This is something that would be of great importance to the world and the scientific community, but more importantly it is of great importance to our public officials who, we know, have not been briefed adequately on this subject.

GC: These objects [UFOs] kept coming over flying in the same kind of formation that we fly in our fighters while we were flying in Germany. We were flying F-86’s. They would come over and do the same maneuvers that we made except every once in a while one of them would go zip, and make a maneuver that you can’t do in a conventional fighter.

What started it was that the weatherman was tracking a weather balloon and he saw these objects with his binoculars. That started people getting out and looking at them and we decided to put some airplanes out and see what they were. But we couldn’t get to them. They were higher and faster. So we couldn’t tell whether they were large and far away or smaller and closer in. It was difficult to gauge exactly what their size was.

JF: Were they in formation?

GC: They were definitely in formation.

JF: What year was this?

GC: In 1951.

JF: Do you think the Russians had that kind of technology back then [that could do this]?

GC: No.

JF: You definitely determined that they were objects that were under intelligent control?

GC: Well, yes. They weren’t just random. They were flying fighter formations very definitely under control.

JF: Can you describe what they looked like?

GC: They were just typical saucer shaped, double saucer shaped, and metallic looking. I think they were definitely piloted vehicles. Each one of them had a pilot in it. I think they were very definitely in communication with one another because they would make a turn such that they had to be in communication to be coordinated.

One would zip off to the side, do a lateral maneuver off to the side…

Later at Edwards Air Force Base I was having some of the cameramen film precision landings and we were right on the edge of a dry lake. A saucer flew right over them, put down three landing gears, and landed out on the dry lakebed. They went out there with their cameras … towards the UFO. It lifted off, put the gear back in the well, and flew off at a very high rate of speed and disappeared.

So while I was going through all of the regulation books and finding out the number to call in Washington to report this, I had the cameraman go over and develop the film. By the time they got back with the developed film I had higher and higher and higher level officers talking to me. Finally, a Colonel told me that when the film arrived on my desk to put it in a courier file. There would be a courier there at my office and they would arrange for him to fly in our base airplane back to Washington with these films. [The Colonel said] to not run prints, etc., etc., etc. So we stuck them in the courier packets.

JF: Did you watch the film?

GC: We didn’t have a chance to run it. I had a chance to hold it up to the window to look at it. It was certainly good film.

JF: Were there close-up shots?

GC: Good close-up shots. Nothing like I had ever seen.

JF: Was the vehicle in the close-ups like the vehicles you had seen?

GC: About the same shape. Double inverted saucer shape. It didn’t have wings on it or anything. It was pretty much the same shape [as the ones we saw in Germany].

Well, at the time this happened I was involved in research and development and doing very classified projects at the task center. I knew that we didn’t have any vehicles [like that] at that time. I am 99.9% sure that the Russians didn’t have any of that type either. At that point in time there was no doubt in my mind that it was made someplace other than here on Earth.

But you send it [the evidence] on just like you are told to do and you do what they tell you to do. At the time I was working on a little program that nobody knew about and we weren’t allowed to discuss it with our family or anybody. That was the U-2 program. It [this event] was in the same category [of secrecy] really.

I don’t know why [it is kept so secret]. In my opinion, I think they were worried it would panic the public if they knew that someone had vehicles that had this kind of performance way back right after WWII. So they started telling lies about it. Then I think they had to cover it with another lie, tell another lie to cover their first lie and now they don’t know how to get out of it. Now it is going to be so embarrassing to admit that all of these administrations have told a lot of untruths. It will be embarrassing to get out of it.

JF: Do you think they want to get it out?

GC: I think that basically each and every President would probably like to get out of it, come clean on the deal and not have to continue to tell untruths. Eventually something is going to happen that will make all of them have egg all over their faces and they are going to have to admit that they haven’t been truthful at all.

JF: Who has kept this secret?

GC: Well, somebody has kept it pretty secret for quite a while, haven’t they?

[When asked about meeting with the United Nations Secretary General about UFOs in the 1970s, Gordon Cooper says:] Kurt Waldheim was really interested in the subject and he thought that it would be a good idea to form a committee and to do the investigation at that level [of the UN] but nothing ever got done. It was typical of the U.N. They talked a good game but they never get around to doing anything about it.

By NASA’s own figures there are some 400,000 other planets out there that could be habitable. I just can’t believe that God would inhabit this one planet and then leave all of those others bare. In my personal opinion, I just feel that we are out here in the hinterland of all of the galaxies. We are way out in the sticks. All of these other galaxies are closer to one another. I think they probably have a lot of travel to and from one another. Once in a while we will get a few travelers or stragglers or come through from distant other galaxies.

I wrote a letter [to the UN] suggesting that we form a group at the U.N. level and start gathering information around the world and let it be handled and coordinated at that level. There were a lot of countries that had information. There are a lot of countries like Russia is now. The government of Russia right now works directly with the civilian UFO groups. You have differences from country to country to country. But we should have all of this information come together and be correlated in one place.

Just think about what we could do from a technical point of view: some of them may be remotely operated. They may be radio-controlled so to speak like what we call unmanned or unpiloted vehicles. I think that some of them undoubtedly have crews in them and in my opinion I think those people are probably very similar to us.

I think definitely there was something other than a weather balloon that crashed at Roswell.

JF: Do you think the truth was lost?

GC: I think the truth has been very submerged in all of the lies that have been told.

JF: Do you think they would cover up one of those saucers that you saw?

GC: Very likely. I would like to think that they reverse-engineered it, did something of benefit with it. That would be the logical thing to do.

JF: Did you know where that footage went of the flying saucer that landed on the tarmac?

GC: It went to Washington; that is all I know.

JF: Did you ever keep in touch with anybody about it, or discuss it?

GC: How would I keep in touch with anybody? There is no way in the military or within the government of keeping track of something that is classified unless you are directly involved in it and I was not. I had no way of knowing what happened.

JF: Was it included in part of the Project Blue Book investigation?

GC: No, it was not. And that was one of the complaints that I had about Project Blue Book. In my opinion, Project Blue Book was totally a whitewash.

[Other high level witnesses such as Colonel Brown and Dr. Wood have concluded the same: Blue Book was a PR whitewash while the real research went on elsewhere. SG]

There were a number of other things that I had occasion to know about that were not included in the Blue Book either.

