Testimony of Mr. Glen Dennis

September 2000

Mr. Dennis was a mortician in Roswell, NM. In July 1947, the time of the famous Roswell crash, the mortuary officer from the Roswell Army Airfield called him asking for hermetically sealed infant caskets but never explained why. Later that day when at the Airfield for an emergency he saw debris of unknown origin. A nurse, whom he knew, described to him the bodies of extraterrestrials she had just handled at the base.

GD: Mr. Glen Dennis   RS: Ralph Steiner

GD: Well, our mortuary had the contract for all military services out at the Roswell Army Airfield. This gentleman called and said he was a mortuary officer at the base and he needed some information. And I said, what do you need? He said, how many hermetically sealed infant caskets do you have, three and one-half, four foot, in stock? I said, we donít have any. How long would it take you to get them? I said, well, I can call them by 3:30 this afternoon and have them in here in the morning. I said, whatís going on? He said, thatís not important.

Then he called back later and he said, I need more information. And he wanted to know what embalming chemicals that would alter the tissue, the stomach contents, and what is our preparation for taking care of bodies that are lying out in the elements for several days? And I said, you are the mortuary officer and you are asking me? I was trying to find out who I was talking to

Later on in the day I got an emergency. When I arrived at the base there were three field army air force ambulances backed up against the ramp. We were walking up the ramp and I saw a lot of debris. And when checked in, I said, sir it looked like we had crash. Do I need to get ready for it? And he said who in the hell are you and what are you doing here? And I said, well, I had an emergency and we have the contract for all military services. And it looks like you had a crash. He just said, stay right here. Donít move. So I stayed there. And pretty soon he came back with two military police and said get this guy off of the base heís not supposed to be here.

Whatever had happened, all the doctors and nurses that were stationed here in that area were given orders not to report [it]. It was my understanding that the reason for this was that there were all these specialists who had been sent in from Wright Patterson.

So evidently I was involved in things that I shouldnít have been involved in.

I knew this nurse. And this nurse didnít get her orders not to report. She met two pathologists from Wright Patterson. They were examining what was brought in from the UFO crash, what we call the Roswell crash. And they said, Lieutenant we still need some help. And this is what you are going to do. And they wanted her. And so theyíd turn a hand [from the ET] and sheíd say, four fragile fingers, so many centimeters etc. She said she wasnít in there over 20 or 30 minutes at the most and then all their eyes started burning and their skin was getting real warm and real hot. So they had no idea what they had, and the two pathologists said there wasnít anything in the anatomy books like this. There wasnít anything like that in our medical schools. They had never seen anything like this. Immediately after that the ET bodies were put in these pouches

RS: And the nurse actually described for you what they looked like?

GD: Yeah, when the MPís were taking me out down the hall, thatís when she came out of the supply room with this towel over her face and thatís when she screamed, Glen get out of here as fast as you can. I met her the next morning at the Officerís Club in a conference room and thatís when she gave me a little diagram of what was going on and what they looked like. And it looks like what you see today, most of the little diagrams, you know the four fragile fingers and the long arms, the large eyes. She said the heads were almost completely demolished but they could see they only had two orifices. They didnít have ear lobes; they had two ear canals. The mouth was only about one inch. And thatís the way she described it to me.

And I was with her until about 11:30 that day, and then at 3:30 that afternoon her supervisor called me and said, your friend has been transferred out. And I have her military serial number and everything else but I never have found her to this day. Iíve never made contact with her. She had been planning to join a convent. And I imagine they discharged her and let her go. Itís a good place to keep somebody quiet.

[There is a repeated pattern of people who are witnesses to extraterrestrial events being suddenly transferred and separated from other witnesses. SG]

One of the MPs took me aside and he just said, look mister, you donít go and start any rumors. Nothing happened down here. And he said, if you do you know thereíd be real serious problems. The way my character was at that time, I just said, Iím a civilian and you can go to hell. And thatís when he said, you may be the one going to hell. He said, somebody would be picking my bones out of the sand if I talked.

The material I saw from the crash didnít look like aluminum or stainless steel. What it looked like, of course, we didnít have in those days. It was a real light gray, almost a white. And some of it was real dark. It looked more like what fiberglass might look like today. And it wasnít dented or anything. It looked like it had been twisted and shredded and all this kind of stuff. But I didnít see any real sharp dents. I know it was very thin. I could see that it was very, very thin.

One of those sergeants out there said, well, let him go to hell, nobody is going to believe him anyway. Nobody is going to believe this happened.

[Indeed the truth about this matter is so far outside of most peopleís reality that it is its own best cover. The truth covers itself even if placed in plain sight.]

Testimony of Lieutenant Walter Haut, US Navy

September 2000

First Lieutenant Haut was the Public Information Officer at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell NM when an extraterrestrial vehicle crashed in nearby Corona. He was the individual who put out the original story that a flying disc had crashed there. That story was retracted the next day.

Ö We had, in our possession, a flying saucer. It was found on a ranch up north of Roswell. It was being flown to General Rameyís office, that being the next higher command- the 8th Air Force. And that was the end of it. The information that I got was given to me, almost verbatim, by Colonel Blanchard. He read off of a scratch pad that he had in front of him and I was writing it down. After we got all through with it, I was kind of awedÖ

I learned that they put all the hunks and pieces [of the crashed ETV] in an aircraft and it was flown out. But [after the press release went out] I got call after call after callÖ

The [cover up] was pretty well orchestrated. I think the thought of handling it that way came down from Washington, through channels, and we were told that we were all wrong, that it was just a weather balloonÖ

I think that there was lots and lots of cover up. My sincere feeling is that thing was something from outer space. And the military decided that our public may not accept it very graciously, something coming from outer space and hitting our own Earth. Itís a little bit hard to get many people to accept itÖ

Testimony of Buck Sergeant Leonard Pretko, US Air Force

November 2000

Buck Sergeant Pretko was trained in communications and served at Hickham Field in Hawaii. In the early Ď50s at an outdoor theater with over 250 people present nine silver disks were seen by everyone randomly moving over the entrance to Pearl Harbor. The event lasted for about 10 minutes. At another time he explains that he befriended one of General Douglas MacArthurís personal security guards who told him that MacArthur had seen the craft and extraterrestrial bodies from the Roswell crash.

Ö Everybody turned and looked to the right and over the entrance of Pearl Harbor there were nine silver disks. The first sighting that we had they were like a letter "L". Before we knew it they were going this way and that way and they were making all kinds of maneuvers. It lasted about ten minutes. Everybody just kept looking. We had some Colonel get up and he said, "Donít worry about it folks. Those are all just spotlights."

Well, being an idiot like me I jumped up and said, "Colonel, what do you mean spotlights? There are no clouds. There is no beam of light coming from anyplace." He told me to shut up. Just then the Bird Colonel jumped up, his name was Miller, and he said, "Colonel, you shut up. You arenít going to fool the people here. They are all military." So we watched the things for about 10 minutes and then they just took off.

These things, they were really fast. There were times that we read in the Honolulu newspaper that they had tracked these objects once going from Hawaii to Japan in eight minutesÖ

He said to me, "You know that I am a member of General Douglas MacArthurís security guard. I am on my way to the States for TDY. General Douglas MacArthur was very familiar with the Roswell incident, the crash material, and also the bodies because he himself has seen them. That is what he told me. From that day on I never mentioned a word until five years ago.

In the military they do ridicule you and I was ridiculed a few times about these UFO events. I was told that I would never make Master Sergeant if I brought this crap up again. My superior said, "If you keep this crap up you will never make Master Sergeant. You will get orders for Tech but you will never make Master Sergeant. They will force you out of the military."

