Rick Martin: Let’s talk about one other thing while we’re on this subject, and that is something that, I don’t know how people arrive at this conclusion, but so many Christians are of the belief that Christ died for our sins. I, for one, have said for years that no, that’s not true. He came to show the way.

Red Elk: Are you ready for the answer?

Rick Martin: Sure.

Red Elk: Alright.

The answer is this: They’re right.

The answer is this: You’re right.

Now, let me bridge that. This is part of my job; I’m called “the bridge”.

Christ came as a total human being. God looked down from the Heavens at the people and said: “Why can’t they do what I told them to do? Why are they going amuck like this? Nothing is happening. With them I can’t work.”

And the only way that I’m going to find out is to go down and find out Myself. And the only way that I can do that is to be totally like them - totally. I’ll watch from up here, and let Me down there, in them, as them, walk the Earth and find out if I can find, as a man, what will connect Me, that I told them about, to Me up Here.

So, as a total human being, no more godliness than any of us when we’re born, He came down. During His time, He eventually became what is known as the Savior, the Christ.

I’ve asked many people: “What is the first thing that Christ did that led him on the path to what he ended up as?”

And I get various answers. I, finally, after many years, got the right answer from one person.

People said: “Well, he was baptized.” “He went to church.” “He did this; he did that.” And that’s all true, but that’s not the first thing he did.

The first thing he did was hunger - he hungered to know his Father. He, as a human being and as a Jew, a Jewish human being, saw all the rules and rituals, and heard all the great stories - Moses parted the water - and within walking distance, he could go to some great man’s grave who the stories were about. But nothing was happening; hadn’t happened for 200, or better, years - nothing. God was “dead”. It was just becoming fables and myths.

And yet, they claim He was the Father of their people. Well, he wondered if there really was a God. If there was, why weren’t things happening? So, he hungered to find out if that was a bunch of bs, or true. And he hungered to know the Father of his people - not the dad of conception, but the Dad of the people.

He, as a human being, hungered, and in that hunger, he started finding truths, until eventually he did certain things. He went into the desert. He fasted. And the Bible said he went into the wilderness to fast often, not just the forty days and nights. He himself was baptized. He did many things. And he said: “Follow me.” And if people will do exactly what he did, they can do exactly what medicine people can do who follow him - love.

Now, in so doing, at the end times of this great search of his, and this great in-knowledge that he was receiving, he recognized himself as a good possibility of being “the Savior”, “the Christ”; and in that, he knew that the Christ was going to die a horrible death.

But, he prayed so hard that blood came out of his pores, so says Scriptures. He didn’t want any part of the way that death was coming about, no part. Himself, his tonal, his physical mind and body didn’t want it, not if it could help it.

But his spiritual mind said: “Nevertheless, Father, Your Will be done, not mine.”

He went to the cross to prove his own convictions, as well as prove to the world that, by doing what he had done, and learned, and had taught, that there is no death. And he willingly went to that cross, and was put to death, to prove to himself, and everybody else, that God was alive.

Christ, literally, died for his own convictions; died to prove that all he had learned in his hunger walk to find the Father of his people was true, and the only thing left to prove it was no death. So he died to prove to the world that the Creator lived for them. He died to prove to himself that the Creator lived for him; and the rest is history.

People look at Christ as some kind of gifted guy. Yeah, he had a lot of money when he was a baby. A bunch of camels came with loot. But, nevertheless, they look at him like he was the Son of God. What a bunch of dweebs. They claim they are sons of God through adoption. Well why don’t they act it? Don’t make excuses for your lack of doing, your lack of faith. And don’t write new words in the Bible.

So far, I have found every Christian to be nothing but a liar. ALL claim to believe 100% in the Word of God - until they don’t believe it. And then they make an excuse or write it out. A bunch of liars! And I’ve told them, too, to their face, pastors included. And then I point it out, and they look awful sick when I’m done.

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Rick Martin: This may be off-track, it may not be. Are you familiar with Christ going on after the crucifixion, going on to teach many, many years in different places?

Red Elk: I’m familiar with the so-called truth of that. I’m familiar with the fact that people are claiming he was married, and had children. It is not so. His brother, who carried the last name, if you would, was married and had children. No, Christ did not. He came back for a short period; over 500, I believe, saw him, talked to him. And then he did go up into the air. Christ taught, and we have learned, as medicine people, how to “split”. For instance, I can literally - and it’s hard for me to do this - be seen, sit with, eat, drink, drive a car, at 11 different places at once. It’s called “splitting”. Some people know how to do this. Christ is not dead. He’s not spirit. He does live in the Heavens, and has learned to do the same thing, but he has chosen to do so inside a believer’s body. Do you understand?

Rick Martin: I think so. Can you explain it?

Red Elk: He comes into you. Where I have learned to - I do not go in, even at invitation. I don’t; it’s not my job; it’s not my safety zone; it’s not what I’m ordered to do. I do not go in and possess, or occupy, another human being; I don’t do it.

But, HE is perfect. He can and does do it. Scripture says: “Invite Him into your life.” The Bible says: “Invite me in, and I will come in.” At your personal commitment, your own personal ok, the living Christ does a split and appears in front of you, and sits down and sups with you, and you with him. He comes inside you to help you, at your own, personal invitation.

So, no, Christ did not come back and walk the Earth as a single man, all over the place; no. And he certainly did not get married, no.