In my opinion, I think they are coming from some other planet. There is no doubt in my mind. I think they are for real and I think that eventually we will find out that there is regular travel to this Earth from other planets.

Who was flying these vehicles we saw? I think there were extraterrestrial pilots flying them, no doubt about it.

[When asked about ‘black’ or invisible projects, Gordon Cooper says:] That was one reason that we did the U-2 Program the way we did it. We had put no classifications on that program because when you classify a program then a Congressman or a Senator thinks they can go out and tell all of the details. They are privileged to be able to do that. They trample all over security and tell the details to whomever they want to. We didn’t classify it at all until Gary Powers was shot down. The world really didn’t know about the U-2. At least in the United States we didn’t know about them.

[Cooper and others have told me of projects beyond classification and Colonel Corso spoke of the E. T. projects as being conveyed ‘brain to brain’. Extremely tightly held unacknowledged projects such as those dealing with UFOs really are beyond top-secret and access is blocked to Congress and the public. SG]

I think we have a lot of potential learning from them [the extraterrestrials]. If we can just set up the schedule of how to go about doing it. They can come land in my backyard anytime. If they want to come land in my backyard I would welcome them.

I think they are just the same as we are just a little higher, a little better, and a little faster.

I have a good friend who is a commercial airline pilot and he has had about three different occasions where a UFO has pulled up right alongside his wing and stayed in formation with him. He is in a major airline. The airline has a policy that their crews aren’t allowed to talk about UFOs.

SL: I graduated from the George School, which is a private co-educational prep school in Philadelphia, in 1958 and went into the military. After going through advanced infantry training, I was transferred to the Pentagon where I worked for the Radio Frequency Engineering Office. I finished there and then joined the White House Army Signaling Agency in May of 1959. I served under Eisenhower from May of 1959 until he got out of office and then I served under Kennedy until I left the service in August of 1961.

My job was to learn to deal with code [and code breaking]. In the process of dealing with that I learned a lot about Project Bluebook [which deals with UFOs]. Bluebook was discussed quite openly in the office. Sections of Bluebook were opened for discussion. There were other matters as well that were brought to our attention: One afternoon when we were just about ready to finish up training, Colonel Holomon brought out a piece of what appeared to be metallic debris; it looked like a yardstick. It had inscriptions on it. And the inscriptions were pointed out by Colonel Holomon to each one of us who were in that class (I think that there were six or seven of us at that time). We were told that this object came from matters connected to Operation Bluebook.

What they were trying to say was, "Look, we have this physical evidence to go along with what you have seen in Bluebook; we have now been able to get our hands on and show you this material" and that is what he did. He went on to further explain that this was the material that had come from a New Mexico crash in 1947 of an extraterrestrial craft and that was discussed at length. If I am not mistaken, we spent perhaps another hour or so discussing this. The next day it was discussed again. He did not describe what the bodies looked like, although they did discuss the fact that there were bodies, extraterrestrial bodies. There were either three or five bodies… three or five stands out in my mind as the number that was taken. One was partially alive at the time that this happened and I do not know what may have happened to him after that.

The Air Force at that time was very, very much concerned with Bluebook and there were strict regulations involving anything that had to do with the reporting of UFOs or talking about a UFO. If you wanted to ruin your career, it was explained to us, the thing that would do this the fastest was to talk about UFO’s. I was enlisted then and was the lowest thing down on the totem pole. We were being groomed for Top Secret and above, and that we certainly would not be cleared for any kind of confidential material should this information be released.

We saw an awful lot. We saw a lot of pictures of UFOs. Some pictures that I saw I think were maybe a little bit better than the ones you see today. These pictures of UFOs were taken by Air Force pilots.

SG: So you saw official pictures the military took of UFO’s?

SL: Oh, indeed they did. Yes. Not only did the Air Force take these pictures but also some were taken by civilian pilots -- and some were taken by Marine Air Corps pilots and some were foreign. It was made quite clear that there were a number of others that were in place in other agencies that were being used at that time that were not being put in the Bluebook. I inferred from that that perhaps those pictures were better than the pictures that they were showing us. I think that Colonel Holomon gave that impression to everybody in the class.

This piece of an extraterrestrial craft was a grayish foil-like material maybe eight to ten inches long or so. It seemed giant-like because it was the first time that I had ever seen anything like this before and all eyes were just peeled on that particular thing. And when he told us what it was it was frightening. It was eerie. You could have heard a pin drop in the room when it was first mentioned.

SG: And what did he tell you it was?

The inscriptions looked like hieroglyphics. It is hard to describe hieroglyphics but if you have ever seen any ancient Egyptian writings you will know that the hieroglyphics were animated in some form and these appeared to be animated. If I knew the code that was supposed to be used to find out how this language was to be interpreted then we could understand it. The writing was very expressive, you could tell it was expressive.

He had a stainless steel box with a lock on it almost like a carpenter’s box but maybe bigger. And that is where he got this from and that is where he put it back. And I gathered that was not the only thing that was in that box. But that is the only thing that he did show. This occurred in the Radio Frequency Engineering Office.

At the Pentagon, you have to remember, we had one instructor, a Lieutenant Colonel. And his job was to not only teach us but to make us believers as well and that is when he produced that piece of material from what appeared to be a stainless steel box. It was maybe a kind of a dusty gray like-foil and it looked like it may have been burned on a grill. He indicated that that was not the only piece of information that he had and the only object that he had. He had several others. Maybe the whole box was filled. I don’t know, but that is the only piece that he took out to show us. And the reason he did this was to make sure that we understood we were dealing with something that was totally out of context from what we had been dealing with earlier but that we might be dealing with in the future. I think he intended for us to know that our futures were going to be dealing with this subject matter more and more.

He did describe the inscriptions as being symbols of instruction and that is as far as he would go but he did infer that the instructions, whatever they might have been, were something that was important enough for the military to keep working on a constant basis. He made it quite clear that this was something that was of grave importance. We were in the basement of the Pentagon and in those days. That was in 1959; there was a tremendous amount of security there in that area of the Pentagon. And anybody who has worked there knows what I am talking about. You could almost carry on an entire war in the basement and no one else would know what was going on on the floors above. That is how secure it was.

I was working on top-secret clearance. I had gotten a secret clearance and by the time I finished the school I had been given a top-secret one but I was given one step higher than that because at that time they didn’t have a clearance specifically dealing with this (UFO) problem. If you dealt with a problem you got a Q Clearance, which was a nuclear clearance. Maybe later on they decided that they were going to change that but I remembered that that was the big question, "How are we going to give security clearances to these people who have been through this course?"