Testimony of Mr. Dan Willis, US Navy

March 2001

Mr. Dan Willis was in the Navy from 1968 to 1971 with a top-secret crypto level-14 security clearance. Later, he worked for 13 years at the Naval Electronic Engineering Center in San Diego. He tells of a time when he received a most unusual communications from a merchant marine ship near the Alaskan coast. The message said that there was a reddish-orange glowing elliptical object about 70 feet in diameter that came out of the ocean and shot off into space. It was tracked on radar going 7,000 miles an hour. Many years later, Mr. Willis related this story to someone he knew who had previously worked at NORAD. He said that there were occasions where objects would be tracked on NORAD radar going so fast that they were off the scale, and once when this happened one of his older supervisors causally told him that, "it was just a visit from one of our little friends."

Ö The message had the following contentÖ I remember very vividly the details of what the content of the message was. The message revealed that coming out of the ocean, very near the ship, off port bow, a reddish-orange glowing elliptical object, approximately seventy feet in diameter, came out of the water and shot off into space. The shipís radar tracked it. It was going over 7,000 miles per hour. It all stuck with me to this dayÖ

I worked with some of the personnel that worked at NORAD. We were talking about UFOs. He said, "When I first started working at NORAD," quote, "the screens, which monitored the radar across the country, all of a sudden something would come across the screen and the scale Ė reading the speed on this thing would go off the scale Ö" And one of the older supervisors advised him, "Oh, itís just a visit from one of our little friends," like just a normal occurrence.

Testimony of Dr. Roberto Pinotti

September 2000

In his testimony, Mr. Pinotti speaks about the 215 inexplicable UFO events in the Italian Air Force files. He obtained official Italian documents that date back to the 30ís, specifically 1936 where the then Fascist Government was handling and documenting UFO sightings. Mussolini was very concerned about these unexplained craft because of the effect they might have on the Italian Air Force. The documents talk about elongated craft expelling smaller flying-saucer type UFOís. One sighting happened over the skyís of Venice. The Air Force attempted to intercept these craft but could not as they were too fast. Recently the Chief of the Intelligence Office of the Italian Air Force, General Olivero, spoke about this subject saying that the problem of UFOís exists and that the Air Force has been dealing with it since 1978. There were even two landing traces in Campagna near Naples where the soil was bombarded with high intensity, high frequency microwaves. There was another important event documented by Air Force General Salvatore Marcholetti in 1976 where, in Lechi, he was flying and came across a huge green object that appeared over his plane. Soon the UFO took off at tremendous speed.

ÖFrom the standpoint of the nature of the sightings, the Air Force documents show that we are facing definite real objects and that these objects are detected by radar. The Italian military pilots have had encounters in the skies of Italy exactly like in the US and elsewhere. When the Italian Air Force says that they have 215 cases still unexplained this means that they are UFO sightings which have unknown characteristics. For instance, there are cases of military planes attempting to intercept these objects in the skies of Italy. But these objects go away without the possibility of being interceptedÖ

Recently, we had an Italian Air Force officer speak officially and in uniform about the UFO issue. The speaker was General Olivero. Heís the chief of the intelligence office of the Italian Air Force, which is in charge of following the UFO cases. He said that the problem exists and the Italian force is handling this difficult issue since 1978. He said that they have on file at least 215 UFO cases, and that really there are inexplicable cases. He was also asked officially by the press what he thought on a personal basis. He said that, since heís a pilot, he knows serious colleagues and serious pilots who have related encounters with UFOs, and he said, I trust them.

In the Ď90s we had two landing cases in Italy and both occurred in Campagna -- Campagna is the region near Naples. The landing traces left by these two different objects were analyzed in a laboratory by our experts. We got specific results. We discovered that the objects, after their landing, had really bombarded the surface of the soil with high intensity, high frequency microwaves. We could check and define this effect. We then compared these results with the world famous case of Trans en Provence in France, which occurred in 1981 and which is a classic from this point of view. It was very important because when we went to Toulouse we found that the data we saw from these cases were really similar in effect.

This was very, very important. We have a good relationship with the French governmental body which researches UFO matters in France. Monsieur Valesco is the head of the governmental body who studies the UFO problem in France.

The French, they think that the problem is real, that we are confronting a real phenomenon, a technological phenomenon of unknown nature. The position of the French is extremely open and extremely realisticÖ

Another important case was the case of an Air Force general-he is retired now- General Salvatore Marcholetti, in 1976. When he was the chief of the flight school of the Italian Air Force in Lechi, he happened to meet a tremendous object during a flight. He was flying and he suddenly saw this green object over him- over the cockpit. He understood that something enormous, huge, was over the plane.

He didnít know what to do. Seconds later, minutes later- he still doesnít know how long this experience lasted- he suddenly saw this mass take off with tremendous speed. Only after he left the Italian Air Force did he mentioned this eventÖ

From a logical point of view, I donít think that we have anything to fear because if we were facing hostile beings, surely they would have conquered us or made incredible things happen in the past -- they could really. If this hasnít happen, surely it is because we havenít nothing to fear.

Probably there are, in every part of the world, invisible links with a definite invisible college that is keeping this secret. They are dealing with this subject from the standpoint of research secretly in order to have gains and technologies to be applied in a various ways. The UFO problem is not only a scientific problem, it is also an intelligence problem.

This is the second important face of the UFO reality. When we begin to understand this we may understand a lot of things, because all this has to do with power. Power everywhere, in every country, with every government, with every situation.

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3.8.5 Technology / Science

Testimony of Mr. Mark McCandlish, US Air Force

December 2000

Mark McCandlish is an accomplished aerospace illustrator and has worked for many of the top aerospace corporations in the United States. His colleague, Brad Sorenson, with whom he studied, has been inside a facility at Norton Air Force Base, where he witnessed alien reproduction vehicles, or ARVs, that were fully operational and hovering. In his testimony, you will learn that the US not only has operational antigravity propulsion devices, but we have had them for many, many years, and they have been developed through the study, in part, of extraterrestrial vehicles over the past fifty years. In addition, we have the drawing from aerospace inventor Brad Sorenson of the devices that he saw, as well as a schematic of one of these alien reproduction vehicles ó in some remarkable detail.

I work principally as a conceptual artist. Most of my clients are in the defense industry. I occasionally work directly for the military, but most the time I work for civilian corporations that are defense contractors and build weapons systems and things for the military. Iíve worked for all the major defense contractors: General Dynamics, Lockheed, Northrop, McDonald-Douglas, Boeing, Rockwell International, Honeywell, and Allied Signet Corporation.

In 1967 when I was at Westover Air Force Base, one night before going to bed I saw this light moving across the sky; then it just kind of stopped, and there wasnít any noise. I took the dog back in the house, and I brought out my telescope and watched this thing through the telescope for about ten minutes. In fact, it was hovering directly over the facility where they kept the nuclear weapons ó at the storage facility near the alert hangers at Westover Air Force Base. It started to move off, and it moved off slowly and kind of wandered around the sky. Then, all of a sudden it was gone, like it had been fired out of a gun. It was out of sight in just a second or two.

Well, it all started coming together when I was working at IntroVision, and John Eppolito talked about this interview that he had done with a person who had, for some reason, wound up walking up to, or near a hangar at a section of a military Air Force base. [He] had seen a flying saucer in a hangar, and then he was arrested ó hauled off, blindfolded, and debriefed ó this sort of thing. Then I learned that this fellow, Mark Stambough, had developed an experiment that created a kind of levitation. In some circles itís been called electrogravitic levitation, or antigravity.

What he did, apparently, was acquire a high voltage power source ó a DC (direct current) power source, and he took a couple of quarter-inch-thick copper plates about a foot in diameter, with a lead coming out of the middle of each one at the top and the bottom. [Then], he basically embedded them in a type of plastic resin like polycarbonate or Plexiglas, or some other kind of clear resin where you could see the plates, and you could see the material. Apparently, he did everything he could to get all the little air bubbles and stuff out of there, so there wouldnít be any pathways for the electricity to break down the material and arc through them. The experiment was to see how much voltage you could put on this capacitor ó the sub-plate capacitor ó in this arrangement; how much voltage could you put on this thing before the insulating material begins to just break down?

