2003
from GreatDreams Website

Introduction

John Lear, retired airline captain, with over 19,000 hours of flight-time, has flown in over 100 different types of planes in 60 different counties around the world.

Son of Lear Jet inventor, Bill Lear, John is the only pilot to hold every FAA airplane certificate, to include airplane transport rating, flight instructor, ground instructor, flight navigator, engineer, aircraft dispatcher, airframe powerplant mechanic, parachute rigger, and tower operator.

He flew secret missions for the CIA in Central and Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa between 1966 and 1983. He has flown as Captain and check pilot for over 10 different airlines.

John held 17 world records including speed around the world in a Lear Jet Model 24, set in 1966. He was presented with the PATCO award for outstanding airmanship in 1968, and the Symons Wave memorial. He was the youngest American to climb the Matterhorn in Switzerland in 1959 and in the 1970's owned and skippered the Americas Cup boat, the Soliloquy, out of Marina Del Rey.

In 1968, John raced a Douglas B26 Invader in the unlimited class at the Reno air races.

He was a Senior Vice Commander of the China Post 1, the American Legion Post for Soldiers of Fortune. He is a 20 year member of the special operations Association.

John is the current owner and operator of the only permitted gold mine operation Cutthroat Mining Corporation in Clarke County, Nevada. His efforts to clean up the Treasure Hawk Gold Butte mine won him the state of Nevada award for excellence in mining reclamation in 1999. John is a MSHA (Mine, Safety, and Health Administration) and holds a blaster license from the Nevada certified mining instructor from the Nevada State Fire Marshall.

John's passion for the preservation and documentation of the history of the Gold Butte has made him a authority on the area.

John has been a resident of Las Vegas since 1994 and was a republican State Senate candidate in 1980.

John has 4 daughters, 2 grandchildren, and lives with his wife in Las Vegas. - Las Vegas businesswoman, Mary Lee Lear in Sunrise Manor.

In 1988, John met and became friends with Bob Lazar, the government scientist who worked on the back-engineering of the propulsion system of the extraterrestrial UFOs at area S-4. That's just outside the infamous and ultrasecret Area 51.

In March 1989, Lazar took John to an area close to Rachel Nevada where he witnessed the flight of a flying saucer at the exact time Lazar told him it would occur.

Two weeks later on another UFO spying mission, John, Lazar and 3 others were caught by security forces - (that's CAUGHT folks) - and the next day, - the very next day - Lazar lost his job at the government program for that breach of security. Lazar has been branded by many as a fraud, a charge to which John responds,

"Those who say that Lazar was a fraud simply don't know the facts of this incredible 12 month period. I was there - they weren't."

During the late 1980's, John tracked down and found the Army Intelligence Analyst who read, probably by accident, the U.S. government report Grudge 13, which documented the history of the U.S. UFO coverup and details of saucer recoveries, disposition of their occupants, and handling (That's HANDLING) of civilian witnesses.

The report included clear photographs of these recovered extraterrestrial craft and beings - (that's BEINGS) found inside. It further detailed how recoveries were made worldwide and specially designed transports to accommodate the craft.

John spent time poking around other UFO related areas to include Dulce, Secora, Aztec, Alamagorda, Albuquerque, Los Alamos and Bentwaters airbase near London.

Since that time, John has learned many incredible and interesting facts about the solar system and planets including the existence of huge structures, arches, bridges and domes on the moon, cities on Mars, huge extraterrestrial ships mining the rings of Saturn, the incredible but secret agenda of Apollo 17, to the huge rectangular opening in the south massif of the Taurus-Littrow Highlands called Nansen (fig. below).

NASA Photo ID: AS17-137-21011 File Name: 10075963.jpg
Film Type: 70mm Date Taken: 12/12/72
Title: View of lunarscape at Station 4 with Astronaut Schmitt working at LRV

Description: A view of the lunarscape at Station 4 (Shorty Crater) showing
Scientist-Astronaut Harrison H. Schmitt working at the lunar roving vehicle
(LRV) during the second Apollo 17 extravehicular activity (EVA-2) at the
Taurus-Littrow landing site. (Lunar landing site: 20.2 N, 30.8 E )
This is the area where Schmitt first spotted the orange soil.
Orange soil is clearly visible on either side of the rover in
this picture. Shorty Crater is to the right. The peak in the
center background is Family Mountain. A portion of South Massif
is on the horizon at the left edge. (Apollo 17 samples)
 

The Valley of Taurus-Littrow

The image below (fig.1) is a portion of Pan Camera frame AS17-2309 showing the South Massif at the upper right and the Sculptured Hills at the lower left. The North Massif is at the bottom right and Henry Crater is the rightmost of the three large craters in a triangular pattern at the foot of the mountain.

This orientation is to facilitate comparison with features in the Station 6 high resolution images below. See also the labeled version (fig.2) of this frame. The distance from Station 6 above Henry to the LM is 3.5 km; to Bear Mountain, about 8 km; and to the outcrop noted in 21498 below, about 18 km. Scans by Ron Wells.
 

Apollo 17 Pan Camera frame AS17-2309 Details
The frame was taken on December 11, 1972 at 23:47:38.1 GMT during CSM Rev 15 from an altitude of 113.07 km. In terms of the mission time, the photo was taken at 116:54:38 -- just seven minutes before Gene and Jack started their watches for the first EVA. John Pfannerstill has scanned three portions of the frame.

In the central area around the LM, the largest crater is Camelot at the upper left. A labeled version highlights the LM and Poppie. In the area north of the LM, covering the EVA-3 traverse, Henry is the large crater at the foot of the North Massif just above and to the right of the center of the image.

In the area west of the LM, covering the EVA-2 traverse, Nansen is at the lower left, Camelot is at the right edge above center, and Shorty is the sharp-rimmed, dark-edged crater at top center, about a Camelot diameter below the top edge of the image. Composite Version (fig.3)

    fig.1                                                              fig.2

fig.3

Art Bell continues John Lear's biography

John Lear suspects that Venus does not have the sulfuric acid atmosphere with an 800 degree temperature that we've all been led to believe and instead is a planet very similar to ours, but with a similar, but much more technologically advanced civilization.

John Lear believes that the government has very good reasons for their continued coverup but refuses to discuss them.

He also believes that the government never, ever intends to released any UFO information and if forced to say anything, will obscure, tangle and weave a deceptive lie.

Asked outright if the public has a right to know these facts, John says, "No! They don't!"

Why?

"Because!" was his admittedly evasive answer.

Then why, after 10 years of silence, is John Lear talking once again, after almost 60 years, the majority of U.S. population don't believe that Roswell happened.

"I certainly do not represent a threat to this kind of security", he responds.

Start of Interview between Art Bell and John Lear

A = Art Bell
J = John Lear

A - Other than the fact that we got in touch once again John, I really am curious. Why! After 10 years, why break your silence now? and Welcome!

J - Thank you Art, You mean I could have said, "No!" ?

A - laughs heartily - Yeah! Too late! laughs again. Yeah! You could have said, No! Sure! I'm - I'm serious - Why after 10 years of not a peep, why now?

J - Well you know, the government in charge of this coverup, - uh - works so well at making your life miserable when you go around talking about this stuff, that I quit and my life - the quality of my life improved about 200%. But now, the coverup is so well in place, that they certainly would not be threatened by me going on the radio just once and saying what I know.

A - Yeah! Well, you lost jobs because of this, right?

J - Yeah - I lost two. I lost one with an airline and one with a government program that I really wanted. It was with Lockheed, and they went for my clearance and they were told by the airforce that now - under no circumstances would John Lear ever get another clearance. Now - I had a clearance up at the test site for some work I did with Dyn-electron - it was just monitoring below ground tests from the air with different airplane, but - uh - that clearance is still there, - not active - but they weren't going to renew it under any circumstances and they made it plain - so its cost me a little bit, but I managed to survive.

A - Um - all right! You know - before we launch into the whole spectrum of things we have to talk about John, uh - when you and I were on the phone the other day, you began to tell me about 9/11 and I'd really would like to talk about that. Uh - you have a perspective on the 9/11 thing that people should at least hear. I mean - everybody can make up their own minds about it, but you're a commercial pilot and there are certain things you know. So how about it?

J - Well! This is a sensitive subject, and I told you that I was hesitant to talk about it.

A - That's why I'm bringing it up first! (Art laughs again)

J - But whoever concocted 9/11, and it certainly wasn't Osama Bin Ladin, they had two objectives - one was to polarize American's opinion against Arab-Muslims and number two was to get the United States - trick the U.S. - essentially to get Osama out of Afghanistan because Osama - as bad as he was - he was shutting down all the heroin poppy fields and was causing a disastrous monetary loss to the illegal drug industry - and last year, which was a year after we went into Afghanistan, National Geographic did a special on TV, that ran for several months and documented the 500% increase in drugs flowing out of Afghanistan 'after' we went in there and eliminated Osama.

A - laughs - They actually did. I recall that. I remember that report! Um - so you are sort of charging that we went in there after Osama - after Osama to rescue the drug trade?

J - No! Well - that wasn't what 'we' thought - we were sort of tricked into doing that. We were tricked into thinking that Osama was responsible for 9/11, but to get a proper perspective on who 'did' the World Trade Center - uh - you have to understand what a magnificent feat of airmanship this was. It was 'disastrous' and was horrible for this country, but this was not accomplished by some guys who went to Florida and got some instructions on a Cessna or a Piper and this was not accomplished by somebody who had a right seat on a 727.

A - What about simulators? Flight simulators?

J - This had to be accomplished by pilots who got instruction - were taken to 'honest-to-God' Boeing 757 simulators which is - you know - the 757 and 767 the same cockpit essentially and you get the same rating and whoever concocted this whole thing knew that on a particular day that airplanes themselves could be switched because of maintenance problems and by selecting airlines that had that airplane, they had everything covered.

A - Huh! So it actually took a fair amount of skill to plow into those buildings?

J - I would say that it took about 200 or 300 hours for each pilot - and we're talking about...

A - 200 or 300 hours? But you mean of simulator time?

J - Of simulator time! They had to learn how to step into the cockpit - and that's a whole thing - getting into the airplane, but that's separate from that - they had to get into the cockpit and pull the circuit breaker for the transponder - sit in the pilot seat, disconnect the auto-pilot from the flight management system - turn the airplane, push the throttles all the way forward, find Manhattan - then line up on a pre-planned course - doing 10 miles a minute - they were clocked by air traffic control doing 600 miles an hour at 700 feet above the ground and fly directly into the middle the center of the World Trade Center.

