CR: My name is Carol Rosin. I am an educator who became the first woman corporate manager of an Aerospace Company, Fairchild Industries. I am a Space and Missile Defense Consultant and have consulted to a number of companies, organizations, and government departments, even the intelligence community. I was a consultant to TRW working on the MX missile, so I was part of that strategy, which turned out to be a role model for how to sell space-based weapons to the public. The MX missile is yet another weapon system that we didn’t need.

I founded the Institute for Security and Cooperation in Outer Space, a Washington DC based think tank. I am an author and have testified before Congress and the President’s Commission on Space.

When I was a Corporate Manager of Fairchild Industries from 1974 through 1977, I met the late Dr. Wernher Von Braun. We first met in early 1974. At that time, Von Braun was dying of cancer but he assured me that he would live a few more years to tell me about the game that was being played- that game being the effort to weaponize space, to control the Earth from space and space itself. Von Braun had a history of working with weapons systems. He escaped from Germany to come to this country and became a Vice President of Fairchild Industries when I had met him. Von Braun’s purpose during the last years of his life, his dying years, was to educate the public and decision-makers about why space-based weapons are dumb, dangerous, destabilizing, too costly, unnecessary, unworkable, and an undesirable idea, and about the alternatives that are available.

As practically a deathbed speech, he educated me about those concepts and who the players were in this game. He gave me the responsibility, since he was dying, of continuing this effort to prevent the weaponization of outer space. When Wernher Von Braun was dying of cancer, he asked me to be his spokesperson, to appear on occasions when he was too ill to speak. I did this.

What was most interesting to me was a repetitive sentence that he said to me over and over again during the approximately four years that I had the opportunity to work with him. He said the strategy that was being used to educate the public and decision makers was to use scare tactics… That was how we identify an enemy.

The strategy that Wernher Von Braun taught me was that first the Russians are going to be considered to be the enemy. In fact, in 1974, they were the enemy, the identified enemy. We were told that they had "killer satellites". We were told that they were coming to get us and control us – that they were "Commies."

Then terrorists would be identified, and that was soon to follow. We heard a lot about terrorism. Then we were going to identify third-world country "crazies." We now call them Nations of Concern. But he said that would be the third enemy against whom we would build space-based weapons.

The next enemy was asteroids. Now, at this point he kind of chuckled the first time he said it. Asteroids- against asteroids we are going to build space-based weapons.

And the funniest one of all was what he called aliens, extraterrestrials. That would be the final scare. And over and over and over during the four years that I knew him and was giving speeches for him, he would bring up that last card. "And remember Carol, the last card is the alien card. We are going to have to build space-based weapons against aliens and all of it is a lie."

I think I was too naïve at that time to know the seriousness of the nature of the spin that was being put on the system. And now, the pieces are starting to fall into place. We are building a space-based weapons system on a premise that is a lie, a spin. Wernher Von Braun was trying to hint that to me back in the early 70’s and right up until the moment when he died in 1977.

What he told me was that there is an accelerated effort in place. He didn’t mention a timeline but he said that it was going to be speeding up faster than anybody could possibly imagine. That the effort to put weapons into space was not only based on a lie but would accelerate past the point of people even understanding it until it was already up there and too late.

When Von Braun was dying in front of me, the very first day that I met him, he had tubes draining out of his side. He was tapping on the desk telling me, "You will come to Fairchild." I was a schoolteacher. He said, "You will come to Fairchild and you will be responsible for keeping weapons out of space." The way he said it with this intenseness in his eyes, and added that very first day, the first time I met him, that space-based weapons were a dangerous, destabilizing, too costly, unnecessary, untestable, unworkable idea.

The last card that was being held was the extraterrestrial enemy card. The intensity with which he said that, made me realize that he knew something that he was too afraid to mention. He was too afraid to talk about it. He would not tell me the details. I am not sure that I would have absorbed them if he had told me the details or even believed him in 1974. But there was no question that that man knew and had a need to know, I found out later.

There is no doubt in my mind that Wernher Von Braun knew about the extraterrestrial issue. He explained to me the reasons why weapons were going to be put into space, the enemies against whom we were going to build these weapons, and that all of that was a lie. He mentioned that extraterrestrials were going to be identified as the final enemy against whom we were going to build space-based weapons back in 1974. The way he said it to me, there was no doubt in my mind that he knew something that he was too afraid to talk about.

Wernher Von Braun never spoke to me about any of the details that he knew related to extraterrestrials except that one day extraterrestrials were going to be identified as an enemy against whom we are going to build an enormous space-based weapons system. Wernher Von Braun actually told me that the spin was a lie – that the premise for space-based weaponry, the reasons that were going to be given, the enemies that we were going to identify – were all based on a lie.

I have been tracking the space-based weapons issue for about 26 years. I have debated Generals and Congressional Representatives. I have testified before the Congress and the Senate. I have met with people in over 100 countries. But I have not been able to identify who the people are who are making this space-based weapons system happen. I see the news. I see the administrative decisions being made. I know that they are all based on lies and greed.