Well, he got up to about a million volts, and the thing would begin to float, and it floated in accordance with principles that had been described in a patent that was filed back in the late 1950s/early 1960s by a gentleman called Thomas Townsend Brown. Brown and another individual by the name of Dr. Biefield had done this, so this effect became known as the Biefield-Brown effect. Well, [Stambough] apparently duplicated the experiments done by Biefield and Brown, [and] the one aspect they found about this arrangement was that the levitation or movement would occur in the direction of the positively-charged plate. So, if you had two plates, one is negative, and one is positive because of the direct current system. If you have the positive plate on top, it would move in that direction. If you had it on a pendulum, it would always swing in whatever direction the positive plate was facing.

Later, I got a call from a kid that I had known in school, a fellow by the name of Brad Sorensen. He apparently had recognized my name [from some work I had done in a magazine], and had contacted the art director who gave him my phone number, and he called me up. It turned out that he had gone to work for a design firm in the Glendale/Pasadena area of California and ultimately wound up acquiring most of the clientele for this particular agency.

In the process, he developed a business practice where he would create conceptual designs and products for different clients. The way he structured his business [was to] set it up so that if he came up with some new and novel design, something that was patentable, the client would pay to have the patent secured. Then he would agree, if the patent was in his name, to license it exclusively to them and no one else, and they would pay him royalties. So, he got his clients to pay for all these patents, and he had all these royalties coming in, and he was a millionaire before 30.

So, this is Brad Sorensen coming back to me eight years after school, and weíre talking, and heís telling me all these interesting stories. There was an air show that was coming up at Norton Air Force Base, which used to be an active Air Force base right on the eastern fringe of San Bernardino in Southern California.

I suggested that we get together and go to this air show. I had heard that they were going to have a fly-by (a flying demonstration) by the SR-71 Blackbird, and he seemed to know a lot about it, so I said, well, letís do that. It turned out [that] at the last minute, the magazine Popular Science came back again and [told me] they had some really, really crazy deadline for another illustration, and they wanted to know if I could do it over the weekend, so I had to beg off on this air show.

Brad had already made arrangements to go, and he was going to bring one of his clients with him. It turned out that this client was a tall, thin, white-haired man with glasses [and] an Italian-sounding last name. He was already a millionaire in his own right and was in civilian life again after having been either a Secretary of Defense or an Under-Secretary of Defense. Brad wanted me to meet this gentleman, and if I had known this at the time, I probably would have told the magazine to wait, because I had no idea at that point what I was going to be missing out on.

Believe me, Iíve kicked myself ever since, because the following week, after Brad got back home, he called me up and told me about the air show. He told me about what he had seen there: apparently, right about the time the Air Force flying demonstration team, the Thunderbirds, were planning to begin their show, this gentleman that Brad was with said, "Follow me," and they [went] walking down to the other end of the airfield, away from where the crowds were, to this huge hangar thatís at Norton Air Force Base. I donít remember the building number, but itís got to be one of the largest hangars in the Air Force inventory.

In fact, on the base it was called The Big Hangar. It looks like four giant Quonset hut style hangars that are all connected in the middle, with shops and work areas out around the edges, and there is sort of a divider in the middle.

[See the testimony of Lieutenant Colonel John Williams. SG]

This gentleman took Brad down there. He said, "Iím here to talk to the guy who is running the show," so the guard goes in and out comes the same guard with a gentleman in a three-piece suit, who immediately recognizes this fellow that Brad is with: this fellow whom I speculate was probably Frank Carlucci. They go inside, and immediately after getting inside the door, this fellow apparently passes Brad off as his aide to this fellow who is managing the exhibit thatís going on inside this hangar. This exhibit is for some of the local politicians who are cleared for high security information, [plus] some of the local military officials.

Well, as soon as they walk in, Brad is told by this fellow that he is with, "There are a lot of things in here that I didnít expect they were going to have on display ó stuff you probably shouldnít be seeing. So, donít talk to anybody, donít ask any questions, just keep your mouth shut, smile and nod, but donít say anything ó just enjoy the show. Weíre going to get out of here as soon as we can."

In the process, the host or the person running the show was very engaging with the gentleman that Brad was with, so they bring them in, and they are showing them everything. There was the losing prototype from the B-2 Stealth Bomber competition. They also had what was called the Lockheed Pulsar, nicknamed the Aurora.

These things had the ability to be just about anywhere in the world 30 minutes after launch, with the capability of 121 nuclear warheads ó you know, probably 10-15 megaton weapons ó a tactical type nuclear reentry vehicle.

So, getting back to Bradís story at Norton Air Force Base: one of the other things he said was that after they showed them all of these aircraft, they had a big black curtain that divided the hangar into two different areas. Behind these curtains was another big area, and inside this area they had all the lights turned off; so, they go in and they turn the lights on, and here are three flying saucers floating off the floor ó no cables suspended from the ceiling holding them up, no landing gear underneath ó just floating, hovering above the floor. They had little exhibits with a videotape running, showing the smallest of the three vehicles sitting out in the desert, presumably over a dry lakebed ó someplace like Area 51. It showed this vehicle making three little quick, hopping motions; then [it] accelerated straight up and out of sight, completely disappearing from view in just a couple of seconds ó no sound, no sonic boom ó nothing.

They had a cut-away illustration, pretty much like the one Iíll show you in a little bit, that showed what the internal components of this vehicle were, and they had some of the panels taken off so you could actually look in and see oxygen tanks and a little robotic arm that could extend out from the side of the vehicle for collecting samples and things. So, obviously, this is a vehicle that not only is capable of flying around through the atmosphere, but itís also capable of going out to space and collecting samples, and itís using a type of propulsion system that doesnít make any noise. As far as he could see, it had no moving parts and didnít have any exhaust gases or fuel to be expended ó it was just there hovering.

So, he listened intently and collected as much information as he could, and when he came back, he told me how he had seen these three flying saucers in this hangar at Norton Air Force Base on November 12, 1988 ó it was a Saturday. He said that the smallest was somewhat bell-shaped. They were all identical in shape and proportion, except that there were three different sizes. The smallest, at its widest part, was flat on the bottom, somewhat bell-shaped, and had a dome or a half of a sphere on top. The sides were sloping at about a 35-degree angle from pure vertical.

The panels that were around the skirt had been removed, so he could see one of these big oxygen tanks inside. He was very specific in describing the oxygen tanks as being about 16 to 18 inches in diameter, about 6 feet long, and they were all radially-oriented, like the spokes of a wheel. This dome that was visible on the top was actually the upper half of a big sphere-shaped crew compartment that was in the middle of the vehicle, and around the middle of this vehicle was actually a large plastic casting that had this big set of copper coils in it. He said it was about 18 inches wide at the top, and about 8 to 9 inches thick. It had maybe 15 to 20 stacked layers of copper coils inside of it.

The bottom of the vehicle was about 11 or 12 inches thick. In both cases, the coil and this large disc at the bottom were like a big plastic casting ó sort of a greenish-blue, clear plastic, or it might have been glass. I determined, using my conceptual artist skills, that there were exactly 48 sections like thin slices of pizza pie, and each section within this casting probably weighed four or five tons, judging by the thickness and the diameter. It must have been monstrous in weight. It was full of half-inch-thick copper plates, and each of the 48 sections had 8 copper plates.

So, here we are back to the plate capacitors again, and the prospect of someone finding a way to use the Biefield-Brown effect ó this levitation effect where you charge a capacitor to lift towards a positive plate. Now, when youíve got eight plates stacked up in there, they alternate. It goes: negative positive, negative, positive, negative, positive ó four times, so you ultimately wind up with the positive plates always being above a set of negative plates as you go up.

