Start of Interview
Bill Ryan (BR): I want to thank you for coming forward to
talk to us about a very interesting experience that you had on September
11, 2001, when you were in the military, in a particular location, in a
position to witness some events which a lot of people might be very
And having given that teaser of an introduction, I invite you to say
whatever it is that you would like to say about yourself, what your
position was at that time, what you were doing, where you were, and how
come you got to be there.
Elizabeth Nelson (EN): OK. I was in the last six months of
my active duty, in training in the U.S. Army, still of the rank of a
Private, I believe, Private First Class. I was stationed at Fort Meade
under the Kimbrough Ambulatory Care Center Hospital.
Fort Meade also has on it the base of NSA, which is the National
Security Agency. And itís a fully operational hospital that houses
soldiers as trainees to continue and finish up their medical training.
My training was as a radiologic technologist, which is an X-ray tech.
And I had done, prior to that, a year and a half basic training, ENT
school, and the in-class aspect of my training at different bases.
BR: But despite the specialty, essentially you were a solider.
EN: Absolutely. I went through 13 weeks of intense basic training. I
prepared myself beforehand and I was running between nine and eleven
miles daily before I went into the military, six days a week, to prepare
myself. My whole idea... And doing yoga and meditation.
My idea was that: They will not break me physically. They will have
nothing to say to me physically and they wonít touch me. And in the
company of 160 soldiers, I was one of the top three females in the whole
company. And I never had a problem.
And so, after I finished that leg of my training and I went to Fort
Meade, I arrived there and had already planned to go home. Three weeks
into my time there I was allowed to have a leave, which was very rare.
You donít get very much of that time.
And then September 11th happened. I was so angry that they didnít allow
me to go home! On that day I remember we were all in the morning, and in
the morning we had to report to the hospital just like any hospital, for
preparing for the day.
BR: It was a routine day.
EN: A routine day.
BR: The start of that day.
EN: Normal day. And we had the early morning patients -- preparing
enemas, and upper-GIs. Theyíd drink the barium, and weíd look at their
And then after these were done in the morning, one of the soldiers, who
a more senior solider, a specialist, I believe, he was out in the lobby
and he came out into the back room where we were all were and he said:
Holy shit! I just saw a plane crash into one of the Twin Towers.
And the three of us were like: Really? Thatís really strange. And so we
walked out to the front desk.
BR: Heíd seen it on some television.
EN: He saw it on the hospital TV, right at the lobby...
EN: ...where you come in and check in for your x-rays. And we stood
there, me and him and two other soldiers and we looked at the TV and you
could see the smoke coming out of the building. And at that moment I saw
the next plane coming, crash into the other tower. Now both towers were
hit. And we all were just absolutely silent, you know. We knew what this
meant. This was intentional.
BR: OK. But what youíre saying here is that he saw the first plane hit,
captured on a live television camera somehow.
BR: Which has never been acknowledged in the public domain.
BR: So he saw the first plane crash, and then he came in to tell that to
EN: Mm hm. The department... it was just a big hallway. And he just saw
this, and he walked back, and there was maybe six or seven of us
standing there. And he said: Holy shit! Thereís a plane just crashed
into the tower.
And a few of us were like: What? Really? And we went to see for
ourselves and we were standing there watching this building on fire.
BR: One building on fire.
EN: Yes. And as we stood there, we saw the second plane come. And then
all of us, I think there was like four of us standing there at the
moment - me, him, two or three other people... two other people. Itís
hard to remember. Yes. And we stood there and said: Holy shit! That
wasnít an accident. Somethingís happening.
And just as, you know... I mean, I also have gone over this in my head
many times and thought: Well, maybe he... maybe a video camera... Maybe
he didnít see the plane actually crash in. Maybe the video camera was
focusing in on the tower burning. Or whatever. But I donít know. It
just... he said he saw it crashing in. So...
BR: Well, this is also...