But I have yet to be able to identify who the people are. That is after tracking this issue for 26 years. I know that there are big secrets being kept and I know that it is time the public and decision-makers pay attention to the people who are now going to be disclosing the truth. Then we need to make some definite changes and build a system in space that will benefit every single person, and all of the animals, and the environment of this planet. The technology is there. The solutions to Earth’s urgent and long-term potential problems are there. I have a feeling that once we start studying this extraterrestrial issue, all of the questions are going to be answered that I have had for 26 years.

But I have concluded that it is based on a few people making a lot of money and gaining power. It is about ego. It is not about our essence and who we really are on this planet and loving each other and being at peace and cooperating. It isn’t about using technology to solve problems and heal people in the planet. It isn’t about that. It is about a few people who really are playing an old, dangerous, costly game for their own pocketbooks and power struggle. That is all it is.

I believe that this entire space-based weapons game is initiated right here in the United States of America. What I hope is that with this information that is being disclosed, the new administration will to do what is right. That is to transform the war game into a space game so that we use the technologies that are available not just as spin-offs of war technology, but as direct technological applications to build a cooperative space system that will benefit the entire world and that will allow us to communicate with the extraterrestrial cultures that are obviously out there.

Who would benefit from these space-based weapons? They are the people who work in that arena, people in the military, in industries, in universities and labs, in the intelligence community. This is not just in the United States but it is worldwide. This is a worldwide cooperative system. Wars are cooperative. Just as peace will be when it breaks out. But right now there are a lot of people benefiting. This is what our economy has been based on in this country and spreading around the world- war. People suffer as a result. It is not fair. It never has been. People have screamed: "out of swords let us build plow shares, let’s have peace and hold hands around the world," but it hasn’t worked because too many people are benefiting. Not only are they benefiting financially, but from what my experience is there are people who actually believe that Armageddon should happen so we have to have these wars.

So it is going from the pocketbook, to the religious right: some people actually believe that we have to have wars for these religious reasons. There are people who just love war. I have met warriors who just love to go to war. Then there are the good people, the soldiers, who just take orders. They have to feed their children and send them to college so they want to keep their jobs. People in laboratories have told me that they don’t want to work on these technologies for war but if they don’t they won’t get a paycheck. Who is going to pay them? But what I see is that there are not only dual uses for these technologies but there are many uses for the same technologies.

We can build space hospitals, schools, hotels, laboratories, farms, industries. It may sound far out but if we don’t do that we are going to build battle stations and weapons pointed down all of our throats and into space. Apparently we have been doing some of that already. We have a choice now that can be made. We can all benefit – all of the people in the military industrial complex, in the intelligence community, in universities and labs, in the United States and all over the world – we can all benefit. We can just transform that industry so easily with just a decision based on our highest consciousness, our spirituality, and on the fact that we have no choice unless we all want to die. And we don’t. So we can all benefit financially, spiritually, socially, psychologically; it is technologically and politically feasible to transform this game now and everybody will benefit.

In 1977 I was at a meeting in Fairchild Industries in a conference room called the War Room. In that room were a lot of charts on the walls with enemies, identified enemies. There were other more obscure names, names like Saddam Hussein and Khadafi. But we were talking then about terrorists, the potential terrorists. No one had ever talked about this before but this was the next stage after the Russians against whom we were going to build these space-based weapons. I stood up in this meeting and I said, "Excuse me, why are we talking about these potential enemies against whom we are going to build space-based weapons if, in fact, we know that they are not the enemy at this time?"

Well, they continued the conversation about how they were going to antagonize these enemies and that at some point, there was going to be a war in the Gulf, a Gulf War. Now this is 1977, 1977! And they were talking about creating a war in the Gulf Region when there was 25 billion dollars in the space-based weapons program that had yet to be identified. It wasn’t called the Strategic Defense Initiative, at least. Not until 1983. This weapons system, then, had obviously been going on for some time and I didn’t know anything about. So I stood up in this meeting in 1977 and said, "I would like to know why we are talking about space-based weapons against these enemies. I would like to know more about this. Would someone please tell me what this is about?" Nobody answered. They just went on with this meeting as though I hadn’t said anything.

Suddenly I stood up in the room and said, "If nobody can tell me why you are planning a war in the Gulf when there is a certain amount of money in a budget so that you can create the next set of weapons systems that will be the beginning of the sell to the public about why we need space-based weapons, then consider this: my resignation. And you will not hear from me again!" And nobody said a word, because they were planning a war in the Gulf and it happened exactly as they planned it, on time.

SG: Who was at this meeting?

CR: The room was filled with people in the revolving door game. There were people that I had seen once in a military uniform and other times in a gray suit and an industry outfit. These people play a revolving door game. They work as consultants, industry people, and/or military and intelligence people. They work in the industries and they revolve themselves through these doors and right into government positions.

I stood up in this meeting and asked if I was hearing correctly. That when there was 25 billion dollars expended in the space-based weapons budget, that there was going to be a war in the Gulf, stimulated, created, so that they could then sell the next phase of weapons to the public and the decision-makers. This war was going to be created so that they could dump the old weapons and create a whole new set of weapons. So I had to resign from that position. I could no longer work in that industry.

