NP: My name is Nick Pope. I’m a serving official with the British Ministry of Defense, which I joined in 1985. I’ve done a number of different tours of duty there, the most relevant of which is from 1991 to 1994, when I was posted to a division called Secretariat Air Staff. My duties there were to research and investigate the UFO phenomenon for the British government.

I received somewhere between two and three hundred UFO reports each year. My job was to evaluate these [and] to come to a decision about whether there was evidence of any threat to the defense of the United Kingdom. After an in-depth investigation, 90-95 percent of those sightings turned out to have prosaic explanations, but we were left with a hard core of sightings, which defied any conventional explanation whatsoever. These were a number of interesting cases involving sightings by military personnel, near misses between UFOs and aircraft, instances where UFOs were tracked on radar, and cases where UFOs were captured on film and video.

Over the years in which the British government has been looking at the UFO phenomenon, there have been numerous cases in which uncorrelated targets have been tracked by military flight controllers and, certainly, on a number of those occasions, military jets were either diverted from task or, indeed, scrambled, to try and intercept these objects — not to engage them in any hostile sense, but merely to close with them to identify them.

Now, on those occasions, I have to say, we have not been successful in our attempts to make an interception. Invariably, we find that the speeds and maneuvers of the UFOs are way ahead of the best things in our inventory, with regard to aircraft. They run rings around us, frankly.

On occasion — when military jets have actually been chasing UFOs to try and get gun camera footage, or to try and close within visual range to get an ID on what the mystery craft is, these things have shown that not only are they capable of phenomenal bursts of speed, but also the capacity to just stop and turn in an instant, raising all sorts of issues about the G-force implicit in such a maneuver — G-forces, which frankly, even with the best G-suit, would be far too much, I think, for any human to survive. That, in itself, raises interesting questions about who’s operating these things.

To pick a few cases to talk about which are particularly impressive, I think one has to perhaps start back in 1956, with a radar visual sighting that took place near the Bentwaters area. Incidentally, this was one of the cases written up in Project Blue Book and judged to be particularly specific. To cut a long story short, there were fighter controllers who picked up a radar target, which was not readily identifiable as one of our own aircraft. So, we simply took a look at that and judged that there was indeed a solid structured craft in the air. It was traveling at a phenomenal speed compared to the envelope, as it were, of our own fighters.

Jets were launched, and, indeed, the pilots did manage to close and get a visual sighting on this object. They just described it as some sort of structured, possibly disk-shaped craft, but frankly, it was just too fast and maneuverable for them to get a really clear view. Again, it ran rings around them. So, that was an interesting example — one of many of these craft displaying speeds and maneuvers which we couldn’t hope to match.

To throw in an example of a [much more] modern sighting and one that I was directly involved in the investigation of [was] on the 30^th and 31^st of March, 1993 [when] a series of UFO encounters took place over Great Britain — the most interesting of which involved an occasion where two air force bases were actually overflown by a large triangular or diamond-shaped UFO. The two establishments involved in this are RAF Cosford and RAF Shorebury, in the Midlands.

At RAF Cosford, this part of the sighting happened in the early hours of the 31^st, about ten past one in the morning. The guard patrol at Cosford saw this UFO fly directly over the base. They, of course, phoned in an immediate report, and found, interestingly, there was nothing showing up on radar at all — even though they had this thing going right over their heads. They phoned, amongst other people, their colleagues at RAF Shorebury, which is about ten or twelve miles down the road. The meteorological officer took the phone call. You have to understand, there is only a skeleton staff at these establishments, so the "Met" officer there took the call, went outside, perhaps just thinking, really, that this was people playing a trick on him.

But, sure enough — in the distance he saw a bright light heading his way. This thing got closer and closer. The way he described it to me, voice shaking with emotion the following morning, was like a massive flat triangular-shaped craft, possibly raised a little bit like a diamond, passing over his head at a height of maybe no more than 200 feet, slightly to one side, emitting a low frequency humming sound, which he said he could not only hear but feel.

Intriguingly, this craft was firing a narrow beam of light down at the fields just beyond the perimeter fence of the military base. He said that this object came toward him at a speed of probably no more than 20 or 30 miles an hour — very slowly.

Suddenly, the light retracted up into the craft and, in an instant, it shot off to the horizon in a matter of seconds. Bear in mind, this is an Air Force officer with eight years experience in the service. He sees aircraft and fast jets every day of his life. He said the speed of this thing was probably about ten times the speed of an Air Force jet. When I asked him to estimate the size of this mystery craft, with typical military precision he said it was probably midway between a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft and a Boeing 747 jumbo jet.

I launched a full investigation into this incident, and in fact, this was one of a series of sightings that took place over the entire country on that particular night, involving not just members of the public, but numerous police officers, particularly in the southwest of England and in Wales, and also in the Midlands. I made all the usual checks. We impounded the radar tapes and had them sent up to the Ministry of Defense main building. We made all the series of checks that we could possibly make — checking for everything from satellite tracks and reentry into the Earth’s orbit of space debris, to astronomical phenomena, meteorites, fireballs, military aircraft exercises, weather balloon launches — however unlikely this was, we checked. That was always the philosophy — you check everything in this business.

We drew a complete blank, and at the end of about a week or so of pretty solid work on this, I put a report up the chain-of-command through my Head of Division to the Assistant Chief of the Air Staff — an Air Vice Marshal Two-Star Air Force Officer. We put this up to him, and we basically said that an uncorrelated target, an unidentified craft — but not just a light or a shape — a structured craft of unknown origin, penetrated what we call the UK ADR, the United Kingdom Air Defense Region.

On that particular night, it flew without being tracked on radar, without any aircraft being launched, and flew with total impunity over two military establishments and over a large part of the rest of the country — and then disappeared, object unexplained. The Assistant Chief of the Air Staff thought long and hard about that. I suppose it was a Catch-22 situation. He simply came back and he said, "It’s a very interesting case, but you’ve clearly run all the checks that you can make. There is frankly nothing more we can do, but it’s fascinating."

Now, I think when that went up the chain-of-command, we certainly changed a few people’s minds there about the whole nature of the UFO phenomenon, and we got, I think, a number of senior civil servants and military officers to really realize that on their watch, as it were, this occurred and was not just nonsense. The UFO phenomenon is not just lights and shapes in the sky. It’s real, it’s solid; it can involve the military as much as anyone else. I think that that remains one of the most significant cases ever to have taken place in Britain, and frankly, it shows — if indeed there is any doubt remaining — the serious defense and national security issues raised by the whole UFO phenomenon.