There were probably 1,500 reported cases at that time that were eligible to be put in Bluebook. The findings that were put in there were highly scientific. This information was information that would never get out to anyone else but it was designed for the use of particular military personnel. So what was there was extremely exact and specific. These cases were as bona fide as they possibly could be. They were talking about people who had sterling reputations either in the military or in the civilian capacity of some form or another but they were not taking any loose cannons. This was information they thought was extremely accurate.

There were stories about radar lock on. Several of those stories came out of Ohio at Wright Patterson Air Force Base but several others came from California, Texas, and Washington from what I can recall. I would estimate that there probably were between two and three hundred cases of radar lock on [with UFOs]. That is why those cases were in there because they were authentic.

I was told that the material they showed us came from the New Mexico site but there were other sites and there were other crashes of ET craft. They did not say where. They were not pinpointed but it was made quite clear that that was not the only site that they had gathered information from and also material.

The Wright Patterson Air Force Base was brought up on a number of occasions. Apparently there were more lock-ons at Wright Patterson than at any other Air Force Base. Edwards Air Force Base was mentioned as an experimental station. When I say mentioned, in that context I mean Edwards was involved in testing whatever ET materials they found. It was said that that was what was being done. Radar lock-ons had come from Edwards Air Force Base [too].

[See the testimony of Chuck Sorrells regarding the 1965 multiple UFO radar lock-on at Edwards. SG]

I should note that I was there in the Pentagon at the same time that Colonel Philip Corso was there.

I did not have any more contact with the subject matter of UFO’s until after I came in contact with the President [Eisenhower]. I had heard that he did an awful lot of doodling on paper, on notebook paper, particularly at conferences that he wasn’t particularly happy with. He would take to doodling and one of the things that he did was doodle various forms of UFOs.

I never saw Kennedy do this but President Eisenhower did it, and he did it in my presence as well as several other people who were attached to the White House Army Signaling Agency where I was assigned. When I first came to work for the President I didn’t meet him until probably a month and a half after I had been on board. At that time it was a very formal meeting. Right after that I got an opportunity to travel a little bit with the President. We did some traveling towards Florida. And I had an opportunity to see him under fire, as it were, and how he handled certain people that he didn’t like and when he did that he would doodle. He was probably one of the world’s best doodlers and everybody would kid him about it. I wouldn’t, but I wasn’t in a position to do so but the higher officers would kind of say little things every now and then. He would just smile and keep on doodling.

Well, on some of those occasions he had just been given messages or had been given information pertaining to sightings or information about UFO’s and I know that for a fact because I was in the COM Center and I saw that information. When he would get these reports it would excite him. He was just a kid. He would get so excited and give orders like D-day was happening all over again. He was very, very interested in the shapes and sizes of the UFOs and what made them go.

The White House itself has a huge COM Center in the basement. It is run by the Air Force but the Army is there. Every place where the President would go including Camp David has a COM Center that deals specifically with presidential traffic. The information would be conveyed usually by a Warrant Officer.

Our Chief Warrant Officer had been in the Army for probably 30 years or more. When he would get that kind of information [about UFOs] he sometimes would close himself off and he would be alone for a while and then he would call in whomever he needed to call in. But dealing specifically with UFOs, I can only remember on one or two occasions where that information came directly from the COM Center to him. Most of the time it seemed to come indirectly to the President.

Most of that material when it is passed through, it is "for eyes only," and that means that if you have a direct interest in it then you will see it. If you don’t then you won’t. You knew that there were sightings of UFOs. You knew that there were new findings. If you had been around the President long enough you could just judge by his expressions what he was reading and what interested him. It was just something that you knew from being around him.

SG: He showed particular interest in this subject?

SL: Very, very much interest. In fact, I would say that this subject was probably among his highest of interests at that time. Yes indeed.

Reports about these UFOs were not terribly rare. It happened quite frequently. I wouldn’t dare say how many times but it happened frequently.

What happened was not one particular agency could handle dealing with the entire subject matter, dealing with the engineering portion, to sighting information, to reporting it into Bluebook. The whole process of dealing with the UFO phenomenon could not be handled anymore by one agency and so in order to keep it alive it was given to various parts of the government to work on. And I guess that they thought that they could also keep the intelligence factor as secret as possible by giving agencies a little bit here and a little bit there. And that type of compartmentalization oftentimes is done with matters like this.

But what happened was that Eisenhower got sold out. Without him knowing it he lost control of what was going on with the entire UFO situation. In his last address to the nation I think he was telling us that the Military Industrial Complex would stick you in the back if you were not totally vigilant. And I think that he felt like he had not been vigilant. I think he felt like he trusted too many people. And Eisenhower was a trusting man. He was a good man. And I think that he realized that all of a sudden this matter is going into the control of corporations that could very well act to the detriment of this country.

This frustration, from what I can remember, went on for months. He realized that he was losing control of the UFO subject. He realized that the phenomenon or whatever it was that we were faced with was not going to be in the best hands. As far as I can remember, that was the expression that was used, "It is not going to be in the best hands". That was a real concern. And so it has turned out to be.

It had been discussed with me on numerous occasions what could happen to me militarily if I discussed this. I would say that the government has done as good a job enforcing secrecy through the installation of abject fear as they have done with anything within the memory of modern man. I really believe they have done a job.

One older officer discussed with me what possibly could happen if there was a revelation. He was talking about being erased and I said, "Man, what do you mean erased?" And he said, "Yes, you will be erased-disappear." And I said, "How do you know all this?" And he said, "I know. Those threats have been made and carried out. Those threats started way back in 1947. The Army Air Force was given absolute control over how to handle this. This being the biggest security situation that this country has ever dealt with and there have been some erasures."

I know he was very convincing when he said this and he was in a position to know. He was much older than I and he had been involved with the CIA. He knew what he was talking about. He wasn’t kidding. So I guess fear has done it. I don’t care what kind of a person you are. I don’t care how strong or courageous you are. It would be a very fearful situation because from what Matt [this older officer] said, "They will go after not only you. They will go after your family." Those were his words. And so I can only say that the reason that they have managed to keep it under wraps for so long is through fear. They are very selective about how they pull someone out to make an example of. And I know that that has been done.