In about 1990 I was sitting in my living room looking at the money that had been spent on space-based weapons research and development programs and I realized that it had come to that number, about 25 billion dollars, and I said to my husband, "I am now going to stop everything. I am now going to stop and sit and watch CNN television and I am going to wait for the war to happen." My husband said, "Well, you have finally gone over the edge. You have flipped out." Friends said, "You have really gone too far this time. There is not going to be a war in the Gulf, nobody is talking about a war in the Gulf."

I said, "There is going to be a war in the Gulf. I am going to sit here and wait for the war in the Gulf." And it happened right on schedule.

As part of the war game in the Gulf, we in the public were told that the United States was successful in shooting down Russian Scud Missiles. We were rationalizing new budgets based on that success. In fact, we found out later, after the budgets were approved for the next phase of weapons, that it was a lie. We did not have successful shoot-downs the way we were told. It was all a lie, just to get more money put in the budget to make more weapons.

I was one of the first people to go independently to Russia when I heard that they had "killer satellites."

When I went to Russia in the early 70’s, I found out that they didn’t have killer satellites, that it was a lie. In fact, the Russian leaders and people wanted peace. They wanted to cooperate with the United States and with the people of the world.

Another time I called Saddam Hussein when he was lighting his oil fields on fire. My husband was in the kitchen while I was making this phone call. I got a call back from his First Attaché with Saddam Hussein nearby and he asked, "Are you a reporter? Are you an agent? Why do you want to know?"

I said, "No. I am just a citizen who helped to start the movement to prevent the weaponization of outer space and I have found that a lot of stories that I have been told about weapons systems and the enemies are not true. I wanted to find out what would satisfy Saddam Hussein so he would stop making these oil fields catch fire and stop antagonizing people." He said, "Well, nobody has ever asked him that question, what he wants."

Back to Carol Rosin and the late Werner Von Braun

So when I hear that there is a possible threat of extraterrestrials – and I look at the history of thousands of years of possible ET visitations, and hear the disclosures of honest military-intelligence-industry people who have had experiences with UFO’s, with crashes and landings, with live and dead bodies of extraterrestrial beings – I know it is a lie. And if I am ever told that these are enemies against whom we have to build space-based weapons systems, based on my own personal experience of having worked in the military industrial complex on weapons systems and military strategy, I am going to know it is a lie. It is a lie.

Not only will I not believe it, but I am going to go out as loudly as I can and tell everyone to take a look. They [the ET’s] have not taken us away yet. We are still here after thousands of years of visits. If in fact they are still visiting us now and we have not been harmed then we have to look at this as something that is not a hostile occurrence.

It would be my hope and my intention to do everything I could to work with people who are working to communicate with and cooperate with these extraterrestrial beings. They are clearly not hostile. We are here. That is enough proof for me.

There is no limit to how people can choose to live on this planet. We have a chance to do that and I think that the window is closing rapidly. I don’t think that we have much time in which to make that decision. We are too close in too many ways to having some horrible disaster happen, having some sort of war take place, whether it is from high technology or an exotic weapons system.

We need leadership and it has to start with the United States President and that is who we all have to reach. If you are international, if you are around the world, if you are in the United States of America, whether you are from any party, any belief system or religion- the United States Commander in Chief, the President of the United States is the person that needs to be reached. We need to say that we want an ultimate, comprehensive, verifiable ban on all space-based weapons.

DB: When I was still at Autonetics prior to my NASA days with the Rockwell contract, I worked on a project called E Y E L A S S. Which became a billion watt laser system that we launch from space to shoot down aliens, which I’ve seen. So I worked on that…

I have a friend of mine named Norm Hayes, who just lives down the road here, who’s another rocket scientist friend of mine, that, is really hooked up in the laser area.

We developed these systems in ‘62, ‘63. It was really going strong in the early ‘60’s.

sg: Please explain how we are doing this.

I used to work in a Hughes facility in L.A. -- the one up here at Fullerton. I worked both facilities on a lot of hush-hush projects in those days.

sg: What were they dealing with?

db: Anti-gravity. As a matter of fact, I used to go out to the Hughes in Malibu. They had a big think tank up there. Big anti-gravity projects; I used to talk to them out there. I’d give them ideas, because they bought all my equipment.

But the American public will never, never hear about that.

I have buddies of mine that work in aerospace. We have our little get together every once in a while. And a friend of mine flew a disc. You’ve probable seen that disc, you know, from Area 51.

This flying disc has a little plutonium reactor in it, which creates electricity, which drives these anti-gravity plates. We also have the next level of propulsion, it is called virtual field, which are called hydrodynamic waves…

Not only was I talking to people about this anti-gravity propulsion issue, I’m also talking to Von Braun about it. I mean, I’m loud, you know me, I’m very loud. And I was no quieter then.