EN: And I didnít doubt this, because I was so enclosed on the base and
the life on the base that... You donít see TV from the outside. You
BR: But you donít know what channel this was.
BR: This was some internal military hospital channel?
EN: Yes. And they do have regular channels like CNN or NBC or something.
But as far as I know, weíre not allowed to change it. We had no control
over this. The TV was set. So...
BR: And do you remember, was there any commentary, like any newscaster
saying: Oh my God! or...?
BR: It was just a picture?
EN: Just, yes, just a picture, and I donít... There wasnít any news.
There wasnít anybody running, as far as I remember.
And we didnít stay long at the TV because it happened almost immediately
that over the loud speaker following this... I would say within, you
know, ten minutes, somebody came over the loudspeaker - maybe even less
than ten minutes - for soldiers to report and to get their weapons.
BR: Get their weapons?
EN: To protect the base.
BR: As a standard procedure to an apparent attack on the base?
EN: Standard procedure. On-going. But not me. Not me, because I was in
BR: OK. And of course George Bush himself, in an apparent slip of the
tongue to the press, said that he had seen it and had said something
like, that he thought to himself: My God, thatís some terrible pilot.
And then he said that when he saw the second plane crash, he realized
that there was an attack. Thatís what he said. So he could have seen...
EN: What Iím talking about.
BR: ...whatever it was that youíre talking about. So it seems to be a
real event. OK. Talk us through what happened. What happened then with
you and your movements that day?
EN: So after this, the - I believe it was the First Sergeant of the
hospital and the Commander. A First Sergeant is in the Sergeant
rankings, and a Commander is in the Officer rankings. And they sort
The First Sergeant of our department gathered us all together, told us
that the soldiers that were stationed there, they needed to report to
the command center, basically.
And so, all the other departments of soldiers - the nursing department,
the clerical, administrational department - everybody sent their base
soldiers there and I didnít see them anymore. So basically the hospital
was not fully active at that point. Everything was on hold.
And those soldiers, my friends later told me that they were on 24-hour
duty shifts of manning the gates and patrolling the surrounding of the
area of the base.
For me and the one other student that was there, our First Sergeant --
she was a really nice woman, she was very sweet -- she offered us up to
the Commander of the Hospital, and I believe the Commander of the Base,
to be of service to them because we didnít have the right to bear arms
while weíre in training, or something like this, some logistical thing,
and so she gave us to them.
BR: Because it was something useful you could do?
EN: That we could be useful, because nobody was in the department
anymore, so we needed to: OK, get rid of these two soldiers. You can
EN: And so I remember the room that they took us into. And they told us
that we were in charge of, you know, getting coffees, any kind of snacks
from the cafeteria - not cafeteria, like from the snack machines or from
the place where you can get little snacks - in charge of making
photocopies because she and I had the access codes for the rooms, to get
BR: Because these guys were having a meeting.
BR: It was a major meeting precipitated by the fact that this event had
BR: And thatís all you knew at that point.
EN: Thatís all that I knew. And it was made very clear to us that we
were not to look at them. We were... they sat us in chairs at the far
end of the room, not facing them and we were told to look at the wall
and not listen to anything we heard. This was our direct orders.
And so, she and I sat there staring at the wall, sometimes, you know,
nudging each other or, you know, [makes whispering sounds] or talking a
little bit or something, but really being very soldierly about this.
And there was probably six or seven men around this very large table,
just like you would see in a big office somewhere. And they had this
funny phone. It was like a conference-call phone. And I remember them
sitting there and they were talking through this phone. And it seemed to
me that they were talking to one or two other places.
BR: Any idea who or where?
EN: You know, my feeling now was that they were communicating with
someone from West Point, something that had to do with West Point, which
is a military base as well, based on the Hudson River in New York, about
an hour north of New York City.
And so I... That was my feeling, some reason because of location. And I
really think that I heard this somewhere because it stuck in my head
over these years that... Something with West Point.
BR: Did you know the names and ranks of the people in the room?
