005
The EBE-1 and EBE-2 information is very consistent with what has been astronomically
observed for Zeta 1 & 2. Meaning the 4th planet from Zeta 2 for EBE-1
and the 3rd planet from Zeta 1 for EBE-2. They are mentioned in the context
of two separate solar systems. So, you're willing to trash all that information
because of what Anon says? I'm sure not for the one big reason I just cited
or, that EBE information is very consistent with what's been observed scientifically...
25
November
2005
The thought occurred to me that another explanation for some of the anomalies
in Anon’s single expanded account (i.e. taking all the data together)
might be that the data from two different planets, in two different systems
(maybe from two different exchanges!) had somehow got all compressed into
one, possibly through totally innocent reasons. If we hypothesize that, many
if not all of the difficulties would immediately be resolved.
25
November
2005
We need to keep collecting data until the anomalies really drop out; and if
you take the entirety of data in the UFOlogical field, there are a lot of
anomalies!! The one thing I think we can be sure of and all agree on is that
SOME of it is correct. That’s the common ground of everyone on the list,
the thing that unites us. The rest is detail.
28
November
2005
Incidentally, the "senior theory" mentioned above, re: Newton's
gravitational attraction law, is only part of the "equation". The
other parts are:
(1) the equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass, and
(2) the centrifugal force due to orbiting keeps the suns from crashing together and is balanced: M1 omega2 R1 = M2 omega2 R2, where omega is the angular rate of rotation, (v1/R1 = v2/R2). Each M is the inertial mass which has been shown to equal the gravitational mass and is a basis for Einstein's theory of gravity.
This centrifugal force (each sun pulling on the other) is what results in
the rotation about the center of mass at some location along the line joining
the the two suns. The center of mass is found by using R = R1 + R2 and M1R1
= M2R2, where R is the distance between the suns and the gravitational force
between the suns is GM1M2/R2. When M1 = M2 the center of mass is
at the center point of the line joining the centers of the suns. When one
mass is huge compared to the other (as with a planet orbiting a sun), the
center of mass becomes very close to the center of the most massive sun and
the sun "stands still" as the planet orbits.
Note that the recent discoveries of planets have been based on the fact that
if a planet is heavy enough the center of mass of the sun-planet system will
not be at the center of the sun. In this case the sun orbits the center of
mass and this orbiting can produce a doppler shift in the spectrum of light
from the sun as the sun goes around the center of mass.
29
November
2005
Interesting, to say the least. But I have several questions regarding the
language problems. As I understand from previous postings, when our team landed
on SERPO, they had trouble with the language. Now this seems to contradict
that information. If our team had over one year to hone their Eben language
skills, why did they have problem upon arrival to the planet? Is there more
than one language spoken on SERPO?
I realize how difficult learning a foreign language can be. I learned Russian
several years ago. I went through one year of Russian language training. That
didn't make me an expert in the language. God knows how difficult the Eben
language would be to learn. No words, just sounds and tones. How would we,
as humans, be able to speak it? Would we have to make certain sounds or tones?
I can't understand how humans could do that.
29
November
2005
Gene's Final Report Number
does look like the system used AFOSI from the 1980s. 80HQD would be HQ AFOSI
1980. Examples: 8017D would be AFOSI District 17 Kirtland AFB, NM. 80PJD would
be a Special Unit which operated out of Nevada and in the 80's.
30
November
Reference the earlier comment below: Zeta Ret 1 only has 79% of the luminosity
of our own sun. That and the distance of 1.39 AU from their own sun would
explain the big eyes. Those 35 hour days and 3 hours of darkness would compensate
for the less luminosity and distance but not totally. They'd still have those
big eyes.....
4 November:
‘Falcon’ states the Eben climate is cooler and that they ‘can’t stand a lot of heat’, which obviously conflicts with Anonymous 1 statements. Again as Tim and myself have pointed out the general rule of thumb, big eyes = poor light conditions. A biological entity evolving on a planet with 35 hours of daylight within a 38 hour period is unlikely to have developed the eyes that have become so characteristic of the Grey [Eben]…...