In this country during the early 1950s, numerous bases were built that would allow the President and Congress and VIPs to go in case of attack. That is to maintain the government to function and so forth. Mt. Weather, Virginia was one of those. Ft. Ritchie, Maryland was another. Camp David, Maryland was another. There was another one in West Virginia at that time which we only knew as Concrete. That was the code name. Mt. Weather, for example, is underground. It is designed specifically to be impenetrable, as far as we knew, from atomic weaponry. When I first went on tour there, I was told about special equipment that they had. We had to go through all of these places where the President would go just to familiarize ourselves on what to do and how to do it. And there was equipment up there to deal specifically with the UFO problem. There was a standard operating instruction on what to do. UFOs had been sighted around Mt. Weather not only on one or two occasions but on numerous occasions from what I understand. They also have been sighted in West Virginia at the place that I referred to as Concrete.

We have gotten so much momentum with the secrecy that has shrouded this subject matter that we are liable to wind up in a big, fat crash. And granted I am not privy to the things that I would like to be privy to but as I see it when you propagate a lie and propagate a fear of the truth, you put yourself in a very vulnerable position.

They have been keeping this secret for a long time so evidently they have known how to do it. But at some point in time, because of the interest I think that the media has taken, there will be people coming out speaking that have never thought about speaking before, particularly about Nellis and what has been going on there. And you can’t create anything positive through fear. Fear only degenerates the human soul and the human psyche, the human mind if you will.

I think secrecy has been enforced because what would be revealed would totally destroy an economy that was designed by certain capitalists in this country a long, long time ago to maintain them and their corporations from here to eternity. I think oil has a special interest in seeing that it maintains its position where it is, regardless of what kind of pollution or disastrous side effects may have occurred and continue to occur.

I think that what we are dealing with is certain electromagnetic devices that are powered by sources that we just don’t quite understand as of yet - well, we are certainly not advertising them anyway. But these devices would generate free power. And free power would be something that corporations panic about. I think this government panics about it. Looking at it from a governmental point of view: How are you going to tax free power? And from everyone that I have talked to who knows something about this subject matter, they do believe that the sources of energy that keep these vehicles in propulsion are sources of energy that are just as free as free could be. They don’t cause any harm to the environment. They don’t cause any footprints to be left anywhere…

Given the fact that we are having a real question about how to deal with the high price of Arab oil right now, Bush as you know, is trying to insist that we go into some of the arctic regions and take more oil out. I for one don’t see that as an answer. With the global warming situation being what it is, that would just be another nail in our coffin. But at some point in time we are going to have to share this information that would allow us to have free energy. The government knows about this. It is foolish for them to try to make the rest of us look like imbeciles and say that this can’t happen. Well, it can happen.

The question was, "Did I hear that we had ever picked up signals which could not be identified or, if they could be identified, were they coming in from strange craft that perhaps had put us under surveillance?" Yes I did hear that. I heard that from at least five or six reports that wound up in Bluebook. In fact, several of the reports had come in through pilots’ radios. So whatever intelligence we were dealing with at that time knew how to deal with us. They knew how to communicate with us and we knew they were of extraterrestrial origin.

MM: I enlisted in the United States Navy in August of 1978, and was assigned to the USS America, where unfortunately I sustained some injuries on the flight deck while performing my duties. I then went to CINC-ANT Fleet, Atlantic Command Support Facility in Norfolk, Virginia on Hampton Boulevard. I was directly assigned to AOSF, Division 22; we were a group of about eleven people then. We were directly responsible for briefing Admiral Trane who was the Commander in Chief, Atlantic Command. We briefed him on current military operations around the world, what the Soviets were doing that day, what they had done the night before, etc.

AOSF is just an acronym for Atlantic Operational Support Facility and CINC-ANT Fleet is another acronym for Commander in Chief-Atlantic Fleet, which Admiral Trane was at the time. Everyone on the eastern seaboard answered to this man.

After a six month wait I got a top-secret, Special Compartmented Intelligence (SCI) clearance, with a zebra stripe identification badge, which permitted access to all facilities on the base at all times.

I had unrestricted access to any facility at any time as well as the Command Center to which it was specifically assigned. My station was up on the mezzanine, or the third deck as we called it, over the Command Center. My job was to make sure that any incoming and outgoing audio/video information that came into the Command Center was recorded and duly logged for reference in case they needed it later.

I recorded all of the video and audio- everything that is going on- even when they called a Condition Zebra alert. This was generally a training exercise that they would announce beforehand by saying, "This is a drill. This is a drill. Set Condition Zebra." and unauthorized personnel would then be escorted out of the Command Center if they didn’t already know that they had to leave.

Condition Zebra is the highest level of alert that the Navy has – or had at that time – for generally dealing with global nuclear threats, in particular the Soviets. Soviet Bearcats were routinely patrolling up and down the eastern seaboard watching what we were doing. And we would set a Condition Zebra if we had the need to put planes in the air to escort the bearcats out of the area if they were a little too close to our airspace or if they had ships in the area that were suspicious acting, for instance. Or we would have a drill, for instance, when they would get out the MAD books to wage nuclear war. The Watch Officer and the Junior Watch Officer, the JOD, had keys to a safe and they would get these books out called the MAD books – Mutual Assured Destruction – and they would have the codes that were necessary to transmit to the submarines if necessary, to launch a nuclear strike. And not many people were allowed in the Command Center when that was going on because they actually did use the codes and so forth. I am sure the Soviets and any others person who were enemies of the United States would like to get their hands on that information.

The Zebra Classification - well, without that you were not allowed authorized access to these facilities during this drill and the Zebra Drill was specifically for the highest level of top-secret information that was being exchanged between the Command Center and ships and/or submarines at sea.

Well, about this incident: The day started out pretty routine. I would say this was around the first week or two in May [1981] to the best of my knowledge. So everything was going along pretty routinely when they dimmed the lights (they did this first in the Command Center when they set a Condition Zebra alert). Most of the time when they set these drills they would say, "This is a drill. This is a drill. Set Condition Zebra." But they turned the lights down this time and they didn’t say, "This is a drill." And the Watch Officer and the Junior Watch Officer looked at each other and told some of their assistants to verify whether or not this was a drill as the event was taking place. And the early warning system- I believe it came in from an Air Force base in Greenland or Nova Scotia at that time- said that we had contact with an unidentified flying object that had entered our air space. And they said that this was not a drill and so it was treated with the utmost promptness and everyone started running around like mad once they realized that it wasn’t a drill. It took on a whole different air.