 

Now that - you know and the air races only fly 400 miles an hour and that's difficult - but to fly an airliner like the size of a 757 at 700 feet - I mean that took some skill and that took a long time to train that - probably a year.

A - That's wild (unintelligible)

J - In addition to that - hitting the Trade Center was a feat - but hitting the Pentagon was even more of a feat because when you are going that fast there is a tremendous amount of air creating this lift and as you head towards the ground, that air reacts against the wing and pushes you up, so whoever - whoever hit that - trained to hit the Pentagon at the 3rd story was highly trained because when he came towards the ground - there was a tremendous amount of lift and you would have to trim forward and push with an incredible amount of strength to not be pushed up and over the Pentagon to hit the 3rd story.

A - But what about the plane that went down that didn't make it - that was probably headed towards the Whitehouse?

J - uh - Well that was shot down by an F-16 out of a base south of New York and uh... 

A - How can you be so sure?

J - Well because there were parts found 5 miles away - uh - because there were eye-witnesses to it being shot down - uh - there is corroborating evidence somebody who was listening to a cell phone conversation at the time this was going on who said they heard the rapid - like the ... described it as a pilot rapidly turning pages - well - that's not what was happening - that was the cannon fire hitting the fuselage and that's what accounted for - what they called the 'smoke ' in the air in the cabin - well that wasn't smoke - that was the depressurization causing the condensation.

A - Well so you are saying definitely that you feel it was shot down... 

J - But you have to understand the governments position - #1 - they couldn't 'possibly' reveal this information because - you know - it was something they had to do - the problem was that once the passengers got control of the airplane there was no way to communicate with air traffic control or communicate with whoever was directing the attack for the airforce.

A - Now you say Osama Bin Ladin wasn't responsible but there are video tapes showing Osama with his Lieutenant sort of laughing and joking - they didn't expect such a grand result and all that baloney - what about that?

J - He might have been told at the last minute, but if that's all we've got, people say 'how come we haven't got him'? But the bottom line is, we don't want to get Osama - we'd have to put him on trial and other than that video tape, we don't have a 'shred' - not a 'shred' of evidence against him.

A - Uh huh! Yet, it might be enough in a court of law!

J - In a world court?

A - You might be right! Well! Uh - I don't know - You've shocked me with some of your views on the 9/11 business. No question about that! 100's of hours - Where would they get simulator training like that? - that many hours... 

J - Therein lies the problem. Because they 'certainly' couldn't waltz into any airline in the United States and get that kind of time - I mean most of the airlines in the US who have 757's use them 24 hours a day and they certainly aren't in the habit of renting - uh - to unauthorized people like somebody going in there saying 'Hey! give me 1500 hours of time" - Its just not going to happen. They would have to find another 757 elsewhere in the world and if you look around in the Middle-East and there's certainly none there because at least not in any Arab Country because they have airbusses - strictly airbusses - They would have to find 757's somewhere else.

A - How many simulators are there?

J - Well! There are lots of them - but uh - well - not lots of them - but there's certain around somewhere and they'd have to make a deal somewhere - obviously they got training because they couldn't do it without training.

A - But what we've been given by the media - by the mass media - you know - they were down in Florida - getting a few hours on lighter aircraft - that doesn't wash at all... 

J - No possibility! If you talk to any pilot that knows anything about this and that was - and that was a feat with the (unintelligible) with the benefit with 19,000 hours in all the airplanes I've flown including air races - the Douglas B-26, I doubt that I could have done that the 1st time... 

A - Really!

J - You are doing a mile every 6 seconds - so you had to learn where to line up, you know ... which reference points to get - you know - where to be at a particular time hit that building. It had to be planned for a long, long time. So this is a tremendous amount of skill, and it took a long time to do, particularly you know - they probably got somebody who didn't have thousands of hours - they probably had to train them from the ground up, and in this case it was relatively easy because they didn't have to learn how to take off and land - he didn't have to learn how do a single engine approach - he didn't have to learn to do a (unintelligible) or MBD approach, or anything like that ...

A - Just hit a building ...

J - Yeah!

Stop for Newsbreak!

Art continues the interview:

A - A lot of people listening tonight will have no idea of you and the year of Lazar - a lot of people of course are rather recent listeners and its been a decade although we have interviewed - I actually interviewed Bob Lazar not too long ago, John ...

J - Yes! I listened to it.

A - Ah - you did ... You heard it!

J - Yes!

A - Um - it might be really interesting to kind of get that period of time from you - for all the new listeners - there are so many ...

J - I served some time with Bob a month or so ago. I had an occasion to ferry an L 10-11 from where it was painted in the south - the name of the airport escapes me, but we took it up to Roswell - and as you know - Roswell is a - there is a huge airport - a repository for old airplanes - not old - well yeah - old airliners - there must be 200 of them there - just every kind you can imagine - L 10-11s, 747's, DC 10s, DC 9's ...

A - They are really kept there to avoid erosion that would occur elsewhere - right - its desert ...

J - Yeah - Mohave is one, Victorville is another - Roswell ... anyway - Well I went to Roswell - and coming back I took the bus from Roswell to Albuquerque and Bob picked me up and I spent a few days at his house and talked about old times and stuff ... and it was interesting, but how I got into all this was sometime in 1984-1985. I picked up a book "Missing Time" by Budd Hopkins - ...

A - Of course!

J - and when I read it - I said, "Holy Smokes! This is true!" I mean - it gave me chills and at that time I was flying with American Transair, and I was based in New York and I gave Budd a call and ended up over at his house and uh - I spent a fascinating evening with him and ummm - and that got me really interested.

 

And then ... Whitley Streiber wrote Communion and that was even more scary. I remember reading that book - and I went to the store to get it and I got a call to take a flight from Las Vegas to Cleveland and I remember flying the 727 on the way to Cleveland and reading this thing and how scary it was ... but anyway I got interested in all this ... lets see ... what happened next ... I went on this little tour around Colorado, New Mexico - checking out all these rumours - it was just 'fascinating ' and then I started to give lectures - and I gave - and at that time I was on my soap box and ... "We 'deserve' to know this stuff" and at that time I had no idea how heavily involved the government was in this - I thought they were really just dismissing it.

A - You went at this almost like an obsession ....

J - It 'was' an obsession... and it almost caused a divorce - because my wife turned off the phone - I mean - changed my numbers and um - it was a very - very turbulent time. But anyway, in the summer of 1988, a guy called up, during all of this turbulence, and he said, "Hey! I'd like to get a copy of your tapes." I said, "No! I'm out of this. I'm done with it. It's just a mess.!" He said, "Well! If you ever need an appraisal of your house, I'll trade you. I'm an appraiser." I said, "I'll tell you what. I need my house appraised. I'll trade you the tapes for the appraisal."

A - laughs. "Oh yes!"

J - So, he came over and he brought this guy named Bob Lazar to hold the measuring tape. Well, we sat down and talked about UFOs and Bob started this rolling his eyes and Bob said, "I've never heard to much BS in my life." He said, "I worked at Los Alamos. If this were true, I would have known it. I have the higher clearance." And, you know - people who have a II clearance say they have the highest. So anyway, over the next few months, we got together and me and Bob and I kept feeding Bob information and like about October or November, it became apparent to him something was going on, and I think there was two or three things I had said ...

 

One - I had said there was a facility called YY-II - a secret facility and that's where they keep the live aliens and I mentioned something else ... I forget what it was - but anyway, his friends at Los Alamos wrote him back and said, "Indeed there is a YY-II, but that doesn't mean their's an alien there, but there was a secret area ... but anyway ...Bob decided to re-enter the scientific community and Bob called Dr. Teller. I was there when he made the call and I reminded Dr. Teller of when he was at Los Alamos and asked him if he (Bob) could re-enter the scientific community. Dr. Teller said, "Do you want to work in Livermore, California, or do you want to work out there at Nellis?

 

Bob said, "I want to work at Area 51". Tell said, "Let me see what I can do." Well, the next thing I know is Bob has three security interviews down at EG&G Facility here and he mentioned to me after the second interview - they said, "Do you know John Lear, and what is your relationship with him?" Well Bob said, "Well! I know him. He's a person who sticks his nose where it doesn't belong." And Bob said when he told them that - what he didn't tell them that 'he' likes to stick his nose where it doesn't belong.

A - (chuckles)

J - So anyway, the next thing I know is in December of 1988, Bob shows up at my house in the evening and sits down. I'm wiped out - sitting down doing some paperwork and Bob sit in a chair in front of my desk and Bob says, "I saw a disk today!"

A - Here's where I want to stop you and ask you a quick question - you know - when Bob first came to you at the point you are talking about right now, what do you think his motivation was? Because - of course ....

J - Well - he told me what his motivation was. He said, "I saw a disk today". and I said, "What are you talking about? I said, "Theirs or ours?" He said, "Theirs!" I said, "Did you go to Area 51?" He said, "Yeah! I just got back!" I said, "Then what are you doing 'here' Bob? This is fantastic! ...obviously they followed you. I said, "Why don't you find out what's going on and 'then' tell me? And he said, "Because you have taken so much flack over this ...

A - Yeah!

J - ... so much ridicule. I just wanted to tell you that I saw it." That was his motive.

A - So you think he was coming to you ... privately ... at that point ...

J - Yeah!

A - Just saying, "Look! What you believe ... its true ... I can verify it! It's true."

J - Right!

A - So, it was just because you're friends. He saw your struggle.

J - Right!

A - And from that point?

J - Well! From that point - uh - you know - he kept - he was ... Well he worked from December 1988 to March 21, 1989, which will always be a date that we'll always remember and that ... the Tuesday before ... the 21st was a Wednesday. The day before ... I was over to his house and he said, "Do you want to go and see a disk fly tomorrow?"

 

I said, "Well, how?" and he said, "I know a place we can watch it and they always test on Wednesdays at sunset because that is the time this road is least traveled." So I said, "Okay! Let's go." So Gene Haupt and me and Bob got in my motor home and I think Bob's wife was with us and we drove up there - just south of the black mail box, which we didn't know about then.

A - The now infamous black mail box...

J - Right! I set up the telescope and here comes this thing - from behind the mountains where Groom Lake was and it flitted around and I'm trying to focus this 8" Celestron telescope which was very difficult.

A - Bad idea!