Over the years, there have been a number of films taken by military aircraft through gun cameras. Now, unfortunately, this film footage does not seem to exist anymore, but one of my predecessors who headed up the division where I worked under its previous title of DS8, that is Defense Secretariat 8, was a man called Ralph Noyes. He is someone who, before his death, also as a Ministry of Defense employee, spoke out publicly about the reality of the UFO phenomenon and made the point to all who would listen that there was a serious phenomenon here, and it did need and deserve serious study. Now, Ralph certainly did see those bits of film footage [gun camera footage of UFOs from military aircraft]. Ralph told me — and indeed, I think his testimony has gone onto the written record as well — that he was called to a briefing of senior Air Force personnel, and that they all gathered around to look at some of this footage that had come after a chase where a military jet had been sent up to try and get a closer look at a UFO. Ralph Noyes told me that he and all these people on the Air Staff just sat around gasping with astonishment — looking, pointing, wondering — but frankly, not able to really take it that much further, except, again, the implicit acknowledgement that there are things operating in our airspace that have better capabilities than we do.

When I say that, of course, I include the point about prototype craft, because one of the points that is often put forward about the UFO phenomenon is the fairly reasonable question: Couldn’t it be that what you are seeing when you talk about structured craft with high speeds and extraordinary maneuvers, is just the next generation of Air Force planes — prototype devices, whether they be aircraft or remotely piloted vehicles?

Well, speaking as a serving member of the Ministry of Defense and having done the UFO job for three years, I can tell anyone who makes that point that yes, of course, at any given time, there are prototype aircraft and devices that we operate, but we know where we operate our own bits of kit. We operate them in very carefully controlled and defined ranges and danger areas, and we do not make mistakes about UFOs and prototypes. We don’t go chasing UFOs if it’s a prototype. We can tell the difference.

So, when the public sees something — who knows? It depends where they see it. But, when we’re talking about military sightings, and when we’re talking about the research and investigation that I did, if I had stumbled onto a prototype test, then "A" I would have known, and "B" if I hadn’t known, I would have been told. And, of course we would have butted out of that pretty quick.

Britain’s most famous UFO case is the Randelsham Forest incident, which is sometimes also referred to as the Bentwaters Case. That involved a series of UFO incidents over a number of nights in December of 1980, involving nominally the Royal Air Force Bases, but in fact, they were operated by the United States Air Force. They were RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge in Suffolk.

Now, in this case, there were a series of encounters where some people saw lights in the sky performing extraordinary maneuvers, but much more significantly, on the first night of activity, people saw a structured metallic craft actually moving — not up in the sky — but right down pretty much at ground level. It was moving through Randelsham Forest, which adjoins the two bases. At one point, this small metallic, roughly triangular-shaped craft seemed to actually come down and land in a particular clearing.

Now, all the witnesses to this are military personnel: they’re trained observers; they don’t make mistakes. Some of the skeptics have suggested that this could have been a mistaken sighting of a nearby lighthouse. That’s nonsense for two reasons: firstly, these were trained military observers who actually were familiar with the lighthouse and saw it pretty much every night of their tour of duty, [and] secondly, certainly at one point in the encounter, the lighthouse was clearly visible at the same time as the UFO. So, this simply could not have been the lighthouse, as the skeptics sometimes suggest.

Although this case predated my own tour of duty by ten years, a little more, I reviewed the case and I looked through the file. I tried to reopen the investigation into this incident. The most important thing that I was able to focus on was, in fact, physical evidence that something had taken place, because after this craft had touched down, people went back in the light of day to the landing site and found that where they’d seen this craft land there were, in fact, three triangular indentations on the forest floor. What I mean by that is there were three indentations which, when you drew lines between them, were pretty much in the shape of a perfect equilateral triangle.

One of the things that was done, was that the area was checked for radiation. This is where I came in. I took the readings that were taken, [and] it’s important to say these readings peaked in two places: they peaked in the indentations themselves, and also [in] some damage that was done to the sides of the trees in the clearing — as if this thing had come down and snapped off some branches and stripped off some bark; as it had done so either coming in or going out.

I sent the figures that had been recorded at the time by Lieutenant Colonel Charles Halt, who was the deputy base commander — himself a witness at some of these incidents. I sent the data from Halt and his team to the Defense Radiological Protection Service, which is part of the Ministry of Defense. They came back to me, and they were frankly bemused by this whole thing, and they said that the radiations from the indentations in the ground were ten times background for that area — ten times what they should have been.

Now of course, it is important to say that the levels were still comparatively low: Halt and his team were not endangered by this. This was still low-level radiation. But again, looking at it from a scientific point of view, that’s not the point. The point is that when compared with control readings immediately outside of the area, you had this peak of ten times normal right where this craft came down on the forest floor.

So, that, I think is extremely significant, because it involved sightings by trained military observers and, also, at one point, this craft was tracked on radar from a nearby base, RAF Watten. So, you had sightings on radar, sightings by trained military personnel, and after the event, in the cold light of day, the undeniable, scientific, methodological evidence of the radiation readings. So, that, by anyone’s standards, has to be an extremely significant event, and proof, I think, beyond all question of doubt, that there was an unknown craft in that particular clearing on that particular night.

I have seen witness statements from the military personnel, and I’ve heard testimony from some of those involved that suggests that much more went on that particular night, than even went into the file that ended up in the Ministry of Defense.

There are also incidents where it’s claimed that UFOs have taken an extreme interest in civilian nuclear power stations, military installations with nuclear assets, etc.

During my tour of duty in Secretariat Air Staff at the Ministry of Defense, I operated a very open policy with regard to the UFO issue. I made it my business to be quite open and honest about the official research and investigation that I was doing, and not to suppress any data on this. I believe that governments and the military, and indeed private researchers, politicians — whoever — should place everything in the public domain on this issue. Governments can’t, I think, have it both ways. You cannot say on the one hand, as the party line often goes, that UFOs are of no defense significance, and then on the other, keep back some of the data.

You simply can’t do that. You have to have it one way, or the other. And if, as governments consistently say when the politicians probe on this issue or when the media inquire, that there’s really nothing to worry about, then okay, let’s see all the data. Let’s check that that decision is a valid one, reached through a proper methodology.

I, in support of that aim, believe that there should be a full disclosure of all information on UFOs held by governments all around the world. I think there are some encouraging signs that that’s beginning to happen. I know, for example, that early in 2000 at a conference in San Marino, which was part sponsored by the Ministry of Tourism there, so it had an official flavor to it, the Italian Air Force actually sent a delegation on duty, in uniform, to talk about UFO cases received by the Italian Air Force and Ministry of Defense over the years. I’m also aware that this has happened in Chile. As I’ve said, my own efforts to try and be very open with this and to push data into the public domain as well, I hope, have taken the issue forward somewhat.