On the inside of the crew compartment was a big column that ran down through the middle, and there were four ejection seats mounted back-to-back on the upper half of this column. Then, right in the middle of the column, was a large flywheel of some kind.

Well, this craft was what they called the Alien Reproduction Vehicle; it was also nicknamed the Flux Liner. This antigravity propulsion system ó this flying saucer ó was one of three that were in this hangar at Norton Air Force Base. [Its] synthetic vision system [used] the same kind of technology as the gun slaving system they have in the Apache helicopter: if [the pilot] wants to look behind him, he can pick a view in that direction, and the cameras slew in pairs. [The pilot] has a little screen in front of his helmet, and it gives him an alternating view. He [also] has a little set of glasses that he wears ó in fact, you can actually buy a 3-D viewing system for your video camera now that does this same thing ó so when he looks around, he has a perfect 3-D view of the outside, but no windows. So, why do they have no windows? Well, itís probably because the voltages that weíre talking about [being] used in this system were probably something between, say, half a million and a million volts of electricity.

Now, he said there were three vehicles. The first one ó the smallest, the one that was partially taken apart, the one that was shown in the video that was running in this hangar November 12, 1988 at Norton Air Force Base ó was about 24 feet in diameter at its widest part, right at the base. The next biggest one was 60 feet in diameter at the base.

Now, I started looking at the design of this thing, and it occurred to me that what I was looking at was a huge Tesla coil, which is kind of like an open-air transformer. What happens is that when you pass electricity through this large diameter coil, it creates a field.

Thatís what this system does: it takes electricity, using two large 24-volt marine-style batteries. You basically use that to somehow put an alternating current through these windings. [Then], you step up that electricity through the secondary coil, which is on the column in the middle, and you get this extremely high voltage. You can selectively put the voltage on any of these 48 capacitor sections.

Well, why would you want to do that? If youíre using just a normal Tesla coil, you usually have maybe one or two capacitors in the whole system. But, youíre talking about a different type of capacitor here ó youíre talking about capacitors that are made up of plates ó plates that are shaped like long, thin triangles, and they are all radially-oriented just like the spokes of a wheel, just like the oxygen tanks, just like the field lines from that large diameter coil. As you look at this system, if youíre an electrician or just somebody who knows a little bit about Tesla coils and the way they are set up, you begin to realize that the orientation of components is really the key to making the system work.

Why so many different capacitor sections? If you just have one big disc like Mark Stambough did with his experiment at the University of [Arizona] ó which, by the way, was confiscated by men claiming to be from the government and claiming privilege under the National Security Act. They took all this stuff, interviewed all the people that saw the experiments, and told everybody to keep their mouths shut and not talk about it. But, I heard about it from his roommate who knew what had happened. [Anyway], in that case, you have levitation, but you donít get any control. You have this thing floating around, and itís just sort of floating on whatever this field is that itís producing, but you donít have any control.

So, what happens? You break that disc up into 48 different sections, and then you can decide how much electricity you want to put on this side or over there on that side, so you can control the amount of electricity and the amount of thrust and vectoring that you get. You can make it go straight up, you can make it bank and turn and pitch ó whatever you want to, by virtue of the fact that you can control where the electricity goes in those 48 different sections. If you ever take a circle and divide it up into 48 equal sections, youíll find that those are really thin little slices. So, you have these 48 individual capacitors, and you have one big Tesla coil. Youíve got to have some kind of a rotating spark gap, just like the distributor in your car, that sends the electricity out to each of those sections. Then, you have to have some way of controlling how much electricity goes to each one.

[A disc-shaped craft like this has omnidirectional movement ó it isnít limited to moving in one direction like a jet with a nose and a tail. LW, after talking to McCandlish.]

Now, when Brad described the control system, he said that on the one side there was this big high-voltage potentiometer ó itís like a rheostat, a big controller. It allows you to put progressively more electricity through the system as you push the lever. On the other side of the control system, there was a sort of a metallic bar that came up like a storkís neck, and right at the very tip of it was a sort of metallic-looking ball. Attached to that ball was a kind of a bowl that seemed to just hang off the bottom of the ball, almost like it was magnetically attached to it. He said the whole thing would just sit there, and it would kind of rock and list, almost like a large ship at anchor in a harbor on the ocean, floating on the water. It was literally on a sea of energy.

Dr. John Moray did experiments with different kinds of energy ó something that may have been scalar energy ó back in the early 1920s or the 1930s, I believe it was. He wrote a book called The Sea of Energy, and he describes this type of energy. Brad said that when this thing was moving around, the system wasnít energized to its full strength, so components inside the ship were still subject to some influence by gravity. He [said] as it would start to list in one direction, the bowl, because of the influence of gravity, would swing in the same direction. As it started to tilt, it would slide over and it would power up the system on that side, and it would bring it back to a righted position all by itself. Completely unmanned, it would sit there, and it would correct itself just while it was sitting there.

It was all linked fiber-optically. Well, why would that make any difference? Why would you want to have a system thatís all linked fiber-optically? The reason is that if you find a way to control gravity, you reduce the mass of it. If you are able to do that, what are the other side benefits? What if you somehow found a way of tapping into this scalar field, this zero-point energy? If what the scientists believe is true, then the zero-point energy is actually what keeps the electrons around the atomic structure of everything in our universe. It keeps them energized ó it keeps those little electrons spinning in their different clouds around the nucleus of every atom in our world. It keeps them going, keeps them from crashing into the nucleus like a satellite orbiting the Earth gets pulled into the atmosphere by gravitational drag. Well, if you have a way of interfering with that interaction, that absorption of zero-point energy by those electrons, they begin to slow down.

Every atom in the universe is just like a little gyroscope: itís got all these electrons spinning around the nucleus, and they have a gyroscopic effect, which is the effect we call inertia and mass. We have one nucleus with a proton and a neutron and one electron ó hydrogen ó spinning around like that: not very much mass, not too much inertia. If you take uranium 235, [with] 235 electrons all spinning around in their different clouds, there is a lot of mass; there is a lot of inertia, because itís like a bigger gyroscope, in a way. At least, thatís the analogy that Iíve kind of picked up here. But, if you have a way of interfering with that absorption of zero-point energy so those electrons become de-energized, they begin to slow down. The effect of that inertia, that gyroscopic effect, begins to drop off, and the mass drops off too, even though the atomic structure is intact; and itís still there ó itís still uranium, but itís not as heavy.

One of the things Einstein said was that you could never accelerate anything up to and past the speed of light. If you did, you would have to have all the energy in the universe, because as you accelerate through space, mass increases. One of the old films showing this concept shows a train going faster and faster towards the speed of light, but the train keeps getting bigger and bigger until the engine just canít pull it, so it can never pass the speed of light.

But, what if you have a system, a device, that absorbs that zero-point energy and prevents it from interacting with the atomic structure of the vehicle? And at the same time, itís providing additional power to the capacitor section ó this whole electrical system that is going on in the vehicle, thatís running. In effect, the faster you go, the easier it becomes to go up to and exceed the speed of light.

Brad said that in this exhibit at Norton Air Force Base, a three star general said that these vehicles were capable of doing light speed or better. Oh, by the way, the largest of these vehicles was about 120 to 130 feet in diameter. I mean, thatís massive when you think about it ó itís just huge.

There is a scientist in Utah by the name of Moray B. King ó he wrote a book called Tapping the Zero Point Energy. What he maintains is that this energy is embedded in space-time all around us; itís in everything we see. I think it was James Clerk Maxwell who speculated that thereís enough of this flux, this electrical charge, in the nothingness of space, that if you could capture all the energy that was embedded in just a cubic yard of space, youíd have enough energy to boil the oceans of the entire world. Thatís how much energy is sitting there waiting to be tapped. Now, one of the things that Moray B. King said was that the best way to tap that energy is by driving it out of equilibrium. Itís just like a bunch of cigarette smoke in a box, but if you somehow send a shockwave through it, you can get force ó you can get ripples through it. Then, if you have a way of collecting that energy at the other end, you have a way of tapping into it and using it.