J - But finally I go tit and I saw a disk that was oriented about 45 degrees to the horizon and it was glowing - it was yellowish orange and it was glowing - and it was settling back down behind the mountains and I said, "Quick Gene - take a look, (laughs) and as I stepped back from the telescope, I hooked the tripod leg and go tit off ... off the focus and of course, there's a big laugh about that - and at one time I had those tapes - all those tapes, but I'm moving out of my house now and I stored everything in the garage as far as tapes and UFO books, all the documents and everything and somebody came and stole half of it, including my UFO books and everything and I don't know who it was and I don't' expect it ... you know ... I think it was just an accident that somebody took that stuff and that tape is gone.

A - Well... a telescope of that power would actually give you pretty good resolution - if you really managed to get it and old the focus ..(unintelligible)

J - Well, I saw it - it was perfect. No doubt about it.

A - How much could you see beyond a glowing disk, John?

J - That was it!

A - That was it! No further details of the craft itself? Could you even estimate from distance - the size?

J - No! So, we stayed around for another couple hours and nothing happened, so we went home and so the next Wednesday night, I was on a trip - an airline trip and I couldn't go, but I called Bob and I said, "What's going on?" and he said, "We're going fishing tonight!", which I new they were going up to Groom Lake, and uh - which I knew - that night, I think him, Annie, Wyatt, Keeley, and George Knapp went and that was the night that George got the film that he got.

 

The third night which was the following Wednesday- was March 6th. And that's when we went up and we had all the Geiger counters and the cameras and everything and that's the night we got caught and we were going down the road that accessed to the back gate of Groom Lake, and I kept saying ... "C'mon! Lets stop here ..."

A - How close... how close were you allowed to get?

J - About 10 miles.

A - 10 miles - so you were how far inside that 10 mile point?

J - uh - I think we were about 10 miles and we hadn't even come to the security gate - that's way up in the ridge area.

A - I guess - what I'm getting at - is ... were you in an area where you could legally be?

J - Oh yeah - absolutely!

A - All right!

J - But we were going further - and I kept saying, "Okay! Lets stop!" and then we saw some headlights in front of us and I said, "Okay! Let's turn around. There's no use in trying to push this issue." I said, "We're not going to be able to get out now," and as we turned around, I forget who was driving - I think it was Bob's wife's sister, and I said, "Don't get stuck in the dirt," and se we turned around and we head as fast as we can down this road and there were these jeeps or vehicles following us and when I told this story - I said there were 4 and Bob says, "No! There were only two."

 

I forget how any there were... but anyway, we got to a point almost to the road and we decided they were too close behind us - so we ... Bob says, "Let's stop. I can't afford to get caught. I'm going to go out into the desert... you guys can do what you have to do" ... and so we got out.. Bob went into the desert ... I set up the telescope and these guys pull up - form a circle - they had guns ... They said, "What are you guys doing?" and I said, "We're just looking at the stars." and they said, "Well! How come you were running away from us?" I said, "We thought you might be dopers." and he said, "Well! We're not", and he said, "We need to see some I.D."

 

So everybody had to give their Social Security and their driver's license number and we were there about 1/2 an hour. They checked everything and they gave us the briefing, and they said, "We can't kick you off here - this is BLM land, but we can make it awfully difficult for you if you stay." And we said, "Okay! We'll go!" and so they leave ... remember this is at night ... it's extremely dark - way out in the middle of the desert - and we had a trunk open which cast a light and I'm loading stuff and we wait about 15 minutes and Bob comes out of the desert and we sit there laughing and joking about seeing flying saucers and so on and so on ... unbeknownst to us - the security team stopped just about 100 yards and they were filming us and they had a parabolic reflector and they were recording what we were saying.

 

So, we pack up everything and we go and get on the road just where it meets 278 - and as we get on the road - I think its Knights or Lincoln County Sheriff stops us and they pull up and got the lights going and got the bull horn. He says, "All right! Everybody out! Put your hands on the car," And so we got out and put our hands on the car and he comes over and uh - we were there about an hour and checks I.D. and he was talking to somebody and pretty soon he comes up and says, "Look! I have only two questions."

 

He says, "One - where's the gun?" because we had mentioned that Bob went out into the desert with a gun - and he says, "I want to know why there are 5 people here and there were only 4 when security stopped you." And so nobody said anything and I have to admit that I made one of the monumental mistakes of my life - and Bob Lazar will never - ever forgive me for this ... but its my nature ... when he asked for the driver's license, I said, "Mine's in the trunk" and so we had to open the trunk with all the Geiger counters and film in there and after about an hour hemming and hawing and not giving him an answer - to anything - he said ... and I remember this officer's name .... its a French name ... and he still works there for Lincoln County and I see him from time to time.

 

He says, "Look! I don't know why I've been told to do this, but I've been told to let you guys go, so pack your stuff and get out of here." So we packed up our stuff and left ... and the next morning, Bob got a call from his boss ...

A - If I can stop you, John do you think you were let go - was because of the Lazar name?

J - Right!

A - Yeah! Okay!

J - They didn't want any more ... publicity ... so the next morning Bob gets a call from his boss - and he said, "Bob! Don't go to work - I'm going to pick you up" and he picked him up and drove him up to Indian Springs which is the center for security for the test site, and they pulled him out of the car with a gun in his ear and they said, "Bob - when we gave you this security clearance - it didn't mean that you were supposed to tell 'all' your friends about the flying saucers - do you want to work here or not?".

 

And he was non-committal. He came home and told us about what happened. I said, "Bob - are you going back to work", and he said, "Probably not!" and I said, "Why?" and he said, "the main reason is ... the last time I went up ..." he said, "When I got on that boat, I remember getting into that 737 and getting off and I can't remember what I did up there ... and I can't work under conditions like that."

Newsbreak:

A - Okay John! We left off where essentially Bob said, "Nah! I don't think I'll go back to work there ...

J - Yeah! The last thing he said was he could remember getting on the 737 and he could remember getting off, but he couldn't remember what he did there. ... I had done - so in the next day or so - on Saturday - No .. on Sunday morning, I had done some interviews with George Knapp - I can't remember what the show was called, but we discussed UFOs and everything and that night he called me and he said, "John! You won't believe it, but the phones are ringing off the hook here ... People want more.

 

What can we do for an encore? I said, "Well, maybe I can get Bob to come on and so that I talked to Bob and that ... and then on Monday night he did the news show where he showed them - in 'shadow' telling that when he worked up there ... working on extraterrestrial craft -

A - Oh! That was a big broadcast.

J - and then a few days later, George Knapp, Bob Stova - who headed Channel 8 came up and George Knapp said "I have Bob here and want to talk to Lazar and want to see if he's telling the truth and I wanna' go ahead with a special." He said, "I need to get Bob Stova's permission. " So we sat here for an hour or tow and they grilled Bob this way and that and then finally Bob Stova said, "Okay! Go ahead and do it," and then George then did a 6-part documentary on Lazar.

A - Yeah! Very famous documentary - uh ... Channel 8 stayed .. really stayed very heavily on that and that was it? ...

J - That was pretty much it. Bob gave the Lazar tape which said what he learned up there and uh - We kept in touch for many years and Bob did 'Desert Blast' every year until he ran 'Desert Blast 13' ... was the last one that we ran ... that was the largest outlaw fireworks show west of the Mississippi and uh - we didn't do it again for several reasons - one - because we did 13 shows with tremendously high explosive displays and there wasn't one injury. Bob said, We've gotten away with this long enough - for 13 years - lets bring this to a close ...

A - I've got a computer here and people can send questions as we go along and somebody is asking, "Well! That proves that Bob knew the schedule roughly of what was happening up there, but that doesn't necessarily prove the rest of his story." How confident are you that everything that you were told by Bob was right on the money?

J - You know - I'm confident that everything he told me was true and I've heard that argument also several times ... that he knew the schedule - but also and that maybe he was just a cook up there - so if he was a cook ... that means that they told the cooks when they were going to fly the flying saucers.

A - laughs - Yeah! That's a very good point - a very good point. But I'm going to ...

J - There is no way I can prove all that happened, but I can just say ... "I believe it!"

A - Of course! And you can say what you believe you saw with your own eyes.

J - Yeah!

A - Do you have ... How much of an idea do you have with regard to the capability of the craft you saw fly - ... 'fly' is the wrong word I guess ...

J - Well! Bob said it had tremendous capabilities - it could certainly travel outside this solar system and go to other solar systems. The fuel - he worked on the propulsion system. When you go to work there - everything is so compartmentalized - other than of the original briefing that he got where he learned - he got to where he knew a little of what was going on - they don't allow you to work on all aspects of it - everything - he had to pick on e field and his field that he picked was to try to duplicate the propulsion with present-day technology - and of course its impossible ... they are hundreds of thousands of years ahead of us and uh .. although we can understand how it works, there is no way we can contain an anti-matter reactor .

A - John! Uh... Bob got his hand on element 116. uh - crucial to the operation of the crafts - of element 116.

J - That is the fuel.

A - The fuel ... did he ... you remember ... you don't have to answer these if you don't want to, but did he bring element 116 to our home?

J - No! It was at his house.

A - It was at his house ... you saw it yourself ...

J - Yes!

A - Huh! ummm - what became of the ... element 116 that he possessed?

J - No comment!

A - No comment! Okay! Um... Let me ask you something easy ... maybe its not easy ... umm... you are a pilot ... you've been a pilot all your adult life I guess... correct?

J - Yeah!

A - Something a lot of us wonder.. is .. how many pilots see these craft? - uh - a lot of people ... I've noticed something John, we get a lot more UFO sightings - when Mars is getting close and people are paying attention to the sky ... most people go around - pay attention to what is in front of them - or the road or whatever - they have to - they don't spend a lot of time looking at the sky ... ah - but pilots do - they spend a lot of time looking at the sky and many of us wonder - how many pilots actually see these things?

J - That's really a misconception - because when you are a pilot and flying an airplane - particularly in this day and age .. you are concentrating on what is going on inside the cockpit - during the nighttime - even if you have the lights turned down - there is no way you can see out the windows - I mean - you can press our eyeball against the window and see stars but its not like you can sit in your normal piloting position and see outside ... you can't.

 

And then during the daytime - uh - you know ... your attention isn't outside - I mean - you look out occasionally from time to time - so most of your concentration is inside - you are talking to the air-traffic control - you're monitoring the instruments and paying attention to flying.

A - so then ..

J - But - but - so in answer to your question ... how many many people see? ... not many. I've heard some stories of guys who see stuff outside and of course, I may have been a little different. I spend a lot more time looking outside - um - I remember one of the last flights I made with a cargo airline and where its very late at night and I'm looking out ...