Then, the first night we are bringing the Saturn rocket out of the hanger I get a shake. I’m sitting there at the computer console, sound asleep, it’s 4:00 in the morning. One of my engineers comes up and shakes me. Mr. B, come on outside, there is something big happening. You said it was going to happen. I said, what, what what? They had just pulled the bird [Saturn] out and we are taking pictures. And a big disc came down in Seal Beach, California. I don’t have a picture of the ship hovering over it, but the disc came down and 400 employees saw it at 4:00 in the morning, early spring. It was 1966, about April of ‘66.

sg: How has all of this been kept secret?

It doesn’t matter who is in [the White House] because the industry is controlling this right now. Special interests -- that is what this whole country is running on right now.

JW: I enlisted in the Marine Corp under the delayed entry program in July of 1994 while still in high school. I enlisted, of course, in a delayed entry for a year or so. I went to boot camp on the 18^th of June. I graduated 8 September 1995. And from there my MRS was 0311, which was a grunt.

In late January of 1996, I was given new orders and was given a new MOS, Military Occupational Skill listing as a 7212 Stinger Avenger. So I was in training to be an air defense gunner on the FIM 92 Alpha stinger missile, the surface to air missile, and the avenger weapon. And I was in training from February to late May of 1996.

After graduating from that school, I was reassigned [to] a first duty station, second marine air wing, 28^th Marine Air Control Group, Second air defense battalion troop in North Carolina. I was assigned Battery B in June of 1996 and I went on several Ops, Operations – we call them Ops for short. Basically I was there and I was transferred over to the section for laser strike in February of 1997. When I got back, I was asked if I wanted to go and I said, "Sure" so I volunteered and I was sent to the section. We shipped out in March of that year to Peru.

We were sent there to provide perimeter security to this radar installation. Basically this radar station was tracking- supposedly -drug aircraft that were exiting in and out of Peruvian and Bolivian air space. One night Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Atkinson came to us and said, "Look, we have got a situation where we have an aircraft crash and it is possibly friendly and they need us to go and secure the crash site." This is late at night, about 11:00 or 12:00 at night.

I was on guard duty that night so I was already up and it was my shift. So we got up at about 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning and headed out with about five or six hummers. We drove to where we needed to go and from there we had to hump through the bush. So we got there at about 6:00 or 7:00, just when it started to get light.

Well, we found the area real easy because there was a huge gash in the land where something had crashed. It didn’t break anything- I don’t know if you have ever been to a crash site where you had trees and they had just broken like in half. Everything was burned and it was like something had almost cut warm butter with a knife. It was like something on fire or had some kind of energy like a laser had cut it. It was really strange. Anyway, I was in the front with Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Atkinson. And we were ten or twenty meters ahead of everyone else. We all had maps and radios and compasses so we wouldn’t get lost.

We were the first ones to see this thing. It had gone up the hill and then off in the side of the ravine and ridge. This is about a 200-foot ridge, at least -Solid rock. It was buried in the side of a cliff. Anyway, we didn’t go straight up, we went to the left and walked up to the top of the ridge and that is when we saw the craft.

This was a huge ship. And when I first saw it I was scared. It scared the heck out of me. I didn’t know what to do. It was really confusing. We all climbed down and it was buried at about a 45-degree angle in the side of the cliff there at the ridge. This was a steep cliff. It was straight up and down. And it was dripping a syrup-like liquid. It was everywhere. And it was greenish-purple and it kind of fluctuated. You would look at it one time and then you would look at it again and it was almost like it was alive and changing but every time that you looked at it you saw a different shade of greenish-purple.

There was one light on the ship that slowly went around. And the machine, I could hear it because it was still functioning and it had like a hum to it. It was like a bass, like say if you unplugged an amp from a guitar, that kind of deep sound and it kind of fluctuated and then finally it just cut off and everything just seemed to stop.

When I was looking at the craft, it was buried so I could see the back of it and there were these large things that looked liked vents, sort of like a fish gill on the back. I couldn’t see around the other side and I guess that it was the same way on the other side. Again, this liquid that had come out of the ship got on my cammies and it discolored them and ate them almost like acid. It ate some of the hair off my arms- I didn’t know that until later on.

I was down there with the ship. There were three holes in it. I assumed that they were hatches but there was no way to tell. They were not flush with the main body of the craft. They were, I don’t know, a few inches below. I knew that there was one on top because you could slightly see it. I don’t know about the other side. There was another hatch the same width and diameter of the top hatch and it was kind of crooked to the side and it was half open. I didn’t see any lights or anything coming out of it but I felt this… presence.

It is real strange. I think the creatures calmed me. It was weird and I think they were trying to communicate with me, like, I guess, telepathically. It is really weird and I don’t believe in any of that stuff. It is like basically sitting in your car and turning on an a.m. station that is just noise and just turning it up real high. That is what I heard when I first got in there.

The ship was about ten meters in width and about 20 meters in length, that is just an estimate from what I remember. But it was huge. It was shaped like something between an egg and a teardrop. It looked really aerodynamic at least in the shape. I was close enough to make out detail on it but it was not just smooth. There were bumps and notches and things on it. It was really organic -it was almost like art. It looked like something that someone made in a shop. It looked like it could have been hand made but out of what and what materials, I don’t know. Definitely nothing like titanium.

