Note from Stephanie Relfe:

David Icke does not believe in Jesus, and I understand that he does not even believe in God. It is my experience that, while much of his information is HIGHLY valuable, his book “The Biggest Secret” is a little too overwhelming for some people, not necessarily because the information is too hot to handle, but because at the same time that he gives people information which can cause fear, he takes away the very thing which gives many people freedom from fear, and that is their faith in and connection to God and/or Jesus. Most of his information is excellent. I recommend it, as long as this point is kept in mind.

David Icke has become a highly sought-after lecturer, worldwide, and it is no wonder. His books in recent years have covered the full range of topics concerning the so-called "elite" global controllers and their stranglehold on the masses.

His most recent book, titled “The Biggest Secret”, is his most daring work to date. To say that it takes on even more than its title suggests, is still quite an understatement.

On July 8, 1999, I caught up with David, by telephone, in London. While he was recovering from a prolonged bout with a flu bug, and we would have been thankful with just a short interview under the circumstances, I think you will agree with me that he was in fine form during this conversation.

David hits hard on a wide range of topics, some of which will, surely, stretch your beliefs and expand your thinking. This is, literally, a "fasten your seatbelts and hold on to your hat" kind of conversation which captures David's riveting speaking style as best that can be done in print.

If you do not read this interview with an open mind, you will probably just dismiss the entire thing. But as a careful reading of The Biggest Lie [Secret] will reveal, David has definitely done his homework-as usual!

As David told me, he has just done a month in Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, and America. He is now, as I write, in South Africa for a month, then back to America in September. His very controversial video tape with Illuminati mind-control victim Arizona Wilder, is available from Bookworld and elsewhere, but for your convenience The SPECTRUM is also carrying this video Revelations of a Mother Goddess and his newest book The Biggest Secret. (for information about this book "click" HERE)

With all of that said, sit back and read the latest insights from a researcher who has dared to probe into the darkest corners and speak out on some areas that, to-date, seemingly no one, on a global scale, has been willing to touch. It is very appropriate that two of David's other books include: And The Truth Shall Set You Free and The Robot's Rebellion.

We are in a time when personal responsibility is the challenge affecting us all-big time! What if each of us simply made a resolution to follow the three suggestions David makes near the end of his conversation? Sometimes the simplest ideas to put into words are the hardest to truly carry out.

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Part 1

Martin: I'm talking to you at the seat of global power today, namely London. Not only are you located at the seat of power, but there are many horrific and nasty things taking place behind the seemingly respectable old stone walls of those various places.

David Icke: Right, absolutely.

Martin: As our readers are very well versed on the Global Controllers generally, let's cut to the chase with the bad news first and go from there. What is The Biggest Secret, as your new book is so appropriately titled?

David Icke: The 'biggest secret' that's emerging is that back in the ancient world, we can debate when, but certainly you can pick it up around 5,000 B.C., a series of bloodlines emerged, particularly but not exclusively-particularly, really, the focus of power was in the Near and Middle East.

These bloodlines became the leaders and the Royal lines of that ancient Near and Middle Eastern area. This bloodline would appear to go back to an extra-terrestrial intervention which created hybrid bloodlines. This, I think, is referred to in the Old Testament which is, of course, just an edited rewrite of more ancient texts where it talks about the "sons of God" who interbred with the "daughters of men", creating the hybrid line, the Nefilim/Nephilim. When you go back to the Hebrew, the "sons of God" become the "sons of the gods". And so often when you see the translation into the English, the King James version of the Bible, as God in the Old Testament, it actually is translated from the word meaning gods.

And these bloodlines moved over as time went on and became the British and European Aristocracy and Royal Families. The incessant interbreeding between these family lines is not due to snobbery, but their desire to hold a specific genetic structure.

Thanks to-well, let's go back a little. The focus in the ancient world of these bloodlines appears to be in Babylon, and eventually they moved their epicenter to Rome. And it was when they were in Rome, epicentering in Rome, that we had the Great Roman Empire.

This was a key point in the historical expansion of the power of these bloodlines across the planet. Eventually, one of their number, called William of Orange, to whom every surviving Royal Family in Europe is related, was manipulated onto the throne of England in 1689, and he was the one who signed the Charter that created the Bank of England in 1694.