 

I see this thing go streaking across the sky and go straight up and I thought ' oh gosh, I wish the crew had seen that so then I didn't say anything - and then it happened again and then I thought - well Gosh - maybe it'll happen again, so I said, "Hey you guys - look at this ... and it happened three more times. I was - I don't know what it was .. it came streaking about 1/2 way across the horizon, directly over the airplane and then shot straight up ...

A - Uh - (at a loss for words) uh - okay! There is a million things I want to ask you about, for example: uh - Richard C. Hoagland, in the early years had some shocking stuff, he said about things that are on our moon - just incredible things - tall spires, structures and buildings and things - just incredible stuff - and people laughed - they ought not be laughing at that, huh?

J. No! Richard C. Hoagland inspired me to look into that and I ordered some prints from NASA and of course - when you order pictures of the moon from NASA, and they don't come from NASA - there are three separate places where they come from and to go back to the middle 60's when NASA really realized what was going on, they had the lunar orbitor series - there were five camera ships they sent to the moon with fabulous detailed photographs of the moon - and when they came back, they were chock full of these buildings and arches, domes, and buildings and of ... you know ... there were people who spent their entire careers airbrushing this stuff out and then taking a picture of 'that' picture and that's what you would get for public information and that's the picture that got sent out to the pubic.

 

Once in awhile you could order a picture and they forgot to airbrush - or they didn't know it, and one thing they could never have imagined in the 60's - that in the 90's computer technology would make it possible that we could scan a photograph like that and enlarge it and find the airbrush marks and find stuff that they didn't see - looking at the print. You can go right down and see little tracks and all kinds of stuff.

A - So - you think they're just erasing this stuff, they have been erasing stuff like crazy - to protect us from the truth?

J - Well yeah! They are having a really hard time keeping this stuff from the public. I mean, every time you send something to Mars, something happens, it doesn't work, they have an accident. etc. We sent Clementine to the moon, it took all these fabulous pictures and it spun out of control and the guys at NASA think - you know - can we do this? Do you think the public is going to fall for this every single time? And some guy would say, "Well! They have so far and ...

A - Well then - you've been following Richard's career to some degree?

J - Absolutely! What a guy!

A - All right! Like a year ago, John, he suddenly came up with these photographs of Mars and you know I've done quite a bit of flying - I'm surely not a pilot - but you know - when you look at these photographs - the more recent ones of Mars - even I sat here and went, "Oh my God!" - it's like I'm looking down - on a damn city - like a city - it looks like a city from the air and buildings everywhere - square shapes that don't make any sense on Marts from pictures that were imaged just below the surface. I don't know if you've seen these or not - have you?

J - Which ones are we talking about?

A - Umm - they're fairly ... within the year ... recent pictures - within a year - imaged kind of - some of the ...just below the ground - you know

J - Yeah! Yeah! sure ...

A - My God! they ...

J - You know - there are some taken above the ground that are equally fascinating.

A - They are ...

J - We are running into the same thing with Richard that we run in with UFO people as ... Everyone believes their own research, but when they hear another story ... "Oh that guy is full of B.S.!!" and uh - so you kind of have to do your own - as you research this. Now the last thing I came across ... have you seen the city of Tithonia? Cydonia

A - Yes!

J - Okay! now that stuff is fascinating. I called up that guy at Redstar and said, "Send me that stuff - and what is so fascinating about it - is I don't know if you can do this today, but you used to be able to go to Malin Space Systems and download it - the film - yourself and look at it yourself - you didn't have to go buy a CD.

A - Yeah! - Its incredible stuff. I mean - to me - from the air - it looks very city-like. John that would imply a gigantic civilization at least at one time - was on Mars - without question!

J - Yeah! When Bob was working at the test site, one of the things he saw was close-up views of - they were taken at very close range - he said that the pyramid on Cydonia - you could see doors and windows and ... you know - there was no doubt - that was a place where somebody lived - and so - he and I had an occasion to drive down to LA - to pick up his jet car and when we were down there - we drove over to JPL and we went to see the guy - who was head of - um - was it Voyager that went ... I've lost my memory - what was the name of the ... was it Voyager II? that went to Mars?

A - Well! It was Voyager!

EDITORS NOTE: Viking 1976 - Viking Mars Orbiter Images Mars Space Missions Mars Lander Photos Mars Missions

J - Okay! So we went to see the guy who was head of Voyager imaging and we said - "Bob has been up to Area 51 and Bob saw these close up photos and um - but the photos which are released to the public - we don't see this particular photo " We said, "This photo we saw was taken at a very low altitude, uh - and at a specific angle," and we said, "Did ... was Voyager ever tasked - sent at a lower angle to take pictures and the guy said, "As a matter of fact, we did task it to go lower, but we didn't take any pictures."

A - (Art chuckles)

J - Now here's the beauty of this thing and this is how a coverup works - he knew that it went lower, but even he didn't have a high enough clearance - even though he was head of imaging - that that picture was taken.

A - Uh - John - why do you think that all of this is being withheld from us? The whole thing - why? Why are we being protected from this information? I mean ... On the one hand, people call us and say ...'I can take it ... " the fact that Brookings said that people would be disturbed and all that baloney ... I want to know." So the question is , who are we not being allowed to know? Why? Why keep it all secret?

J - The answer is - and that is in the form ... I'd like to do something with you , but we'll need a good 10 or 15 minutes because what I'm going to do is say ... "Art Bell - the government has chosen you because of your vast experience with the public and what you think they can handle and we decided - that we are either going to release all this information or not - but we are going to tell you everything we know and you decided - Yay or Nay!"

A - Yeah!

J - and that this would be 'YOU' Art Bell - it will you YOU!

A - Yeah! I would think that I was being set up - John!

J - Really!!!

A - Yeah! Big time set up -

J - When we have 10 minutes of clear time - I have written the briefing you are going to get from the government and then after that briefing - that comes with slides and videos and of course you can't see them, but I'll talk you through them and then after you see them - I'll say - Art - Yay or Nay!!

A - while laughing - Art says - So you are going to give me a briefing, huh?

J- Yes!

A - Okay! We'll do that in a few minutes. - uh Apollo 17 - Apollo 17 - or will that - can you give us a brief - I mean - was there some mission with regard - was there something about Apollo 17 that wasn't fully public?

J - Yes! Apollo 17 landed in the Taurus Litrow area, (see above at the beginning of this interview) which is extremely dangerous - um - there is mountain peaks that go 8 to 10 thousand feet - a round area - but what they were tasked to do on the second day was to go to Nansen and Nansen is a large, obviously constructed opening inside the south massif and they wanted to take a look at it - so essentially its been covered up, but there is a website where you can read the whole thing, see the pictures of Nansen - you get exact - what the astronauts said, which its very, very interesting what they said - uh - what I'll do at the end of this broadcast - I'll going to e-mail you about 10 or 15 websites - that we are talking about - that you can pass them on if you want - and maybe you can look at Apollo 17 and Project Redstar and all the rest of them.

A - All of this - uh - an Apollo mission - our space program in general - How much of this would have to be hidden? Now - of course its worth mentioning - that we have not gone back to the moon ... not with men as one would have expected by now ... or Mars or anything else ... its like ... its kind of like ... I don't know - were' being kept home.

J - Right! We were told to stay away - we were given that edict by the aliens - they said, "You will NOT come back here - and ... I'm not sure exactly which particular Apollo series it was and we said, "Look! We've got all these Saturn 5's - it will be hard to keep that from the public," and they said "Okay! - one or two more and 'that's it!" Apollo 17 was the lsat one and the NASA excuse was , "We don't have any more funding and we can't do it and they have - still had 3 remaining Saturn 5's fueled and ready to go and they were 18, 19, and 20.

A - The threat - that stopped us - what was the 'or else' part?

J - It was just '"or else" and you know - I don't know exactly what was said, and I didn't talk to anybody who heard the threat - it was just enough threat - that "Don't come back here - you're not welcome."

A - Yeah!

Newsbreak.

A - laughing - I've been set up before , but it doesn't hurt to listen - laughing - you know - its kind of interesting - over the years of doing this program, - so many years now - I've often wondered why I've been allowed to do it at all (laughs) so let's say the government chose me - they were going to use me as an outlet to release this information - lets just say they did that and they took me to a briefing ...

John Lear's Disclosure Briefing
As presented on the 11/2/03 show:

Art Bell: Let's say the government chose me. They were going to use me as an outlet to release this information. Let's just say they did that and they took me to a briefing. Then what John?

John Lear: They whisk you to Washington, DC, you get limo-ed to this building, beautiful building, you go up into this room. They say, 'Art, you're the guy and if you give us the go ahead, we are gonna release everything we know to the public. If you decide to go ahead, all major networks will be provided with information on all aspects of the cover up and no type of information will be withheld. Because of the deal for immunity for all participants of the cover up provides that nothing, no artifacts, no piece of information be withheld.'

So here's what happened, Art. We'll use some videos and stills. Our first UFO recoveries were in the late '30s. We made a couple in the beginning of the '40s and then came Roswell, which the public found out about. We got 2 live aliens from Roswell. One died shortly there after and one lived till 1956. And we found out so far there are 18 different alien species that we know about monitoring Earth. Some are good and some are hostile, most are indifferent.

 

We found out that we are the experimental product, if you will, of an alien race who we never met and we don't know who they are. All we know is that the Greys are cybernetic organisms, glorified robots if you will, who work here at the behest of their employers monitoring us through abductions. We were never able to find out what the experiment is all about except that we have been externally corrected about 65 times. And they, the aliens, refer to us as "Containers." There's been speculation that the souls our bodies contain is the reason for the experiments. But nothing's been proven or determined.

Since 1938 we've lost over 200 aircraft due to UFO hostilities and thousands of soldiers in all kinds of different actions with aliens. Since that time several hundred thousand civilians have disappeared with no trace. Several thousand of those were eliminated by us because of their chance encounters with the aliens which we could ill afford to have publicized.

A slightly more frightening phenomena known as "human mutilations" have occurred on a regular basis and are similar to "cattle mutilations". In that the human or humans are taken from the street, so to speak, and returned to the same area about 45 minutes to an hour later with their rectums cored out, their genitals removed, eyes removed from their sockets, and completely drained of blood. In all cases it appeared that the mutilation procedures occurred while the persons were still alive and conscious.

 

One of our scientists speculates that apparently the human specimens had to be alive for the samples to be worth anything. Abductions occur on a daily basis throughout the United States to at least 10% of the population.

When we were first made aware this we protested to the little grey being we had held in captivity at the YY-2 facility in Los Alamos, but a deal was struck that in exchange for advanced technology from the aliens we would allow them to abduct a very small number of persons and we would periodically be given a list of those persons abducted. We got something less than the technology we bargained for and found the abductions exceeded by a million fold than what we had naively agreed to.