This Alien Reproduction Vehicle, this Flux Liner, has a way of doing that somehow, electronically. Now, Brad had described the fact that this central column has a kind of vacuum chamber in it. The vacuum chamber is one of the things that all of these scientists describe in these over-unity or free energy devices they build. They all have some kind of vacuum tubes, vacuum technology.

Brad maintained that inside this big vacuum chamber in the central column thatís inside everything else ó inside the flywheel, inside the secondary coils of the Tesla coil, inside the crew compartment ó there is mercury vapor. Mercury vapor will conduct electricity, but it produces all kinds of ionic effects. These little molecules of mercury become charged in unusual ways, and if you fire a tremendous amount of electricity through mercury vapor thatís in a partial vacuum, there is something special, something unusual that happens in that process.

I believe itís the process that Moray [King] came to describe when he [proposed] driving the energy in the vacuum out of equilibrium, putting some kind of a shockwave through it.

Now, the other thing that I believe happens here, is that as this system begins to tap into this zero-point energy and is drawing it away from the local environment, the whole craft becomes lighter in weight ó it becomes partially mass-canceled, if you will, which is one of the reasons why just a little bit of energy in the capacitors could shoot it all over the place.

One of the things that I believe happens, is when you take a system like this and you fire it up, everything in the system starts to become mass-canceled. The next thing that happens is that the electrons that are flowing through the system also become mass-canceled. What does that mean? It means as that system and all the electrons flowing through that big Tesla coil become mass-canceled, it also becomes the perfect super-conductor, which means the efficiency of the systems goes right through the ceiling. You get dramatic efficiency, just like the whole thing was dunked into liquid nitrogen or made out of pure silver or pure gold, which at certain temperatures are perfect conductors ó it becomes lighter and can accelerate at incredible speeds.

[The faster it goes, the lighter it gets, and the faster itís able to go. LW, after talking to McCandlish]

In 1992, I met a man named Kent Sellen and, as it turned out, Kent Sellen and I had a mutual friend: a fellow by the name of Bill Scott, or William Scott, who was a local editor for a trade publication called Aviation Week and Space Technology.

Bill Scott used to be a test pilot at Edwards Air Force Base back in the early 1970s, and Kent Sellen had been a crew chief working on the plane that Bill Scott flew. So I was talking to Kent Sellen about this and he nodded his head and smiled a big wide grin, and he winked and he kind of said, "Yes, I know what youíre talking about." I [asked], how do you know what Iím talking about? And he [said] "Because Iíve seen one." At that point, I keyed in on something that John Eppolito of IntroVision had told me about something in a hangar ó something that someone had seen in a hangar.

So, I [asked] Kent, when Iím meeting him at this air show at Edwards in 1992, was it flat on the bottom and had sloping sides and a dome on the top and little camera things? And he said, "Oh, youíve seen one?" I said, let me borrow your pen. I took out a little piece of paper, drew a sketch, and I [asked] does it look like that? He said, "Yes, thatís it ó thatís what it looks like." I [asked] when did you see this? He [replied], "I saw it in 1973." I [asked] where, when did you see it? He [responded], "I was a crew chief, [and] I worked on Bill Scottís plane when he was a test pilot."

He [told me] one night [his] shift supervisor [had told him], "Go out to North Base ó theyíve got a ground power unit for an aircraft thatís leaking or failed or something, so we need you to take a tow vehicle out there. Go out, pick it up, bring it back, drop it off at the repair depot; then you can go for the night, because weíve finished all our other work." Well, instead of going around the big perimeter road that goes up to the main entrance of North Base, Kent Sellen drove straight across the dry lake bed at Edwards to the North Base facility. He [came] up off the dry lake bed, [rolled] right up on the tarmac, and [was] going down these rows of hangars ó they [were] all Quonset-style hangars back then. He [stopped] in front of the first one with the doors cracked, expecting to find this defective ground power unit, and what [did] he see? He [saw] this flying saucer sitting in the hangar, hovering off the ground.

This brings me back to John Eppolitoís story about a guy who saw a UFO in a hangar sometime prior to 1982, when I met him. I [asked], what happened? He [said], "This thing was flat on the bottom, [with] sloping sides, little cameras in these little plastic domes all over, [and] there was a door on the side. I wasnít there for 15 seconds, [when] I heard footsteps running up to me, and before I could even turn around and look, there was a machine gun barrel at my throat." A gruff voice [said], "Close your eyes and get on the ground, or weíre going to blow your head off."

They put a hood over his head, blindfolded him, hauled him off, and they spent 18 hours debriefing him. While they did, they told him things about this vehicle that my buddy Brad didnít even know.

Brad had said that all of the components in the system were off-the-shelf components ó things that you could find right in the inventory. They [had] their own oxygen supply, and he [said] they [ejected] once they [got] below 15,000 feet. The individual seats [came] down off this central column on a set of rails, just like little railroad cars. They [came] off one-by-one, and the parachutes [came] out, and away they [went].

I looked at all this information that I got from Brad, [and] I realized there [was] a mechanical arm that [could] extend out from these little trap doors that [opened] up on the side of the vehicle. It [was] obvious that these things [were] capable of space travel. 10 [or] 15 years ago, I was talking to Tom Bearden about scalar effects. One of the things that he said, just off the top of his head, was, "Have you ever wondered why the NASA budget has been cut back so severely? Itís because theyíve got all this other technology that is so much better, so much faster. They are so much better than rocket-propelled spaceships that take months, sometimes years, to get to the outer reaches of the solar system. Why would you put millions and millions of dollars [into] what [amounts to] a public works program for scientists? Why invest all that money when you have this classified system thatís used exclusively by the National Security Agency, the CIA, or Air Force Intelligence? It will go anywhere in the solar system in hours, compared to months or years. Why spend all that money on NASA when youíve got something that will go there right now?"

When people speculate that there [might] be manned bases on the back side of the moon or there might be bases on Mars, I can tell you that I am almost positive that thatís true. In fact, I am positive that itís true.

I have met another man who knows about these things. He said, "I work at the B-2 bomber facility out at Plant 42 in Palmdale and Lancaster. Catty-corner across from the big production facility for the B-2 bomber, down at the southwest corner of the field is the Lockheed Skunkworks ó itís that huge complex down there." I said, yes, I know exactly where that is. He [said] "In the summer of 1992, I was outside about 10:30 at night, because I work a late shift and was smoking a cigarette, and I noticed that the sheriffís deputies were blocking off all of the streets surrounding Plant 42. They do that anytime there is a classified aircraft that is coming in to land or is departing from Plant 42."

He [continued], "I noticed all the streets being blocked off, and sitting out in front of this hangar [was] this circular formation of vehicles ó but they [were] really weird vehicles. They [were] like a little tractor with a turret on it, and the turret [had] a big mechanical arm with a basket on the end of it. Itís the kind of thing that electrical linemen use to work on high-tension power lines, but the baskets [were] all up in the air, and strung from each one of the baskets in this big circle is this big black curtain that [came] down, and there [was] a rope that [tied] them all together."

He said, "I looked up above the circular vehicle, and at about 500 feet was this big, black lens-shaped flying saucer, just sitting there above the vehicles. Out of the midst of this group of vehicles [came] a man with a big blue-green handheld flashlight. [He shined] it up at the vehicle and [flashed] it three times. There were three blue-green lights underneath the vehicle, and they [flashed back] at him three times."