EN: I do not know the names and ranks of the people in the room. I do
know that it was, at the time, the head Commander of the Hospital, and I
believe the Commander of the Base.
BR: These are two different men youíre talking about.
EN: Yes. Thereís the guy who oversees the hospital, and then thereís the
guy that oversees the base.
EN: I donít know their ranks but they were... In my opinion, they were
the top-ranked in the room. And then there were other Officers and
other... maybe a few First Sergeants in the room as well.
BR: And the conversation around the table was like: OK, guys, whatís
going on here?
EN: OK, guys, whatís going on here. I felt stress, and some
unknowingness, and some fear, but they hold it so well, really. They
hold themselves together.
And then the topic turned to a plane that was flying in a no-fly zone
near to Camp David and heading towards Site R. I had no idea what Site R
was. And to me Camp David was a place where George Bush went on
vacation. I didnít know any more than that.
BR: And this was information that was coming in on this telephone from
EN: Yes. Yes. And they were discussing this, of... Protocol is that this
is a no-fly zone. We have to take this plane down. Yes, itís a passenger
plane. It needs to be taken down. Itís a no-fly zone. And so...
BR: Was there talk of hijackers and an attack?
BR: Was that part of the conversation?
EN: No. I donít... I didnít hear a thing about hijackers. We just heard
that this plane was flying in a no-fly zone and they couldnít make
contact with the plane, or something like this. There was no
communication. Protocol says it has to be taken out. And so I was in
this room when the decision was mutually made by the people talking on
the phone in the room that I was in, to shoot this plane down.
BR: And so... OK, let me feed this back to you. What youíre saying then
is that you heard in real time, and you were there in the room where the
order was given... was first of all discussed, agreed, and then given by
a decision-maker. Was that somebody in the room? Or was that one of the
guys...? Who was it that said why they were going to do this?
EN: I think it was in agreement, that these two to three groups that
were talking agreed this needs to be done: OK. Everybody in this room,
do you agree? Yes. OK. You guys agree. OK, we go for this, then.
I think it wasnít... No, actually there... I do remember one man, the
lead man in the room, leading the show and everybody else followed.
But he wasnít just saying: OK, we shoot it down out of the sky without
these other people on the phone agreeing.
They had said this was what they... standard protocol, canít make
contact or something. And then it was like: OK. Then we must do this. We
have to do this. And then everybody in the room agreed with the one
person, you know, doing the communications.
It wasnít the whole time just one person communicating. A couple of them
would talk in and out, but this guy seemed to be the ďchefĒ of the room.
BR: He was driving it, is what you are saying.
EN: Yes. It didnít feel like anybody knew that there was anything with
BR: I mean, there was no talk of terrorists on this plane. There was an
unknown situation, a plane that couldnít be communicated with.
EN: Unknown situation.
BR: Was there any reference to the attack on the Twin Towers that youíd
seen on the television? They must have talked about this.
EN: Yes. Well, they had seen this and this was part of the reason why
they didnít know what the destination was for this.
BR: OK. Now, was this the first time youíd heard a reference to Site R?
BR: What is Site R?
EN: From what I learned afterwards, because we had a medical unit
deployed for two weeks out to Site R, and one of the x-ray techs was a
very good friend of mine. Site R is an underground city under a mountain
in Pennsylvania, completely isolated and fully secure, with similar
things like Area 51 where they can tell if a mouse is moving in a huge
radius around this mountain.
And you have to go through several gates, and check, after check, after
check. And itís heavily guarded, with a huge metal door that opens into
a city thatís just like a military base under the ground.
BR: And that was the first time youíd heard any mention of Site R? It
wasnít part of your training or anything like that at all?
BR: I looked it up, because you and I had talked about this briefly
before, when you gave me an overview of your experience. So I went and
checked it out, and here it is. Take a look.
EN: Mm hm. Site R...
BR: You know, youíre welcome to read that to the microphone.