[Interviewer’s Note: As an investigative journalist with a longtime, special, personal interest in this particular subject matter, over the years I have managed to accumulate a number of books which document the journey of Christ AFTER the crucifixion, which includes sojourns to India and Kashmir, among other places.

For those of you wishing to research this subject yourself, here are a few titles you might want to study:

  • He Walked The Americas by L. Taylor Hansen (1963, Amherst Press)

  • Jesus Lived In India - His Unknown Life Before and After The Crucifixion by Holger Kersten (1986, Element Books, ISBN: 0-906540-90-9)

  • The Talmud Of Jmmanuel (ISBN: 0-926524-12-7)

  • The Jesus Conspiracy - The Turin Shroud & The Truth About The Resurrection by Holger Kersten & Elmar R. Gruber (Element Books, ISBN: 1-85230-666-1)

  • The Jesus Mystery - Of Lost Years and Unknown Travels by Janet Bock (ISBN: 0-937736-00-7)

  • Jesus’ Tomb In India - Debate On His Death And Resurrection by Paul C. Pappas (ISBN: 0-89581-946-5)

  • Where Did Jesus Die? by J.D. Shams (ISBN: 1-85372-190-5)

  • Jesus In India by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (ISBN: 1-85372-196-4)

According to all of the above books, Christ’s brother Didymos (the twin) Judas Thomas traveled with Christ to India. Didymos Judas Thomas preached throughout India, and was eventually killed on the Central/East coast of India, on a hillside just outside the town of Madras. He was unmarried throughout his life.  -  R.M.]

But, he IS in anyone who is dead serious about growing spiritually. That’s him, his own personal split body, physical body, inside, when you are serious and ask him about it. And even then, he does not take control. Even then, he leaves you to do your own will, and he is there to pick you up when you fall, and to give you strength, falling or walking.

Does that answer your question?

Rick Martin: Yes.

The battle that is about to ensue, or is happening now - Christ has a battle in front of him with Lucifer, also, doesn’t he?

Red Elk: Nope, nope, nope. You see, Lucifer already knows he has lost.

Rick Martin: Sure he does.

Red Elk: He knows it. But he will come as a roaring lion. He knows that he cannot take souls, any more than he can get. Those who are, so-called, perfectly possessed are his. And he gets them.

But, no. What he’s doing is just coming as a roaring lion. He is making all the peoples from all the planets come over and cause all the hurt and harm to each other. He knows, when those people die, if they’re going into the Heavens or not. He already knows this. He knows he’s lost. He’s got just a few from each planet - himself, personally, who will belong to him. He knows he’s already lost.

So what is the war in the Heavens now? Just the very beginning of that roaring lion - ripping, shredding, screaming, anger, hate, madness.

Do you understand?

Rick Martin: I know that Christ lives. I know that he is watching very carefully what is happening on the planet now, and at some point his role is going to be very direct.

Red Elk: Oh yes, Armageddon.

Rick Martin: How do you perceive Christ’s role in what is coming?

Red Elk: He’s the finisher. I can say no more than that. I should not have to. HE IS THE FINISHER. But it’s only the finisher for this time. We will have some time - close to 3,000 almost 4,000 years before the FINAL DAY, the DAY OF JUDGMENT COMES.

Rick Martin: The last few decades have brought about a great number of channels. What is your feeling or knowing about channeled material?

Red Elk: In general, dangerous; overall, dangerous; and overall, b.s.

Gail Cortright: Thank you, thank you.

Rick Martin: Along this same line, how to you see Creator having a voice in these End Times? How do you see that manifesting?

Red Elk: I don’t understand the question.

Rick Martin: I’m not sure I’m asking this right.

Gail Cortright: In my opinion, directly to people who have that connection with Creator.

Red Elk: I’m still not sure of the question. That’s alright, let’s get it right. Let’s get it where I can answer it.

Rick Martin: In these End Times there is a great deal of turmoil, conflict, confusion among people. Creator is alive and well, and always has been, and Christ is alive and well. How do you see the confused people receiving their answer from God when petitioned? Only quietly, within themselves, or through speakers?

Red Elk: There will be, and are, true prophets. When a prophet speaks, a prophet of God, there is such an authority, such an unshakable authority, that behind the words themselves, they know they are listening to something so strong, it is possibly incomprehensible. Those are the people of God, the prophets of God.

Will they come quietly? Many will come quietly. Many will hear the Word of God in their mind as they read the Word of God. If they seek the Creator’s truth, in the Word, by reading, and ask the Creator to show Himself to them, trying to disregard what they believe, or heard, or were taught - just total, like a brand new baby - God will talk to them. Each individual word will blow-up like a shell.

God needs no interpreter. He needs nothing. All He wants, and really needs, if you want to call it a need, is for honesty; people with true hearts who are honestly looking for the truth.

And they’re not going to find it in any denomination, any religion. They will find it, it ends up, in one thing only: love; and that, I mean, is nothing to do with human love; this is GOD LOVE.

They will find that oneness with God. And the whole group finding this oneness will be the TRUE BODY OF BELIEVERS. You can call yourself Buddhist, Christian believer or Christ follower, Muslim, you can go there and kneel on your rug and pray to the East in the name of God. For a Muslim that name is Allah. There should be no fight over names. Allow the way they feel comfortable in their culture. If they want to remain there, fine, just as love, pure love.