"Then this thing [lowered] down into [the] cluster of vehicles. The arms all [extended] out over the center and [covered] this craft all up with the curtain ó then they all [trundled] into the hangar. The doors [closed], lights [came] on, [and] the sheriffs [left]." He said he smoked a lot of cigarettes for the next week after that, waiting to see something else, and a week later his patience was rewarded when the whole process reversed itself. He said that the lights [went] out, the doors [opened], [and] this cluster of vehicles [came] out. The arms all [stood] up, and after a while, this thing silently [rose] up to about 500 feet above the vehicles. The guy [came] out with the flashlight, [flashed] three times, [and] it [flashed] its lights at him three times.

Then he said this thing took off, [covering] the entire length of the runway, which is right next to the B-2 facility. It went past him and disappeared into the dark in under two seconds ó and this vehicle did it without any noise, without any supersonic shockwave, no sonic boom, nothing ó just like it had been fired from a canon. He said it changed [his] life. It changed [his] whole perspective, because then he [knew they had] anti-gravity ó massless propulsion. He [said they had] technology that they might have even recovered from some kind of a spacecraft that came from God-knows-where ó some other star system ó but, he [said] the fact [was they had] it.

We have found a patent filed by a James King Jr., and this patent looks just like this system except that instead of having a dome for a crew compartment, it has a cylinder in the center. [It has] the same shape, the flat bottom, [and] the sloping sides. It has the coils around the circumference, [and] it has the capacitor plates that are all radially-oriented. This patent was filed initially in 1960 [and] was secured in 1967 ó the same year that a photo was taken near Provo, Utah that looks just like [this craft].

The clincher is the guy who filed the patent worked with Townsend Brown. Townsend Brown had worked at a laboratory near Princeton, New Jersey with a scientist by the name of Agnew Bahnson in the Bahnson Laboratories. They did all these experiments that they were calling electrogravitic propulsion. There is [a] video that was converted from the 16-millimeter film that was shot by Agnew Bahnsonís daughter. Originally it was called "Daddyís Laboratory", and it shows all these experiments that Bahnson and Thomas Townsend Brown did, along with their assistant James King [J. Frank King], who filed the patent. That film shows little discs levitating and shooting off sparks and stuff. So, it all kind of comes full circle.

You see that now, they not only have the technology, theyíve got the technology in deployment. Not only does it fly but it looks just like the patents that were filed back in the 1960s ó the same year the photos were taken near Area 51 ó between Area 51 and Provo, Utah, by a military pilot. It shows all the same features; it shows all the same shapes. So, the bottom line for me is that regardless of whether you understand all the fine points of the technology, the technology exists and there are people that have seen it. I have seen these things myself, so to me itís just really a matter of time before they bring this technology out of the black and begin to let us use it for other things like pollution-free production of energy. You could probably take a couple of little things that look like those flying saucers and put them around a crank shaft and use them to drive an engine, pollution-free ó no use of fuel.

Anyway, the only other thing that I could say, is that when I was talking about the fiber optic control system, thatís also one of the things that goes back to the original Roswell account that there were all these little fibers with light going through them, and they couldnít explain what this stuff was. Well, why would you need a fiber optic system in a spaceship? If, suddenly, everything in the vehicle becomes mass-canceled, and even the electrons become mass-canceled, it means that all of the telemetry thatís going through your system is going to go haywire. Itís going to be like, suddenly, the system goes through a phase change, and everything is super-conducting. So, you have to have some way of maintaining the same level of control for your spark gaps ó the control of the amount of electricity that goes out of the capacitors ó so that when you change the control stick, you still get the same amount of movement and deflection in the system, even when you go into a state of mass-cancellation or partial mass-cancellation, because the electrons are also mass-canceled, so they become super-conducting circuits.

Why use fiber optics? Because photons have no mass, so they are unaffected. That means any information, any telemetry that you send back and forth to your computer gets there. It doesnít matter if the computer functions at the super-conducting level, because it just makes it faster, more efficient, smarter. You want to be able to control the aircraft so it doesnít crash, and whatís the best way to do it? With fiber optics.


Testimony of Professor Paul Czysz

November 2000

Dr. Paul Czysz is a Professor of Aeronautical Engineering at Parks College in St. Louis. He spent 8 years in the Air Force at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and another 30 years working for McDonnell-Douglas in the field of exotic technologies. While at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, he was involved in tracking UFOs over Missouri, Ohio, and Michigan. These UFOs were seen my many people: military, local police, and civilians, and were clocked at speeds around 20,000 MPH as they performed unusual, silent maneuvers. Dr. Czysz spent more than half his career at McDonnell-Douglas working on classified and compartmentalized projects, and testifies to the processes involved in maintaining secrecy on these projects. He warns against the human tendency to make every new technology into a weapon, pointing out that our weaponization of space does not address the threat of Earth terrorists, and the idea of using these weapons against extraterrestrial targets would be suicidal.

PC: Prof. Paul Czysz   I: Interviewer

PC: Iím a graduate of Parks College. I started in the Air Force at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and was in the Air Force for two years, [plus] stayed an additional six years working in research. Then I returned to McDonnell-Douglas and stayed there for thirty years. I finally ended up at Parks College again as an endowed Chair.

At McDonnell-Douglas, we did lot of high-speed work ó hypersonics. We worked on things that flew from Mach 4 to Mach 12, and had some airplanes that flew Mach 12 all the way around the world. We almost built it.

One of the more interesting nights I had at Wright-Patterson was when I was the assistant to the head officer-of-the-day over at Patterson Field. We had 151 phone calls come in regarding unidentified objects flying down U.S. 40 ó then turning at Columbus and going up to Detroit. These [calls] were [from] state policemen, some doctors that worked late at night, all kinds of people that reported seeing this. We had radar tracks on them and had airliners call in that they had seen them. It was very, very interesting. These guys gave very clear descriptions of what they saw.

You know, probably more than half of my career was in projects that were classified or compartmentalized.

I: Can you describe how that process works?

PC: Generally, depending on the level of the compartmentalization and the secrecy level, you have to go through a fairly significant background check. It takes between six months to a year to get the background checks. Then, when you do that, if youíre in a very tight compartment, you sign a statement that you will not divulge the existence of the project or even answer a question that could acknowledge the existence of the project. Itís not even on a need-to-know basis; itís on the basis of people being identified specifically to know what youíre working on and [who are] directly associated with the project, so itís very closely-contained material.

If you have a covert project, the funding would come through a number of government sources, none of which would be identified to the workers. Whatever high-level people were involved in it ó even they might not know where the funding came from. Itís just that you sign a contract with the U.S. government, and the funding would show up at the right place at the right time.

If there were non-Earthbound sources of the information, the people who were doing the design work or doing the analysis work would never have any idea of where it [the materiel] came from. All you would have to do is visit Russia to see how they did it. They would compartmentalize every project into what I used to call silos, and they would have a colonel or a general sitting on top of that, and literally, they could not talk to anyone outside of that silo. If someone else needed help, one person would be sent over to another place, sit down at a desk, look at a piece of paper, say, "Yes, I know what that problem is; hereís the answer to it," and walk away. He would not even know what it was that he was working on.

The giant triangles that appear over Palmdale move very slowly ó theyíre very large and very slow-moving. Thatís different, I think, [from] the ones that appear all over Belgium and that are very fast-moving.

You canít explain that in conventional physics. By conventional physics, I mean engines and jet engines and rocket motors and propulsion systems as we know them today. You put fuel in, you burn something, and it produces thrust and accelerates an object. In conventional physics, you cannot explain how human beings could live long enough to go much beyond the edge of our little solar system.

So, in conventional terms, no, you canít explain it. It has to be related to quantum physics, in which things can appear to be almost two places at the same time, and appear and reappear just like positrons and electrons do in some of the high-energy particle colliders. Itís a coupling of the device with the energy that permeates space. Probably Tesla was close to it when he said that if given the right energy system, the right electromagnetic spectrum, he could power a human base on Mars from Earth, without any loss of energy. In quantum physics and zero-point energy, thatís a possibility.