It looked metal but it didn’t have any reflection on it. The sun is shining on it and I could see the different shades of the craft and it didn’t reflect anything. I guarantee that if I had shone a flashlight on it, it wouldn’t have reflected it.

I wanted to get inside because someone- the creatures I think were calling me to help them. Everything was going to be all right. I was so mesmerized and into it and suddenly Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Atkinson were hollering and cussing at me to get the hell out of there.

SG: Why?

JW: I think that they were scared and they didn’t want me to get hurt. I don’t know. And they were real pissed off at me. Basically what happened was after we climbed back up, the DOE, Department of Energy people were there. They knew about it so I don’t know why we went there still to this day. But anyway, I was arrested. I had all my gear taken from me by men in black cammies. They had no nametags. They were older men, probably in their late 30s or 40s. I was at the site probably fifteen or twenty minutes- we were the first people on the position. Then there were other people. They had containment suits. They must have just gotten there. I don’t know because we were down in the gorge. When we climbed up, there were the guys in the black cammies. They took me and put me on a cot that they had. They had me cuffed, both hands down, and they had my legs tied together with those plastic fasteners that the police use. They are kind of like cuffs. And they took me in this huge 47 and we took off.

SG: Did they explain why they were treating you this way?

JW: No, they were cussing at me saying that I was a "dumb asshole." "Why don’t you fucking people ever pay attention to orders?" "You weren’t supposed to be there." "You are not supposed to see this." "You are going to be dangerous if we let you go." I thought that they were going to kill me, really.

Your question again is how long was I contained or subdued. I don’t know. For about two days I think. They had a Lieutenant Colonel from the Air Force and he did not identify himself. And he told me, "If we just took you out in the jungle, they would never find you out there."

I didn’t want to test him to see if he would really do that so I just said, "Yeah." And, he said, "You have got to sign these papers. You never saw this." I "don’t exist" and "this situation never happened." And if you tell anybody, you will just come up missing.

He was real abrasive. Just a cynical asshole I guess is the best way to put it. They had me segregated with Air Force personnel for approximately three weeks and after that I was sent back.

At this facility, I saw there were Americans but there were a lot of other nationalities there. There were Chinese. I think Germans were there. A lot of other people were at this other base. All they did was take me to an interrogation room.

I sat in there for, I don’t know, fifteen hours with a light. They put this light in my face and they were yelling at me. I couldn’t readily identify any of these guys but I knew one of them was at the crash site because I recognized him and he was in black fatigues. He was saying, "What did you see?" He was like growling. He goes, "Are you a patriot? Do you like the Constitution?" I’m like, "Yeah." He said, "We are on our own program. We don’t obey. We just do what we want." And they are growling and they are relishing it. They are yelling at me and hollering and cursing. "You didn’t see anything. We will do you and your whole goddamn family."

It was basically that for about eight or nine hours… "We are going to take you off in a helicopter and we are going to kick your ass out in the jungle and we are going to end you." They didn’t physically put their hands on me but I was sitting in a chair and I was handcuffed to the chair and I couldn’t move so basically it was just harassment. I didn’t eat anything for a whole day. No water. No nothing. I just sat there.

The group, my section was about eight to ten guys but just me, Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Atkinson saw this ship. We were the only ones that saw it. Now the others saw the crash area where it came through the jungle. They saw all that. They didn’t go into the ridge. Like I said, we were ten to twenty meters in front of them and we radioed that we found it and everything was fine. It was in late March, early April of 1997 when this happened...

When I got back to the US I approached Sergeant Allen about it. He is married and has about one or two kids and I went to his house on base. He got all upset and threw me out of his house. He said he didn’t want to talk about it. I guess they scared those guys too. You have got to understand I can’t speak for the rest of the armed services but in the Marine Corp everything is monolithic: When they are told to do something, they are going to do it. If you don’t want to go along, they will basically railroad you.

I didn’t want to keep my mouth shut about it. I told First Sergeant Powell about it. I don’t think that he is still there anymore. We are talking three years ago.

There was no debris that I saw but there were big gashes in the rear of the aircraft. What it looked like is it had been hit with maybe a surface to air missile. There were a couple of HAWK batteries, that’s Homing All the Way Killers – that’s a low to medium anti-aircraft missile.

Basically, it doesn’t have to hit the target in order to destroy the target. What it does is it gets in proximity of it and it has a high explosive fragmentation warhead and it basically explodes like a big shotgun in the vicinity of the targeted area. And by fragmentation it is suppose to destroy the target or damage it so it won’t be able to continue its mission. So I think that we shot it down.

This is what I think happened. We shot it down. The other guys [at the radar facility] knew it was flying. I knew that these aircraft were flying because I had been in the Command Center there at the radar installation and I heard a couple of women there in the Air Force talking about aircraft flying in and out of the atmosphere at mach ten plus. So these aircraft were flying around there. They would reenter the atmosphere. I believe that the higher ups knew it was flying in the area.