EN: [reading] The Raven Rock Mountain Complex, RRMC, is a United States
government facility on Raven Rock, a mountain in the US state of
Pennsylvania. Itís located about 14 kilometers east of Waynesboro,
Pennsylvania and 10 kilometers north-east of Camp David, Maryland.
Iíve never seen this before.
[reading] It is also called the Raven Rock Military Complex, or simply
Site R. Other designations, and nicknames include The Rock, National
Military Command Center Reservation, and Alternate National Military
Command Center. Alternate Joint Communications CenterÖ Backup PentagonÖ
BR: Thatís exactly what you said, isnít it?
EN: This is the housing-place of the representatives and the congressmen
and all of the... Itís not for the people. Itís for the government so
they can hide. [laughs]
[reading] Backup Pentagon, or Site RT. The latter refers to the vast
array of communication towers and equipment atop the mountain. Itís
known as the Underground Pentagon.
This is fascinating. [laughs] [reading] Its largest tenant is not the
Defensive Threat Reduction Agency. The largest tenants are the Alternate
National Military Command Center or Joint Staff Support Center.
[reading] 114th Signal BattalionÖ Emergency Operations Center. Thatís
what we had sent the medical team out to, was the Emergency Operations
BR: So there it is. Itís obviously a classified facility but its
existence is in the public domain. It stands to reason that there would
be a no-fly zone around this thing.
And what really fascinates me about this story is that what youíre
saying is that youíre blowing the whistle, if I can use that term, on
the fact that Flight 93 - it WAS shot down, which will come as no
surprise to anyone whoís been paying any attention to this over the
EN: Mm hm.
BR: But that the order to do that was given by people who had no idea --
assuming it was true that 9/11 was an inside job. They believed that
this was real. They didnít know what was happening. They were following
strict, very well-defined, military protocol.
If youíve got a plane flying towards a secure military establishment
that wonít respond, it doesnít matter whoís onboard, the protocol says
that you shoot it down.
Because, in a war setting that morning after the tower in New York --
seen from these guysí points of view, who presumably werenít in the loop
-- they have to assume that there could be an atomic weapon onboard,
there could be high explosives, there could be anything at all. And they
have to do what the military do best. Is that an accurate summary of
EN: I can merely say that if the people in the room knew about this,
they are amazing actors and they should be in Hollywood movies, because
the feeling in there was really like: We have just a little bit of time
to decide before itís too late.
You could feel the intensity in this room, you know? I mean... and these
men werenít heartless men. I didnít feel them to be heartless.
BR: Sure. They were doing their job.
EN: They were doing their job.
BR: They were doing their job. OK. Is there anything else which you
observed or experienced in that room, or on that day, thatís worth
reporting on record here? Were you in the room when the plane was shot
down? Did you hear any confirmation of this? Do you remember a reaction?
EN: I donít remember a reaction, but I remember sitting in this room for
a long time. I remember sitting in this room.
And I remember the distinct feeling inside of me of when I saw on the
news that there was this story that there were terrorists on this plane,
and that the people overtook the pilot and crashed the plane, - I mean,
overtook the terrorists and crashed the plane themselves. And how this
was leaking out as these people being heroes.
And I remember the extreme moral frustration inside of me, of feeling:
But thatís not true! Thatís not true at all! We shot this down. And a
huge conflict inside of me, of knowing that the world is made to believe
this story thatís not true.
And how people just buy this. And I felt that that was really wrong, you
know. Why couldnít they just say: Strict military protocol. Itís a
no-fly zone. Sorry.
BR: Yes. Itís interesting to debate, isnít it? That, taking what you
experienced at face value, actually itís the proper thing to do.
BR: But itís kind of like somebody seemed to have made a decision
without the courage necessary to say: Look, weíre sorry there were folks
onboard that plane, but we had to do what we had to do because of what
had happened in New York just a little while earlier.
EN: Absolutely. Itís what it is.