At that point, this group -call it the Illuminati, for want of a better word- these bloodlines, in other words, moved their epicenter at an operational level, because it has other levels all around the world, but at an operational level, the spider in the center of the pyramid became London. And then, of course, as years unfolded, came this key time in the expansion of these bloodlines, the Great British Empire, and as a result of that they were able to move into the Americas, Australia, Africa, and New Zealand. They show up as far as China.

It was said that the Sun never set on the British Empire. Well, when you see the size of Britain, compared with the world-when I was a kid it was a great mystery to me how these small islands you can hardly see on the globe actually had an empire that spanned the world. But now I do understand that it was not the British Empire at all, it was the empire of these bloodlines, that had centered themselves in Britain, which is a very different thing.

Now, what happened, it's increasingly becoming clear, is that these bloodlines then took the positions of power in these countries of the British Empire. But, there are two forms of power. There's overt power, dictatorship - you can see it, feel it, touch it and taste - and they always have a finite life because eventually, when people know they're in a dictatorship, in a prison, they'll rebel against it. The most effective form of control, and this is what happened when the so-called European Empires, like the British Empire, started to roll-back, particularly in this century, they replaced overt in-your-face control with covert control.

And that is the ultimate control, because people do not rebel against not being free when they think they are. And so, what happened as these empires, as the British Empire, rolled-back on the surface, and of course, "Oh, the great British Empire is over, poor old Britain has lost her power", they actually left out in those countries the bloodlines and the secret society networks through which they work and they've gone on running those countries, including not least, in fact, most and emphatically, the United States, ever since it was formed.

And when you look at the genealogy of American Presidents, it is utterly astonishing in support of this. There are about 260 million Americans, at the moment. And if you add up all those who have called themselves American since 1776, it will run into hundreds and hundreds of millions. Well, 42 of those hundreds of millions have actually become President of the United States. You would think, on the law of averages alone, that those 42 would have some tremendous genetic diversity.

Well, they don't. According to Burke's Peerage, the bible of Aristocratic and Royal genealogy based in London, every American election since and including George Washington, in 1789, has been won by the candidate with the most European Royal genes. 33 of the 42 are genetically related to two people: Charlemagne (King), the most famous monarch of what we call France, and Alfred the Great, the King of England. They're the two countries, overwhelmingly, France and Britain, out of which these bloodlines came in Europe.

Now, since The Biggest Secret came out, and I told the story in there of how these bloodlines came out of the Near and Middle East, how the blueprint of control by religion was formed in Babylon, where their Trinity of Nimrod, Tammuz the Sun, and Queen Semiramis the female, there was mirror in terms of the stories of the later Jesus stories, and many other stories in other cultures that relate to exactly the same stories using different heroes, since I wrote in the book that the Gospels were actually written by a Roman Aristocratic family called the Pisos, Piso. Since I wrote in the book that these stories were eventually taken and turned into a religion by, most notably, the Roman Empire, Emperor Constantine the Great, at the Council of Nicacea in 325 A.D., and, of course, what came out of that, eventually, was the Roman Church which became the Christian religion.
 
Since I wrote in the book that one of the key bloodlines that I am identifying is the Merovingian bloodline that came out of the Near and Middle East into France, and, of course, has been widely written about in various books in the recent ten years or so, since I noted that in the book that the British Royal Family, including King George III, were these bloodlines, since all of that, I have, in the last ten days come across the genealogy of the George Bush family, including, of course, George W. Bush, who, surprise, surprise, is being pushed as the year-2000 President.

It only turns out that the Bush family and the Roosevelt family, who are of the same line, are genetically related to Alexander the Great, who, I think it's around 300 B.C., plundered this very area - I'm talking about Egypt, what we call now Israel, down to Babylon and across to India - this whole area I'm talking about, the Bush family and the Roosevelt family are related to him, genetically.

They are related to the Piso family, the Roman aristocratic family who wrote the Gospel stories originally. They're genetically related to Constantine the Great, the Roman Emperor who took those stories and turned it into the Christian religion, in effect, which makes the people who wrote the stories and the person who created the religion, the same bloodline.