This ship was not one of ours. In Stinger School they teach you about all different kinds of aircraft and I knew a lot of aircraft anyway. Essentially, when I saw it I said, "This is nothing that I knew of."

Basically, the radar was sitting on a hill and it rotates. There is a command bunker that was built under the Earth. It looks like Star Wars in there. It is totally air-conditioned. It is really nice. There are computers and they have the control panels that control the radar and I guess they are linked to other sites and get other data coming in.

Well, one night I was in there checking people going in and out. They have ID’s and I would check them. So these two girls came walking out and they were talking, "Well, we have these aircraft flying again." And the other girl said, "Yeah, they are coming in and out of the atmosphere." And they log all these flights coming in. Later a man comes and gets the logbooks and I had to sign off for him to take all that.

When you have objects that reenter the atmosphere and then stop on a dime and then turn around and go exactly the opposite direction -- that is kind of strange. Meteors don’t do that.

SG: Is this something that was rare or something that was happening all the time?

JW: Oh, this was happening all the time. There were about three or four instances where I was on duty there that the same Air Force Officer came in there to get the log books. So these craft were tracked from this particular radar and were logged in. I guess the reason they were taking them is that they didn’t want people to know that they were tracking these craft. I am just assuming that.

So I think they knew this craft was coming in. We can’t identify it. It is violating airspace here. They could have radioed the Peruvians and said to take them out and they shot them down. I am confident that when I saw the aircraft, it had been hit by something. Something had taken it out.

I am not doing this to make money or publicity or anything but I think it needs to be told. I think that people need to hear it. Whether they agree with me or not is of no consequence.

It is not from Earth. I knew that when I looked at it. I wondered if those facilities were built for the intent to track UFO’s or other objects and their cover was there to track drug aircraft. I don’t know, but from what I understand they were doing a whole lot more than just tracking drug aircraft. They had laser range finders and all kinds of high tech stuff that I have never seen before. I couldn’t really explain it. They [the laser range finders] looked like big telescopes but they had them in a bunker and it was able to rise up and zoom around- Just a bunch of weird stuff.

The base I was taken to was definitely something like NATO or some multinational deal. I keep going back and really thinking about that. Why are all these guys here? Why would the Chinese be concerned with drugs being smuggled into the states? I know for a fact that our government is the one that is importing drugs. I think that this Command Center was permanent. This thing has been in operation for while…

At the crash site there were about thirty of those guys with hazard suits on, at least. They marched right by me as I was being taken away. They were marching to get down the cliff. I guess they were there to check this thing out. I think they went in there and they took everything out and they shipped it back home.

The behavior of these people was like this is routine and these guys were squared away. They knew exactly what they were doing. They had been trained to do this stuff before. That was the atmosphere: professional, cold, unassuming nature. We are here to do a job. Get the fuck out of our way is basically the attitude.

I almost lost my mind after this happened.

SG: Why is that?

JW: I was raised in a Christian home to believe that there was a God and that he created everything in the Universe and here they are -- these creatures that I have never seen before and this happens. It made me almost crazy. Not suicidal, but I had to reevaluate everything that I knew. It is sort of like when you were a kid and you had been told that Santa Claus is real and then you find out that he is not. It is like now that you know that there is no going back.

There is no denial. There is no way to say, "I didn’t really see this." What do I do? Do I tell people? Who is going to believe that a Lance Corporal in the Marine Corp in the middle of the fucking jungle is going to see an aircraft like this?

If I had to I would go with these creatures right now. I had this obsession with that I guess because of the pain and the experience in the Marine Corps, but I just wanted to escape and I was thinking about being with these creatures and wanting to go with them and wanting to get out of here…

These different agencies are on their own. They don’t obey the law. They are rogue. Do I think that this is a project that goes up through the government and everyone has a piece in it? No. I think these guys operate on their own and no one knows what they do. It is so easy to do today. And there is no oversight, no control. They just do whatever they want. They are evil. These people are evil. Do I think that it goes to Bill Clinton and the Congress? There may be guys up there that know about it but they are not going to say anything. If they say anything, they are through.

Lethal, deadly force has been used. For those of you who don’t know, I know marine snipers and I have heard other guys talk about it and I’ve heard that these guys go on the streets and they stalk people and they kill them. I know that the Army Airborne snipers do the same thing. They use Delta Force to go grab these people and silence them by killing them. If this goes on, where do they get the money to finance all this. Very simply, they are selling arms. They are selling drugs. A lot of this business is about having the spec ops and how they get these unlimited amounts of money. Well, it is not coming from the government coffers - it is coming from running drugs or weapons - the selling of hardware or whatever.

I have lived in honorable circumstances but I confessed to having smoked marijuana so I could get out of the Marines. That is what I told them because I wanted out. Well, there were two ways to do it: I could have either told them that [or that] I was homosexual. That wouldn’t have gone over too well. So I went over to First Sergeant Powell and I told him that I wanted to get out and what was the quickest way to get out and he said, "Tell them you smoked marijuana. Only tell them that you smoked it once." So I told them that and they had the CID guy come and talk to me and I said, "Yeah, I smoked marijuana. I took one puff and I inhaled." I was desperate to get out…

GF: My name is George A. Filer, III. I was in the U.S. Air Force and my final rank was major. I was a navigator in various aircraft and tanker transport aircraft. I was an intelligence officer most of my career, and in that period, frequently briefed generals and congressmen on our capabilities and the threat to our forces.