BR: Interesting. So what youíre saying then, again in summary, is, based
on what you observed, you attach no blame or involvement or anything to
those people in that room who made that decision, because they were
doing their jobs.
EN: Yes. I donít feel like they knew anything else. I feel like it was a
chaotic time, you know, where a decision needs to be made in haste, as
quickly as possible. And I felt like everybody felt like it was the
right thing to do.
Like I said, if anybody knew this that this was something inside, they
were really great actors. They should be up there with John Wayne.
BR: OK. So you were in that room for a very long time, you just said.
EN: Mm hm.
BR: Did this meeting continue? Or did they... I mean, what happened at
EN: It continued. I had to go make copies of some things. I came back
with some sandwiches or something at some point for the men. And then I
sat and I waited.
My First Sergeant came and checked on me and the other student as well,
just to see if we were OK. We said we were fine and then she told us
that after, when we were let go by them, we were free to go back to our
And I remember going back to our dormitories. We all lived in separate
little rooms, and I remember just really being very scared of whatís
going to happen. And the woman that was a friend of mine, she was a
stationed soldier there, and she didnít come back that night because she
had to be on guard.
Things were just really chaotic on the base. And there was a big fear in
the air about: Would Fort Meade be a target because of the NSA? And I
remember hearing that if they were, a plane were to crash into NSA, the
whole security of the world would be down -- whether or not thatís true.
If we would lose all communication with bases and security across the
world, I donít know, but I remember hearing this and thinking: Wow! That
would be really scary, you know, if we lost all communication access and
security values, worldly.
So this was in the air. People were afraid: Are we going to be attacked?
And because there was things in New York, something in Pennsylvania, and
then something in Washington, DC, it literally made a circle around our
EN: And so there was the thing of: Are ships coming in? Is something
going to happen here? Whatís going on?
BR: Yes. What else is there that we donít know about?
BR: Sure. Yes. Seen from a standard military viewpoint, you can really
understand and sympathize with this situation. Absolutely. Now, did you
have a chance to talk with your fellow trainee when you were relieved
from your duty in the room? Or the next day? Or whenever?
EN: Yes. We talked about... We talked after. Yes. I remember we went
home together because she had a car. But actually neither of us wanted
to talk about it. We just wanted to go home.
And I remember exactly what I did when I got home. [laughs] I have this
CD. Itís called Peace of Mind. I put it on. I laid on my bamboo carpet
on the floor and I laid there and I let myself fall into the floor, like
EN: I was so overwhelmed. And I remember it was hard for her and I,
after that, to really connect. I think we both felt like, in a way our
mentality had been violated, if that makes sense. Itís almost like
youíre too young and you heard too much. Itís too overwhelming, you
We heard things that we knew nobody else would know and that we were not
supposed to say anything. And it actually led to an interesting
experience because we both had this We canít talk about this feeling
Totally different subject, but the same girl and I... A few weeks later,
I think sometime the end of October, the two of us were running in the
morning or in the afternoon or something near the golf course and we
heard someone screaming for help.
And the two of us looked in this direction and saw that there was an old
man on the ground. And so she ran. And I jumped in front of a Porsche
with the Commander in it, and I told him to call the hospital, and they
sent an ambulance.
She and I went to this man and he was having a heart attack. We both
started CPR on him until... A man from the marines came at that moment,
and I was so grateful he did the mouth-to-mouth. [laughs] I didnít
really want to do that, but I would have.
This was my first confirming experience of the spirit. I was checking
his pulse, undoing his pants to relieve any circulation, and I saw his
spirit rise up out of his body, literally, like a blue-greenish hue just
lifting up out of him. And at this moment I felt completely peaceful,
like: OK, heís gone. And then I went and I consoled his friends.
And why Iím saying this is because she and I never told anybody about
this. We never told anybody that we tried to save this manís life. He
ended up dying. He was revived enough but he died later in the hospital.