Christ, didn’t die for one religion. He died for all mankind, on all planets, in all planes, all times. One guy, and only one, and it happened here on this planet, died for everyone, and proved that that Word that he followed, he searched for, he hungered after, and he learned and taught. It is in Scripture how to do what he did. It’s taught - proved to himself and proved to the world that what he learned was true. Love is the answer. And people, no matter how they get to that conclusion, and fall completely upon that conclusion, go nowhere else but in that conclusion, they are the Body of Believers; they are the so-called Church. And I don’t care if they’re Black, Yellow, Green, Plaid. I don’t like it, but if they have to kill a chicken because that’s their culture, and pray to God, maybe God will lead them out of that. That’s not my business. My business is to love my brother, who loves my Father, just like I love Him.

Gail Cortright: Well, I personally, going back to what you were talking about earlier, about false prophets, whatever you want to call them. A lot of people are really afraid, or don’t believe that they can have that connection to Christ, or to Creator, themselves.

Red Elk: They run after false prophets.

Gail Cortright: That’s right.

Red Elk: Worshiping and awe-inspired by false prophets.

Gail Cortright: That’s right. In speaking about the channeled material, so often -

Red Elk: So often, the channeled material is so true, you accept it. So, all they have to do is insert one untruth. And to me, the Bible, its got many names on its cover - it says “holy” Bible, in general.

I see it also says: War - A Manual Of Warfare, on how to defeat the enemy.

I also see that it says: Love.

And I also see that it says: Safety Net.

If people would just sit down and read the Scriptures - never mind what they feel about it. I don’t care if they’re Muslims; I don’t care if they’re atheists. If they just read Scriptures, like they pick up any other book, and READ IT, then when a decision comes, they will know, automatically, if it is morally correct, or if it’s immoral, or if it’s against the Law. If it is against the Law, and the Law happens to be morally incorrect - you know, in Germany, WWII, the Law made it morally incorrect - YOU FOLLOW LOVE, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOUR LIFE.

Gail Cortright: That’s a pretty strong statement.

Red Elk: Well, my sister -

Gail Cortright: I agree with you, by the way.

Red Elk: I have many people who call me, write me - boy do I get it! Their “Guides” tell them to do this, and their “Guides” tell them that; and they want me to think highly that they’ve got “Guides”, or are following a human being. And they claim I have a “Guide”. I have no “Guide”. I have a guideline.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: I have no enemies. If they think I’m their enemy, they are mistaken. I mean, that’s their decision. I have two people I won’t even go around, but that’s because I don’t like what they do.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: But I stand back. They are my brother and sister. It happens to be a man and a woman. And I pray for them, because they are my brother and sister, and I am not to “down them”, I am not to hurt them, bad-mouth them, and on and on. I don’t have to like what they’re doing, but I love them because they came from the same MIND WOMB that I did, the MIND WOMB OF GOD.

Gail Cortright: Right, right.

Rick Martin: Do you perceive a time when we all will be sitting around the campfire, in the next dimensions, telling tales of this experience, and laughing?

Red Elk: I cannot “knowingly” say that. By knowing, I’m speaking truly, completely, wholly knowing. Maybe we will do something similar, laughing at our own mistakes, our own stupidity.

Rick Martin: That’s what I mean.

Red Elk: Not laughing at somebody else’s.

Rick Martin: I was referring more to ourselves.

Red Elk: Not saying, “Do you remember when YOU did it?”

Instead, let them tell you they remember it. And then, enjoy it. There is no bad. You look back on it, and overall, it was all for your growth. There will be nothing around any campfire. If there is a campfire, that will be nothing more, or less, than love.

Gail Cortright: So what do you think about people who say this is all a play? There’s no right, there’s no wrong; it’s just a play.

Red Elk: In truth, my sister, when the Creator, on the Day of Judgment - first off, let me back-up just a bit. Hades exists only for your own “pleasure”, believe it or not; call it displeasure if you’d like. You believe, subconsciously, that you belong there, so you go there. Or, you believe you’re going to Heaven, so you go there.

In the Final Days, ALL will stand before the Creator, even the Angels. And they will - now, this is the Great Judgment Day, 1,000 years away yet, or 3,000, or 4,000. Nevertheless, you go to hell because, subconsciously, you believe that’s where you belong. It’s not necessarily God’s belief. But even in that, He doesn’t go against your will.

You believe you may go to Heaven. Yet, Scriptures say, many say, “Lord, Lord” - and I will say “I know you not.” They are nothing more than chaff in the wheat, but they believe they belong up there; and thus, they will go up there. But on the Great Day of Judgment, they’ll find out that’s not where they belong.

And those who are down below, many of those will find out they’ve just judged themselves; that’s not the way God judges. And there will be a great shifting. And you will hear a lot of smacking, as people kick each other in the butt, and kick themselves in the butt. Many who are in Lucifer’s realm, being tortured now, according to THEIR OWN BELIEFS, will find out they had no need to be there. And many, right now in the Heavens, will find out they have no right to be there.

And death will - this is the death the Bible speaks of fearing - death will be, kind-of imagine all of the ones who have been so self-centered, so self-possessed, or literally sold-out entirely to Lucifer, in all ways; look at them like a great mass of tadpoles in a great sack of tadpoles. Do you understand what I mean?

Gail Cortright: Yes.