Well, I was a briefing officer, and I would come to work [at] 4:00 or so in the morning. On the morning of January 18, 1978, I drove through the main gate at McGuire, and I noticed that there were red lights out on the runway, and that probably something was going on out there. [I] didn’t think too much about it until I got to the 21^st Air Force Command Post, [which] was where I worked. I was the Deputy Director of Intelligence for the 21^st Air Force, which controlled half the military aircraft that flew the presidents and the various VIPs from the Mississippi River around to India. We had some 300 aircraft, and we were flying all kinds of missions — almost anything that had to do with military airlift, we accomplished.

This particular morning, when I went into the command post, I was met by the head of the command post, and he said that it [had] been a very exciting evening — that [we’d] had UFOs over McGuire all night, that one had apparently landed or, possibly, crashed at Fort Dix, and that when a military policeman came upon the alien, that he had pulled out a gun and shot him. And I said, foreigner, [that kind of] alien? I was a little bit confused by him saying alien. And he said, "No, an alien from outer space." He was very specific about the fact that an alien from outer space had been shot at Fort Dix, and that he had run away after being wounded, and headed for McGuire. Now McGuire and Fort Dix just have a fence between them, and this alien apparently climbed the fence or went under it, and got to McGuire and died out on the end of the runway. The security police were out there and had captured the body, so to speak, and were guarding it. He said that a C-141 from Wright-Patterson was coming in to pick up the body. That made me stand up, because I didn’t realize that Wright Patterson had C-141s — I thought Military Airlift Command was the only one who owned C-141 aircraft — so I was like, my gosh, what’s going on here? He said, "We want you to brief us at the standup general briefing this morning and explain what happened to everybody." And, I said you want me to tell General Tom Sadler and everybody in the command post that we captured an alien?!

They said, "Yes, we want you to brief [them] this morning." Well, I did some checking around, and I called the 38^th Military Airlift Wing Command Post to check with them to see if the story was the same as I was given. They said, yes, that they had heard the same information; they said that this actually did happen — that an alien was found on the base.

Later that morning, I was told that they decided not to brief it in the standup briefing, so I didn’t actually brief it. Later that morning, I carried the code word down to General Sadler’s office, and I noticed some commotion going on in there, and that some of the security police people were there, looking rather disheveled. Since General Sadler was a stickler for everyone looking perfect, it was surprising to see these people that obviously needed shaves and were in fatigues, so then I knew that this might tie into the story that I had heard.

After the briefing I went to the photo lab; almost every day I went to the photo lab, because in these briefings, you have four screens and you have to keep them all filled up with pretty pictures, and so on. There, they indicated that they had taken pictures of something extraordinary, and I said, well, let me see them. The sergeant was handing them to me, when his master sergeant said, "He can’t see those," so all I knew is that they had some pictures that I wasn’t allowed to see — but normally, being the general’s briefer — I had never been stopped from seeing any pictures that they had.

It was a very serious operation. There are nuclear assets on the base — they used to carry nuclear weapons back and forth to Europe — and I talked to one of the security policemen who [claimed] to have been out there. He indicated that he essentially saw a small body that could have been like a child, but it seemed to have a larger-than-normal head.

One interesting thing is that many of the key personnel on the base at that time who had a connection with this event, were quickly transferred — from the wing commander on down — indicating that if you knew something, they tended to split you up, so to speak, so you couldn’t talk about it. This was done within a matter of weeks. The security policeman told me that he was transferred within a few days — as a matter of fact, he was taken to Wright Patterson within a day or two, debriefed by a number of people, and essentially told not to talk about it anymore.

I also heard that they listened to this going on, on the radios, and they heard that this chase was on; that the alien had been shot at Fort Dix. They were chasing it towards McGuire — for whatever reason, it chose to run towards McGuire Air Force Base — and that both the state police and the military police were chasing this person or alien that came from what looked like a UFO. As I understand it, it was a disc-shaped craft.

They indicated to me that the UFOs had been in the area for quite some time that evening, that they had [them] on radar, and that the tower operator had seen them. Some of the other aircraft in the area had apparently seen them as well.

There were six or eight people guarding the body; then there was the commander of the security police, and a few of us in the command post [who knew of this event]. I assume that General Sadler was briefed about it.

SG: Have you learned of other UFO events while you were in the military?

GF: Well, I happened to meet a lady who was at White Sands, and was an engineer working out there. She was out hiking one day, and she told me that she and a couple of her friends had come up to the top of a hill, and they had looked down in this valley, but only their heads were showing on the top of the hill. They just happened to be looking over, and down the way the path was, and they saw a UFO on the ground with a couple of little aliens picking up rocks and things. They watched it for an extensive period; it was only several hundred yards away from them, and they got a pretty good look at it. And eventually the aliens did see them, and they jumped in the craft and took off.