They're genetically related to Dagobert, one of the key Merovingian line. Dagobert was said to be one of the last surviving Merovingian line, but that's not correct. The Bush family is also genetically related to George III, who was around when people like Benjamin Franklin were giving the American people the impression they were going to freedom, when actually they were going to covert control by Britain, which they've had ever since.

So when you look - and this is just a few headlines from the Bush line - when you look at the Bush line alone it supports, emphatically, these bloodlines that came out of that ancient Near and Middle Eastern area and have been brought through to be in positions of power, not least today. It is no accident, Rick, that George W. Bush, with that background, genetically, is the one they're bringing through and throwing the money at to become president in the year 2000, which is a key year for them.

So, in effect, what I'm saying is that my research is very strongly pointing to the fact that the extraterrestrials are not coming, they're not going to invade, they've actually been controlling this planet, increasingly, for thousands of years. And when I say extraterrestrials, I don't mean all extraterrestrials, I mean I'm talking about this particular group. And it seems to me that the situation is this, that-oh, the House of Windsor, by the way, are one of these bloodlines, big-time, and they know it-they're related to the Bushs, not surprisingly.

Anyway, it seems that one of the key reasons that they are trying to hold this genetic structure is that this planet is actually controlled not from the physical level, which is just one level of it, but actually from what people call the lower astral, or I call the lower fourth dimension. It is the lower cess-pit end of the dimension closest to this one. And, it seems that, talking to people who have worked on the inside with these people and taken part in their rituals -indeed, in one case, conducted them- these lower fourth-dimensional entities who, of course, the satanic rituals interact with the legendary realm of the folklore demons and all this stuff-that somehow, these particular genetic lines, in their most pure form, have a much greater vibrational resonance and vibrational sympathy with the lower fourth dimension, and therefore, can be much more easily - what we would call - possessed and taken over by these lower fourth-dimensional entities, which kind of means that if you can put these particular bloodlines, the physical body, if you like, in a position of power, you're actually putting these lower fourth-dimensional entities into positions of power, because they're working through these particular lines.

And, again and again, when you get into the genealogy, my goodness me, that takes some time and sweat, you hit the same genetic lines when you're looking at people in positions of power. It seems to me that these lower fourth-dimensional entities have actually been working through what we call the Illuminati to actually control the planet. And, while all this was unfolding, I started getting some very bizarre stories told to me.

Martin: I bet.

David Icke: And the thing about my life, Rick, in the last 10 years or so, consciously walking this journey - I now realize that I was unconsciously doing it all of my life - is that suddenly a subject heading will come into my life, and once it's appeared, I'm meeting people literally from all over the world, because I've been in 21 countries in the last two years now, and been back to quite a few of them, so I can start to see, as a result of traveling, these common themes that are coming up all over the world.

And one theme that came up last year, May '98, it had been around a little bit but I put it on the back burner. There wasn't enough evidence to talk about it, really. And that was that people had seen people in positions of power, not exclusively so, but overwhelmingly so, turn into a reptilian form and then go back to human. And, in a period of 15 days, in May 1998, I met 12 separate people in different parts of America from different walks of life and different backgrounds, in my travels, who told me the same story. I thought, "What in the hell is going on here?!"

When I came back to England, the sequence continued. I was asked by a couple of people, who were members of the House of Lords, in London, to go and talk to them at the House of Lords about the manipulation, which they also realized was going on. And I chatted with them for a while, and there was a lady at the meeting who kept saying some very interesting things about Diana, you know, the Princess of Wales. And after the meeting, I said "Look, hey, we gotta talk."

She said, "We have." And we went off and chatted.

I said, "Where did you get this information about Diana?"

She said, "My best friend was her closest confidant on things she couldn't talk about to anyone else for nine years." Now, this lady has actually appeared in the press from time-to-time as being a close friend of Diana. Anyway, she said, "I think this lady might talk to you. She's never talked to anyone else."

So, I went to see her and her name was Christine Fitzgerald. She starts telling me about the connection, all of the treatment of Diana by the Windsors, which was utterly, utterly outrageous. I haven't talked to this lady Christine Fitzgerald about these bizarre stories I'm being told by people around the world. Then, as the conversation unfolded, she said, "Oh, do you know what Diana's nickname for the Windsors was?"

I said, "No, go on."

She said, "The lizards or the reptiles." And she said, "She used to say, in all seriousness, 'They are NOT human!'"