In 1954, President Eisenhower met with a representative of another alien species at Muroc Test Center, which is now called Edwards Airforce Base. This alien suggested that they could help us get rid of the Greys but Eisenhower turned down their offer because they offered no technology.

At this point it became apparent to all involved that there was no such thing as a God, at least how the public perceives God. Certainly some form of computer recorder stores information and an occasional miracle is displayed by the aliens to influence a religious event. This so unnerved Eisenhower that he had "In God We Trust" put on paper money and coins and put in the Pledge of Allegiance to reaffirm the public belief in God.

 

Shortly after this it was determined in meetings between the US and the Russians that the situation was serious enough that a cold war should be manufactured as a ruse to divert attention of the public away from UFOs towards some other scary threat like the H-bomb. It was also decided to keep the ruse secret from any elected or appointed officials within both the US and Russian governments as it took so long to vet these officials and the ruse was easier to manage if the top people didn't know about it.

In the late 1950's NASA was formed to compartmentalize, containerize, and sanitize information from all space platforms and vehicles. We sold NASA to the public claiming that all information would belong to them but they got very little and even that was highly sanitized.

Our first efforts were to keep the public from learning about Venus. A very similar planet to Earth and it's population is very similar to us just technologically advanced. We have learned a lot from them starting with the Russian Venera 1 and US Mariner 2, we made Venus look like a lead melting, volcanic surface, spewing sulfuric acid into a pressurized atmosphere 90 times that of Earth.

 

And as often the case we over did it and we wondered why nobody asked how a parachute survived a descent into 800-degree air. We set up operations in Pine Gap, Australia to preclude any prying eyes figuring out what we were up to. We regularly eliminated through extreme prejudice anybody who was part of the operation and made the least little tiny threat about disclosure or dissatisfaction with the operation.

 

Any space mission that included Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Mariner, Voyager, Clementine, and all the rest. All data initially came transmitted to Pine Gap then it was relayed to JPL or wherever after sanitizing. We had a little trouble with amateur radio operators but we figured out how they could intercept these signals but we managed to deal with that.

When the Russian threat began to fade we introduced Vietnam which kept the public occupied for over ten years. The cover up and personnel to run the operation began to get bigger and bigger and required more and more money. We were forced to inflate the defense budget, which soon not enough. Then we got into the drug business which was still not enough.

 

We were the ones that looted the savings and loan industry and Wall Street to boot. It is so out of control now most people want immunity and want out. But there is so much secrecy and so many double and triple blinds in place that it's unlikely that this thing can ever be dismantled. And even if you give us the go ahead to spill the beans to the public it's unlikely they will get anything more than "yes, we recovered a flying saucer and yes, there was an occupant" but that's all we're gonna tell ya.

So go ahead and roll the tape for Mr. Bell. What you see here are what human mutilations look like. That one was a male about 27 years old. That one is film of dead aliens being pulled from the wreckage of a craft that crashed in Olancha, California in the '50s. That craft you see over there was over 250ft. in diameter and had to be buried on the spot. That site is in Utah near Dugway Proving Grounds.

 

The object you're looking at now is the as the Kecksburg Acorn which was brought to Wright Patterson in the middle '60s. There's Frank Drake trying to force information out of a being tied down to a stretcher. He was supposedly from Tau Ceti.

These pictures you're looking at now are structures on the Moon. That's the tower in Sinus Medii (fig.4) and it's over seven miles tall. And that thing over there is what we call the Colossus of Oguram(sp) in Mare Crisium.

 

We don't know what it does but the machine itself is bigger than Brooklyn, New York. Now those are videos of the domes covering the craters. As you can see, some are in a very advanced state of decay. (Interview with Art Bell, Hoagland/Ken Johnosn)

fig. 4

http://www.apolloexplorer.co.uk/photo/html/apoll_ov/10074655.htm
Photograph of surface of moon showing Sinus Medii near center of the moon
Ellipse II-P-8, located in Sinus Medii near the center of the moon. The center coordinates for the ellipse are 0 degrees 25 minutes north longitude and 1 degree 20 minutes west latitude. It was the eighth primary site photographed by Lunar Orbiter II. Surveyor VI landed approximately five kilometers to the northwest from the center of the ellipse.
Catalog Date: 05 January 1966
Film Type: 4x5 BW
NASA image: S67-08133
 

These are 5 second slides of the 18 different alien species we are looking at. That one there is the most gruesome looking. The guards at one facility are carefully indoctrinated over several months being shown pictures similar to but not exactly like the alien. Only when he'd been acclimatized, so to speak, of the horrible looking beings are they allowed to stand in security positions. Before these acclimatization were done, we had two guards die of a heart attack as the aliens came down the hallway unexpectedly.

And this last clip is of the Kennedy assassination. You've heard of the second gunman theory? Well, this is the second camera that recorded exactly what happened and we had 4 gunmen. And the bottom line was that Kennedy had to go. He insisted on releasing what little alien information we had told him about and he was trying to withdraw troops from Vietnam which we were using as a diversion for the public. After Kennedy we never told any President anything. Nixon knew because he was briefed as VP in 1952. That's how we knew where to take Jackie Gleason to Homestead Air Force Base to see the alien bodies we had in storage there.

And that's about it. What say you Art Bell? Do we brief the public? Yay or nay?"

A - I guess ... my first response would be - having heard even one quarter of that information - if I really heard it from a legitimate government source ... that I was about to be killed ... I would assume I would be in mortal danger ... I mean - its just - uh - any portion of that information would get a person killed if they knew it - much less - I - uh - its just ludicrous John, I would never be put in such a situation. I would never be at such a briefing, because such a briefing is never, never and will never be made - EVER!

J - Well, art! Here's the deal - ... is people want to know - the say, "I can take it - tell me." I mean - the public can take it - Well - do you want to release it or not?

A - Now wait a minute - are you saying ... Well - well -they can't - I agree ...

J - You have been given this briefing... the government has decided ... "Look , We're tired of covering this thing up..."

A - This assumes that I really believe that they would release it as opposed to killing me! Right?

J - They aren't going to kill you if they give you this briefing - they would just say - "Here it is."

A - No! Once I said, "No!" "Yes or no" - Well I suppose, "No" Once I said it, then I'd have to be killed, wouldn't I?

J - No! No!

A - Well - other people have been killed because that was part of your briefing. +++

J - Yeah! But - well that was just up to 1972 - up until 1972, there was 572 people eliminated from the program because they disagreed with the way it was going, but after 1972, they don't kill them anymore. What they do - I don't know! I have my suspicions - of what they do!

A - Why do you imagine ...

J - Don't bring that into the argument ...

A - Why do you imagine they let people like you on radio shows like this and saying these things?

J - The government ... the coverup is so firmly in place now that its not a threat to them.

A - It doesn't matter!

J - uh uh! I mean ... how many people are we talking ? It doesn't matter. People think its interesting and then they go on with their business.

A - All right!

J - My point is, if you knew the whole story, you wouldn't be pushing for disclosure.

A - No! I wouldn't - of course I wound not! I believe that Brookings was accurate - In fact I believe even more than that . I spent all these years - getting e-mails and talking to people in the Bible belt - John! I've talked to a lot of them. I know how the fundamentalists feel... and it would turn us UP SIDE DOWN!

J - I agree with you. Last night I talked to the guy who is heading up the Disclosure Project in Washington, D.C. I read him the exact same thing I read to you ... and he said, "Yeah! Go for it! Let's do it! We have a right to know" ... and I'm wondering "How can you possibly think like that?"

A - Um! How can he? I've asked the same questions.. really I have, and you get a wonderful speech in return - that also makes sense - you know. You get the patriotic angle - you get the ... you know ... we're a part of all that's happening - about these profound issues - they 'so' profound ... we really have a right to know and the argument 'sounds good' - it really sounds good. I also know what would happen if this information got out.

J - You're 100% right. And that's how I believe. And they bring up the argument, "Well! I'm tired of the government lying to us - and that's what a government does - they lie to us. They lie to us continually - but in this particular issue - they are correct!

Here are the web links that John Lear provided in support of his data:

• vgl.org

• rumormillnews.com

• keithlaney.com

• lunaranomalies.com

• astrosurf.com

John Lear - UFOs and Aliens
edited by Branton

(INPUT 001)
During the late 1980's and early 1990's, John Lear, a Lockheed L-1011 Captain and son of the famous inventor of the Lear Jet, started coming forward with some startling revelations concerning the subject of aerial phenomena and Unidentified Flying Objects. During his lecture at the 1989 MUFON conference in Las Vegas, titled 'UFO COVERUP, HISTORY AND CURRENT SITUATION' during which he spoke to an audience of over 400 of the nations leading UFOlogists, Lear made some startling comments.

One man who we will refer to extensively elsewhere claims to be a deep level intelligence operative within the U.S. Government who has access to some very sensitive and top secret information concerning the government's involvement with 'alien' studies.

This individual, who refers to himself only as 'Commander X', made the following comments concerning John Lear and his possible intentions and motives for his outspokenness.

"...One can't help but be impressed with the name John Lear. After all, his father, William was the famous aviation pioneer who built the Lear Aircraft Company, which today holds down many defense contracts and employs thousands.

"Lear - the son - is also highly regarded in aviation circles, having flown a variety of over 150 test aircraft, and having won every award granted by the Federal Aviation Administration.

"Until a few years ago (early 1980's) John Lear had little or no interest in UFO's--he hadn't thought terribly much about the subject, which seemed 'way out' to him. Then he chanced to talk to a friend who had been stationed in England when a UFO touched down at a military complex there, and was seen by U.S. servicemen on duty--small creatures and all. Intrigued, Lear began asking around and found some of his former associates in the CIA--for whom he had flown a number of missions--willing to confirm that government leaders knew a great deal more about UFO's...then the public was being let on.

"Lear discovered to his utter amazement that the U.S. military actually possessed craft (i.e. aerial craft of unknown origin - Branton), some of the vehicles were even in partially working order. Apparently, the Americans had initially gotten their hands on these... disk-shaped devices as far back as the late 1940's, upon recovery of a 'saucer' that the Nazi's had somehow captured during World War II. Apparently, some of the lethal 'death weapons' we subsequently developed were based on facets of this (recovered) technology.

"Furthermore, Lear believes that any number of flying discs 'fell' into our hands when they crashed in the southwest in the late 1940's and early 50's.