Within moments of that, the Watch Officer summoned Admiral Trane over to the Command Center because this was a little out of his area of authorization for lack of a better way to put it. It required Admiral Trane’s oversight. And within minutes Admiral Trane was rushed into the Command Center into his viewing booth that he had right under the Mezzanine there and the first thing that Admiral Trane wanted to know was how many contacts we had, where they were, which direction were they going, and were the Soviets responding. Because we knew that it wasn’t the Soviets that had entered our airspace. That was verified from the get go, from the start.

At that point, when Admiral Trane found out that it wasn’t the Soviets and that he wanted to know were the Soviets responding to this threat also, that was the moment that he gave authorization to put two planes up to go see what this thing was. And that was when the chasing up and down the eastern seaboard began. We launched planes from as far north as Greenland to NAS (Naval Air Station) Oceania. This object, we had it on radar- this event lasted almost an hour. You could hear the pilots live voice transmissions being piped into the Command Center. And they had visual confirmation of the object and made descriptions of the object. Pilots were able to close a couple of times and were able to see that the object was not an aircraft that we were familiar with- it was nothing that we had and nothing that the Soviets had. That was determined very quickly. This vehicle or whatever it was that they were chasing showed very erratic flight up and down the coast, quick flight.

It would actually be off the coast of Maine, for instance, and would leave the airspace in that area so quickly that we were having to have planes coming out of Dover Air Force base just to pick it up just in what seemed like moments. Well, I know for a fact that it would take an F-14 probably thirty minutes to traverse that much distance but this object, whatever it was, was just popping up. One minute it was here and the next minute bam, it was down several hundred miles down the coast, just playing tag.

It did go all the way down to a point off the coast of Florida around Mayport, the Naval Air station that we have down there at Cecil Field. And that was before it turned and took what would have been an easterly direction from our vantage point back up towards the Azores before we actually lost track of it.

During all this, we were using satellites called the KH-11 satellites that we use for information gathering. And this satellite did have a very high capability of taking really good photographs of things literally within a few feet of the ground from a vantage point out in outer space. And they were trying to get the KH-11 satellite to track this thing to get some photographs of it. The photographs that we did get back in the Command Center later on came from the first encounters that the planes had with it off of the northern North American coast. They did get close enough to get some photographs taken that were later brought over to the Command Center.

Well, from the photograph I remember the shape was more like a cylinder; it was quite flat and long. It had abrupt ends. The ends didn’t taper down like most aircraft. It just came to an abrupt end and it did appear to be reflecting sunlight and you could clearly tell that it was metallic. And the pilots were giving information such as it was not leaving behind a vapor trail, no discernable lights or markings on it, no cockpit windows or doors, nothing like that. It just seemed to be one solid thing whatever it was.

What was really bugging Admiral Trane, what was really driving him nuts, was this thing absolutely had complete control of the situation and could be anywhere that it wanted to be in a matter of seconds. One minute we were closing on it off the coast of Maine and the next minute it is in Norfolk heading south towards Florida. And it is all that we can do to get the early warning radar up and down the coast to watch for this thing as it just had it’s day with us.

Admiral Trane and his staff were quite concerned about it to say the least. They were quite concerned especially once they found out that it wasn’t the Russians and it wasn’t us and he wasn’t aware of anyone else who had the technology to build such a craft that could move about so easily and so quickly. I remember distinctly looking over the rail of the mezzanine and just watching complete chaos break out because of their inability to keep an eye on this thing, whatever it was.

The UFO was moving around so erratically and so quickly up and down the coast… They were trying to notify as many commands as they could up and down the coast to track this thing or get a plane up. Admiral Trane was scrambling and authorizing planes just left and right up and down the whole eastern seaboard to try and cut this thing off and to get some planes from the north and south to literally track it and to force it down. It was clear that they wanted to recover it, to force it down by whatever means possible.

The order was given by Admiral Trane to try and get this object forced down out of the sky if at all possible, by whatever means possible. After they found out and knew for certainty that it wasn’t the Russians, they didn’t care who it was as long as it wasn’t the Russians. They didn’t care who it was or where it was from. They wanted it and they wanted it bad.

The information coming in from the Command Center was being relayed to us from different radar sites that we have up and down the eastern coast that watch our airspace.

I would describe the officers as being scared. Yeah, they were scared to put it in a nutshell. Admiral Trane was usually a very calm man of very mild demeanor a really nice fellow. And you never really saw him lose control or raise his voice or get excited about anything. But this really got him upset to say the least. I would say that was the impression that I had from most of the officers there- they were just as much in the dark and scared as everybody else.

They would actually not track it down the coast. It would just appear hundreds of miles from the last sighting. And the pilots said that one moment it was there and the next moment it wasn’t. And I think that that was one of the things that really had Admiral Trane’s hackles up because he didn’t have any control of it or the situation.

This thing just had a mind of its own and was causing such an uproar up and down the eastern coast. Admiral Trane was ultimately responsible at that time and I am sure it was stressing him out quite a great deal. You could tell by his tone of voice. You could just tell by listening to him that he was very, very, very worried.

But on radar we were keeping track of it one minute and then we would absolutely lose it, and then we would pick it up. It would just appear as an unauthorized vehicle in military airspace.

And trust me, the military knows where every commercial flight is at all times. We knew where every plane we had was at all times. We knew where every commercial flight coming through our airspace was at all times. There just wasn’t anything going on that we didn’t know about it. All the planes that were scrambled were put up off of the shore facilities- the Navy has shore facilities, the Naval Air station for example, Oceania.

When you set a Condition Zebra, whether it is a drill or not people are not authorized to be there who do not have a Zebra Access Badge. It is a zebra striped area on your clearance badge. They have to leave the Command facility and we have Marines stationed inside and outside the building there that were under orders to shoot any unauthorized personnel that remained in the Command Center during one of these episodes. That was for the interest of national security.

For example, one time a Condition Zebra was called and the Marine comes in and wants to know what is going on. Is this a drill or so forth? They have got orders to start shooting people. And I know because I actually got the Junior OOD’s attention and said, "Hey, you guys need to tell this guy something. He is ready to start shooting people." They haven’t told him to stand down yet, which he did. And I remember wanting to just get the hell out of there because he came in there and he said, "You have got a minute or two. If I don’t find out something"– he was ready to come in there and start shooting people, destroying evidence.