Red Elk: Each tadpole, in it’s own tiny little sack, within this great mass of sack, is an individual being, a soul, a human being - that will be cast out of God’s Mind. There is the FINAL DEATH. There is the eternal hell. Though you be in a mass of other tadpoles, you will not be aware of any other tadpole in this great mass. You will be aware of only yourself, separated forever from God, and no more to ever, ever have a chance to repent. You’ve done it all. THERE, my friend, is a hell worse than Hades is now.

Answered the question?

Gail Cortright: I know what the question was, everybody talking about how this is a play.

Red Elk: Oh, I’ll tell you, this is a very serious play. You’d better play it right.

Gail Cortright: That’s kind-of how I feel. When people talk about, “Oh, this is just a play” -

Red Elk: That’s their path, sister; let them think it.

Gail Cortright: Yeah, absolutely.

Red Elk: We have no choice. We cannot force, or in any way make another change their path.

Gail Cortright: That’s right.

Red Elk: All you can do is live YOUR path, and live it in such a manner that it makes them hungry to find out what your path is all about. Only example, ONLY LOVE will bring these ratty moths to the light, and whether they choose that light or not, is still their choice.

Gail Cortright: That’s true.

Red Elk: You cannot win them all.

Gail Cortright: And when you’re talking of love, a lot of people have the, I think, misconception that when you’re talking about love, even unconditional love - like you were saying, you don’t have any enemies, you stay away from people. You love them, but you don’t like what they do. And I think a lot of people, when they think about love, they feel like they have to accept everything that anybody does.

Red Elk: No, don’t cast your pearls before the swine, which can mean many things within that one phrase. You don’t put yourself in the way, stepping in front of a freight train that is not going to stop - in this case, a human being who’s got his/her own way - get off the track and just be a light.

Gail Cortright: Exactly, exactly. But a lot of people think they have to get hit by that freight train, because that’s what love means.

Red Elk: No, no, no; personally I think that they’re crazy. (Laughter)

Gail Cortright: (Laughter) So do I.

Red Elk: The Bible speaks about, again, the Safety Net; I use the Bible as my Safety Net. When someone does you wrong, you know, turn your cheek and let them hit you on the other side, like that; forgive them X times X amount, like that. But yet, there comes a point where, why torture yourself ? They are God’s children, stand back. Get out of their reach, and let God do the work. Just pray to God, as you pity them in humility - in honesty and in compassion pray for those ones.

Gail Cortright: Absolutely.

Red Elk: Don’t get beat-up. Christ had to stand there and get beat-up because he was proving, to himself, and to the world, that it’s worth it, overall.

Rick Martin: You write about the Red Sky. Can you explain what the Red Sky is?

Red Elk: The Red Sky is in Scriptures. I don’t believe it tells in Scriptures, I might be mistaken, on how long this will last. It is also in our own Indian prophecies. We call it “the Orange Sky”.

If I recall the prophecies correctly, it will last day and night for 7 or 8 days. When that great sign in the sky appears, that means that, from that moment on, you can travel instead of 24 hours ahead, you can travel weeks and months ahead, because there are no more probables, no more chances to turn left or right. We, then, are definitely on the no longer probable, but the dead-on End of the Trail.

Rick Martin: So the hourglass is empty at that point?

Red Elk: That’s it. We have no chances, from there on in. The Great Sign in the sky.

Rick Martin: So you’re saying, after the False Rapture, many of the true believers will still be on the planet, but it will be a very turbulent time, a very painful time, physically, for many people?

Red Elk: But more so for those who are left behind, as believers, of those who believe in pure love, it will be far worse on them then the others. But, don’t misunderstand me. The others are going to be going through all kinds of hell themselves, drinking their own urine, for lack of water, eating human beings, for lack of food. It is going to be the worst thing you have seen in your life. There has never been, ever, ever been on any planet, any dimension, any plane, a catastrophe like is going to happen here when the great mousetrap springs its steel bar across the neck of all who have come to nibble at we, the bait.

Rick Martin: But we, as cheese in the trap, will also be caught in the physical experience of whatever unpleasantness there is.

Red Elk: Yes, yes, yes - until they’re taken-up, or they might die before. But they will be taken-up. It could be hours, or days, I have no idea, before the actual event called Armageddon comes. These are the ones, the survivors, the ones who are left behind when the others are taken into captivity. And only two will be left (or three, I’m not sure, like I said) - two or three prophets.

Rick Martin: Now, ultimately this planet is moving into Radiance, as I understand it.

Red Elk: Oh, you bet. Because you see, we’ve been dwelling on nothing but the bad aspects of what’s coming.

Rick Martin: Right, let’s shift toward the radiant aspect.

Red Elk: Right. And people worry about what’s coming. They don’t see the Great Ahead. When that mousetrap is finally snapped, there will be few human beings on this planet left alive. And believe me - I really doubt if there will be ANY human beings IN or ON this Earth; they’re all taken off. At least, that’s the way it looks; I can’t say for certain.

So, we will be all alone. Scriptures talk about a third of the planet’s population will die, through pollution and what not. And that’s already taking effect, now. But if people read carefully, it will say, after that, a third of those left will also die. And if they read carefully on, they will find a third of those left will die - leaving us very, very few humans.

I don’t know, 10 million, whatever, across our planet. I may be way off on my numbers. But nevertheless, a third, a third, and a third, gone; then x amount will remain. There will be no more Red man. There will be no more Black man, or White, or Chinese, or any other color or creed. You might now hate Mexicans, or Indians, or Chinese, or whatnot. At that time, if you are a survivor who has gone through all of this - if you, say you hate a Black person, just can’t stand to breathe around them, and they you, if you happen to run across one of them on the vast, devastated island called Earth, and see each other, and one’s male and one’s female, believe me, you will run and embrace each other. It might be the only human you have seen in months, and you’ll be glad.