"Scattered around the various crash sites were the bodies of small humanoid beings, the EBE's. At least one alien was found still alive and he, along with his badly burned bodies, were flown to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, home of the infamous 'Hanger 18'; this final destination, the so-called 'Blue Room', (is the one) which Senator Barry Goldwater has not even been permitted to penetrate.

"Lear's scenario also includes the suspicion that the government has made secret deals with the 'aliens', actually exchanging humans for advanced technological data. Supposedly, the government was to be provided with a list of those being abducted so they could maintain a vigil over them after their experience and make sure that they were not being harmed in any way. Unfortunately, the 'aliens' took advantage of the situation, taking away tens of thousands for God knows what purpose, and implanting small transmitters inside their brains (i.e. of those who were fortunate enough to be abducted and RETURNED - Branton) which can be activated for some sinister 'mission' at some prearranged future moment...

"According to friend and foe alike, John Lear wears a variety of masks. Sometimes what he has to say lacks credibility, but just when you think you've caught him with his jump suit down, evidence pops up that what he has to say may not be so totally off the wall. For example, others with military connections have recently come forward to verify part of his amazing saga..."
 

(INPUT 002)
In late 1992, Art Bell of the CBC Radio Network (Phone #'s: 702-385-7213; 385-721; 383-8255) in it's "Talk Of The West - Coast To Coast AM", KDWN - Las Vegas, interviewed John Lear and Rod Madley.

The following are highlights of the subjects discussed over the 6-hour interview period which ran well into the morning hours:

1. Lear, the 49 year old Jet Pilot holds 18 world speed records, including a speed record for round-the-world flight in the Lear Jet in 1966. He has worked for 28 different Aircraft Corporations.
    

2. He was initially 'turned on' to UFO research after Gen. Gordon Williams confirmed to him the landing of a 'grey' craft at Bentwaters AFB, England.
    

3. According to Robert Lazar, while working at Los Alamos, N.M., he learned that files in a restricted 'library' there revealed that PROJECT GRUDGE (Blue Book) was still in existence as of 1988, although it had supposedly closed down in 1949. Lazar was hired at S-4 with the help of long time friend Dr. Edward Teller, who referred him to EG&G. Bob's superiors stated that any revelations he made about UFO's could only be worded as 'his opinion', whereas DIRECT revelation would be a technical breach of his security clearance.
    

4. At one point John Lear and a group of investigators went out to view and video-tape the 'disks' which Bob Lazar had said could be seen test flying at a certain time and place. While on PUBLIC BLM LAND the group was chased by 10 Wackenhut 4x4 'Broncos' and apprehended. They demanded to see their identifications at (machine) gun point. They were later hassled for about an hour by the Lincoln Co. Sheriff's Dept.
    

5. Indian Springs, NV., is the headquarters for all security at the test site.
    

6. When his superiors learned that Lazar told Lear and others of the 'test flights', they took him in and with a gun to his head demanded to know why he did it.
    

7. Ron Madley, a 'Cadcam' (computer design) administrator for a Houston, TX., engineering company, refers to 'events 1-6' of NASA shuttle films taken aboard the space shuttle DISCOVERY and others, some of which were shown on national television in the Fall of 1992.
    

8. According to Madley, his father Carl knew several astronauts who stated that at EVERY SINGLE SPACE SHOT at Cape Canaveral (Kennedy) at least one UFO was seen by either ground personnel or the astronauts, at or just after the launch. This was confirmed by a Dr. Gary Henderson. Carl Madley was one of the first Lear Jet pilots, and experienced a UFO sighting which was witnessed by others wherein he intercepted a flying disk, which played 'cat and mouse' with him for several minutes. Afterward he was interviewed by (govt. agent) J. Allen Hynek, who confirmed the UFO sightings by the U.S. astronauts.
    

9. Event 2-3 were the incidents that were broadcast publicly, and were only a small part of the entire file. The events were recorded by cameras mounted outside of shuttle, debunking the theory that the 'flashes' were a reflection from inside the cabin. The 'events' were named in the order they were found when the film was studied, not necessarily in chronological order. Event #1 was seen late one night by a computer engineer at the Goddard Space Flight Center.

    

   While looking at a live picture in the 'big screen' he saw, according to Madley,

   1. "several little flickering lights and a larger object pulsating towards the rear of the shuttle. The camera then panned down into the cargo bay and after several minutes of no motion [it] zoomed into an area of the UR satellite.

       

      The ground controller commented to the astronauts about Camera-D getting 'hot', and that they could either return control of the camera over to ground control or they could switch cameras. After a discussion ensued they finally got control of the cameras...they panned the cameras back and the objects were gone."
       

10. "Events 2-4 were filmed by a man in Maryland off of a down-link from NASA (as part of a College project). Event 2 is essentially a night scene over the earth that occurred on Sept. 16th (1992)... what you see as the lights on the planet at night are going around on islands and continents... you see several small white lights that appear on the screen.

     

    The main event that people see in this is an object that appears at the edge of the horizon and appears to almost track or follow the horizon as it goes up. After several seconds of this the object abruptly makes a right-hand turn, approximately a 45 degree angle... a very sharp turn.

     

    And then leaves the atmosphere apparently and goes out into space... this is the event most people have seen... nationally... then you see what appears to be one or two streak of laser-like objects coming from the bottom of the screen, up and towards this object and one other that's on the right hand side. These are fast-moving... streaks... moving much, much faster than any of the other objects in the view."
     

11. "Event #3 is interesting, it's a shot of the 'day' side of the earth from high orbit... it shows a multitude... probably a couple of dozen objects that are flying in all different directions across the screen. Everybody that I've shown this to, and I've had the opportunity over the past 5 months or so to show this... people working both at Johnson Space Center in Houston, I've shown it to people at Sandia, people at a couple of Air Force bases... and basically their comments to me are universal, these people don't know one another, and they'll explain: 'My God that looks like STAR WARS!' And I said 'the Defense Program or the movie?' and they say 'the movie!'"
     

12. "The interesting thing in event 3 we've found... is one of the larger objects... coming from the lower left to the upper right hand portion of the screen... as it gets about a third of the way up from the bottom there's one of these fast moving streaks that comes in from the right-hand side of the screen and intersects the path that this object is on, in fact it intersects it at the exact moment that it is in line with it, and you see what appears to be another 'piece' of either the first object or the second object break off and start travelling off into the lower right. If the object was hit this doesn't make any sense because the object should now be tumbling in the other direction but it isn't.

     

    This has led some of the people I've shown it to suggest that perhaps the object... ejected something... perhaps some sort of a defense maneuver. But it does appear that something has been hit and we've caught that on film." (Note: If the 'beam' weapons were part of the SDI 'Star Wars' program, one might wonder HOW the 'officials' were able to tell whether they were Hostile-Grey or Benevolent-Human occupants? Although the 'human' occupants encountered are at times less then friendly, they are by average far less threatening than the 'reptilian-grey' species.

     

    Just what is the present 'official' attitude on the Greys? HOPEFULLY this was not a case of elements in the one- world (Illuminati) government who have been 'taken over' by the grays, attacking a relatively 'benevolent' human group AS THEY HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO DO IN THE PAST. Whoever the 'good guys' or 'bad guys' are, 'us' or 'them', it is certain that a 'STAR WARS' is actually taking place 'out there' - Branton)
     

13. "Event #6... I went down in April to the Johnson Space Center," Ron Madley alleges, "the only branch of NASA that is keeping and recording all the missions. The public and the press have a building that they would go to at NASA for information... Fortunately I know that the film and all the photographs are not really kept in that building... the films are archived and kept by a PRIVATE corporation that has contracted out to NASA on-site and they're kept in another building at NASA..

     

    Jim Oberg through his incompetence has been a real help here because it was HE who actually let me know which building it was that had all the material... I know the exact times and days of the sequences I needed... I was getting the runaround basically, so I thought well, the fastest way to do this... is cut out the middle men and go directly to the source... so at this building... where all the photo labs are, I essentially walked in and explained what the situation was... they proceeded to let me upstairs and into a secure room where this video was kept...

     

    I found the first 4 events with no problem at all, and they were pretty incredible, I was very impressed with the quality... event 5 was discovered and located by a man in Nebraska who was listening to his short-wave radio and heard one of the astronauts exclaim: 'WHAT'S THAT! WHAT IS THAT?'... In the segment of film... at the moment where this should have been there was a JUMP in the TIME CODE and a change in the picture... the total time was about 14 MINUTES that was gone... I've never seen that happen before... I had gone in fully believing NASA's explanation (i.e. that the objects were ice, debris or the firing of 'attitude adjusters')."
     

14. "Event 6... is a color shot over the earth in the daytime, and for 3 seconds we see an object go from left to right across the view... The object appears at first to rotate or flicker as it goes across... out of the 87 frames in which the object... should be there, there are 14 frames in which the object disappears completely... the object stops and starts at it travels through space, it is NOT a constant motion."
     

15. One man working at Sandia informed Madley that event No. 6 was an 'alien craft', based on the flight performance of UFOs which they had investigated. They showed him a film they possessed showing a similar object.
     

16. According to Lear, Bob Lazar stated that the alien craft could bend the 'fabric' of space and travel at speeds exceeding that of light. The theory stated that they could somehow 'lock on' to a distant point in space and through some gravimetric wave amplification 'bend' the space-time fabric and enter hyperspace, and essentially 'be' at the distant point which they had locked on to. The subspace travel would be instantaneous because of the zero-time factor, and the majority of the 'time' would consist of acceleration and deceleration of the craft.
     

17. Madley stated that he has a copy of a NASA document that refers to the date and times when the 'event-5' film was 'checked out' and studied by others. It stated that 4 U.S. Representatives, including a Dr. Pipps, studied the films on three occasions. On the first visit Dr. Pipps referred to it as the 'lightning' film.

     

    The second visit to the film library (also to check out the event-5 film) was, according to the document, in regards to a 'Congressional Inquiry', whereas the stated purpose of the third visit was written down as a 'UFO Congressional Inquiry'. Madley stated that a Helen Bentley, a U.S. representative from Maryland, was behind the inquiry. When Madley tried to contact her she was not at all cooperative, although she admitted her involvement when he pressed the issue and presented her with the evidence (letters signed by her, etc.).
     

18. Lear states that ONE of the reasons for the initial cover-up may have been due to the governments inability to provide an ENTIRE answer to the UFO question (the fear of opening up a 'Pandoras Box') and the economic, political and especially RELIGIOUS complications and questions that might arise as a result.
     

19. Some of the 'Element 115' in the government's possession is in Los Alamos and some is at the 'Test Site' according to Lear and Lazar.
     