30
November
2005
I have looked
up DIM in the military reference
manuals. Here is what I gathered:
1. DIM - Defense Intelligence Manual
2. DIM - Digital Intelligence Message (came out in 1992)
3. DIM - Direct Image Message (an intelligence photo term)
4. DIM - Dynometer Instrument Metabolism (have no idea what this is)
5. DIM - Delicate Image Module (some sort of photo analysis machine)
That is all I can find. But my reference material is new. I can't find anything older than 1985.
1 December
2005
Having served my country for 20 years, I do know that any military units would
take back up weapons. Remember, we had no idea what to expect on Serpo. I
find it very smart for our team to take such a device. Don't think in present
day terms, think back then.
1 December
2005
I would like to suggest a new way of looking at time, which seems to clear
up some of the Anonymous references.
If any particle, say an electron, is given a 'push', it doesn't move immediately:
it just sits there for a time known as 'Tau': 2e2/3mc3,
or 6.26 x 10-24
seconds. After that time, it is instantaneously found to be moving at whatever
velocity the 'push' imparts to it. This non-local behavior in time has been
known for better than half a century, and is mostly just ignored as 'too small'
to worry about. This was the conclusion of F. Rohrlich in 1962: "The
Theory of the Electron":
www.philsoc.org/1962Spring/1526transcript.html
In his equation 9, he (incorrectly) derives this same time, 6 x 10-24
seconds, noting that it represents "a non-local behavior in time"
with "a lack of causality" at these time-intervals, but 'too small'
to inviolate the theory.
However in particle colliders, this time interval can't be ignored, for every
interaction, however violent, takes this minimum time before anything 'happens'.
Modern non-technical 'explanations' of this can be found several places, for
instance in Dr. Sam Treiman's book "The Odd Quantum" (Princeton
University Press, 2000) pp. 97-98 in which he shows that the wave function
does not change from T = 0 to T = Tau, with all the change happening at the
latter point.
If this same behavior were measured as the output of an analog-to-digital
converter, say a music synthesizer, it would be instantly recognized that
the time Tau was the interval between digital slices of the analog wave. To
put it more simply, a digital converter puts an analog wave, say a musical
sequence, through a 'baloney slicer', giving a digital number to each intercept
of the wave by each 'slice'. In the electron's case, the impulse is delivered
at T = 0, but there is no measurement until the later time T = Tau, at which
time the next 'slice' shows all the change in the analog wave over the (unmeasured)
interval Tau. (The digital number is a 'point-particle' result, although the
electron is and has evolved as 'wave'.)
This leads directly to the conclusion that time is quantized, a frequency,
the interval Tau being the time between 'baloney slices' of an analog wave,
the 'refresh rate' of our reality. Heisenberg was groping toward this conclusion,
noting that Planck's Constant 'h' was not a 'pure' constant, but a constant
of proportionality. He always thought it was the 'shadow' of some 'pure' constant
in some other dimension: he chose distance, deriving the above relationship
as a distance, 2e2/3mc2,
or about 1.8 x 10-15
meters. (This is the measured diameter of the nucleon, NOT a coincidence.)
He tried to slice the universe into tiny cubes this size, but this didn't
work, so he abandoned it.
However Planck's Constant has the dimensions of energy times time. Since Planck
was working with black-body energy, it has always simply been assumed that
energy is quantized. However everything works exactly the same if one assumes
that time is the quantized entity. And as Heisenberg noted, this interval,
whether measured as distance or time, is exactly the 'width' of the uncertainty
relationship, as of course the analog wave is unmeasured, hence uncertain,
anywhere between 'slices'.
This conclusion, that time is quantized, or a frequency, of course has immense
implications, the most startling perhaps being that we may live in a 'virtual',
rather than a 'real', reality.
However if one recognizes that time is a frequency, one can then look for
means of altering this frequency. This might mean that ones subjective time
might remain the same, but the 'rest of the universe' might flash by much
faster. "Visitors" have always said that time is much different
from our understanding of it. I don't have the reference in front of me, but
in the book "Witnessed" by Budd Hopkins an abductee describes being
taken from a pool party in the midst of her family, which was frozen in place,
splash from the pool hanging in air. Such a change in time's frequency might
result in a journey of thirty-some light years taking only seven months or
so.