Yes, I am a supporter of total openness and honesty on this issue. Clearly, it’s a very important issue: one that raises important defense and national security issues, but these are not issues that should be addressed by a small clique and any one grouping of people. These are issues of global significance, which should be addressed and debated by everyone. Indeed, we cannot make a full and proper assessment of the phenomenal data we have, without bringing in all sorts of people — scientists, politicians, military experts — in a much wider way than perhaps this information is available now.

I’ve made no secret of the fact that I believe some of these UFOs may well be of extraterrestrial origin. I know that that’s an extraordinary statement for a serving officer in the Ministry of Defense to make. I don’t make it, of course, as an official announcement — it is me speaking in a private capacity — but it is me speaking on the basis of three years official research and investigation; three years of me looking at new sightings coming in, and reviewing the 250 or 300-odd case files held by either the Ministry of Defense or the Public Record Office on the UFO issue, some of which were classified secret at the time. So, I don’t make these statements lightly, and I don’t do so on the basis of a blind leap of faith. I do it on the basis of the data held by government.

It’s important, as well, to say that I am not alone in this assessment; that even within the Ministry of Defense in Britain and at the Air Force and indeed political establishment, I am not a lone voice here. The Ministry of Defense is not a great indivisible organization — like anything else, it is a collection of individuals. So, when you talk about government, the military, and the establishment — whatever grouping you talk about — what you’re really talking about is a group of individuals.

I’ve found that there are skeptics and believers in the world of officialdom, and there are more believers in an extraterrestrial presence than many might expect — particularly in the Air Force. When you go out and speak to the Air Force in Britain, somebody may have had a sighting, somebody may have tracked an uncorrelated target on radar, or [have seen] it do maneuvers that we couldn’t possibly match. Either somebody has had these experiences themselves, or knows of somebody — a friend, a colleague — who’s had the same thing.

At the beginning of my tour of duty, I did make some effort to establish a dialogue with opposite numbers, particularly in America. I was given the party line, I guess, that officially the Americans had been out of UFO investigations since 1969, when Project Blue Book was closed down. I didn’t, frankly, have time to follow that up and probe deeper.

SG: How much assistance did your investigations receive from, for example, the NSA facility at Menwith Hill or the National Reconnaissance Office satellite programs that do reconnaissance? Did you receive any confirmations from those entities or assistance from those entities?

NP: I don’t want to talk, I’m afraid, about any liaison with certain agencies on this. All I will say, in very general terms, is that if I had a particularly interesting case on which I felt I needed assistance from any other agency, with any other capability or bit of hardware, then, I would ask through channels. But really, most of the UFO cases that came my way I was happy with the assets that I had, and really did day-to-day research and investigation using national assets such as the UK Air Defense Region radar stations, the ballistic missile early warning center at RAF Filingdales, and such like. I don’t want to go much further than that.

Suffice to say that there have been a steady stream, over the years, of good-quality cases which I think would convince any open-minded observer who actually looked at the data, that there was something here which went significantly further than just lights in the sky. And something which, whatever the claims that are sometimes made about this phenomenon, suggests that something of extreme defense significance is happening, not just in UK airspace, but indeed I think, in airspace all around the world.

In Britain, at the Public Record Office at present, there are about thirty UFO files open to the public. In total, I believe, there are between around about 250 and 300 files. Some of those were classified secret; now, of course, [are] declassified. Britain will get its Freedom of Information Act shortly. I hope and believe that most, if not all, of the British government and military UFO files will soon be released.

What there is, however, is a body of evidence which when placed end to end and looked at by any dispassionate observer with any military or scientific experience, will constitute proof of the reality of this phenomenon.

One important fact about the British wave of sightings in March, 1993, was that it happened three years to the very night after the wave of sightings that rocked the establishment in Belgium, and led to the scrambling of F-16s. That, again, was late on the 30^th and in the early hours of the 31^st of March. So, it’s one of those very interesting facts that perhaps two of Europe’s most significant UFO waves actually happened on the very same night of the year, three years apart.

Although it predated my involvement, one of the most significant waves of sighting in Europe took place over Belgium in March of 1990. On that occasion, UFOs were seen by large numbers of people on the ground, and tracked on radar, resulting in two F-16 fighter interceptors being scrambled. These aircraft then picked up the UFOs themselves on their airborne radar, and an intriguing game of cat and mouse played itself out in the skies of Belgium over the next hour or so.

Although that happened before I was posted into Secretariat Air Staff, I made contact with the British air attaché in Brussels. I asked him, really for my own peace of mind and for my own background research, to confirm the reality of that. He had certainly spoken directly to one or both of the F-16 pilots and to the senior military officer involved in this, Colonel DeBrouer. And certainly the word that came back to me officially, via our embassy, was yes, this incident happened pretty much as reported.

Yes, there was a solid-structured craft there, which made some maneuvers way ahead of the F-16s. And as a sort of unofficial aside, there was a comment going around the Belgian Air Staff, which was to the effect of, "Thank goodness they were friendly."

The following day they took tests on the ground where it had been and found radioactive traces; they reported this. Colonel Halt wrote a memorandum, which was sent to our Ministry of Defense. He has appeared on British television at least once, to my knowledge — possibly more often — in which he has repeated, effectively, what he said in that memorandum. What he said is what I have just described. That is one explanation — that it actually happened as Colonel Halt reported.

The other explanation is that it didn’t. In that case, one is bound to assume that Colonel Halt and all his men were hallucinating. My position is perfectly clear — either of those explanations is of the utmost defense interest. It has been reported and claimed — and I, myself, have raised it to ministers at the Defense Ministry in this country — that nothing they have been informed about regarding UFOs is of defense interest. Surely, to any sensible person, either of those explanations cannot fail to be of defense interest. That the Colonel of an American Air Force Base in Suffolk and his military men are hallucinating when there are nuclear-armed aircraft on the base — this must be of defense interest.

And, if indeed what he says took place, did take place — and why on Earth should he make it up — then, surely, the entry of a vehicle from outer space (and certainly not manmade) to a defense base in this country also cannot fail to be of defense interest. It simply isn’t any good for our ministers — and the Ministry of Defense in particular — to say that nothing took place that December night in Suffolk, or that it is not of defense interest. It simply isn’t true.