20. Lear stated that some types of 'Greys' have 4 fingers with no thumb (some with and some without 'webbing'), some have 3 fingers, some six fingers. Some types of greys have no 'toes' but have 'sock-like' feet. 'Some' types have 'colorless' blood which does not carry oxygen and which does not contain 'cells' as we know them. This description came from a government surgeon known by Leonard Stringfield who performed 'autopsies' on alien cadavers.
     

21. Lear states that the 'greys' can manipulate a human soul (or astral form?), remove it from it's body and do all manner of 'experiments' on them (Note: Some abductees have in fact reported having had their spirit-astral forms 'jerked' from their physical bodies while inside alien craft by the greys, who were sometimes accompanied by shadow-like phantasmical or paraphysical beings - Branton).
     

22. The Dulce (pronounced Dul-see) base has been called "Section-4" by some of the individuals who have formerly worked there.
     

23. AIDS was intentionally engineered, and released through laced smallpox vaccines in Africa, and laced hepatitis vaccines in America, etc.
     

24. There were several firefights with alien craft and their (grey) occupants in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam war, many of them reliable incidents although hushed-up by the government, "...one that we have a lot of knowledge of is one that occurred in Cambodia, and what was frightening to our side [who were] fighting these [creatures] is in the disk... were parts of human beings, arms, legs, heads, that kind of stuff."
     

25. The host, Art Bell, mentioned an incident which was reported to him that allegedly involved a drilling project not far from the 'Test Site' and 'Area 51'... "and they got down 2000 feet plus, the story goes, and began to bring up human flesh, fresh flesh and bones..." (Note: this is not the only story of it's kind. One older account involved a drill bit that broke into 'empty space' somewhere in North America, exact area uncertain, and pulled up flesh and hair from what appeared to be a hairy animal or humanoid creature - Branton).
     

26. The 'Horrible Truth' became evident to the Government during the 'Dulce' incident, when our very top, TOP scientific staff were killed. Due to the former false views of the alien question which had been reinforced by the 'grays' themselves, the government had commissioned a guarded release of information concerning the seemingly non-threatening gray-aliens... that was BEFORE the so-called 'Dulce Wars' broke out.

     

    Because of the way information seeps down from the higher to the lower echelons they were unable to prevent Spielberg--and others who had been commissioned or inspired to make movies or documentaries about 'friendly' little aliens--from producing their warped version of the greys, the abductions, etc. Lear believes that the reason Linda M. Howe's project [involving MJ-12's release of information] came to a mysterious halt about the same time the 'Horrible Truth' or the 'Grand Deception' was discovered, was probably due of those revelations.
     

27. Lear referred to a video describing the whole Robert Lazar story and related information on the 'bases', etc., which is available from Tri-dad., 1324 S. Eastern., Las Vegas, Nevada 89104.
     

28. One of the technical 'marvels' that Bob Lazar allegedly saw at the test site was a generator the size of a small ice chest that put out a tremendous amount of energy (in the '100 megawatt' range).
     

29. There is one top-secret weapon the U.S. government has developed which is so devastating that there are 'certain alien groups' that are trying to suppress it.
     

30. One caller who allegedly held a 'Q' clearance confirmed--via a friend of his with an even higher 'Cosmo' clearance who worked at the Nevada Military Complex--that 'two' alien groups contacted the government.

     

    One was human-like and offered to help us with our spiritual-social development but refused to give the government technology - the government refused their offer; and the next was the 'Greys' which offered technology in exchange for the government keeping their existence secret from the public, etc.

     

    According to John Lear the second group turned out to be LIARS and did not deliver the technology [or installed it only in so-called 'joint' underground bases which THEY controlled. The main source of U.S. government technology apparently came from crashed disks (mostly 'grey'), some of which were blown out of the sky by the U.S. military].
     

31. Wickenberg, Arizona is an apparent site of an underground base, 'abduction' activity, etc. The government allegedly took control of a mine in the area some years ago.
     

32. Earlier in the century 1 in 40 citizens reportedly experienced 'abductions'. As of the early 1990's the figures are closer to 1 in 10, according to Lear.
     

33. There are 'tunnels' and base complexes that connect China Lake, California City, Norton AFB, Edwards AFB, Tonopah, Groom Lake, Nevada Test Site, Los Alamos, Dulce, Norad, Oklahoma and to the East. Lear spoke of a friend whose father was or is a hydraulic engineer on the tunnel digging machines which are 28 ft. in diameter.
     

34. Lear stated that he got within one week of interviewing a man who allegedly worked in the 'base' on Mars, before he 'disappeared'.
     

35. Reference to possible 'alien' influence behind the Trilateral Commission and the 'New World Order' as well as Adolph Hitler's Third Reich.
     

36. Reference to 'Casey & Associates' in Seattle, Wa., founded by an individual who was involved with several top 'government' programs, and his knowledge of the secret governments intended use of mass genocide as a means of population control.
     

37. There are apparently two types of entities which have gone by the name of 'THE ORANGE': 1) A human like type with (reddish) orange hair; and 2) a reptilian type.
     

38. One woman called in reference to an underground base at the Palloma Ranch 50 miles west of Phoenix (where she lived), which was located near the world's largest nuclear power plant. Much of the plant is underground and utilizes 'migrant' workers in underground installations. She allegedly heard that there was an underground connection between this facility and the 'La Palloma' ranch in California.

     

    She also referred to 'patients' at a hospital where she worked who spoke of 'people with lasers' that had chased them through several states, one of the patients was in a very bad condition, had a high temperature, etc. One being came into the unit in a long white coat trying to pass itself off as a doctor and talked to the woman and a fellow worker 'through telepathy' and 'told' them if they pursued it they 'would be dead.' Before 7 A.M. the two patients were removed from the hospital.
     

39. 3000 feet below the Test Site there is allegedly a huge cavern which can hold 25,000 combat troops, and 500 feet above that there is allegedly another area which can hold 500 officers. Many of the bases were excavated by 'clean' nuclear explosions.
     

40. Lear refers to evidence that intense conflict exists between at least two of the alien species (the two most common, the 'Nordics' and the 'Greys'?).
     

41. Attacks by the 'greys' on people while in the dream state, via electronic or radionic rays.
     

42. Reference to a 'lattice resonator' allegedly captured in an underground base in the Hartz mountains of Germany in 1945.
     

43. How the aliens use cold fusion in order to 'pack' the molecules into tight and seemingly impenetrable forms, as part of the construction of alien craft 'hulls'.
     

44. According to Bob Lazar the greys are 'terrified' of the human race, possibly explaining why they're so intent on hiding their true nature from the masses.
     

45. Reference to an underground base near Ft. Huachuca, Arizona.
     

46. One woman told of a conversation that was 'overhead' between two older men. Part of the conversation included the statement that they had to get back to 'their space station'.
     

47. EMS - Emergency Broadcasting System hardware used to manipulate human behavior.
     

48. Suppression of information by MUFON and other large 'infiltrated' UFO organizations.
     

49. 'Crop Circle' phenomena in 27 countries.
     

50. Military test craft capable of mach 5 to 15.
     

51. The so-called 'Locust' or 'Preying Mantis' type entities seen with the saurian greys during encounters.
     

52. Strange underground drilling and mechanical noises heard under Sierra, California and throughout the Rocky Mountains, etc.

Update on Current Events
A Public Briefing given by John Lear

May 14,1990 in Las Vegas, Nevada

What I'm going to do today is just bring you up to date on some of the stuff that I know that's going on. Obviously, if you came here today, you know that what they call the "phenomenon" is real - it's going on. It's very frightening. I don't have to convince anybody here about what's going on, so instead of going through the usual background of all of this, I'll just start off with a list of what's been happening in the last six months - the stuff that I know that's going on.

To start with, I'd like to start with the issue of missing children. If anyone was at the Bud Hopkins talk at the Spring Valley Library, you will remember that Bud has always made a point of saying:

"My field is abductions, that's all I do, I don't get into any of the other research, I'm not qualified on it, I haven't done the research and so I just stick with abductions. By the way, the Meier case was a fraud; the Adamski case was a fraud; there's no missing children; and Bob Lazar is a fraud."

Bud's a nice guy but he speaks of things that he doesn't know anything about. The Adamski case WAS true. I know it because I talked with the CIA guy that went down to interview him. he was down there for a couple of days and they told him enough that there's no doubt that Adamski had all the experiences that he talked about.

As far as the Meier case, when I first got into what they call "UFOlogy", I was told that the Meier case was a fraud, the pictures were faked, etc. I really believed that, and on one of the first George Knapp interviews that I did I said that the Meier case was a fraud. After about a year, I started checking around to make sure I was on firm ground. I called all the guys I knew in the field and asked them what their best evidence was that Meier was a fraud.

They would say things like, Oh, uh somebody else said that. Then you trace it further and no one seemed to know who was the one that started it. There was a lot of talk that the photos were hoaxed and that he had models in his garage.... the bottom line is that there was no evidence that it was a fraud. In fact, Lazar worked on a machine identical to one of the craft in the Meier photos.

As far as Lazar is concerned, Hopkins said don't believe what government scientists tell you. I have been involved in the Lazar case for about two years and there's no question in my mind that everything he says happened up there actually happened. There are a number of things that happened to him that we're not telling the public, and with good reason. First of all, they wouldn't believe it, and secondly it would not really add that much more to the case.

Bud was on a little shaky ground there. As far as the missing children issue is concerned - Hopkins, in order to prove his case, looked around the audience at the Spring Valley Library (about 250 people) and asked: "Does anybody here know of a missing child?" Of course, no one raised their hand and he said, "I rest my case." That's patently ridiculous. There are quite a number of missing children.

There's an interesting book out called "A Good Night's Story". I heard about it from Bob Oechsler, head of the MUFON section in Maryland, and the story is printed like a children's book and it's about children being abducted. Copies are going into every library and school. It has nothing to do with aliens or anything, but if child abductions is not a big problem, why the wide distribution of the book? There is a telephone number that you can call to order the book, 1-800-444-BLUE. I don't know what's behind it.

I'd like to talk a little about Dulce. The question is: "Is this true, does Dulce exist?" I like to have four independent confirmations about whatever I look into. The fourth confirmation came in several months ago from an aerospace engineer who worked for the Air Force, mainly in designing aircraft and rockets. He was deeply involved in the Space Shuttle program. He said - yes, that in fact he had been at Dulce, that it exists.

He visited the facility for something other than genetic engineering. The name that he knew it by was "Section B". So Dulce does exist. About six months ago, Gabe Valdez' brother found some of the above ground ventilation shafts for the base on the top of Mount Archuleta. They were going to wait until the snow clears, which is just about now, before attempting to investigate further.