Sakharov and others were working on this and made very convincing arguments that the fabric of space is like an ocean, an energy ocean, in which solid energy is floating, and solid energy is the mass. If thatís true, then gravity waves exist, and in fact, everything goes back to Heavysideís [phonetic spelling] equations. Here, the quantum is now not mass, but time. If thatís true, then you look at the whole universe in a different light. A lot of things become possible, that we think impossible within our current understanding of what time and space and thrust and force are.

If these UFOs come from another part of the universe, it must involve something like this. Even our galaxy is about 100,000 light years across. All of the conventional thrust and force mechanisms that we conceive of just wonít work in terms of human timeframes. If people are here from another civilization, then theyíve understood the finer points of quantum physics.

When I was at Wright-Patterson, we had the flying saucers that covered the distance from Columbus to Detroit in something like the equivalent of about 20,000 miles an hour. Back then, I donít think anyone in the ordinary aerospace business would have had any knowledge of quantum physics or wormholes or the types of things we know now. But, if you went to CERN now and talked to the particle physicists, they would tell you certainly, some of this was possible, because they see it all the time. Where they think they see mass, they really see energy frozen in a time quantum. What theyíre seeing is really a frozen bundle of energy. It moves back and forth almost without any restrictions.

The UFOs werenít phenomena that were [just] peopleís imagination. Whatever they saw was real; I couldnít explain how it was real, what made it real, but I think they saw what they saw.

Near St. Louis, there was a fairly large triangular object seen, and it traveled the distance down to south St. Louis. In some of its sightings, it was moving relatively benignly, but then it literally jumped about 20 miles in a couple of seconds. I received a lot of phone calls from the local newspapers and TV stations, asking how that could be done. I said, I donít know how it can, unless you explain it through something like a quantum physics explanation of time and space and relationships that gave you time and space travel. Other than that, thereís no way to do that. And, this object made no sound at all. It starts out at hover, and it literally almost disappears and pops over here ó so itís not like a cartoon where it goes "whoosh." Itís almost like it disappears and comes up over here, according to the descriptions that some of the police officers gave.

The hard part is to find a way to physically do that. There are people who have been experimenting with zero-point energy, or who tried to tap zero-point energy for years. Every once-in-a-while, someone will do it accidentally. Theyíll call it cold fusion, but I donít think itís cold fusion; I just think itís a zero-point energy tap. Except for three people that I know, no one has been able to control it. When it happens, it happens for a short period of time and itís almost always destructive. Itís like drilling a hole into the base of Grand Coulee Dam, and all of a sudden a jet of water comes out that literally has enough pressure to cut you in half. Without a valve on it, you canít shut it off.

Thereís one guy that a friend of mine actually visited in Ann Arbor, Michigan, who I consider a mathematical genius, and who actually figured out a way to control it. He was terrified that someone would kill him for the knowledge that he had and the ability to tap this whenever he chose to, and control it. We havenít seen him in five years; we donít know where he is.

Today youíve got an energy problem with the price of oil. What do you think would happen if you introduced the ability to tap this zero-point energy? Zero-point energy represents about 40-50 megawatts of power per cubic inch of space. Thatís a lot of power. If you could tap it at will, then no one would have to sell gasoline or oil anymore. You would just tap into it. It would be like going out to the Great Lakes and taking out one drop and using it ó youíd hardly miss it. And, since it permeates the whole universe and it continually fluctuates as matter-antimatter interaction, itís not like itís a steady lake. Itís a pool the size of the universe. So, for what we would use it for, youíd never even miss it.

This one researcher claimed if you bottle it and move it to another location and release it, youíd create a tear in the time domain of local space and actually cause a problem, which he claims he did, and he will never do it again.

Also, it doesnít work in conventional jet engines. One has to create an actual zero-point energy engine to do that. This researcher in Ann Arbor, Michigan had one running in his basement. It was not connected to any power source whatsoever, sitting in the middle of a table, and it had been running for a year.

But, none of these researchers would have an inkling of how you would build a ship the size of a football field and make it move at the speeds that apparently it [the one near St. Louis] moved. Speedís actually the wrong word, because conventionally, we think of this as speeding through space, but what if it really acts like some of the high-energy particles at CERN? They really transfer into energy and reappear over here, and there was no mass that went anywhere ó because all mass is solid energy. The conventional wisdom is that a complex organic structure like [a human] cannot transfer back and forth from energy to solid, but thatís just because weíve never seen it done.

What you represent is solid energy. You think youíre solid, right? In fact, the distance between the atoms in your body [is] almost exactly relatively proportional to the same distance as the planets around the sun. So, if you could look at your individual atoms, you would be 98 percent space. If you were the equivalent of a neutron star, which is only the nucleus and the electrons compressed, you would fit on the point of a pin. When you really get down to what youíre made out of, the total state of you is on the point of a pin.

James S. McDonnell [who founded McDonnell-Douglas Aircraft] actually had an institute to study paranormal psychology. Thatís why his airplanes were named Banshee and Phantom. He was an Irishman who was very much interested in the spiritual world and the paranormal, and he had part of his research department working with [his] foundation to study the paranormal.

[See the testimony of Dr. Robert Wood confirming this. SG]

The "Great Randi", the magician, infiltrated his organization and actually, for about six months, did sleight-of-hand experiments to [deceive] him. There would be something really there, and then heíd discredit it ó the head of the research department eventually would not even talk about anything related to this.

The guy in Ann Arbor that had the zero-point energy machine actually came to McDonnell-Douglas. He and his partners came in, and they were going to talk about this hydrogen motor that they had. I got invited to the meeting, and about halfway through it, I just said, guys, you have a zero-point energy machine ó why donít you admit it? The head of the research department who was discredited [by Randi] was put off when the inventors discussed this. [He] had the guards come in and escort them off the plant, because the head of research was just so terrified of this happening again ó he thought it was pseudoscience. I said, itís not pseudoscience; itís just beyond what we know right now.

[There are many accounts of people infiltrating operations to discredit or spin an area of research so it is ridiculed, thus keeping it out of mainstream development and acceptance. SG]

Parapsychology ó how do you measure it? The only people I know that have come close are the Russians in their parapsychology institutes, most of which are all now defunct. They had some very interesting twins that they were doing experiments with: they were measuring something that was occurring between the two of them, in their brains, so they could actually know what the other one was thinking. Itís utterly amazing ó the spectrum of electromagnetics that are going on inside the brain.

The Russians have done a lot with whatís called scalar waves and different spectrum electromagnetics within the brain. Theyíre convinced that you can explain parapsychology, if you could ever find out what it is that youíd have to measure to prove that itís occurring. But, they just got to the edge of perhaps measuring something.

Itís all based on physics. If itís scalar waves, then youíre in a whole other avenue of physics that [is] very controversial. Tesla was very, very much into those. The difficulty with Tesla, is that when he passed away, J. Edgar Hoover came in and confiscated almost everything. When his maid discovered him dead, she didnít discover him dead alone ó she discovered five FBI agents in his room pilfering everything, and he was [lying] on the bed dead. His nephew sued the U.S. government and won back, theoretically, all of his equipment, experiments, and records.

[See government documents at the end of this interview! SG]

There were, theoretically, fifty boxes [of records, etc.], but they only got forty-five of those in Belgrade. The other five are missing, and a whole bunch of stuff is missing.

We also found a record of a submarine that was in the Mediterranean in 1917 [or] 1918. Tesla, in New Jersey, put one of these antennas in the ocean, right off the coast, and [one] on the shore. Heís holding a conversation with the captain of the submarine ó one of the guys actually dug out of the Navy records the log of the submarine, and it essentially says: some idiot whoís claiming he is in New Jersey is talking to me; he must be absolutely crazy because I know I am 100 feet underwater, and no one can be talking to me from New Jersey ó and he had the matching language in Teslaís logbook. So, what was that? People say no ó it was an accident, it was a coincidence, etc., but there are a lot of things we canít explain that people have actually done.