Anyway, odd thing is, during that time it will take 30 years to regroup, to regroup our own individual census. Because there will be no roads, you’d be lucky to find a road that’s two or three miles long before it’s all blown-up, or torn-up by earthquakes or wars. No roads, no factories, cities - it will just be half-crazed people living in cities. Stay away from them. The real “Road Warrior” movies, that type of thing. It’s going to be hell.

That first 30 years, a lot people are going to perish because they don’t know how to survive. They don’t know how to hold a dead branch and turn it into a fruit-bearing branch within their hands, and eat the fruit there from. They don’t know; we do. They don’t know it can be done. Again, the only limit is: you can’t be God, Lucifer, or Christ - that’s it.

And my job, what I’ve been ordered to do, is to teach that you can do everything but those things!

And when people come to me, I spend two days with them. If they’re dead serious about learning, I give them enough information that, on their own, they can continue between them and the Creator, and grow and grow and grow, and hold a dead branch, and shut their eyes, and image it into a reality, and eat of it. They can go to a cesspool of a little 3-inch trickle of water, and remember what it was like before the wars, and before the tribulation, remember it, and image it - I cannot give that stronger - image it so strongly that the water, when they open their eyes, it’s now a 5-foot wide, sparkling, tinkling, beautiful brook - not pollution, not 3 inches wide.

We can recreate from our own mind, for the Scripture says “Ye are as gods” - little g. The medicine people know this. Not everyone knows everything about how to do everything. And, frankly, I’ve asked the medicine people to come out, to quit hiding these sacred secrets, to quit being so damned heady that you are afraid to give this out to the world, in general. I’ve got a lot of “enemies” out there. [As a result of reluctance from his contemporaries to agree with Red Elk’s request. They’d rather keep the knowledge to themselves.]

Rick Martin: How do they respond to you when you say this?

Red Elk: Only 1, 2 have responded. And one, saying I’m right, but doing nothing about it; the other one saying I’m right, and starting to do. And, I’ll tell you, the Red man, and all others who are of medicine across the world, who do not do this, we are the equivalent of the pastors that the Scripture says: “Give them the knowledge. You are responsible for your flock.”

Our flock is the world. And Scriptures tell the pastors: “Teach them.” If you do not, it’s going to be on your head!

And I tell you, there’s many different denominations in the Christian world, many, many - well, all really - of all religions, every religion you can name - except for the religion of those who continuously, with no exceptions, worship Lucifer - they’ve got to rise-up, they’ve got to go beyond their pride, their false humility. People are coming to them to learn, and all of a sudden the “pastors” are getting all puffy-shirted about it; they don’t want to give up their little secrets. They want people to come to them, a bunch of false gods, sitting around.

Gail Cortright: That’s exactly right.

Red Elk: Listen, I don’t care if you do put a rug down and pray to the East. God bless you for doing it. You love God that much, in that culture - go for it, my brother; go for it, my sister. Add love, and you will be perfect in spirit. Throw out the traditional crap; add love. The Bible is not for Christians. The Bible is not a religion. The Bible is the way of life. Love is the way of life.

Gail Cortright: And that’s the bottom-line, isn’t it?

Red Elk: Yes, it is. People look at the Bible and say: “Look at this killing, and that war, and blah, blah, blah….”

“Look deeply, my brothers and sisters” I say. “Look deeply!” They did not obey Him, and He said: “If you don’t, you’re gonna get a spanking.” So why are you so stupid as to blame God for holding up to His word? That God is a good Father. Many children have straightened-up because of a good, swift spanking.

Gail Cortright: That’s very true.

Red Elk: I’m probably not what you expected, but I am an Inner Heyoka. And we learned purity. My ancestors of this society - not personal ancestors but society ancestors - they learned purity. There were only 13 left when the Christ left, only 13.

And over the years, people came to the original 13 who followed the Christ, followed his learning and his teachings, and would say: “Heal us of this, please; heal us of that, please” - until they came to us as if we were their slaves, with nothing better in life but to do what they wanted.

And they failed to start bringing us food for our time spent with them. We couldn’t go out and hunt. We couldn’t get firewood for our lodges. Just because they happen to be so damned nice to come in here and say: “Hey, pray for me.”

Understand? At first, it was pretty good. But they forgot that. And one of the 13 decided enough is enough, and when they called for him, he said: “Ok, I’ve got an idea.”

And this one went to the encampment asking for prayer. This one brought drums, and rattles, and masks. And he began chanting, and rattling, and doing a dance, and blowing smoke, and all kinds of crud. He put on a vaudeville act, and entertained them, as well as did what he was there for in the first place - purity healing, without entertainment. They liked what they saw; they gave him money (or the equivalent); he came home with a big breadbasket type of thing.

From there on in, everybody said: “Let’s go to Green Eagle”, or whoever, “because he entertains us. He’s pretty funny. He’s a lot of fun, and his entertainment works.”

Well, it works without his entertainment. He knew that. But he was after trying to get them to supply the needs of him and his family.

The other 12, they did not turn that way. So, tradition began with Mr. 13. That’s where tradition is; that’s where it came from. It was not purity out of tradition, but tradition out of purity.