Since my name has become connected with UFO matters in quite a big way in this country, and in one or two other countries too, I have frequently been asked why a person of my background — a former Chief of the Defense Staff, a former Chairman of the NATO Military Committee — why I think there is a cover-up, or what the reasons may be for government’s wishing to cover up the facts about UFOs. A number of explanations have often been put forward. The most frequent, and perhaps the most plausible, is the government’s concern (which [is] primarily that of the United States, and that of my own country) over the public’s reaction if they [were] told the truth — which is that there are objects in our atmosphere which are technically miles in advance of anything that we can deploy, that we have no means of stopping them coming here, and that we have no defense against them, should they be hostile.

I believe governments fear that if they did disclose those facts, people would panic: people would rush about and jam switchboards like they did that famous day in New Jersey, when there was a spoof that the Martians [had] landed — people will go mad, and they will jump up and down. I don’t believe that at all — I’ve said so in print. I do not believe that people today, in the 21^st century, are going to panic at that sort of information. After all, they have put up with the introduction of nuclear weapons and the destruction of two Japanese cities 50 years ago. They take as a matter of course that we can land vehicles on Mars — land to the precise instant, forecast years before. So why should they panic? They are much more interested in doing the pools or the lottery. They would shrug their shoulders and take it as a matter of course. Anyway, they don’t trust politicians, in my experience.

What I’d like to say is that there is a serious possibility that we are being visited — and have been visited for many years — by people from outer space, from other civilizations; that it behooves us to find out who they are, where they come from, and what they want. This should be the subject of rigorous scientific investigation, and not the subject of rubbishing by tabloid newspapers.

It seems to me that the Bentwaters incident is a classic case where an apparent intrusion into our airspace — and indeed, a landing in our country — occurred, which was witnessed by serious-minded people in the military — responsible people, doing a responsible job. And, Bentwaters is, in a sense, a benchmark for how not to deal with these matters in the future.

LW: My name is Larry Warren. In December of 1980, I was assigned to the 81^st Tactical Fighter Wing in Suffolk, East Anglia, at the NATO Air Base Bentwaters, which is next to Woodbridge. I was a security specialist and worked with securing the nuclear arsenal we secretly housed there at that time.

On December 11^th, 1980, my security clearance notice, PRP, came through and I was approved. My clearance was a secret clearance at that time.

The UFO incident took place near Woodbridge, which is our sister base, six miles [away] and separated [from Bentwaters] by a pine forest known as Rendlesham Forest. I was into my second week on the flight line, working the night shift.

We had just come off a break. The previous flight, C-flight, had a UFO encounter on Boxing Day [the first weekday after Christmas] morning, early in the hours — two nights before my event. A security policeman named John Burroughs and an Airman Parker were at the East Gate at Woodbridge. Airman Burroughs saw what appeared to be an object in the forest at the east end of the runway, just within the trees. There were multi-colored lights, and he suspected maybe an aircraft had crashed. He called in Central Security Control on Bentwaters and reported what he was seeing. A shift supervisor named Jim Penniston responded — he was a Staff Sergeant — [and] a few other personnel arrived.

I wasn’t involved in this, but this is what I know of it: they pursued the phenomena into the woods — they definitely thought there was an air crash, and started to begin those procedures…

They found that it was not an aircraft, but a triangular object about six feet at the base, that rose to a nine-foot point. It was black like glass, with a great density to it. They didn’t know if it was on a tripod or on legs of some sort, but it had multi-color lights around it. I do know this — based on his own testimony — that Sergeant Penniston and these men did bring their side-arms, which are 38-calibers that the law enforcement people carried. Sergeant Penniston drew his revolver when they encountered this object and saw clearly that it wasn’t anything they were familiar with. These are all highly trained observers — as we all were at that time — for aircraft or unusual things. Sergeant Penniston drew his revolver and aimed it at the object.

At some point he approached this [phenomenon], very close to it, and observed a panel on its side with some sort of language similar to hieroglyphics. It was somewhat familiar to him, but he couldn’t identify the script. It was raised from the surface; he touched it and felt the surface — it felt warm to a degree, and [was] the texture of glass, almost — the consistency and hardness. They sensed there was movement within, through this opaque kind of glass. Sergeant Penniston heard a voice. These men had four hours of missing time [and] their radio communication had failed with the base. Luckily enough, some other personnel obviously did respond to see what was happening with these people — and some brought cameras and snapped some photos.

These men were debriefed the next morning. They were retrieved, dazed, [from] the forest; they made statements immediately. They were given injections of what they were told was sodium-pentathol by some element of the Air Force.

Airman Burroughs told me directly that he knew within the next two days that this phenomenon was going to return — and it indeed did. Their shift had ended that day; my shift came on.

There was evidence left by this encounter — pod indentations on the ground. The British Suffolk Constabulary responded to this the next morning, because it was an incident. It was reported to them from the Base Security Police Operations desk. Col. Charles Halt can explain this very accurately, because he was present on-site for the investigation. These pods were in a perfect nine-foot separation, forming a triangle. It represented something [weighing] two and one-half metric tons sitting down on the ground. There was a break in the canopy of the Corsican pines where something clearly came through it. There were background radiation readings taken, and Nick Pope can actually offer some more information on this via the Ministry of Defense.

The readings were 25 times higher than the normal natural background radiation in that area. How these readings came up, is that Sergeant Nevels, who was the disaster preparedness man at the base at the time, had the Geiger counters and knew how to read them. These readings were taken from this ground-zero area — there was residual radiation on the trees and everything.

I was put on a very remote post at the end of the RAF Bentwaters flight line, called Perimeter Post 18; it was an alert-man position. I went to my position. It was uneventful for about an hour and one-half. What I noticed first, was an animal disturbance where some deer ran down to a rather low fence we had at that time surrounding the base. This herd of deer jumped the fence and ran past my position, right over the runway. They seemed spooked, or I had that feeling.

Suddenly, I started to hear chatter on the open frequencies. We had Motorola radios at that time. We had four channels of security police and operational active channels. I started to hear commentary about lights over the forest toward Woodbridge: "Those lights are back again," and I was looking up. Suddenly, at this point I [got] a call from Lieutenant Bruce Englund, who is a security police officer. He was the shift commander at that time, and said, "Warren, deactivate your post. You are going to be picked up by a GOV," which is government-operated vehicle. A truck pulled up and Sergeant Bustinza, who [was] my reporting officer, was the driver. Lieutenant Englund was in the passenger seat, and there were other personnel — new personnel like me — in the back. I was told to get in. We went immediately to the Bentwaters motor pool. There was a lot of chatter about people trying to find the Base CO [Commanding Officer], and they were saying, "Change frequencies, put all the radios down." All of this, I must tell you, was recorded in CSC on the tapes they made of that night. Those were stolen, and so were the logs of that period — [Col.] Charles Halt can confirm this, also. They came up missing in a few days when he went looking — that list of personnel on duty and a lot of different things: incident reports and everything. They were gone…

We had our NATO rounds in the weaponry, which is very unusual, and there was an urgency among senior people. We went down a logging trail into the forest, and there was an armored vehicle after [we got] about a half a mile into the woods. I haven’t talked about this in a while, because I wrote it and thought I’d never have to... The feeling in the forest was very strange. Movement was odd. Perception was odd the minute we entered the forest. I will tell you this — there was a problem. Something was wrong. We pulled up. There were some other vehicles. They took our weapons off us. We broke up into four man units and headed down a trail into the forest. [Col.] Charles Halt was out there that night with a smaller party of senior people. Lieutenant Englund joined them at one point. There was a lot of radio contact, but we had to maintain radio silence — the lower ranking guys. But, I could hear on other open channels [the others] saying, "You guys coming in have to avoid those hotspots. We don’t want you walking all over them." I think they had anticipated these objects returning.

