Rick Martin: Interesting.

Red Elk: And you can emphasize their! We have, basically, three types of other beings, three types of thought. Those who are FOR us, which is just about zero, if not so. Those who are AGAINST us, which is close, if not very, very close to 100%. And those who IGNORE us. Hot, cold, lukewarm. Scripture says: ďI would rather you be hot or cold, than lukewarm.Ē Lukewarm makes a very uncomfortable bath. If itís hot, you can take a bath, you can cool it to your liking. Cold, at least you can drink it. But to drink or bathe in lukewarm water is really difficult. So, in their own ways, they are all against us, and only for themselves.

Gail Cortright: Wow.

Rick Martin: You talk in your booklet about Lucifer being behind everything, and the opposition to Lucifer is, of course, part of Godís Greater Plan anyway, in an effort for everyone to be aware of how magnificent He is as a being.

Red Elk: Absolutely. We - this particular planet - is a mousetrap floating in space, and you and I are the cheese. We are the ones who will draw all to us. And they are close, I mean close.

Fighting, right now, the war is suckering in every created being whoís alive today, including different dimensions - not parallel times, but including dimensions, and times, and planes. Many who want nothing to do with the war have no choice but to go to war.

These are not spiritual beings Iím speaking of; these are physical beings. Itís all over us. We smell pretty good to the mice out there. And thatís exactly why the Creator has allowed everything to go on as it is. ITíS HIS PLAN.

And none of them, absolutely none, except for the few who I get in contact with  -  full-blood Lizards, half-breeds, that type of thing  -  none of these people give one thought to anything but themselves. They, in their own way, right, and mind, believe that. They donít give any thought to ever being created, to their ďoriginalĒ Adam and Eve, their original Sasquatch of their planet. They just plain donít have Him (which has no sex) in their mind at all. Itís their culture. Itís accepted. We are who we are.

And the vast majority feel that they are the BIG G, God. And in so doing, they can do anything they want. If they want to do bad, theyíre God, they can do it. If they want to do good, they can do it. But the fact is, very few, Iím talking just 3, 4, or maybe 10 people on this planet are aware that they are not God, therefore are not Lucifer, and therefore have no right to do to others, just no right. And, well, the rest feel otherwise.

And my job is to make the others, all others, not just people of our planet, but all others, aware that there is something far bigger than them, and that they, in turn, are being hoodwinked, stealthfully used by someone they donít believe exists either. They think they are God, they are Lucifer - in fact, they are not either.

And the true Lucifer is using them, and making them feel like they are God.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: So the fact is, itís not them against us, itís Lucifer against the Creator. Do you understand? But we happen to be the physical ones who are getting zapped.

Rick Martin: Caught in the middle.

Red Elk: Yeah. But what a wonderful middle it is for this planet. All the people who will die - look at the end result of the millions who, beyond our planet, who will finally see the truth. There is ONE CREATOR! Bring them back to their original roots that they had, eons ago, but now forgotten. And it is our sacrifice for the Creator, to be the cheese in the mousetrap, willing or unwilling. And what is death? Itís a continuation of life, period.

So, itís going to be kind-of a hurtful way to die for many people, but it is anyway. Some people get tortured to death, some people get run over by a truck or a car and spend days dying, but we all die. We donít have to, but we all die. Death is nothing. Getting there can be a pain. Death is a piece of cake. Iíve been there, done that. Iíve got 3 more trips to go. No problem.

As far as Iím concerned, Heaven - ho, wow, what a place that is! I never go there, Iím always taken there. Heaven, to me, is a great place to visit, but Iíve got a job to do and I donít want to stay.

Gail Cortright: So thatís not just a state of mind?

Red Elk: Oh, no, no, no. You ought to see the walls in Heaven, unbelievable. They are huge, glasslike - I could not even venture how thick between one glass pane and the other one behind it. I have no idea. But itís not an inch; Iím talking feet or yards. And its pastel marble, and itís like somebody blowing smoke between glass panes, and all this color, these beautiful pastel blues and pinks and golds; oh, itís just beautiful. And thatís what the walls are like. And you touch them and theyíre warm. Theyíre not hot, theyíre not cold; its just fantastic. A nice place to visit - and for anybody who worries about it, shoot, donít worry.

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: The AIR, the air, I think, is the most unbelievable part of all of the Heavens. The air is GOD HIMSELF - the awareness, the love, the majesty. You breathe God!

Maybe you two are old enough to remember, Grandma would wash windows with newspapers and vinegar. When she got done, they squeaked, and it was a prism of sunshine coming through, thousands of clean glass particles. Thatís what the air is like, and you breathe it. Itís a ďheavyĒ place to go to, really cool.

Gail Cortright: I bet.

Rick Martin: Wouldnít mind a vacation there.

Red Elk: Wouldnít mind a vacation?

Rick Martin: Wouldnít mind a vacation there.

Red Elk: Some people get that vacation, then come back and they are not afraid of dying. I never was, in the first place. But Iíve spent my time up there, and came back. And I know that I will do 3 more times. But the fourth time, Iím not coming back. Iím done here.

But, people have asked me: ďIf youíve really been there, why did you come back?Ē Like they donít believe me. Iíve got a job to do!

Rick Martin: Yeah, your job is not done.

Red Elk: Nope. And Iím very pleased with my job. Iím not going to be too happy with whatís going to happen during it, to me personally, but me be darned. I am no one. I am here for others. I just happened to be a by-product. Itís something that Inner Heyokas know. No, this is not a matter of blowing myself up, at all. Iím just making a statement.