When this event, as I refer to it, ended, the object that we had been chasing up and down the seaboard headed out over the Atlantic, over the Azores. I do remember them saying that it had pulled up at a 66 degree angle as it approached the Azores like this, and it just pulled up at a 66 degree angle without slowing down or anything and left the atmosphere and was gone into space. It just took off into space and was gone like that (snaps fingers). I mean it just absolutely left. You are talking about something that covered thousands of miles in a blink of an eye and it was just gone and it just left everyone sitting around scratching their heads. "Gee whiz, I wonder what that was."

It was comical in a way to see how the vast military might of the United States was put on its knees by something they had no idea what it was, where it came from, where it was going or anything. The only thing that they knew for sure was that it wasn’t the Soviets and they were very adamant about finding that out.

So we secured from Condition Zebra. They turned the lights up. Everyone was sitting around talking about it down on the command floor. I am up here by myself on the third deck. Admiral Trane is down here in his briefing area. They stayed for a few minutes before they left. I made a note of it in my logbook like you had to do. Then I really didn’t give it much more thought.

Later, these two guys came in, in suits. They weren’t in military uniform. They just came in, in suits and they had their little badges on but they didn’t have Zebra Striped badges. It was like a visitor badge. You could tell that they weren’t regular personnel. And I didn’t know them from Tom, Dick, or Harry. I had never seen these guys before. So we go downstairs to the first floor and there were several little conference rooms and they took me into one that they already set up and sat me down- and they had my logbook. They got that and took it down with me.

These two gentlemen began to question me about this event. They were being pretty rough about it to be honest with you. I remember literally putting my hands up and saying, "Wait a minute fellows. I’m on your side. Just a minute," because they were not really nice. They were very intimidating and made it quite clear to the point that nothing that was seen, heard, or witnessed, that transpired was to leave this building. "You are not to say a word about it to your co-workers. And off base, you just forget everything that you may have seen or heard concerning this. It didn’t happen." They were nasty, I guess is a good way to put it. I distinctly remember sitting back in my chair and I put my hands up and had to tell these guys, "Wait a minute, we are on the same side fellows. We don’t have a problem here."

You got the impression that they would do bodily harm to you otherwise, without really coming out and threatening you. You could just tell by their tone of voice when someone is saying, "Hey buddy, do what I say or else."

If this object had been hostile and wanted to drop weapons or shoot missiles at us, or whatever, it would have been very easy for them to do that. There was no question about that. We didn’t have anything at that time that could hold a candle to whatever this was. And it just had its own free run of our airspace and could do anything it wanted as far as traveling. We did not pose any threat to it whatsoever. That was painfully obvious, very much so. I do believe that Admiral Trane knew that too and was quite afraid. Just in a word I would say that that old boy was just plain scared.

SG: Whatever happened to the photographs of the UFO?

MM: That is a really good point that you raised about what happened to the 35 mm slides that we had. That is a really good point that you have there because we never got around to putting them up on the Telesign [sp] for Admiral Trane to actually view. They were just prepared. I can remember her [the technician dealing with the slides] telling me that these two men in suits came in, got up all the film developed and undeveloped and all the materials that they had with it and the slides. My logbook, I never did see that again. I know that we had a new logbook the next day- a brand spanking new one to start with. I don’t know what happened to it and nobody really knew what happened to it.

This technician also said, "These two guys came in here and read us the riot act and wanted this, that and the other and rounded up all their stuff and they weren’t real nice."

This event went down as just an unidentified flying object. They never did know what it was. I remember the Watch Officer and the JOD and the OOD, Officer of the Deck and Junior Officer of the Deck, I do remember them looking at each other talking. And I am just hanging my head over listening and they are talking to each other about how to put it in their logbook. They just said, "Put it down as an unidentified flying object contact and that is it."

I would say that the facilities that actually had this UFO on radar- there were five that I am sure of, and that is from Greenland all the way to Florida, and there may be some others that I don’t know. I know this because Admiral Trane was giving orders to NAS Oceania, "Let’s get some planes up from there, scramble some fighters." He did make a call for them to alert Dover Air Force Base, Patuxent River, Maryland, Cecil Field down in Florida…

When I got out, I received an official United States Navy document on the Navy letterhead. They gave me this document where for five years it was absolutely out of the question for me to leave the country under any circumstances whatsoever. And to leave the state of Virginia I had to contact the Roanoke office of the FBI and let them know if I just wanted to cross the state line to go into North Carolina. And that was for five years after I was discharged.

I also wanted to tell you about this member of my wife’s family. Jack Booth is his name. He is dead now but he was in the army and he was stationed at Roswell when the Roswell incident happened. He was my wife’s uncle- my wife’s mother’s brother. He was from Bluefield, West Virginia. He said that when he was just a kid in the army, he was at Roswell (NM) when this thing, whatever it was, crashed. And he was there pulling guard duty when they went out to the crash site. A truckload of them went to pick debris up and whatnot, and he was there when they actually did recover the bodies. He said, "I am telling you that they put little bitty guys in body bags and they weren’t humans. They were just little odd-looking fellows. They were nothing like a human." And they put them in body bags and one or two of them were still conscious or alive or something like that from the crash. There were actual survivors from this crash according to him.

They were picking up all the little pieces of the craft and he said that they actually put those guys down shoulder to shoulder on their hands and knees and went across the debris area picking up any little speck and scrap that they had. And they did it for days. He said that they were all threatened. He said they just came right out and said, "Look, if you say anything about this you might just turn up missing tomorrow."

He did say that. They didn’t make any bones about it and came right to the point about letting them know how much they wanted to keep this under wraps. He said, "I’m telling you – I was there."

Another man I met who knew about this subject was John Michael Murphy. He was a Marine Corp Corporal when I was in the Navy. He was stationed down there at the security barracks at CINC-ANT Fleet. He was part of the security detail there for the base. Murphy swore up and down that when he was still in the Marine Corp that he had actually guarded a spaceship, an extraterrestrial craft at a facility not far from Dover Air Force Base over in Delaware. Knowing Murphy as I did, I would believe him. I would believe Murphy. This would have been 1979 maybe, 1980.