Sergeant Burroughs, by the way — from the first night — knew it was coming back, and arrived at the field, off-duty, in civilian clothes, obsessed to get back near the [phenomenon].

You can hear on the actual tape [Col.] Charles Halt made that night: one of the people on the perimeter securing an access to the forest, calling [Col.] Charles Halt on the radio, saying, "Airman Burroughs and two other individuals wish to rendezvous at your location." And [Col.] Charles Halt responds, "Tell them negative at this time; we’ll tell them when they can come out here. We don’t want anyone out here right now." This tape you will have, and [it] should be heard by all interested parties.

What I saw — I wish it was much simpler than what it was. As we moved through this forest in this small group, I was with Sergeant Bustinza; Robert Ball was there, shift supervisor, and a lot of other people. We came to a clearing called Capel Green at the end of the Corsican pines, and there was a phenomenon on the ground in this field: it was like a mist; it looked like a fog on the ground. There was a cinematic film camera — a movie camera — present, and there was a very large video camera there — they were very large at that time. These came from public affairs on Bentwaters. There was anticipation of the return of the [phenomenon]. There is a trail on this film, which has been established; this isn’t just me talking. Anything I’m telling you can pretty much be backed up in any court of law — especially with the body of the evidence, and I’m willing to do that.

I was observing this — it was like watching a movie. This mist was on the ground and it was being observed. There was disaster preparedness present. There was a house off to the left, a farmer’s house. I had never been out in this forest before. There was a light on in this house, so those people were home. There was a dog barking, I remember clearly. I saw a light come in. We could see the beam of the Orford Lighthouse in this clearing, by the way — very clearly. This case has been written off as a misidentification of this lighthouse — an exaggeration, or whatever. In reality, it has been there for over 100 years and was no surprise to anyone. This object, a red basketball-shaped object, came in from the North Sea area over the trees. I thought it was a taillight on an aircraft, but it moved so quickly. The mist on the ground appeared to have structure, and it was 50 feet across. This basketball-sized amber light didn’t seem solid — I couldn’t tell you what it was — but it was 20 feet above the object, this mist. As soon as I got a fix on that and everyone else did, the cameras were upon it — these people were reacting. Then there was an explosion — it’s very hard for me to describe it: this thing broke up into multiple shards of extremely bright light!

I, and others, suffered burns to the eyes — I have documents of this, because I stole them from Bentwaters when an officer advised me to. He said, "Your military record is going to vaporize as soon as you are gone." So my eyes were damaged — flash burns to the retinas and all. This is established medically — it was as if I’d stared at an arc welder’s torch for about 10 minutes, which is unadvisable. Everything was very bizarre at that point.

This explosion of light was very silent, and where the explosion of light happened, there appeared a structured, solid object, rather large — probably 30 feet at the base, to a pyramid-type shape. It was very rough — it would distort if you looked at it, with a rainbow-like effect. And yet, through peripheral vision, you could get a clear fix. I will tell you, there is real evidence for this thing — where it sat — to this day. This one won’t let anyone down — this case — believe me!

This thing was there, on the ground — and it was filmed, and it was photographed.

There were some British bobbies present on Charles Halt’s tape. You hear the Suffolk Constabulary pull up in the forest, with their British police vehicle, because their siren was on for a bit. These police are unattainable — they won’t talk to anyone. They had a camera, and one was taken off of the British police. Already, an international incident was brewing here.

Our Wing Commander, Gordon Williams — who was at a party, I believe, that night — arrived on-site with other senior people. There were British military present. They could have been at the party. And, I will say, they seemed to know how to deal with an event like this.

I have no recollection of any sound emitting from this object. It was almost like a mirage, and yet, I know it was solid because it left traces and evidence and all, but it was so beyond anything I have ever seen, and it [was] right in front of us. I was only 30 feet away from it at one point — too close.

There was a life form in association with it — so I can just cut to the chase: I remember thinking, what are these children doing here? And the mind starts scrambling. There was a bright light, and there was movement. These things had an upper body, I clearly saw, and when I saw an arm move — my, you know — you just, you are in another place at that point. And, these senior people were very close to that [phenomenon].

What I saw was on the right side of this bizarre machine: this bright light moved out, and it was bluish-gold and about a foot off the ground. It split — it was only about four feet in height from the ground up, but it split away — and three individual, oblong cocoons of light with these three individual people in [them], were there.

SG: But they looked like humans?

LW: They were humanoid. Yeah.

SG: Do you know the height of them?

LW: Yeah, they would have been about, in height, four feet. I mean, you think of children. The light diminished, and that’s when you could see what was in it. They were hairless, but there was clothing. There was an apparatus attached — I can’t describe — a dark thing. I could not see the lower extremities because of the light — these were not walking on the ground — these things. And, I wish I never saw this, but there was a white membrane around what are large eyes — and the white membrane was moving, adapting. It was like your eyes adjusting to light.

The Commander was there — and this is where I swear there’s got to be a protocol, in the event of something like this. He moved forward, and at that point we were called out of the area by rank. In fact, a lot of lower-ranking people were involved in this, and [were] sent back to the vehicles. On our way back, there was a lot of phenomena in the forest. These light beings, or whatever, were there; and there were other craft around, above the trees, almost as if they were guarding this thing and backing it up. I will tell you that Airman Burroughs was in the parking area where all the vehicles were. They would not let him out to the sites.

Charles Halt was pursuing other light phenomena and had beams fired down to the ground right in front of him — literally — pencil-sized beams from these crescent-like objects. Col. Halt was making a tape recording as it all happened — four hours of audio; you’ve got 18 minutes of dynamite!

My event was happening about a half a mile away. In fact, on that tape, you hear the beginning of my event. I will clarify this: I was on the record long before the whole tape became public, and I was the one that made the whole tape go public. I turned it over to CNN — and I’ve never taken a penny for anything I’ve done with this, ever. I never have.