Further implications of quantized time can be found in my papers, published
in "Infinite Energy" magazine, issues 43, and 44, and available
on the web at
www.openseti.org/Docs/HotsonPart1.pdf
and
www.openseti.org/Docs/HotsonPart2.pdf
2 December
2005
DIM Was "Duty-Information-Manual". The actual operations plan for
the journey.
Paul [McGovern]
2
December
2005
[This information, reported verbatim below, was supplied to Bill Ryan
personally by an active duty Air Force Lieutenant Colonel assigned to the
Pentagon. I (BR) have been in correspondence with him on a number of topics
and have found him to be measured, intelligent, thorough, reliable and honest,
as well as being a most pleasant and decent man. He wishes his name to be
withheld but would like this new information to be made known.
The correspondent's friend, referred to below, is a retired Air Force Colonel,
who worked in Air Force Intelligence for 33 years (a later correction of the
estimated figure of 30 years as originally stated).]
Yesterday,
I visited an old retired USAF Colonel. This Colonel had served 30 years in
USAF Intelligence. I don't know his exact time frame but it was sometime around
1955 to 1985. I have been friends with this Colonel for about five years.
His son, who is also my friend, serves in my unit. Because of his extensive
intelligence time, I wanted to run all this past him to see if he might know
something about the information being released by Victor. The Colonel doesn't
have email so I printed all the information from Anonymous and provided him
a copy. I watched him read the most current email, one with all the postings.
I watched his eyes and facial expressions.
After he was finished, he stated,
"Oh my God, who on this Earth would release such classified material"?
I then asked him if all this information was real. His simple answer was,
"yes, all real". I then asked the Colonel if he had been involved
with this project. He said, yes, he was involved in the communications aspect
of this operation from about 1961 until 1965. He was also on the debriefing
team. He wouldn't provide too much information, saying that unless he saw
that all information was declassified, he could not comment on details. I
thanked him and left.
I was startled, to say the least. Wow, this is actually true. I always thought
some of it was true but I had some doubts about details that have been released.
We may just be on the Verge of a major release of information about the most
important part of our History.
8 December
2005
I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters in the UK when Spielberg's "Close Encounters
of the Third Kind" first made its way around the overseas circuit. As
was customary, the "Daily Bulletin" (an informal posting of each
day's events) included mention of CE III as feature-of-the-day at the base
theater.
"Daily Bulletins" were a single-page feature displayed at a particular
spot on every unit's official bulletin board. It was replaced every day, and
each military member was expected to read it. What I found most interesting
was mention in this particular bulletin that everybody should go see this
particular movie.
I could not remember any such advice in previous bulletins, and never saw
it repeated during the three years I was there. For whatever reason, someone
obviously thought Close Encounters an important film...
23 December
2005
I just went through today's posting and have compiled every reference to a
team member or specific Eben that comes up. I believe that we can infer their
duties from what has been given so far:
The following list of quotes is from
the
eleventh posting:
899 and 203 will have overall charge of weapons.
700 and 754 will give each member final check before boarding.
475 really nervous. 700 will watch him.
102 sitting next to me and he is faint.
OK, I guess 203 and myself will sit in different location above these seats.
420 will try to use his language skills.
899 will taste it. Well, 899 said it tastes like paper.
OK, MVC finally showed up. Told us we will begin trip soon.
Well, 899 figured out how to get out because he is standing up.
899 said a EBE came in and looked at us and left. Other team members sleeping. 899 and myself walking around this room.
700 and 754 gave us medicine to settle our stomachs.
700 and 754 tells us to eat and drink the water we brought along we are doing that and feel a little better...
Our date recorder isn't working very well, according to 633. He thinks we have been going for 10 days but not really sure.
700 and 754, who ate the EBE food didn't seem to be as sick as us.
We drink that and seem to be better, except 518, who seem to be sick.
633 and 661 were really interested in this [command room]. 633 seemed better.