Back when I was a young engineer at McDonnell in the 1960s, we routinely designed for the Air Force and the Navy airplanes that flew at Mach 4 and 6. The Vietnam War interfered with most of that, but we had running engines that would fly Mach 6, easily. We actually had tested engines that would fly the Mach 12 airplanes. In fact, in 1966 a fellow by the name of Bill Esher ó heís still alive, working for SAIC in Huntsville ó had on the test stand an engine that was within 5 percent of predicted performance of Mach 8 conditions at about 120,000 feet, and it ran for about 20 minutes. We were convinced we could build them then. Whatís fascinating is I got to see the X-33 a couple weeks ago. They had this new breakthrough ó a new shingle technology that allowed the inside of the airplane to be room temperature, while the shingles reflect the heat. We built almost exactly the same structure in 1965 and tested it to Mach 12 conditions. It is a little bit more elegant than what we had, because they have more elegant materials these days, but we were convinced we could do it then. People laugh at you and say, no you couldnít, or no, itís impossible, weíre not going to do that because itís risky. But no, it wasnít risky, and yes, it could be done. All it takes is a dreamer.

Can you imagine the Wright brothers if one was a lawyer, and one was an accountant? They would say: "Why do you have to build a stupid airplane? It only carries one person. Whoís going to buy it; what kind of profit margin are we going to get? Weíve got 40 percent on bicycles; what are we doing this for? Think of the liability ó everybody can sue us. Itís a bad idea; letís not do it." As long as we have that mind-set, weíre stuck. What you have to say is: "By gosh, itís something that no oneís ever done before; letís try it."

If I were to look at [the period of time] since my first introduction to UFOs as a young lieutenant, to today, I would say thereís a large number of covert projects that go on in the United States that none of us are ever aware of. If you saw some of those things, they would probably bend your mind, and they would not fit your conception of what an airplane is ó so it seems to you to be a UFO. So, maybe a large fraction of those [suspected UFOs] are covert projects that weíre doing, or someoneís doing, that are Earthbound [technologies]. If you really knew what was behind them, you would say, yes, I can see how that works.

[See the testimony of Mark McCandlish regarding functioning antigravity vehicles made by humans, and which could easily be misidentified as extraterrestrial vehicles. It is clear from many insiders with whom I have spoken that we have both man-made exotic craft as well as ET craft ó and they are all called UFOs. SG]

I think itís like Project Bluebook: thereís this hardcore 10-15 percent, or 20 percent, that donít fit any explanation other than the fact that the beings that are in the UFOs came here by way of a process that weíre not familiar with ó and that is time-space travel. I firmly believe that some of those are like that.

Almost anything you can think of can be turned around and used as a weapon. When you get into this kind of energy, and energy-time transitions, they can be used to just wipe out whole segments of the population on the Earth ó and they can be made to liberate us from all dependence on fossil fuels.

[It is obvious that in order for humanity to continue with adequate technologies for long-term sustainability, peace is the first requirement. We are clearly at the point in our evolution where the option to use such technologies for war means the end of our civilization. SG]

First of all, the ballistic missile defense system is probably a pipe dream, in the sense that what itís designed for is assuming that you know where [the threat] is coming from. When we had Russia, there was a 50-50 chance that you knew about where it would be coming from. With the rogue nations that we have today, itís absolutely ludicrous. The threat is the guy who walks in with the briefcase ó remember that in the 1950s, they built a nuclear warhead that has an eight-inch-diameter body. That was a quarter kiloton weapon. That will fit inside any briefcase you can think of. The guy may die carrying it, but heís going to die anyway, so what difference does it make? Iím far more afraid of that. If beings can travel in time-space, then anything we would put in orbit as a weapon would be like going against Genghis Khan with a firecracker. It doesnít make sense.

[Here he makes a very salient point regarding the weaponization of space: the real threats from Earth terrorists would not be addressed by such weapon systems, and the notion of using them against any extraterrestrial target borders on the suicidal, if not insane. These comments also support the idea that IF the extraterrestrials were hostile (thus requiring space weapons), Earth civilization could have easily been terminated around the time we detonated the first nuclear weapon. That we are still here is strong support for the assessment that the ET presence is not a threat and cannot be used as an excuse for space-based weapons. SG]

When we talk about zero-point energy, what that means is when everything comes down to rest, thereís still energy left. Itís like sea level in the ocean. There is a constant flow of energy between matter and antimatter, as it annihilates itself and recreates itself. It occurs in stars ó itís a continual exchange of energy. Although the average is zero, that zero may be a pretty high level above nothing at all. What Sakharov and some of the physicists said, is that itís this level that creates the background energy for the universe to exist.

When I got involved in space again with Sandy McDonald, and we started what eventually became the National Aerospace Plane, I met a group of Russians over in England at a conference. One of them had been involved in transmitting energy from an antenna on the ground to a satellite in orbit, and back down to Moscow, with only about 10-15 percent losses. He said the reason we can do this, is this is a scalar wave projector, and hereís what it uses ó he opens up his loose-leaf binder and says, "You canít take any pictures of this or make any sketches; just look at it."

And, lo and behold, thereís the tube I saw in Yugoslavia, which Tesla had built! This was the antenna that Caspar Weinberger was saying was the antiballistic missile weapon [the Russians allegedly had]. He says if you ever go in the building [where this scalar device is located], all youíre going to see is an empty concrete building with a couple of cables ó because itís not an anti-ballistic missile radar ó itís a scalar wave transmitter. Finally, when the U.S. DoD got in there, they found an empty concrete building with a couple of wires in it, and they said, "Ah, they pulled everything out." But, he says it never was in there. He claims he transmitted up to 10 megawatts of power from this station, to a satellite, to Moscow, and got about 8.5 to 9 megawatts of power back in Moscow.

[Note that Dr. Carol Rosin also confirms that the U.S. exaggerated the anti-missile threat of the Soviets ó we were claiming that they had Ďkiller satellitesí when they did not. SG]

They were on the verge of understanding how you do some of these unconventional things, but all of that is now gone. I donít know where he is. He lost his job, [and] his institute disappeared, so a lot of that work just collapsed in the Soviet Union.

[See also the testimony of Lt. Col. Bearden and David Hamilton.]

Thatís the same tube that Tesla said he could [use to] transmit energy to Mars ó the surface of Mars ó and support a human colony, or [the same] to the surface of the Moon. Once you actually do that, fuel doesnít become a problem anymore in orbit: you just use one of these tubes to generate the power directly to the right antenna, and you can fly to the moon, you can fly into orbit, you can do anything you want.

The people that have access to [these advanced energy technologies] donít know how to let go of it, because theyíre afraid of whoís going to get their hands on it. Even though there would be a tremendous benefit to mankind, theyíre also worried that somebody could take that same energy source and do the equivalent of what they did with the USS Cole ó instead of blowing a hole in the side, they could just obliterate the whole ship.

The black budget world is like trying to describe Casper, the friendly ghost. You might see a cartoon of him, but you donít know how big he is, you donít know where his funding comes from, you donít know how many there are, because of the compartmentalization and the oath that people have to take. I know people today that worked on one of the things I worked on, and if you asked them about it ó even if it is being discussed on the Internet ó they would say: "No, I have no idea what youíre talking about." Theyíre in there seventies now, but they still absolutely would never admit that they even know what youíre talking about. You have no idea, but itís probably larger than you think. And again ó thereís a reason for it: you donít want people who would be hostile to you to know what you could do to them if they really caused a major catastrophe. If they knew that, you wouldnít prevent them from doing it ó they would just do it another way.

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