As we left, Airman Burroughs told me another object appeared — right in the midst of a lot of security personnel at the parking area where all the trucks [were]. It appeared right in the midst of them. Airman Burroughs grabbed this object, and it moved over the ground — ten meters — with him holding onto it! It’s an absolute fact: he physically touched it! He moved with this thing on it. It took off. It got away from John…Another beam of light came down. There was one guy, a part of the security personnel, in a pick-up truck. This thing was following him — one of these beings and the light — literally following him. He jumped into the pick-up truck, slammed the door, and it passed through the glass right in front of him, and he freaked and kicked the windscreen right out of the truck! This thing went out the other window. I know this person — this was happening in front of many people too! It went out the other window, which was rolled-up because it’s December. As he turned away from the vehicle, a blue beam of light came down from above the trees, and this thing got on it and ran right up into something that was dark and looked like a pinecone with white pins of light on it. It was dark against the night sky, and was watching over this event. Another Officer has said that he felt that these objects had been there looking for something. They were conducting grid searches the night before. There were three nights of activity.

They were there for a reason, and it was kind of like, okay, we are here for a purpose; you guys are bothering us, so we are going to show you what you need to know — but we are going to accomplish what we need to do.

I will tell you that [Col.] Charles Halt said to me later, "Were you aware that on that night, there were three massive triangular objects over the base, over the forest, and over the Woodbridge base the whole time?" And there was missing time with so many personnel over this period — it was amazing.

Afterwards, I noticed I had a shock of gray hair that did fall out — literally, a shock of gray hair on the right side. My eyes were watering profusely. I had a metallic taste in my mouth, and I was sweating profusely, and had cold chills.

I decided: I’m going to go call my mother, but we had secured phones on the base, obviously. Being rather young and naïve, I didn’t pay attention to the COMSEC rules: communication security. We had a phone where I knew they’d always listened in on your calls, so I went to a public phone box (when they used to have them here on the base) and reversed the charges to my Mom. I said, Mom, you won’t believe this. I said, last night a UFO landed on the base, and we saw everything, and you wouldn’t believe it! And, I’m just thinking, she’s not responding: Mom? Mom? She’s gone. I looked at Greg [a friend with me] and I go, oh my God, I got cut-off! I called the operator, and I said, listen, can you reconnect me? She goes, "Are you calling from the base?" I go, yeah. She goes, "I’m sorry, you were cut off from the base," and then she hung up on me. I looked at Greg, and said, man, I think I’m in trouble. So, we ran back to my dorm.

[Before I called my mother] we were called to the office. Malcolm Zickler, a Major, was the Chief of Security Police, and his underling Major Carl Drury — all were involved in one aspect or another with these events. There was a Jaguar outside the office, and there was another expensive car — I don’t remember what it was now. I thought, oh, here we go — the debriefing. Well, first of all, there were all the lower-ranking guys. There were no people above sergeant in my group. We were debriefed in a compartmentalized way, which I understand now, but then I didn’t. And, I said, oh my God, they are going to tell us to shut-up; I know it! I’ll name names. There were people in plain clothes going in and out of the security police law enforcement desk, and that was unusual. And, I’m like, oh boy!

They said, "Did any of you retrieve or remove anything from the forest while you were in there? Anything — a rock, twig, anything?" They kept asking us over and over. And, they said, "If you have, and are not going to tell us now, you are subject to the UCMJ," all these rules: Article XV, beyond that, JL-11, everything. We were young; we were all new — we were like, oh my God, we haven’t even started here, and we are in trouble. We were gone over with a Geiger counter, and there was one return on one of the guys, and something was taken out of his pocket. This guy was removed very quickly, and I will swear on my life — I never saw him again! He was removed. This happened to a lot of people. It led to a suicide that the Air Force is responsible for — this is a real person with a real name. That base, by the way, after that, eventually had the highest rate of suicide in NATO — this is an established fact. One of the Captains involved was found hanging in his back garden from a tree — married, with children — everything. All these people started to shoot and kill themselves. I’ve lived it — and I’m amazed I got out of there alive.

So, we were brought into the office. There were rows of seats, a very small law enforcement desk. The law enforcement operators that day were kept out of the office. Everything was different on that base now. We were brought in and there were sheets on top of the law enforcement desk. There were about 10 of us, and there were one, two, three, four, five, six, seven stacks of documents — pre-typed. One was a pre-typed statement, all generic, of what we saw — which was not what we saw. It said we were off-duty and saw only unknown lights flipping amongst the trees. I clearly remember that. I said, what if we don’t sign this, Major Zickler? And, he [said], "You have no choice." And he [said], "I have no choice but to ask you to do this." I kept seeing these other personnel in his office, because we were heading there next. He [told us to] sign — I think there were four — documents. One was the UCMJ secrecy thing — I forget, JANAP-1-something — and that clearly said, JANAP. But, there were other things that we couldn’t read. They said, "You’ll be able to read them later; put your signature on; social security number." Then we were filed into his office. There was a movie screen set-up. There were two rows of chairs, metal chairs, folded out. Major Zickler left, and there were two gentlemen in civilian clothes — big people, very business-looking: American. They had a plastic ID with a photo and it said Armed Forces Security Services. I don’t know if that’s Air Force — we have been told that is a field arm of the National Security Agency. They were intimidating people.

They didn’t smile or anything. We were in uniform — they asked us specifically to wear the uniforms we were wearing in the field. I think that was for the Geiger counter thing.

So we sat down, and a Naval Commander from the U.S. Navy ONI [Office of Naval Intelligence] in London, named Commander Richardson, was there. He had the reins. He was in uniform and was very affable with us.

Basically, it went like this: I am sitting next to a friend of mine from Alabama, who we called Alabama. Alabama was religious — at this point, he was so unwrapped...He had a handheld Bible and was reading it. He was gone. And being so young, at 19, the human condition isn’t apparent to a lot of people — people’s pain and trauma — but I was watching this guy I knew melting down — next to me. He is one guy that didn’t make it — and he is a name, and he had a family, and everything. They didn’t care about that.

But what Commander Richardson did say is that — we were all numb, but this is very clear — in a nutshell, "You airmen have been exposed to something that we have known about for longer than any one of you in this room are aware of." And it was all matter-of-fact. He said, "There is a phenomenon that has been coming here for many, many years. Some of it comes and goes; some of it is a permanent presence." They didn’t say a phenomenon, they said various civilizations — advanced civilizations. And, there was a lot of talk about the reasons for secrecy — national security. He said, "You’re best to go on with your lives." One of the guys in the room said, "What if we say something?" And he goes, "Know this now — your mail and phones will be monitored for as long as you are in the military." He said, "The best way to go about it is not discussing this with anyone, even each other, from this point on. Go about your lives; forget about all this. Move on with your lives, with the knowing that you have seen something that few people will ever get to see." Every other word was loyalty to national security, our oath, serving the country — it was brainwashing, because all-of-a-sudden it was repetitive lines, and there was a drone to his voice.