I had personally never seen anything until about 1962, when we were flying tankers over England, and London Control asked us to intercept a UFO. We happened to be done with our refueling mission, and we accepted the assignment. We were just over the North Sea, and they asked us to fly to the center of England. We were doing some 400 miles an hour in a dive down to intercept this object. They gave us headings, and it was pretty much hovering in the Stonehenge area — Oxford, to the Stonehenge area, at 20-30 miles out. I got it on radar, and it was a very large return.

We used to fly up by the Forth of Frith Bridge, which was kind of like the San Francisco Bridge — it is a very large bridge, and the return of the UFO was similar to that in size and intensity. In other words, it was a very large radar return. Obviously, London Control had it on their radar, and they were vectoring us to this object. When we got about a mile from the UFO, it just took off into space — several thousand miles an hour, almost directly up. Frankly, at least to my knowledge, we had nothing like that capability.

My best guess is that it was a disc-type craft, but a fat disc — at least, there were lights something like this at the top and at the bottom. It was more than just a straight plate-like object; it had a dome on the top of it.

If the radar return was accurate, it was probably 500 yards across in size, or something — I mean it was a huge thing. We wrote it in the navigator’s log.

I also had a sighting here, where we live. This is Briarwood Lake in Medford, New Jersey; we had just moved into this house. We were asleep — I’m just guessing it was 3:00 in the morning, asleep with my wife — and, suddenly, the room got very bright in the middle of the night. I got up out of bed, and opened up the shade, and looked outside. I don’t know if most people have seen a submarine surfacing with all the water coming up — well, this was like a disc about 30 feet in diameter surfacing, and what looked to me like water coming off of it.

Around the craft was this ionization — very similar to the Aurora Borealis. It moved across the lake for a while, and then flew off at a fairly high rate of speed. Because of that, I have checked with a lot of the neighbors, and it’s amazing how many people have actually seen craft on these lakes.

Also, occasionally I used to do briefings on the UFO sightings that had occurred around the world, to the generals. One that sticks out in my mind is 1976 — there was a famous encounter near Tehran.

Around that time, this particular colonel was telling me that the F-106 had set the world’s record for speed. They had these aircraft going as fast as they could, and they would be diving on this UFO that was hovering in a valley in Colorado. Just like my experience in England, when they got near the craft, it took off and left them standing still. They were doing 1,500 mph or something — whatever the top speed was at that time for these aircraft in a dive — but whoever was flying these had capabilities far beyond anything that we had for years and years — I think even today.

I think these are something alien: it is a non-human [craft] that has a different form of propulsion and is coming here and doing reconnaissance.

I’ve talked to a number of astronauts who have seen them; I’ve talked to other military pilots who have seen them, and I remember Captain Ramidge who I used to work for in Athens, Greece — he had one during the Korean War fly right off his wing, stay with him like for an hour — not only off his wing, but [doing] acrobat things around his aircraft! I don’t know the exact percentage of people, but something like 10 percent of the pilots and aircrews that you ask about it have had sightings.

I sat in this room here a few years ago, and a colonel who was in Intelligence told me he had his whole B-52 crew see a UFO. You know, these people don’t volunteer and sit in front of the camera and tell about it, but there are an awful lot of people who have seen them. They know that they have advanced capabilities. They usually see some kind of a solid object that appears to be made of some kind of metal — usually a gunmetal gray. Particularly at night, people usually report various lights around them.

SG: What happened to the ET at McGuire?

GF: It seems to me that I was told that it was put in some kind of a casket and flown away.

I also think that in 1947, in that time frame, something crashed out West. I think that something happened out there, at least based on what you might say is the talk in the military.

The tendency is to make things classified when you don’t know what’s happening — secret, top secret or whatever — and if it comes down from the President, it’s a very high classification: probably a code word above top secret. In other words, need to know that kind of thing, and once that caveat or designation is put on something, it’s very difficult to get it downgraded. You can go to the archives and despite what they tell you, they have things going back to the Second World War that you still are not allowed to look at. Once these things are top secret, it just kind of moves on and forever stays top secret. You can base it on the fact, for example, that this craft had advanced technological capabilities, so you don’t want the other side to know what you know, and how these things work — it’s to your advantage to keep this secret.

But, I think that it’s time that these various programs come out. The way that it’s been kept secret to this extent is through ridicule. If it was just a matter of it being top secret, I think most of the world would know about it today, but they put in a kind of ridicule factor. You will hear someone telling a story like this, and people will say, well, he must be crazy — he believes in UFOs. And, they brought this ridicule out when anyone saw anything, but my experience has been an awful lot of policemen have seen these; an awful lot of FBI have seen these; an awful lot of military have seen these.

At times I used to carry nuclear weapons. In other words, I was mentally fit to carry nuclear weapons, but I’m not mentally fit if I see a UFO. This criticism and this ridicule have done more to keep the story [from] coming out than almost anything else.