Christine Fitzgerald went on to tell me: "You know, the Windsors are a reptilian line, they're not human." And that "the British Royal Family, and its inter-linking bloodlines, are actually reptilian, they come from a reptilian extraterrestrial race."

And I'm thinking, "Bloody hell, not another one!"

And I came back here - about an hour and a half from London - my home is in England. I knew of a guy called Ted Heath, who was Prime Minister of Britain from '70-'74, and I knew that he was involved in some serious horrendous things, like sacrificing children, and all this stuff, because of people who had seen it. And, a lady I knew, who had contacted me, wanted to tell me about her experiences with Ted Heath, so I went to see her, not to talk about shape-shifting reptilians, but to talk about Ted Heath and satanic ritual involving the elite of Britain.

And, again, but just as a quick incidental - when you follow these bloodlines from the ancient world to the present day, this satanic ritual, human sacrifice and blood ritual, even using the same deities in the rituals, is a common and constant, unchanging theme. So, it would be very surprising if the elite today weren't into this, because these bloodlines always have been, just like Bush is into it and people like that. Anyway, I went to see this lady and she told me about her experiences with Heath and stuff.

In a place called Burnham Beeches, which is an area of forested land notorious for satanic ritual, among people who have studied these things, it just so happens that, although Burnham Beeches is on the outskirts of London, not far from Heathrow Airport, the place is actually owned by the City of London, the financial district which is the epicenter of this control.

I just finished me cup o' tea - you know how you do in her house - and I was just making my way to leave, after she told me this stuff, and I said to her, just to throw away a line as I left, I said, "You know, I'm having some bizarre things happening to me at the moment." I said, "I keep meeting people who tell me that they've seen people shape-shift into bloody reptiles."

And, honestly, she grabbed her chest and she was gasping for breath like she was having a seizure.

"Oh, my God," she said, "I thought it was only me."

And she went on to tell me that she wasn't going to say that to me because she thought that even I would find that unbelievable. She said, "All that stuff I've told you about Heath and seeing him in the satanic rituals and all that stuff," she said, "I wasn't going to tell you what I also saw. He shape-shifted into a reptilian, during the ritual. What staggered me," she said, "is that none of the other participants were at all phased by it, as if it was a natural thing that always kind of happened."

This has gone on, Rick, to the present day. I was in Vancouver, speaking, and I met about 4 or 5 people who told me the same story, including a business woman, who is a real feet-on-the-ground, you know, power-dressing kind of 5,000 clients business woman. And she said she had this relationship with a guy who was Portuguese, and he just turned into a reptile in front of her.

I had just spoken at a financial conference about the manipulation of the world in the Bahamas, and two people there told me the same story. One told me how she was in a religious cult, and on one occasion, the cult leader changed into a reptile in front of her face.

And she said, what was most amazing is that he focused on her, and the others couldn't see it, but she could, and she said she just went out of the room and started driving and never stopped, really.

You know, this is now hundreds and hundreds of people who I've met from around the world, from many walks of life - a couple of television presenters who interviewed this guy live and, when they went back in the green room one said, "I had a very strange experience during that interview. The guy's face turned into a bloody reptile."

"Oh, my God," said the other, "I saw his hands turn into a reptilian."

And so this is - then you look, of course, at the ancient world, and you start to see constant references to serpents and the serpent race. Not that all references are literal - I mean, there's the serpent symbolism that's used massively - but when you get, like, the Nagas, the gods of the ancient Hindu religion, who were said to be able to take human OR reptilian form.

And then, while this is going on, Rick, I thought, "I'm sure Cathy O'Brien mentioned bloody reptiles in her candid and shocking book, with Mark Phillips, called Trance-formation Of America."

Martin: Yes.

David Icke: I got a copy of that, started flipping through the index, looking for reptiles, thinking, "My life is getting more bizarre by the minute."

Martin: (Laughter)

David Icke: And, I'm going through the references in the book and, of course, Cathy talks in the book about being with George Bush and that George Bush - and she obviously took this to be part of the mind control, she took it to be a holographic image, it was part of the mind control - but when you put this other evidence together, well, hold on a minute.