OK, MVC finally arrived. He explains in broken English, that we are halfway to home planet.
633 wants to see the engines. MVC takes four of us to the engine room or whatever they wish to call the room.
From these passages we can begin to figure out the role of each member of the team:
(no number) Commander (Male)
102 (Male)
203 Weapons duties (security?)
420 Linguist (Male)
475 (Male)
518
633 Scientist or pilot (Male)
661 Scientist or pilot
700 Doctor
754 Doctor
899 Weapons duties (Male) (security?)
MVC Alien guide/translator.
One of the crew members hasn't been mentioned yet.
*************
[And then another forum member pointed out:]
The team member not mentioned in the first journal entry seems to be the female
linguist mentioned in Anon's 2nd posting, since the only linguist mentioned
in the journal entry appears to be male.
"There were two females, one being a doctor and the other being a linguist."
"420 will try to use his language skills."
29 December 2005
Regarding the
ED (Energy Device) recovered from the (presumably) downed Roswell ship,
the dimensions quoted in the 'Exempt
from Disclosure' book are 8.24" wide, 11.65" tall, and 2.8"
thick. With the exception of thickness, this is close to what what Anonymous
reported in answer to a question about the ED.
Within an assumed measuring accuracy of 2 decimal places, the height is
EXACTLY a square root two multiple of the width.
If one further assumes that the Ebens used integer units for the external
dimensions of the ED (if only to simplify documentation!), this equates
to units of 53 wide, 75 tall and 18 thick. Thus it is possible that the
Zeta Reticuli Unit of measurement is approximately 3.95mm.
'Exempt from Disclosure' mentions that the ED was taken on many Space Shuttle
missions, and was tested on the International Space Station. This was reported
to be up to 1100V at 100A draw, without significant heating being observed.
Certainly enough power to lift a helicopter-like personal transporter device
over the surface of the Eben planet!
14 February 2006
Victor Martinez published the following messages he had received over the
preceding weeks and months and had never hitherto made public:
Subject(s): "Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT" "Project SERPO" and "Project
BISHOP"
From: ANONYMOUS
VICTOR:
To help further reinforce the credibility of “Project SERPO,” my group and I—the
DIA-6 -- have gathered some brief, but powerful testimonials from various USM
people involved with “Project SERPO.” Here are some of those testimonials; as
always, we ask that you cut, copy & paste the material to mask the origin for
all of these e-mails especially the ones sent directly to you.
Thanks for your help.
“Project SERPO” 12 Team Members
Team Commander
Assistant Team Commander
Team Pilot #1
Team Pilot #2
Linguist #1
Linguist #2
Biologist
Scientist #1
Scientist #2
Doctor #1
Doctor #2
Security
102
203
225
308
420
475
518
633
661
700
754
899
“Project CRYSTAL
KNIGHT” was started in the early 1960s. This was part of the original U.S. Space
Program, where U.S. military pilots were selected for astronauts. But the
military program was classified “Top Secret” because their program involved an
exchange of Extraterrestrial Biological Entities (EBEs).
The EBEs came from another planet. They called themselves “Ebens” and came from the planet SERPO in the Zeta Reticular Star System, 42 light years away. The Ebens first came to Earth about 2,000 years ago and were involved in the genetic examination of Earth humans.
The Ebens then left and returned in the early ‘40s, setting up a base in
northern New Mexico. In 1947, two of their spacecrafts crashed in southern New
Mexico. We discovered them and began a relationship with the Ebens.
“Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT” was a program that exchanged 12 American
astronauts with three Ebens. Our astronauts left on an Eben spacecraft and
traveled to the planet SERPO for 12 years, returning in 1978.
We are reading about this program in these releases. I was involved in the later
program which came after 1978. We had an additional exchange program set up,
under “Project BISHOP,” but President Reagan cancelled the project in
1985.
I was involved in “Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT” from about 1960 until 1965. I was
assigned as a civilian to this project. I was a CIA employee, with a
specialty of survival in a foreign environment. I was a training instructor at
the CIA training camp in Virginia. I trained the 12 men—NO women—who went on
this mission. They spent about eight months at our training facility. Few knew
their exact mission, which was classified “Top Secret/Codeword.” I had no other
involvement with this mission after 1965. I was very surprised to hear this
story come to light now after all these years.