So, today they come to me, and I have to ask: “Creator, what would you have me do?” And He will tell me what to do, or what not to do, and I have to obey Him.

He’ll say: “They asked in the Indian way, so give in the Indian way” - which is tradition. And I do. They expect it that way. It healed grandma. It healed great grandma, six aunts, and a cousin, that way. So they put their faith in the healing power of that way, including the prayers. And the Indian people have gone total tradition.

I have had a word of one I know, who, a few years ago - over 5 years now - medicine man, a very, very spiritually-minded medicine man, a young guy, he said: “I am so happy to see our people coming back to the traditional ways of being Indian.”

By that he means, for example, the ways of learning to talk with Earth Mother and all that.

And he said: “But I fear it is not enough.” And that’s the truth of it. The full-blood traditional Indians are running on nothing but fumes. And in not many years ahead, they will not be able to go out and pick the plant that heals this or that. So, without knowing purity, they will die. And those who come to them will die, because they have only learned the plants. They have only learned the traditional way. They have not learned to connect and do it without the crutch. I tell you, it might take a 100-mile walk to find one plant to heal a particular thing, and that’s all they’ve learned; that’s all they know. They have lost their spiritual touch with the Creator.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: What else?

Rick Martin: I’m looking at my notes from your booklet. It almost seems off-track from where we’ve gone. I am curious, at the very least, about these two Queens, but I don’t want to detract from where we’ve been.

Red Elk: Well, for the sake of the reader, I have taken from my book - a very large book but it’s all in handwriting, it’s not typed; typed it should run about 1400 pages - how to do everything that I talk about. I say everything, but that’s not true. There are some things I’m not allowed to tell. It would just go into the wrong hands and cause great trouble.

But almost everything. I teach also, through that book, how I’ve learned to come to different knowing. And when I say knowing, I say that in huge, triple-sized letters: K N O W I N G! When I say “I know it”, believe me, I know it. Whether you believe it or not, that’s your problem.

Anyway, this part spoken of [in the shorter booklet which Rick had a copy of ] is just the lifting of a very few of the pages out of that particular large book. “The Queens” referred to are the Lizard Queens, the heads of the Lizard people, the Draconian people; they’re both women. And for centuries they have despised each other. I don’t know, maybe somebody complained about the other one’s cooking.

I don’t know what it all started with; I have no idea. But they just cannot stand each other. And they are at constant bickering with each other.

And they have taken many, from many different worlds. And one Queen has won some of those people to that side, some to the other side. And these are ones who think that they are God.

So, instead of going out and having a slap-fest amongst each other, the two, they use what they have got on their side to fight the other. It is simply control, by one side, against the other side, and the other side against the one side, using us as the slappers, those who do drive-bys, those who do mass killing. Oh, my gosh, it’s just unbelievable.

Most people, in general, can accept Lucifer, but laugh at me about talking about Lizards. And, truthfully, the Lizards are all over the dang place, on this surface, under this surface, out in space, on their worlds. They are quite the conquerors, and they are only 1 of 4 that are in alliance. I call them the “Unholy Alliance” or the “Unholy Four”.

If you only knew how these people work; they work with technology. You have people who have inserts - laugh at that, laugh at an insert, if you please - but there are doctors actually removing strange little glass-like or metallic-like slivers. These are inserts that are put into our human beings, and other human beings on other planets, to tell where you are, tell what your blood-rate is, and so on. But that is only secondary. These Unholy Four, or at least 3 of the 4, dwell on anger, hate, misery, everything ugly.

Rick Martin: Now, to clarify for our readers, we’re not talking about 4 beings, we’re talking about 4 races of beings. Is that right?

Red Elk: Correct. Anyway, they actually have machinery, down below, in our ground, here on this planet, and I assume the rest are the same way, machinery that they can aim at a group, or a person, press a button, and make that person or group react in some ungodly way.

They then, SUCK - and I mean this - suck on the emotion. They have pressed a button, aimed a machine at you, and you are controlled to throw out that emotion. They then suck on it like somebody who’s sipping a cocktail or who just likes to have a midday snack.

They actually walk along, and if they get hungry for a snack, they stop at one of these pieces of machinery, see who’s up there with these inserts, press a damn button, and get a reaction, and suck that energy. Like you and I would stop for an ice cream cone, or drink a soda, or coffee, or a drink of liquor.

Rick Martin: So, when we talk about Lucifer or the adversarial forces thriving on negative energy, it is a literal, actual thing.

Red Elk: Oh, it is, it is. Lucifer is a different matter. He doesn’t thrive on that. All he wants is conquering. He wants to be God, period! He doesn’t get off on that. His demons do, but he doesn’t.

Rick Martin: Where do the Greys, the so-called Grey aliens, factor into this?

Red Elk: The Greys are part of the Unholy Four.

Rick Martin: You call them the “Bee People”?

Red Elk: Yeah, I do. Most of the Natives call them Insect People. I like to call them Bee People, mainly because - first off, let me say this: These, out of the Unholy Four, do not suck on energy. It doesn’t turn them on at all. They have other reasons to be in the Four. Their reason is: originally they became as they were, which is now an almost totally extinct people, because they went, eons ago, to the Federation of Planets, asking to be allowed to come to this Earth to experiment, to get our DNA into their bodies, so they could eliminate hate, anger, and so forth. They were given permission.