She talks about being with George Bush, and him saying that they were an extraterrestrial race that came from a "far off space place" who'd taken over the world, and no one realized it because they look human. But, she said, he changed in front of her into a reptile. She talked about being with the Bennett brothers, these politicians, political figures in America, and how they put her through a mind-control program in which they said they came from another dimension and they were inter-dimensional beings.

And she had an experience during that time of seeing a White House cocktail party where everyone turned into bloody reptiles. And then she talks in the book about being with Miguel De La Madrid, in Mexico, who was, of course, President during the Bush years, and how he told her, she said in the book, the story of the Iguana race. And, Miguel De La Madrid said that an extraterrestrial reptilian race had interbred with the ancient Mexican people because they needed to create bloodlines or bodies they could work through, and these particular bloodlines could take either human or reptilian form. She says in the book that he actually shape-shifted, not totally, but facially, into a reptilian form when she was with him.

Now, when you start putting all of this together, Rick - I have simple philosophy - I follow information, and I'll go where it takes me. If you come from, anyone comes from, any belief or background, whether it be religious, political, or whatever, and they are rigid with it, then they're never going to uncover what's going on because that belief, that rigid belief, will start to edit information when it comes toward you, and you start editing-out information that's taking you away and challenging your original belief-system.

I haven't got any of that stuff, fortunately, and so I just follow information, and it's taken me into these areas. Interestingly, too - and I'm just going back there, so I'm going to do some more on this - when I was in South Africa, about February last year, I met a Zulu shaman, a famous Zulu shaman in South Africa. I met with him for about five hours about various things.

He knew about the elite and the manipulation and the extraterrestrial connection, and all this stuff. He's in his 70s now, I mean, he's lived a long time in Africa, and is a very great expert on African legend and stories and experience. And he told me, during this chat, that he got a call in March of 1997 - this is before the August when Diana died - and this caller said that she was the Princess of Wales and wanted to talk to him.

Now, he didn't believe this, at first, and he certainly didn't believe it when she said to him that she was calling him from what, he termed, a supermarket phone. "Princesses don't call from supermarket phones," he thought.

Well, when I talked to Christine Fitzgerald about two months later, her confidant, she said, "That makes absolute sense, because Diana knew that her phones at Kensington Palace were tapped, and when she wanted a clean line, she used to go into a local department store," to what this shaman would have been a supermarket, "to use the public phone to get a clean line."

This shaman told me - and he later realized they had a connection, one of his students was a relative of Diana - and, interestingly, this shaman talks a lot about extraterrestrial connections with humanity and his own extraterrestrial experiences, of which he has had some astonishing ones.

Anyway, she said to him that she wanted to talk to him because she had something to reveal about the Windsors that would shake the world and she wanted advice in how best to do it. (Note from Stephanie Relfe: Is this why they murdered her?). And, talking to a lady who I met after Christine Fitzgerald, a lady called Arizona Wilder, who claims to have conducted rituals for the British Royal Family, that Diana knew that they were actually shape-shifting reptilians who shape-shifted during the rituals and, I said to this shaman, "What was it she wanted to reveal about the Windsors?" And he said, "I can't tell you, it's just too terrible. I don't want to get into any more trouble."

So, I said I knew that Diana knew that the Windsors were involved in the global drug-running operation and she knew that they were involved in that. And he just shook his head.

He said, "Oh, no." He said, "It was much worse than that."

And I'm going back there soon, so I'm going to have another go at finding exactly what it was.

But this Arizona Wilder lady, again, came on the scene after Christine Fitzgerald. I found her in Los Angeles, or near Los Angeles, and I went to see her, not to talk about shape-shifting reptilians, yet again, because I wasn't talking about it at the time; I was just gathering information. I went to talk to her about the rituals she said she conducted for the British Royal Family, and the Bushs, the Kissingers, and people like that in America.

Because Arizona Wilder, even though she's got red hair today, is actually blond haired, with piercing blue eyes. And the blond-haired, blue-eyed thing is fundamentally involved in all of this stuff, and what have you. Anyway, that is why Project Monarch is overwhelmingly, if not exclusively, blond-haired, blue-eyed people.