I was involved with this program years ago. I was an Air Force Captain assigned
to a training element at Tyndall Air Base Florida. We trained these 12 in
astronaut procedures. We didn’t really know their final mission, but we did know
they were going into space.
I didn’t realize their fate until they returned. I read the classified report
and first thought it was a work of fiction. But as I read the report, I realized
these 12 men went to another planet, lived among aliens and returned. Four died
and eight returned.
------------------------------------------
The “Project
SERPO” information that I just read is NOT totally correct. There were two
women in the original 16 selected for training. I helped train the team,
including the two women. But after the final selection process—which did not
involve any combat training like what was mentioned on the Web site,
www.serpo.org—the two women were dropped from the list. During the training, the
Team Members didn’t know their actual assignment. When the final cut was made,
the 12 selected were sent to a military prison and then told of the assignment.
The 12 were isolated from that point on. The 12 were removed from the payroll of
the government and placed in a special file within the Defense Intelligence
Agency. The DIA was the controlling agency in “Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT”
which was the name of the operation.
To comprehend the matter involving “Project SERPO,” one must understand
the complexity of the United States Government. “Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT”
pertained to the training and relocation of 12 brave United States Military Men
to a foreign alien planet, 42 light years from Earth. I was one person in charge
of a final phase of training. I was one person who knew the operation. I was one
person who knew the names of those involved.
However, I never knew the names of the 12 men sent on that special long distance
mission. The names were classified. The 12 had numbers, three-digit numbers. But
all of the training instructors, mission directors and project managers used
their real names. I would believe that most of the older personnel involved in
this project are dead. But some of us are still alive. I was shocked and
outraged when I first heard about the release.
This must be a Defense Intelligence Agency programmed release. I cannot
believe that the DIA would allow someone to release this sensitive,
highly classified operation without the proper approval. This must be a
segmented release project fully controlled by the DIA. Why? I wouldn’t even wish
to begin to guess the reason. I am awaiting further release of the photographs,
which I know exists because I saw them. There are sixteen books of photographs
retrieved from the Team Members who returned. Only eight men returned.
Two died on the planet and two remained for some unknown reason. Those two did
not wish to return to Earth. But the returning crew brought back thousands of
photographs.
A friend told me about a web site that tells a story of 12 men and women going
on a space journey to an alien planet about 40 light years away from Earth.
Since I am a retired Air Force Major, my friend asked me if I ever heard of such
a story. I told my friend the entire story was just a story with no truth. But I
knew of such a story because I was a key official in this story.
In 1954 while assigned to Briggs Air Base Texas, I was a young lieutenant
in the communications squadron. Six of us went TDY to Holloman to check out a
piece of equipment that was made by a contractor, as we were told. Well, the
equipment was nothing like I had ever seen, nor had the Master Sergeant—assigned
to the team and who had been in the AF for twice the time I was in—ever saw
anything like that.
It looked like a present day computer with a satellite dish attached to the
side. It had a large connecting port for some type of connector that no one was
familiar with. The keyboard had strange symbols. I first thought it was Chinese.
But was told it wasn’t. I couldn’t figure out why a contractor would make such a
piece of equipment that no one could understand. Maybe it was a test or
something. Well, we all failed the test because we couldn’t figure out what it
was. Then three of us—the master sergeant, a technical sergeant and myself—were
chosen for a special team that would try to figure out this equipment. All toll,
there were 15 of us on this special communication team. We spent about four
years total on this project.
We managed to get
the thing working with the assistance of another box that was attached to this
communication thing. About 11 months into this project, we all figured out this
thing came from another planet. When we asked the senior officials, they said,
yes, it came from Mars. Pretty shocking to us that we had life on Mars.
But towards the end of my involvement in this project, I was told it came from a
crashed space alien ship that was found in New Mexico. I asked how they knew it
came from Mars and they told me it wasn’t Mars, but some other planet,
many light years away from Earth. We managed to communicate with these aliens
and we even sent them signals using some language found in this spaceship. In
1964, I left the program and never knew what happened after that. Now I know.