We didnít say a thing, the two of us. We never talked about it. We
didnít say anything. And I know that is because we had this thing: We
canít say anything. Both of us were afraid.
Somebody later approached us and we wound up getting awards and ribbons
for Outstanding Action in the Military.
BR: Because of that?
EN: Because we went out of our way to give medical attention to a
BR: OK. At what point, then, did you connect in with the mainstream
media to find out what they were saying about all of this?
EN: I didnít have television in my room... and there wasnít so much
internet at that time, or, I wasnít so into internet at that time.
A few months later I was granted leave to go home. It might have been
Thanksgiving or something. Or maybe I heard it from family or a friend
that this is what had happened.
BR: You mean the whole modern myth that they...
BR: ...that the plane crashed.
EN: Is that what you meant? Yes. I didnít know - I didnít have TV, I
didnít have access. I didnít listen to the radio.
And I remember my brother came to pick me up at the base once, and he
took me out into the city, and I remember he and I were talking about
it. He was really big into reading the Illuminati Trilogies, and just
really into these things anyhow, so he asked me a lot of questions. And
in this I know that we talked about this as well, and I told him. He was
the first person I talked to about any of this, and I told him
everything at the time.
But I didnít hear about it on the base, as far as I recall. I didnít
know about this.
EN: But I also remember the confronting feeling when I would be around
... because there were civilians that worked in the hospital as well.
And then when they would talk about the heroes and these things, the
conflict that I had inside of myself was wanting to bust out and say:
Thatís not true!
They didnít crash the plane. If they would have crashed it, there would
have been a skeleton of the plane. There was no... Nothing. It was blown
BR: Yes. It was blown to pieces. Yes. So how... I mean, here we are
seven and half years on and youíve talked to a lot of people, given this
a great deal of thought, read a lot of stuff thatís out there debating
all of this.
How do you reconcile what happened in that room with the huge pile of
evidence that this was in some way a manufactured event, a modern Pearl
In this conversation we donít need to go into that, but I am just
interested in what your personal opinion is of the fact that thereís an
interesting irony here, that although youíre blowing the whistle on the
fact that this plane was shot down, youíre actually giving support to
what a lot of military people, good military people, would say: We
didnít have a clue what was happening that day. Nobody knew.
And so, thereís an interesting intellectual conflict here with this
information that surrounds us. Whatís your resolution of that?
EN: Well, sometimes I feel kind of confused about it because I think:
Well, OK. I can see the rationale and I understand. It seems very
logical and clear to me why the Twin Towers were taken out, why they
It makes sense to me, all the evidence. Iíve seen so many movies, you
know. This was planned. It was detonated just like a demolition.
But why? Why had they also arranged a third plane? OK, so if the US
government arranged to have these two towers taken out, why had they
arranged a third plane? And where was this third plane heading?
Because to blow something like the cover of Site R doesnít help the
military. Do you see what Iím saying?
BR: Uh huh.
EN: So I donít understand why this third plane would even be playing a
part in this. It doesnít affect that.
The only thing I can think is if the third plane was also intended for
somewhere in the city [New York City] as well, and that the people
actually did take over the hijackers and divert the plane so that the
plane ended up flying aimlessly someplace else. And of course the people
donít know how to talk over the radio or any of these things. And thatís
maybe something that happened.
And I have seen in a video, when you see the second plane crash in,
thereís a third plane in the distance moving away from the city. I feel
BR: Yes. That third plane... we're told by our witness, Henry Deacon --
itís known by researchers as ďthe white planeĒ. Nobody really knows what
it is. That was the data-relay plane. Signals were sent to that plane
from thousands of miles away, which were then relayed as a local
control-point to the two planes that flew into the two towers.
BR: So that was like, it was basically a local radio relay point, that
third plane. Thatís what it was.
BR: We have that on record.
BR: And what Henry told us was that, although he didnít know what the
whole operation was until the morning when he was briefed about it, he
had prior to that been working on the electronics hook-up for this
remote control situation.