I went to talk to her about the rituals that she says she conducted. So, we're getting into this stuff, and she's telling me about the rituals at Balmoral in which, you know, human sacrifice takes place in Scottland, the Queen's Palace in Scotland, and also at Glames Castle and the Castle of Darkness, as it's called, in Belgium, which Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler talk about in their book. And I had heard all of this from other sources, I mean, Christine Fitzgerald was talking about the stuff they got up to, but then, as the conversation unfolded, Arizona said to me: "But that's not the most bizarre thing that happened."

And I thought, "Well, how much more bizarre can you get, the Queen of England sacrificing children?" And, she said, when the blood started to flow, they shape-shifted into reptiles.

And, in their reptilian form, they're very, very different - I mean, like, the Queen Mother, this sounds funny, really - but the Queen Mother is an old frail 99-year-old, but that's the physical form in three-dimensional reality. But it's not the physical form of the reptilian that's working through her, according to these people.

And I got a call from a lady in America who is the head of Parents Against Ritual Abuse. And I was talking to her, again, not about shape-shifting reptilians, but about the ritual abuse of children in America, and she said during this conversation, "Do you know, about 12 of my clients have actually reported that, during the rituals, they've seen the participants turn into reptiles." And, she said, "I've always taken it to be that they're dressing up to confuse them."

But when you take all of this together, Rick, all this emerging information, and since I've gone public on it, obviously, in the book, you start to attract people who know they can talk to you, because, you know, the thing that keeps this quiet most of the time is that people who know things and have seen things think, "Well, who's going to believe me?"

And, interestingly - and this is a true story also, and it kind of sums up the way this has been unfolding - when The Biggest Secret was at the printers in January, I got a call in America from a guy, he was just a guy who read my other books, and he said, "Hey, you got a new book coming out?"

I said, "Yeah, it's at the printers now."

He said, "What's it about?"

I said, "Well, you'll have to read it because some of it is so bizarre, if I told you about it, well, you'd think this is crazy."

So anyway, we go on chatting about what you do and where you've been and all this stuff. So then, after about ten or fifteen minutes into this conversation, he says, "Hey, you're going to think I'm mad," he said, "but have you ever come across anyone who has seen people in positions of power, like Bush, Gorbachev, Kissinger, turn into reptiles?"

I thought, "Shit, not another!"

I said, "Well, why do you ask the question?"

He said, "Because I keep seeing this." He said, "When they come on the television, I keep seeing them turn into reptiles."

So, the story has gone on - interestingly, too! I can't remember the exact word now, but I was interviewed on a radio station by the guy who does reverse speech. Have you come across that?

Martin: Yes, I have.

David Icke: Well, he wanted to talk to me about some reverse speech they'd taken from a guy Ken Bacon - do you remember the guy who was the Pentagon spokesman, or White House spokesman - Pentagon spokesman, I think, during the Kosovo war, and they had done some reverse speech on him and said, "Do you know what this means? We can't work it out."

And it was clear as day. He was making a statement about the war to the press, and in reverse it said something like, "We are the people of the snake and we" - something like, I can't remember the exact wording now, I've got it on tape in America, basically -"we are the people of the snake and we look after our own" was basically the theme of what he said, clear as day, and I nearly dropped off the chair.

So, there is something in all of this which holds the key to understanding so much about how the world has been controlled, where this world is actually controlled from, and I would strongly suggest that what we are looking at with the Kissingers and the Bushs and the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds and all these people, are actually the three-dimensional, physical expressions of a lower-fourth-dimensional consciousness and manipulation. And the physical Illuminati are merely the three-dimensional expression of the fourth-dimensional control of planet Earth.

And, interestingly too, when you go back and back and back, and you follow how the White race came out of the Near and Middle East, with these bloodlines within them, and you pick up one of those White races called the Phoenicians - they actually worshipped a guy called, one of their deities was called, St. George, in Cappadocia, who they said defeated the dragon. And because the Phoenicians actually went around 3,000 B.C. to Britain and took what we now call the British culture - which, indeed, in various forms has become the world culture - St. George in Cappadocia (Cappadocia is in what we now call Turkey) became St. George of Britain.

And another deity that the Phoenicians worshipped and took to Britain was St. Michael, who, it was said, of course, threw the serpent into the abyss - or threw the serpent onto the Earth for the final battle and all this stuff. This battling-with-serpents stuff goes on and on.

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