I’m happy [to learn] that our team effort really made a difference.
My father died in 1995. He was retired from the U.S. Air Force. In 1990, he told
me a story about a special mission that he was involved in back in 1965. He told
me that this mission was about 12 military astronauts that went to another
planet in a spaceship that was found in the New Mexico desert.
He said the 12 men were trained at Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, where
he was stationed. He helped train the 12 in space endurance, which he was
trained to do. He said the 12 left in 1965 and came back in 1978 and he was
there to check them after they returned to this planet, Earth. I didn’t know
what to think about my dad’s story. Back then, I just listened to him and
thought maybe he was just making this up. But now, I realize he was telling the
truth. It is too late for my father to know about this, but I know my father was
being truthful to me and that makes me feel good. I look forward to reading more
about this incredible story.
Having been involved with the Defense Intelligence Agency for 35 years, I am
well aware that this project is real. Whether the actual released information
from this “ANONYMOUS” character is correct is another story.
I don’t recall the exact details of the debriefing, but I know there were
thousand of hours of audio recordings done on the old-style military voice
recording tapes. To the best of my knowledge, those tapes are locked up in a
secure vault within DIA headquarters at Bolling Air Force Base, Washington,
D.C.
I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY this information is being released
now. I caution all involved that this might be some “rogue” DIA warrior
that is trying to embarrass the DIA.
I am a retired Army Colonel. I was stationed at the Defense Language Institute (DLA)
in the early ‘50s. My specialty was languages. I spoke five different languages.
I was sent on a temporary duty assignment to the Special Intelligence Center
Ft. Belvoir, Maryland in 1964. When I arrived, I was given a dictaphone
recording of a language. I listened to that language and realized it was
something I had never heard before. It didn’t sound like a language, but more
like pitches and tones created by some device. I was later told
this language was an alien language and that I, along with others, would have to
somehow translate it.
Our team (18 language specialists) worked on this for six months but couldn’t
crack it. I then learned of a special operation mission of 12 astronauts to
an alien planet. The 12 had to learn this language, but it was almost
impossible for us to teach a language like this. We never did learn a single
word and to the best of my knowledge, neither did the astronauts.
I was assigned to Holloman AFB in 1963 to 1966. I remember the famous UFO
landing incident. I was an Air Policeman assigned to the landing location, not
at Holloman AFB, but at White Sands.
I saw the actual landing of the space ship. I saw the aliens get off the
spaceship. I saw the military colonels meet with the aliens. A friend of mine
who was also an AP, was assigned to guard a bus of 12 people. These 12 were to
have gotten on the ship, but for some reason they didn’t go. We were sworn to
keep our mouths shut. We had to sign a security statement saying that if we
violated it, we would be sent to Ft. Leavenworth for life without a trial.
I got out of the U.S. Air Force in 1968 after serving in Vietnam. I guess after
38 years, I feel safe talking about this. I knew most of the 26 Air Force
policeman at the landing site and most have died. But I know of six, including
me, who are still living and know the real story of the landing. Reading this
stuff about Project SERPO puts it all together for me now.
The SERPO Project was real but the story line is not. One must carefully
consider the source, who won’t identify him or herself. Why would someone
release this information now? It wouldn’t be difficult for someone employed by
the DIA to learn of this past project. But it would be almost impossible
to gain access to the information. I believe that someone got a hold of the
basic project information and now is making up the rest of the story.
Most of this stuff is the truth, but the details may be a little exaggerated. I
wouldn’t believe all of it. Sounds like some type of disinformation program to
me. The basic program called “Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT” was right, but it
involved just 12 men [NO women], who were part of the astronaut program, nothing
more or nothing special.
MOST of the released information is truthful. I never saw, nor read the diary.
Maybe the diary contains information from various Team Members, rather than just
the Team Commander.
The final report is contained in a document entitled, “QW.” The title was
classified. The document number is: #80-0398154. Maybe someone should
request a Freedom of Information Release [Act] on that.