CB: I’m a retired Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Air Force. I spent approximately 23 years in military service, and the latter seven years as a Senior Foreign Service Officer. In my career I spent about 15 years abroad. I started out as an enlisted man in the army in the West Virginia National Guard in the fall of 1939 [and] enlisted in the regular U.S. Army in the Signal Corp. in June of 1940 upon graduation from high school. I started training as a pilot in July of 1942 and was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant pilot in April of ‘43, then trained as a B-17 pilot aircraft Commander.

I went to Europe and arrived there in early November of 1943 and commenced combat as a B-17 pilot on 13, December, 1943. I flew my 29^th and last complete mission on the 11^th of April, 1944. Combat during this period was fairly severe. I just completed a survey of my 31 attempts at missions. And every time we went into the air, we had 235 casualties during those 31 missions. And I was very fortunate to complete it…

[I was] given a regular Air Force commission in early 1950. I left active duty in the fall of ‘65 and gave up my promotion to Colonel to accept employment as a Senior Foreign Services Officer. I then served seven years with the Agency for International Development. Six of those seven years were spent in Southeast Asia as a regional inspector for the Agency.

Basically, because of my counter-intelligence training and police work in an outfit called Air Force Office of Special Investigations, and because I was one of the few pilot trained investigators, I ended up doing a lot of investigations of aircraft, unusual aircraft accidents in which sabotage was suspected. And as a consequence became acquainted with some outstanding scientists and worked with the Air Technical Intelligence Center on a project called Grudge. At that time Office of Special Investigations was a worldwide investigative unit in the Air Force. We were given the responsibility of investigating what became known as unidentified flying objects. The title within the center was Project Grudge.

My job was in District D-05 of Wright Patterson Air Force Base where we received these worldwide reports. My job was to hand carry these reports over to the technical center and coordinate them with the project officer and answer any questions from an investigative viewpoint that I could assist on. I did that for approximately two years until the fall of 1951.

When I left Wright Patterson, Colonel Dunn was nice enough to give me a two-page letter of appreciation for my work with Project Grudge. And so far as I know, that is certainly one of the early formal recognition’s of work of an Air Force officer with Project Grudge. Now, the behind the scenes efforts that could have been going on simultaneously, fortunately, I was not privileged to but I did gain a feeling [of what was going on] in that many of the investigations were never answered. Normally, in the investigative field, you have an allegation of something or in the case of a UFO, a sighting let’s say. You carry it through to its conclusion and a result. And, in many of those instances, although it’s been a long time ago, I do know that there were no viable scientific results [reported]. And as a consequence, it developed my interest into the unidentified flying objects. Having spent several hundred hours in the air at that point, I followed it throughout the rest of my Air Force career. And in Strategic Air Command, I was a coordinating officer between the Deputy for Intelligence and Continental Army Command, which at that time, had responsibility for the missile defense of the United States.

When an object is moving a few thousand miles an hour, 12-14 minutes is a tremendous amount of time. I do remember speeds in excess of four to five thousand miles an hour, which were far in excess of any known aircraft that we had or any of the enemies. And being an Intelligence Officer one of my responsibilities was to have at least a rough idea of enemy capabilities and of their equipment.

Once, we flew into Nellis Air Force Base and another pilot and I were flying a Gooney Bird [C-47A Skytrain]. The sky was totally clear. And an object went across southwest to northeast and it transited the entire heaven, looking at it from my right, and it went out of sight on the left, in probably less than 15 seconds. It was moving at a speed that I couldn’t even begin to calculate. It was certainly no satellite. It was a controlled object in flight.

Some of the objects reported were tracked on radar. We had objects with four-way confirmation, ground visual, ground radar, airborne visual, airborne radar. And so far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t get any better than that!

You are not talking about someone’s imagination. And in this same timeframe, I heard so-called experts that the Air Force brought in and concoct stories from swamp gas to things like that. If it’s an aircraft with wings and then the laws of air dynamics apply, you don’t stop that thing and reverse it in a blink of an eye. And things like that did occur.

It is sort of strange but we send people to prison, we send people to their death because of eyewitness accounts of crimes. Our legal system is based on that to a large degree. Yet in my following of unusual aerial phenomena for the past 50 years, there seems to be some reason to discredit very viable and very reputable witnesses when they say something is unidentified. Well, you show me the individual that can identify everything in the heavens, and I will show you the Second Coming. Just, that simple! Because I don’t care how technically qualified you are -- for someone who is not there to voice an opinion and say oh, they saw such and such [is nonsense]. And my question is where did they get off, what was the stop that dropped them that qualified them to be experts? And I have a real problem with that.

I truly believe that these phenomena have been visiting this planet long before Project Grudge. I think there is adequate evidence of it. And the more we learn about the planet, the more we learn how little we truly know. And so the advance of science is something that has to keep evolving and we have to keep learning.

SG: Had you heard that Gun Camera footage of UFOs exists?

So President Truman gets involved. He sees all of the newspaper headlines and things. He says I want the man who is responsible for investigating these things. So, I think General John Sanford was an Air Force Assistant Chief of Staff Intelligence. Someone said, well, General Sanford is the Chief of Air Force Intelligence. So President Truman said, is he the guy that’s responsible for it? Well, they said, well yes, sir, overall, but… Truman said, is he handling the investigation? They said, no sir. That would be a man out at Wright Patterson AFB. Truman said, then that’s the man I want to brief me. So I do know that they flew into Washington. And I have every reason to believe that he briefed the President.

Later when I was in Britain, they were having a NATO exercise out in the North Sea area. And a couple of these little friendly balls of light got in the traffic pattern. Well, you can imagine what happened when they flew over the deck without landing, needless to say. And it threw the Navy into absolute consternation, as you can imagine. Well, the newspapers picked it up and they were in those days able to talk to the sailors and the airmen involved. And everyone is screaming for an investigation. They [the British] said, we have no investigative agency, blah, blah. Well, to make a long story short, some years later, the group Captain I worked for, who retired as an Air Vice Marshall… we were talking about this incident. And he said that the U.K. agency investigating UFO’s was one floor above me in the same building that I worked in for three and one-half years, and yet they did not admit its existence!

Well, this is just the tip of the iceberg, because some of the very unusual sightings were in the U.K.

And they were also talking about the little Foo Fighters that were over Germany. The Germans thought they were ours and we thought they were Germans. Now in the real world, balls of light do not have a place being guided by an Intelligence, being airborne, and causing consternation or playing games. There is no explanation other than they are from someplace else. So as far as I’m concerned, that is totally inexplicable, based on my judgment, my background, and my research.