Then they showed a film. They said, "We are going to show you a film that might help you best put into perspective what you gentlemen have witnessed, and help you, maybe, put it to bed a little bit for yourselves." We were also told, though, if any of us [had] any unusual dreams, there’s a number we were to call, daily, for the next month. If anyone was trying to pry information out of us we were to let [the authorities] know. They said that there would be a possibility of Soviet infiltration of the area — to try to get information from us. At that time, it was the Cold War, and they said [to] be aware of anything; we were to report that immediately.

They ran the film — I mean, it was just a film on a reel — it was not narrated; he did not narrate it. It began with gun camera footage [from] what I can only assume [was] maybe the 1940s. It showed some propeller-driven aircraft in broad daylight. It looked like the Florida Keys, and a fleet of silver discs [went] under the aircraft. That was one of the first frames. [The] clip [changed]. This thing went all the way up to the space program. The best clip on it showed the berets of the 5^th Special Forces in Vietnam on a red clay hill [with] low scrub brush and a guy with a camera…I don’t even know the year, but it was in color. He turns the camera and this giant, green, delta-shaped thing rises out of the brush, very slowly and deliberately, below where they are, up to face level, camera level, and then continues — but, shrubbery and brush is falling off this massive thing, and a flock of big pelicans or (other] birds goes right under it — I’ll never forget that in my life! I remember that better than the incident in the field.

The space program: I swear to God, this film showed structures on the moon — these box kind of things — that looked sand-colored.

It showed that lunar car moving around. I remember those clearly, because I remember being a child when all that was happening. Then — at a distance — the astronauts pointing at these box-looking things, and structured objects moving off the surface of the moon — filmed by Apollo missions.

SG: What did the structures on the moon look like? What shape were they?

LW: The structures looked like a continuation of the color of the moon, but there was structure to it. Like, huge box-kinds of things — very square and angular structures without windows. But they were artificial, clearly, and, they were being filmed; and then, there were lights and weird things on top of hills.

SG: Are they in good condition or old?

LW: Oh, no — they looked pristine.

SG: And were the UFOs moving?

LW: Very clearly, in different scenes. A lot of it was with the lunar car — that mission. Some of it was the astronauts on space walks, and something dark coming right up near them, with points of red light. I remember that. All of this was very quick. They never showed it again. The Apollo mission is the era where it ended.

So, after this meeting, and calling my mother and getting cut-off, I knew I was in trouble. I was called to the communications section of Bentwaters. I knew what was coming. A Staff Sergeant was there, and the Captain debriefed me. I was asked questions. There was a reel-to-reel tape machine present in the debriefing, and they kept asking me, "Have you given sensitive information out over land lines?" Over, and over. And, I said, no, no. And they said, "Do you want to go with that?" And I said, yes. I was lying through my teeth. And they played the tape — here’s me, ‘Hi Mom, you’ll never believe…’ They said, "Warren, you have to understand, every phone on this base is monitored all the time anyway." I was told that I was not given an Article XV because that is traceable. I would be fined $300.00, and if I caused any more trouble, I’d lose my stripes. There is a paper trail on that fine, and no explanation. Later, I was threatened with the IRS and everything. Madness. They are crazy. The machine is crazy.

Later, we were eating, and Sergeant Penniston was sitting right there. Someone asked me, "What the hell happened to us last night?" And, Sergeant Penniston, who was senior, he goes, "Shut the fuck up, Warren, shut the fuck up." Just like that. I was like this: oh my God, and I threw my tray down and just walked out. It was all downhill from there, my friend.

Later that night, Sergeant Bustinza, myself — and I swear it happened to others — received a phone call to meet a vehicle in the parking lot. Sergeant Bustinza and I were to meet this vehicle at 5:00 p.m. that afternoon. It was dark at that point in England. We both walked up. I said, hi, Busty, how you doing? He goes, "All right." And, we both walked toward this vehicle. The door was open. There was a guy sitting there. In reality, what happened is, two people came up behind each of us — and I do remember someone heading towards him — and I heard the sound of what sounded like an aerosol, and I went black. My conscious memory for years was that the interior lights in the car were too bright, and I just blacked out. In reality, we were hit with an aerosol of some sort. My nose ran profusely, and my chest got tight. I, obviously, was not getting into the car properly, so I was beaten — literally hit in the ribs and pushed. I was resisting, and I know Sergeant Bustinza was doing the same thing.

I had identified myself as a problem. It turns out, years later, that he had made some phone calls too. We were taken somewhere on the Bentwaters flight line. I knew this by the sound of where we went. When I was removed from that car, I cut my face, because I fell out of it — obviously, being immobile — and hit a patch of concrete and ice, and was carried, literally — bodily, face down. I remember my nose running so profusely, and I couldn’t wipe it or anything. I didn’t know if it was bleeding or what. I know we descended. I will tell you there is an underground facility on that base that is — to this day — there.

I have more memories of it being a very clinical situation. We do know, at this time, a lot of outside people were on the base. There were teams in the forest. Aircraft came into Woodbridge, and even the commanders of the base had no access to get near it, or ask why they were there. Teams in white coveralls were going throughout the forest. There were Intelligence people on the base that were never there before. These are all things that can be established as fact, from many other people.

Anyway, I have 20 minutes of recall, and I’m gone for a day — and, it’s established with other people. People said I was on emergency leave, or on leave, or off the base — but I was just under the base — and there were other personnel down there.

There was a lot of high tech machinery, huge vaulted, glass-like ceilings, panels of glass walls — like a subway wall — old, but huge glass panels. We were brought to one area, and I have a conscious memory, whether it is real or not, of looking into a very dark void, and having someone to this side of me explaining that there were tunnels from the base to the North Sea.

My next conscious memory is just broad daylight — walking out into the sunshine from the base photographic lab. A lot of younger guys and I went through this. I do remember being on a table and seeing Air Force senior people, and some other unidentified people, talking down to me. I know I was looking up at them with bright lights. I had marks, by the way, from an IV, or something, when I came out of there. I had the bruise and I had a bandage. I will admit that. That’s for real. I had it. I’m terrified to know or think of what might have happened, so I’ve only pursued these memories a little bit.