________________________________
[MODERATOR’s (VM’s)
NOTE: This conflicts with the original information provided by ANONYMOUS; The
complete debriefing is contained in: “Project SERPO,” Final Report-80HQD893-020,
Classified T/S, Codeword.]
Somebody better go back and dig up the original stuff, Air Force Document:
QW-1980-03-98154.
I cannot believe our government has let this information out! What idiots! This
stuff was supposed to be used to further our technology. The “Project SERPO”
people gave us hundreds of gadgets. We just haven’t figured them all out yet.
Now everyone and their uncle will be snooping into all the secret stuff.
The program was started in 1956. The program was in the Pentagon’s “Office of
Special Missions.” The Commander of the Office was Brigadier Gen Wilbur
Abrams, U.S. Army. To the best of my knowledge, there were two females
involved in the first team.
I was involved in the original program. It started in 1956 and ran until 1964,
when the visitors landed at White Sands. Somebody screwed up because our
Team was ready to go, but the visitors didn’t want to take them. What a screw
up! But we made arrangements for the following year.
Right on, guys, pretty accurate. However, I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes
once this gets to the White House.
8 March 2006
"From that point on, they were identified by number only. Even each Team Member
identified the others by their three-digit number. They were never to use their
real names. Once they left planet Earth and traveled on to Serpo, they gave each
other nicknames. For example, the Team Commander was identified as, "Skipper,"
the medical officers were identified as "Doc-1" and "Doc-2," the pilots were
identified as, "Sky-King" and "Flash-Gordon." Even though it wouldn't make any
difference if they used their real names on Serpo, they were disciplined enough
to continue either using the nicknames or the three-digit numbers."
I just wanted to point out that although most Americans today would be familiar
with Flash Gordon, only older people would be familiar with Sky King.
Sky King was on the radio from 1946 to 1954 and on TV from 1951 to 1959. Reruns
were shown on Saturday afternoons until 1966.
Many men and women became military, commercial, and private pilots as result of
listening to Sky King and Penny on the radio or watching them on TV.
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/sky-king.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_King
http://members.cox.net/skykingtv/skyking.html
http://members.cox.net/skykingtv/skycom.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043232
Most people today
have either never heard of Sky King or have long forgotten about him. However,
it wouldn't be surprising that a young pilot in 1965 would have adopted the
nickname of "Sky King."
9 March 2006
Ref SERPO.
Back in 1985 Ernie Kellerstrass told me an interesting story that while he was assigned to FTD-WP from 1975 to his retirement in 1979 he ran across a very spooked individual in his section or FTD/TQTR which is where I worked starting in 1983. This individual kept saying that we had turned humans over to the Aliens for nefarious reasons. The guy eventually had a nervous breakdown and was moved out of the section. I didn't connect things up until I contacted Rick [Doty] in 1998 who said he knew of the case.
It seems this person
was present at NTS in 1965 and witnessed the exchange taking place. He was later
reassigned to FTD-WP. I don't know how long he had been at FTD before having the
nervous breakdown but it sounded like Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSD)
which can occur years after the event. Also, in below Darren Edmunson mentioned
the 1965 exchange to me in a 2000 e-mail. Both Darren and Paul McGovern knew
Ernie..... Robert Collins
Subject: Re: James Jesus Angleton
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:59:39 EST
Robert,
According to my contacts, Angleton was never a member of MJ12. He might have
been privy to some information from MJ12 but never a member.
Angleton, in 1970, wrote a counterintelligence assessment of the UFO
phenomena In this document, Angleton mentioned the Roswell incident, an
incident in the New Mexican Desert in 1964 and an exchange program between
EBEs and us in 1965 and 1969. This document was entitled, "Assessment
Number 7." I know Rick Doty read this along with some other former gov
employees. Maybe Erni Kellerstrass and Tom Mack. The document was
classified Top Secret, codeword, with limited distribution. I saw the
document while assigned to AF Intel in the late 70s.
Too bad we couldn't get our hands on this document. I'm sure it is tucked
away in some obscure vault with CIA headquarters.
Darren