I understand that the ducts were rectangular, horizontal, and about 30 feet wide. One of the guys that worked on the Meier video did some very sophisticated frequency analysis of the area and he said:

"Whatever is under there puts out energy of a city the size of New York."

There's just all kinds of stuff going on under there. That's the update on Dulce.

As far as the Greys are concerned, there are all types of Greys. They are definitely cybernetic organisms . They are not a "species" themselves. They work for someone else. There are several different levels of them. There are many instances that indicate that they don't function independently by themselves. They operate from higher orders.

In one particular abduction case, somebody had grabbed one and by the movements of the arms they could see that the Gray had been programmed to fend off an attack by moving its arms in a certain way. All it really had to do was turn around and back away. It points out that they are being programmed.

I would like to cover the incident where the astronauts were supposed to have said that they had an alien spaceship in visual contact. Apparently after very thorough research by Bob Oechsler and his group in Maryland, it turns out that this transmission was sent from a 12 square mile area which included CIA headquarters and the NSA facility at Fort George Meade.

Apparently it was a test of some kind to see "if the public would bite". I really don't know what it was, but that's the area that it was sent from. It was a very sophisticated transmission. It was Blaha's voice, but it was not coming from the Discovery. I thought that was interesting.

I would like to briefly talk about Bill Cooper. George Knapp did a very brutal 20 minutes about Cooper. There are a number of things that are very suspicious about Bill, but I would like to tell you that I believe that Bill Cooper did have access to information in 1973 when he was in the Navy, and that the information did include some information about some of the dealings with the aliens.

It was my understanding when I first met Bill, that when he was stationed at Pearl Harbor he had the key to a classified area. He would go in there at night and read some of these briefings. That's what he told me. Later on, he started saying that he was part of an intelligence briefing team. I don't think he was; at least that's not what he told me. Also, in the beginning he limited his verification of what I was saying by saying "Look, I can only support 50% of what you're saying".

It later became 150%. Nothing is black or white - it's all shades of Gray. Cooper did have access to some information in 1973, but not as much as he would like you to believe he did. You can take that for what it's worth. He has done some very strange things. He has threatened me on at least four occasions. He thinks that I'm with the "Agency" and involved in disinformation, so that's his deal.

The other day, a guy came up to my house who was out in the forest with Charles Halt the very first night of the Bentwaters incident that something landed. There was a rectangular object that landed, and he actually jumped on top of it. He said he could look down inside the object . He has never made any public statement at all . I never thought that I would ever get to meet him. He did in fact confirm that the incident did in fact happen.

As far as an update on AIDS is concerned, AIDS was developed by the Navy in 1972. The specific doctor that developed it was a doctor by the name of R. M. Donner. The initial AIDS research was financed by Congress. July 1, 1969 is when they had the hearings.

This is a copy of the DOD appropriations report for 1970. It was chaired by Robert Sykes. The testimony reveals exactly what they wanted - a biological virus for which there was no known immunity. They finally got it developed in 1972 and started doing experiments. The biggest experiment was in 1977/78 when they released it in Africa, which is now 100% infected. In the United States, in 1978/79 AIDS was released to the white male homosexual population through the Hepatitis B vaccine.

The reason they wanted to start with the white male homosexual population was that they wanted to get it to spread very quickly, and they thought that people would not worry about it if they thought that only drug abusers or homosexuals were involved. That's what happened. The Navy goal WAS to infect 75% of the world's population by April of 1991. Those are from top classified government documents.

What's interesting is that by the present rate of infection, 75% of the population will not be infected by the April 91 target, so what we're looking at is other ways the government may have of spreading this disease. I am kind of happy I don't live in California, where those helicopters are flying up and down spraying for the Medfly.

Whitley Streiber - I heard the other day that he's become a recluse, that he's destroyed emotionally by the reception of "Communion" and his second book "Majestic" - even though it's an excellent book and I would recommend it to anyone who wants a good outline on what the Government did in 1941 when they recovered the saucer at Roswell.

It's an excellent book. One of the interesting things about the book is the two autopsy reports in the back. They are absolutely the truth. I don't know where he got those - the original reports about the two aliens. Whitley used to call me all the time in the middle of the night and chat for two or three hours up until about a year ago.

A little more about Bob Oechsler. Oechsler has done a lot of research in the Chesapeake Bay area. There's really something big going on there. Basically, it appears the HQ of MJ-12 is back on Kent Island or somewhere back there. A lot of EMP research and engineering is going on. A lot of underground activity - all kinds of stuff. What's interesting is that about a year ago he ran into Admiral Inman, who is supposedly one of the MJ-12 members.

Bob stopped him and asked to be put in touch with somebody in MJ-12. Inman took Bob's card and looked at him with kind of a half smile and said, "let me see what I can do."

About 6 months later he called and set up a meeting for Oechsler to go and see General Stafford, who is head of some kind of organization at the Pentagon. Oechsler went to see him and went down some ramps under the Pentagon and into this one corridor where he was required to walk through what he thought was a metal detector, but when he walked through it he felt real dizzy and walked in Stafford's office still kind of reeling from this thing. He asked Stafford, "what in the world was that?". Stafford said, "Don't worry about it, I had a headache for six weeks after first going through that thing."

Bob had a lot of strange things happen to him. Supposedly in September 90, there is going to be another release of government information about UFOs or aliens. Here we go again. Supposedly Oechsler's going to be a part of it. Supposedly they're going to show a saucer and a dead body. I've heard that so many times I don't believe it.

Oechsler is supposedly being briefed on some of the things the government is doing. He was sent down to Ellington AFB near Houston and shown a government research laboratory that we have down there that was 40 feet long, 20 feet wide and it was a zero gravity chamber. It had a very bright light at the top and everybody was floating.

Oechsler is not quite sure where this lab is. He was taken there in a black helicopter that did not look like any of the helicopters we have in inventory. It was very smooth and looked like it was molded in one piece. Oechsler said that it sounded like a helicopter until it was 25 feet off the ground and then there was dead silence. He didn't hear a thing. He estimates that it was near Pensacola where there was a large platform and a number of buildings. He was taken into the building and shown the primary SDI facility, which was a great big room, and suspended on the ceiling was a 25'x25' three dimensional video "presentation".

On it was represented the southeastern portion of the United States and then there was a grid pattern that came up to what was represented as 300,000 feet. There were "vortexes" represented here and there in the gridwork. There were little dots labeled "ASC's". We don't know what that means. You could see flights of some type enter these "vortex" areas and apparently go underground, but if one went down in a different area, it would split up into eight blips. Interesting.

There were only men in there, no women. Everybody had on black pants with a white shirt buttoned up to the collar with a tie. No one smiled. Oechsler doesn't know what the place was. He was just shown it and given no other information. He tried to get in touch with General Stafford after that, but so far no luck.

The aerospace engineer that I spoke of confirmed that Dulce existed and that we do have a base on the Moon. I have several other sources that confirm the base on the Moon. They go there regularly. I don't know what they do there, but it does exist. He also confirmed the existence of the base on Mars. It's already there.

I have come up with some information during the past month about the Challenger accident from an individual who has worked at Cape Kennedy for a number of years. Apparently, the Challenger was blown up by the Russians. It was a KGB unit that did it. They did it using 11 Libyans who had access to the protected areas. An explosive charge was put on the strut that held the SRB to the main fuel tank and it ignited, banging the SRB against the fuel tank.

It was the only launch where all the Russian trawlers pulled out several hundred miles into the ocean away from the Cape. There was also a video and radio link that was held aloft by a balloon, and the night before the launch the cable was cut so they couldn't get any pictures on launch day of the SRB strut area.

There were also a number of other things that happened. Apparently, the Soviet Chernobyl incident was caused by the United States in retaliation for the Challenger incident. Now I am looking into that, and I will let you know what I find out.

I went to a very interesting talk by Bill Hamilton, who's here tonight, and after the talk we went on a very interesting mission to check out the Lockheed skunk works near Los Angeles. This skunk works has done a lot of secret work. As you've read in the papers, they're moving Lockheed to Georgia to do a lot of the work down there.

They are also closing down the plant at Burbank, saying that they are going to move it down to Palmdale, but we think they are moving operations to the Tehachapi mountain area, where there already is an underground facility in the western portion of the Antelope Valley. There was a lot of activity going on there.

We think that saucer craft are being produced at this underground facility using other types of technology. Bill is here today and brings the information that the silo doors at this so-called "Tehachapi Ranch" have been seen to open and a saucer shaped craft has flown out of it. I would have liked to have seen that Sunday night.

The other day I was over Bob Lazar's house and we were looking through a classified book on nuclear bomb technology up until 1960, and we were discussing how many bombs have been exploded in space. Up until 1960 there were at least four. The first one was in August 1958 and was called TEAK. It was a hydrogen bomb exploded 252,000 feet over Johnston Island.

What's interesting about this is that I don't think we had that kind of "capability" in those days of launching things like that. I took out my Jane's "All the World's Spacecraft" and went back and found out that after Sputnik was launched we had (as far as the public was concerned) quite an effort to get something up there ourselves. That was the Redstone and Vanguard rockets. It turns out that the first launch was successful but every one after that failed.

We just couldn't get anything off the ground. All that stuff was just a ruse, because a year later we were launching hydrogen bombs over Johnston Island that weighed two tons. The public was told that we couldn't even get a three pound object into space. Apparently there was a classified launch facility in the Pacific.

With regard to the South African incident, it appears that it was a hoax perpetrated by James Van Gruenen, who has a history of hoaxes. We don't know what the final outcome was. Van Gruenen even offered one producer a chance to meet an alien from the "Space Council". This producer contacted me and I told him to check Van Gruenen's background.

I got a call from Linda Howe a couple days ago, and she told me that there was a discussion by Vice President Quayle about reorienting the SDI toward shooting down an incoming asteroid, and that it was in a paper. She's supposed to send me the article. What is interesting is that we've heard this story for the last two or three years about an incoming asteroid. It's obviously under intelligent control. It's putting out radio emissions.

Supposedly it's on the edge of the solar system now, heading this way. I have at least three confirmations that it does exist. The code name is supposedly "Wormwood". One of the confirmations came from a friend of a guy in the CIA. They were out one night and the CIA guy was drinking heavily and was very depressed. His friend asked him what the matter was, asking "Is it the thing that is coming in from space?"

The agency guy dropped his glass and said, "How do you know about that?" That's one of them. If we are reorienting SDI in that way, that opens a lot of questions about what is going on.