BR: And he actually describes how he was shocked when he was briefed
early in the morning at his place of work, like: When you see all this
stuff thatís going to happen which will be reported television later
today, donít worry about a thing. This is just one of our projects. Just
forget about it.
And everyone just nodded and went back to the work. They didnít even
react to the plan that thousands of people would be murdered.
Henry was shocked. He was shocked by realizing what it was that he had
been asked to work on, because up until then he hadnít really known, and
also by the reactions of his colleagues.
And then he had several hours of deep inner conflict because he could
have sabotaged the whole thing by bugging the radio relay system. And he
didnít do that. And he lives with that. And of course, if he had done
it, they would have found out within hours and heíd be a dead man, or as
good as. But he didnít do anything he could have done.
EN: Yes. So I guess I really donít... It doesnít make sense to me.
BR: At the highest level that occurs to me is... Of course, the thing is
highly compartmentalized, as it is in all projects.
Thereíll be a group of people in the military, and in politics, and
intelligence, who knew that this was an inside job. Of course theyíre
not going to tell everybody. Theyíre just going to tell the few who need
Their very objective of compartmentalization actually comes out in a
story like this. Thereís this... Itís this incredible irony that youíre
blowing the whistle actually on this situation that shows that there
were senior Commanders who didnít know what was going on. Thatís one of
the reasons why they didnít know, in case anything like this ever came
Itís sort of how they think, often thinking in defensive terms like:
What happens? If this information leaks, then what? Then what? Then
what? So they keep it pretty tight.
BR: Itís an extraordinary story. What was it that made you feel that it
was the right thing to do to tell this story? Because you must... I
mean, you spent a lot of time thinking about this and keeping it to
yourself, as you had sort of trained yourself to do.
EN: I donít think that I had found anybody that I would really want to
talk to about this. I have a friend who has urged me to write about this
in a book and I never felt like that was necessary for me to do that.
I feel like itís necessary that people hear this information and Iíve
never been afraid that what I know... because actually, to me, I know
this. This is what was. Itís kind of logical [laughs] for me. Itís
practical that it happened like this.
You have to make up a story and lie to make it not like this, is how I
see it. And also I just felt like I never had a place where this
information could be held and given in a good way.
Itís not like I would call Fox News, or something, you know?
BR: Yes. Right.
EN: And more and more it really took some time and some prodding to dig
this out. Like I said, most of my abilities to remember things of my
three years in the military are only by recall if someone asks me a
question, or if somebody asks me to think about something. Most of it is
a compartmentalized part of my memory that I donít think about very
BR: Yes. It might be worthwhile just mentioning that as part of this
process and in preparation for this conversation, you called somebody
who you had spoken with and trusted at the time, to check whether you
were remembering things clearly. Is that right?
EN: Thatís correct. And I actually didnít tell him. I asked him to tell
EN: And he did it, word for word. Other than the minor little
remembering details, he told me exactly what I told you today.
BR: I guess thatís confirmation that youíve got it nailed, that youíre
not making something up. He said: Yes. This is what happened, bang,
bang, bang, bang. This is what you told me at the time.
BR: Yes. Itís a very, very important story.
BR: We will do what we can to draw the attention of 9/11 researchers to
this. I donít know whether they can draw any staggeringly startling
conclusions from it. Theyíll probably say two things.
Theyíll probably say: This is great. We thought it was heavily
compartmentalized, and now we know it must have been. And yeah, it was
shot down, which we always knew anyway - but itís nice to hear it from
Because nobody has ever come forward on the record to say: Yes. It was
shot down because of standard military protocol. Nothing nasty. Nothing
evil. They were just doing their job.
EN: Mm hm.
BR: Very, very interesting story. Is there anything else that you want
EN: I just feel like, if this could inspire others to come forward and
if they also know things like this, that would be fabulous. Because
maybe there are some things that I donít have correctly, but itís a step
closer towards the truth.
And thatís the most important thing.