Now, again, these people are playing God. They didn’t go to God; they didn’t know God. And the others, as far as they’re concerned, they’re in charge of this. They gave them permission. In so doing, they were successful. They got the DNA - but in so doing, that eliminated ALL EMOTIONS of the Greys, ALL EMOTIONS.

Now, the odd thing is - I’m speaking of the tall Greys, the real Greys. The little short guys are like “plants” - greenery, growing - with the ability to think for themselves, but are basically nothing more than cloned shorties of the real thing, to do the bidding of the real thing; kind-of a slave. And there are many, many of those. And easy come, easy go; one gets killed or whatnot, just grow another one.

Meanwhile, the rest, the true Greys, are much taller, by quite a bit, than the little ones. And I have never seen a female Grey, true Grey. It appears that their playing with emotions - what actually happened is, it killed their sex life.

People need to be held, touched, loved, sweet-talked. Basically, when a woman is being raped, she might have an orgasm, but if she is raped constantly, she can turn that orgasm off. If she is being violated, without love emotions, she will turn it off, consciously or subconsciously. And this is what happened to the original Greys; the love emotion was gone.

So, over the centuries, sex life ceased to exist. So, those original Greys are almost, now, extinct. They then started growing these little guys as a workforce to DNA us. Again, they went back to the damn council, and the council gave them permission. They are utilizing our DNA to get the emotions back into them, before they totally become obliterated.

So, the Greys are working with these other three, and thus, I call them the Unholy Four. But just for their own agenda; they do not have the desire to suck fear and hate and all of that negative-energy stuff. They just want to get DNA back into their genetics and get their race back on foot again.

The little guys, these are God-aware people, like a tree is. They have no soul, these little ones; they don’t need a soul, they’re plants. But they are intelligent, talking, thinking, physical-doing plants. They’re not locked into the ground. They can walk around. And they’re getting their own “high ideas” that if they can overcome the true Greys, their makers, they think, then they can become a race unto ourselves. That’s their plan.

But it’s all in the book I assembled, The Agendas.

So, it’s all a big mess, a big total mess, and frankly it all starts with Lucifer, who came to this planet, and digging deep within our planet, to get to his right heat zone, and then sending his 1/3 angels out throughout all dimensions, times, and planes, who in turn, went deep in-ground, and started being little miniature Lucifers, under command of the great Lucifer, and eventually infiltrated every planet in existence that has human being life. And, like I said, we are a relatively new planet. All these already infiltrated others are now in us, too, and they all claim us. And, in fact, Lucifer, hidden, claims all of us. But only God has us.

Rick Martin: Where do you feel
the Pleiadians come into this picture?

Red Elk: You know, I’m not sure. All I know is they have their own agenda. None have an agenda for us. The Pleiadians seem to be pretty nice people. In these bunch of spacecraft that are coming for the false Rapture gathering, a certain number of spacecraft have been allowed that would not do the harm the others will do, into this huge fleet. And, whoever goes on those ships will be awful lucky Christians, I’ll guarantee you. At worst, they will be given robes and stuff, and wash dishes, and be a nanny on another island - but they won’t be eaten alive; they won’t be raped, in general; and they’ll have a pretty easy life compared to the others, a darned easy life.

Rick Martin: Let’s bring this conversation around to here and now. It is a very fearful time on our planet for a lot of people; a crazy time with Bush warring with other nations. What do you see happening, here and now, on the planet, and what words can you give our readers to find solace during a crazy time in our planet’s history.

Red Elk: First off, we are right on time, literally. All that is taking place all around us is no accident, but is a design, placed long ago on the greatest probability. We have been following the greatest probability.

That does not mean that we could not turn around now. We certainly haven’t turned around, yet. But we CAN go down that path instead of hitting the accident, until the skies change. But, nevertheless, everything is running in perfect control.

Remember, there is no death, when you die, no matter how you die, until that final death, that final Day of Judgment, comes, you’re going to go from this life into a much more powerful life. Hopefully you will all wake up - but you’ll get what you want. God isn’t going to go against your will. And some don’t even want to go up or down, they’re afraid. They’re not sure where they belong, so they become “shades” - ghosts to you. And some stay because they want to protect certain areas that are called power spots.

All I can say is: grow spiritually! It’s hard to say, but: don’t worry, be happy; it’s all going according to Plan, and God is not an ant’s step off of the greatest probability. And by the way, He’s on the other probabilities, too! He splits; He knows them all.

Basically, the best thing to do is get in connection with the Scriptures. Get in connection with the Creator in those Scriptures, or in any way that you know is the Creator. And search Him out diligently. Search out what He wants you to do. He will warn you. Learn to pay attention. He will guide you. Learn to pay attention. Be willing to share, but don’t force what you’re being told. Don’t start a damn “follow me” thing - follow Christ.

Look to yourself. You are the first one you should be concerned about in your spiritual growth. If you do so, and grow in love and in spirit, then those within your own household - your wife, or husband, or children, or grandparents, or parents - they will see a difference and hunger, and you can start a fire in them.

And if we can do this, just enough, if enough would listen, and really hunger, and start searching, seeking, and finding, we can change the sky. It can be for our great, great, great, great grandchildren. And everything will be hunky-dorey here, everything will calm down.

Rick Martin: That’s a good place to stop.

Red Elk: This Earth IS paradise, we’re the ones who mess it up. We’re the ones afraid we’re going to slip in it, and yelling about the stench of it all. But guess what? You’re one of those who contributed to the mess! Quit blaming everybody else, and look at yourself.