I do know that there are agencies of our Government that can manipulate data. And you can create or recreate [whatever you want]. Craft, intelligently operated craft, have basically violated our laws of physics on this planet. And they have done that for a long time. The fact that the Government at this point -- I know we have been investigating since 1947 -- has not come up with an answer, to me indicates that there is something seriously wrong. Are we this incompetent in science? I don’t think so. Are we this incompetent in intelligence? I know we are not this incompetent in intelligence. Now, Project Blue Book, when it was closed by Dr. Condon’s group, I have every reason to believe that this was a total deliberate whitewash.

And my judgment is that there is an excellent chance that elements of the United States Government, for reasons unknown, have failed to advise the public of everything that has transpired.

UFO’s have been investigated for an extended period of time and the general public is not being made aware, fully aware – but are given only bits and pieces, programmed responses and things like that. So it is strange that you should be interviewing me prior to a national election [October 2000] because all you have to do is turn on a television set or listen to a radio and you hear and see the results of professional programming. We make blind men see and injured people walk and things like that. And we make people talk in a certain fashion and we give them intelligence. We can do a lot of things. We also hide a lot of things.

SG: Please tell us about your work with new energy research and how that has been suppressed.

The Federal Trade Commission later performed, literally, an illegal act. The statement, precise statement made to the attorney for a large dealer in Washington was, we don’t care whether it works or not. We just don’t want people buying these large American cars. I could not, when I got that report, I couldn’t imagine an officer of the United States Government -- this is 1979 - ‘80 -- saying that.

So I flew to Washington and went to the Congress and saw a Senator with the Science and Technology committee, and met the General Counsel. He questioned me at length. I had documentation. He then said they would act. When I pointed out the unfairness of the FTC aspect, they wrote a scathing letter to the Chairman of the Federal Trade Commission and sent me a copy of it. Within three weeks from that date, I lost my vehicle, about $100,000 worth of equipment, and a test vehicle was stolen. I had sponsored the U.S. Army race team on a little sprite racing car. They stole my unit off of that car after we had just won the race. The Captain of the Army race team was a Master Sergeant in the Army. We’d created a super car. And they stole that car from the U.S. Army in Van Nuys, California. So in three weeks, psychologically I was wiped out. This is no longer just talk. There’s a real world out there. And as one who had engaged in, been in and around a combat zone nine years of my life, to have to come back to this… It was quite traumatic.

We also had a project with the Maritime Administration, which was very successful. The conclusion was I could either add 20% in horsepower or 20% in fuel reduction, at the same time, simultaneous, with reducing emissions by 40%.

Near the end of the project, two months before, they said, our agreement is off. We are going to cancel the project. And I said, you can’t do this. [They said] we’ve done it. So I said, well, I’m going to finish the project, and I paid for the last two months of it. They said, we are not going to distribute the test results. Not only that, they said, we want all of your notes and all of your records. I’m saying, you really don’t have a right to those. And they say, yes we do. We paid for them. So, you don’t argue with the Government. So I made copies of everything I had, several copies, distributed them at various points, and sent them the originals of all of this. What I did not know at the time, I put in a call to the chief engineer who had set up the project and he was never available. The number two engineer was never available. So I finally called the comptroller. And he said, they are no longer with us. I said, what are you talking about? He said, they have eliminated the research division in the Maritime administration! So someone did not want this concept to be successful.

Then, later on a business trip, at two minutes after midnight, just into my birthday, a call comes into my hotel room when I’m just getting ready for bed. A voice says, please get out of your room immediately. I said, well if you tell me who you are and why, I’ll get out. Well, this is the desk clerk, and this poor man’s voice was breaking. He said, we just got a call there’s a bomb in your room. I said, I don’t think I’ll discuss this any further. So, I hung up and went out. By this time they are evacuating the whole motel. And so I said, I’ll check in to a Holiday Inn, which I did. I parked in a lighted area, right in front, this beat up old car I had with this device in it. I had several thousands of dollars of equipment in it and was taking it over to Purdue University to do some air tests.

Anyway, next morning quarter of seven, I look out, there’s a blank space where my car was. They had stolen my car. Police recovered it two or three weeks later, and found drilled holes in the gas tank and all of my test equipment gone. I had built a prototype carburetor. That was the last time I ever did that. I had actually built the thing. And everything was gone. And psychologically again, it sort of zapped me.

So we have a call that there was a bomb in my room. Somebody was following me. My phone was tapped. No question about this. And there was no logical reason for it. My unit was offered by this car dealer free with every new American car, truck, or van purchased. I made that stipulation it had to be American made.

My concept really just opened a door on a whole new field of science. This is not just my judgment but that of at least three or four Ph.D.’s, in physics, chemistry, and engineering.

There are combustion stimulating molecules and radicals generated in this process. It creates a thunderstorm in a bottle [and creates molecules which greatly increase fuel efficiency and decreases emissions.]

My concept can work as a retrofit item on older vehicles for people who want to keep them. But particularly on the polluting, major polluting vehicles, which are 18 wheelers, diesel automobiles, diesel buses in cities, tow boats, and ocean going vessels. I think the potential is there for power generating plants, based on research done in Europe, in England, and by Max Planc in Germany. I have every reason to believe it can be made to work on power generating plants. You would not even see white smoke coming out of one. I’m 90% certain this can be made to happen with a minimal investment.

So anyway, my concept adds oxygen to the air among other things. Everything it adds is an oxidant. It helps the planet. It even reduces CO²: when you use less fuel, CO² is reduced. So far as I know, it is probably the most fault free concept.

And in essence I was advised by an agency of the United States Government a few years ago, if I can do what I say I can do, it was a new field of science. Well, I’ve known it’s a new field of science since I can find no competitive concepts. It is a method of enriching the combustion air, or charged air on any heat cycle engine. I’ve tested it on propane and done extensive multi-million mile testing on diesel and gasoline. I’ve tested it on gasoline from 75 to 125 octane. I can run a vehicle that normally requires 92 octane on 75 octane without knock. And I have done so for a period of three months. In terms of the potential [of this technology], I’ve just scratched the surface.

Had at the beginning, 25 years ago, the oil companies gotten fully behind me, it might extend the useful life of existing oil on this planet, which is a finite resource.