I wrote my Mother a letter, and I wrote the letter a week and a half before Charles Halt authored the actual Halt memo, which was gained by the Freedom of Information Act. It is a document that reads like science fiction on Air Force letterhead. It’s a minimizing of the event — I believe, intentional — but it reads like science fiction. It was released in 1983 through Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, based on information I supplied them, after numerous denials that it existed from the Air Force itself.

Pod casts were made of the indentations where the object landed on the first night. Charles Halt still has possession of one of them, and does show people this, and would show it to any congressional body, I think. Most of them ended up missing. Soil analysis was done on the landing site, but it was all swept away. Years later, from 1988 to 1990, we did core samples, soil analysis, which was analyzed by Springborn Environmental Labs in Massachusetts by accredited scientists. We have the published findings in the book Left at East Gate. An absolute [phenomenon] took place only in that spot — to a level of three feet down. Plants do not grow in this one spot — no matter what crop — we’ve talked to the farmers — for 20 years. However, the soil is darker. It does not absorb water. It is almost crystalline, mixed with a very dry dirt, like freeze-dried coffee.

It was, in a theoretical way, heating the soil to a degree in an industrial microwave oven — to a super high heat — and then dropping it, instantly, into a sub-zero freeze — in almost a conical direction — down.

RAF Watten, a Royal Air Force Base, had radar returns of these objects on all nights in question. RAF Watten, on the third night and the first night, picked up an object descending into the forest. The next day, the U.S. Air Force went to RAF Watten, talked to the air traffic controllers, [and] told them that an alien spacecraft landed in Rendlesham Forest. There was contact with the base commander, and they were borrowing the radar tapes, but the tapes were never returned. These are all real people that are apparently talking now. I also know that on one of the nights in question, a small object appeared near the perimeter of RAF Watten, not far from our base. Of course, they had higher security because of the IRA threat at that time. A Royal Air Force police dog handler (K-9 team) was doing a perimeter patrol, and the dogs went flat down on the ground. These people are talking now. Then they saw these two beings near the fence line — prodding it — next to a triangular object. They were prodding the fence with these light-like objects. When they saw the RAF dog handlers, they fled toward this machine that took off and headed off toward our base.

When people ask about the film and photographs, there is confirmation — this isn’t a story I came up with. Captain Mike Verrano verifies on the Cable News Network program, UFO: the Bentwaters Incident, from 1985, that indeed he drove the wing commander Gordon Williams, the next morning, to an awaiting jet. The pilot opened the canopy, and he said, "What do you have in that satchel?" And he said, "I have actual film. We have actual film and photographs of the UFO." So, Gordon Williams personally handed this material, in a satchel, to the pilot, Mike Verrano [said]. I, by the way, asked where the film was going, and I was told Germany. That was Air Force command at that time. From there, we know that there was a paper trail, and that it was eventually sent back to Washington.

I was an honorably discharged security policeman. I have an honorable discharge. I’ve heard a lot of nasty things said about me, but I have my records. The only reason I have my records is because I was advised to steal some of them — by an Air Force Colonel — because he said they would vaporize you. He said, "They are going to fireproof you."

I was looked at almost like a Frank Serpico kind of guy. I was not a team player, because I was talking to everyone.

Unfortunately, my friend Alabama went AWOL trying to get back home. At O’Hare Airport, he was captured by the FBI and returned to duty immediately. All he wanted to do was go home, but he was put back on flight duty. I was riding with the senior master sergeant on vehicle patrol, just totally depressed with everything, when Alabama called in — this is a real person — and said he was going to kill himself if he couldn’t go home. And, this guy turned the pick-up truck quick, and was heading toward the post. He said, "You stay on the Goddamn radio..." I saw all the units across the flight line responding and everything. I never hear Mr. Halt comment on this at all, and that’s why he won’t stand with me in a place — because I bring up things that maybe they feel bad about. As he says, the Air Force [was] on the sidelines for it all. Anyway, Alabama had a short M16, and he put it in his mouth and took the top of his head off. This was the first time I ever saw death — violent death — at 19. We were as different as night and day, me and this kid. You know — he was the south; I was the north. He was very religious. I respect that, but we had nothing in common. He was a nice guy. And, they did not do anything to help us…

I have had unbelievable phone problems for years — the typical things — [and] my mail is still intercepted. In this country [the UK], it was, for years, opened and resealed in plastic, with a letter of apology. Many of our packages don’t get where they are going.

Later, my passport was coming up for renewal, and I sent it in. It would have expired by the time I was going on a trip. But soon after sending it in for a new one, I got a letter back saying, "Mr. Warren, your passport was altered or mutilated and you need to reapply for another one." I said, oh my God, what the hell was that? So, I just, I said, oh fine, [and] filled it out. Next response: "Mr. Warren, you must reestablish U.S. citizenship." I’m like, what? I’m calling all these people. Finally, in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, at the National Passport Center, this woman said, "I can’t tell you what’s happening here." After a while, I said, listen, I’m writing a book called Left at East Gate, and she goes, "The Bentwaters thing…" She said, "Call me at this number" — it was her home number in Lebanon, New Hampshire. I called her, and she said to me, "I have the official printout: ‘This individual’s passport is being revoked under some classification, due to his speaking of sensitive defense issues at a public forum on foreign soil,’ and then some coding, DOD coding, under it." I have it all, and it is just bizarre.

Our agent at that time, Perry Knowlton in New York City, was friends with Ramsey Clark, the former U.S. Attorney General. He set up a meeting with us, and I met with Mr. Clark in person. He said to me, "I’m going to make some phone calls for you," but he says, "I’m going to tell you this — after knowing everything — they say it was because you talked about nuclear weapons, that’s all." Mr. Clark said, "People in England suspected there were nukes there all the time. I will tell you this: your passport was suspended because of the other things you’ve talked about," and he wouldn’t elaborate any more. He made two phone calls, and the Department of State, with apologies, said it was an error.

So, we’ve tried to do our best. I’d be willing to speak and swear to this in front of any congressional body. I have great respect for my country, and I think it is the people’s right to know.

When it stopped, that’s when it made these fast movements: up, down, left, right- the movement was very geometric. I mean, it was not a normal movement. That probably threw us more than anything because it was just so, unusual. It was a lot faster than a jet plane…

He happened to be an electrical engineer for the Air Force. He said, you do know they found something out there? He said, well, we’ve been working with the plastic, with the material that we got from back then. And he said, back then it was pretty raw, but now we’ve been able to use it and to refine it. And they’ve been able to use it and it can take so many degrees of heat and temperature. He mentioned it was a gray material. But he was validating that there was something out there. And he said this material was not indigenous to here…