Gail Cortright: That’s right, look at yourself, and stop waiting for everybody else to do it for you. And that means, to me, while a lot people look at the “upper echelon”, the President, the Enron people, and all that, what they fail to do is look at themselves. And you know what? They’re doing business without integrity, their morals really suck. Excuse me.

Red Elk: Why excuse you?

Gail Cortright: But you know what I mean?

Red Elk: Yes, I do know.

Gail Cortright: They’re looking at all these other people, and they fail to look at themselves, and go: God, you know what, I have no integrity. I have no morals. My children don’t know how to say please and thank you.

Red Elk: Or sir.

Gail Cortright: Right, they have no respect. They’re not taught any. So, I wholeheartedly agree with you when you say you’ve got to start with yourself. And that’s my soap-boxing for the day.

Red Elk: Well, I’ll tell you. If you stop to realize that you are, literally, “wanted” - that’s why you’re here. God wanted you. You are a child of God, automatically. He wanted you, and made you into being. If God can love you, as dirty as you are, then maybe you ought to take a second look at yourself, and say: “I must be worth something.” And start loving yourself, because Papa loves ya.

Gail Cortright: That’s right, there you go.

Rick Martin: That’s a good note to end on.

Red Elk: So, we end for now.

[Then, later, some follow-up comments.]

Red Elk: We speak, in our Indian way, about learning Sacred Silence and Duality of Spirit. And, I tell you, it’s really something. This really puts you in connection with yourself, and once you start seeing yourself, you start reaching out for help, because you see yourself, and you’re a pretty ugly looking kid, you know. And this God, who loves you, you start searching out and reaching out, in your blindness, in your filth, that’s in your eyes and everywhere else, and He reaches down and touches your hand and says: “I am here.” And then helps clean you up. But it starts with Sacred Silence, the silence that starts with looking inward, and then looking outward.

For the people who want to grow - and many have written to me - I highly recommend certain books. In spite of your belief, above all, start reading the Bible. Never mind what you get out of it, reading, you don’t know what you’re doing to your inner God-being, the one we call Nagual. This is an angel inside of you who needs to eat like you need to eat. Start reading your Bible. And seriously, I don’t care what religion you’re from, or non-religion, ask God to reveal Himself. It’s between Him and you, nobody else. And watch out, if you’re serious.

So, I recommend the Bible. And for those who can afford it, and really want to learn a little more about it, I recommend a concordance. It’s a pretty expensive book, and any pastor can tell you how to read it. After that, I recommend the book by Tom Brown, Jr., called The Tracker, and then, after that, the one by Tom Brown, Jr., again, called Awaken Spirits. Read those two books in the order given: The Tracker first; don’t cheat; then Awaken Spirits. You will learn how to go into the Sacred Silence. You will learn about duality of spirit, and you will, thus, learn what the first book shows. By doing all of this, you can do the impossible. The gentleman who taught Mr. Tom Brown, Jr. was also one of my many, many teachers. Buy those books, they’re $12.98 each; don’t cheat.

Gail Cortright: I think we have those books, actually.

Rick Martin: I think we do.

Red Elk: Use those books; reread them. You will connect. I call them pot-rated books, because you’re sitting on the pot [toilet], while other people are pounding to get in. And you say: “I’m not done with that particular chapter. Go outside!”

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: I just love them. My wife, who is a real hard-core-type Christian, or has been, she just fell in love with them. And they sure open your eyes.

Rick Martin: Thank you for recommending them.

Red Elk: Aho! Highly, highly - but please, don’t deny that Word of God - I don’t care if you are Buddhist, atheist, don’t deny it. You’re making one of the biggest mistakes of your life. IT’S JUST BETWEEN YOU AND GOD. I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT A RELIGION. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONALISM. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK THAT LEADS YOU TO THE ONLY WAY OF LIFE, OTHER THAN DARKNESS - AND THAT IS LOVE.

I’ll let ’er close at that.

Gail Cortright: That’s a good word to close it on.

Rick Martin: Thank you, very much.

Gail Cortright: That’s perfect.

Red Elk: Well, I don’t think you’ll be able to get all that in.

Rick Martin: We will, you’ll be surprised.

Red Elk: Half-spaced, tiny little letters?

Rick Martin: (Laughter) We’ll make room.

Red Elk: I sound like a preacher, I can’t help it. That’s the way I’ve been taught, and I learned through it. And I found it all true. And we’re taught to test everything. What you read, what you hear, what you see, test it and see if it’s morally correct, and not against the law. And if it’s needed, then do it.

You can fly. All you’ve got to do is get into a child-like mind. Be a 3-year-old again, pretend. And when you forget you’re trying to fly, but you’re having such a ball pretending, and you start yelling: “Weee, I can fly. I can fly” to “Weee, I AM flying! I AM flying!” Not a future event, but a NOW event. You WILL levitate. All these things are possible. Get rid of all those cant's. That’s just positive trash.

Well, I guess we’ll have to call it quits.

Rick Martin: I’m full.

Red Elk: I’m full.

Rick Martin: It’s been an honor.

Red Elk: No, the honor goes to Him, certainly not to me.

Gail Cortright: There you go.

Rick Martin: We’ll thank you for all of our readers. We know that our readers will be very appreciative.

Red Elk: We’ll see; there’s no mistakes. We know we can’t win ’em all. But, hopefully, we’ll shake some minds. Whether they want to go back to sleep, that’s their business.

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