Rick Martin: Over the last number of years there are a fair number of so-called New Age authors and channels who have either made the statement that Lucifer is no longer on the planet, or heís been bound, or heís not really an active force anymore. And I think itís really a disservice to man for people to be making those kinds of statements when he is very much a real force, and he is very much in the game.

Red Elk: Well, again, what is going on with people who say that? It is Lucifer trying to convince any who will listen that that is a fact; therefore theyíre open to be ďgodsĒ within their own minds, and do whatever they want. Itís all deception.

Gail/Rick: Thatís right.

Red Elk: Lucifer is a wonderful being. Iíve seen him, personally. Iíve faced him, personally. And heís not red, with a long tail and horns! But nevertheless - he is a Master of deception, a Master of lying!

Rick Martin: Heís the best.

Red Elk: Oh, there is nothing better. If you say Lucifer is all bad, youíre wrong. Heís a good example of whatís all bad! The Creator, what a kick, I love the way the Creator works. Lucifer canít get anywhere except by conning you.

People say: ďOh, the devil made me do it.Ē Or ďThe devilís on my back.Ē

No, not if they see it right. There is no bad, it is only how you comprehend it and look at it. Iím not saying that my grandchild being tortured and raped is not a bad event. But I look at it even different beyond that: It is simply a test to watch if you can grow past the rock, pebble, or mountain put in your spiritual path to grow.

There is no bad. It is only how you look at bad. The Creator allows these things to happen, hoping that you will realize that it is a rock, a pebble, or mountain in your path, and that you will overcome it, and get stronger in love, His Love, true love, purity love, and just keep going up that path.

He wants you to learn to go around, over, or under that large boulder thatís been placed there by Lucifer. In short, Heís using Lucifer, and Luciferís conning you, thinking that itís Him doing it, as Lucifer; and it is, but youíre supposed to be conned into thinking that you cannot surmount that stone, which you CAN! Heís conned you into thinking that you canít.

And Iíll guarantee you: a man who lays down gets up a lot slower than a man who falls down. And we all fall, we all fail. But the guy who falls down, gets up quick, and he starts attacking that stone. In time, in time, as you grow, that rock will only make you falter, as you walk through it. You no longer have to go around it, above it, or under it. You grow so spiritually strong, it just holds you there for a few moments. And you just say: ďAh, come on, this is just an illusion; this is meant to slow me down from growing spiritually, to Dad, and in Dad.Ē And Iím just going to have to bypass it. Iím going to bypass it this time by walking through it! And when you get to that stage in your life, in your spiritual growth, boy, I tell you, itís fun. And you get bigger and bigger rocks thrown there.

Rick Martin: (Laughter)

Red Elk: Yeah, but it makes you grow stronger and stronger and stronger. And then the world looks at you and says: ďHow could you laugh at that terrible thing that happened to you?Ē

ďAh, shoot, piece of cake.Ē You understand what I mean?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: There is no bad, brother, none whatsoever. Itís only how you look at it. Iím not saying things are not horrible and wonít happen, or donít happen; they do. But it is meant for you to grow, spiritually.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Rick Martin: Letís talk about the levels under our feet.

Red Elk: Mr. Bell did not give me the opportunity to explain it all, and I canít blame him, entirely. I misunderstood one of his questions, but nevertheless, thereís no accidents, including getting off the track many times on Mr. Bellís show; thereís no accidents. I gave a lot of things out, unfinished.

So many came back to me in written notes: ďWhatís this? Finish it up.Ē

So, Iím still writing letters. (Laughter) Gosh, am I writing letters, answering letters.

But, nevertheless, people have gotten the impression there is a ball, free floating inside a ball, free floating inside a ball, free floating inside a ball, and on and on. This is not the case.

The whole Earth, from its lava center, to our literal top here, number 6, is solid, except for HUGE, HUGE CAVERNS, caverns that are two, three hundred miles wide, and many, many times that long. Just like we have caves, big ones, up here [in Washington state], there are caves in the next level down, number 5. That is the 5th inner-land.

And mankind, here on this surface, if they hit the right spot, and could go deep enough, they would hit a big air pocket and drop 2-3 miles before they would start hitting more rock, because theyíve penetrated a cave. These caves are filled, and deliberately made to look like what we experience here on the surface of our planet.

And the deeper you go, number 5, there are lots and lots of these caves. But its not so many that you punch a hole here, there, and everywhere and youíre hitting nothing but caves.

By the way, their is the illusion of ďmountainsĒ between number 5ís floor and ceiling. Because of the heat inside, and because of the air outside, here, that gets down in there, cold and hot, it creates great clouds. So the people - the few who are there at the moment, and the many who will return - they see these as clouds. And the sides of these giant caves, they believe are mountains, the tops of which are hidden by clouds. In truth, itís not; itís just the top of the cave; but you canít see that because there are clouds; itís steamy in there. Do you understand?

Gail/Rick: Yes.

Red Elk: The farther down you go, the less and less caves, and the smaller and smaller. And then you get, literally, right down to Luciferís realm, where there are very, very few natural caves. Everything there heís connected cave-to-cave, his own tunnels, and made his own caves. Do you understand?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: Ok. Anything below him is too hot for him, the lava at level number 1, our planetís center.

Rick Martin: Now, what are these caves that are under South America, under China, that are like fused glass, smooth caves that go for hundreds, perhaps thousands of miles?

Red Elk: There is no ďperhapsĒ. I am a caretaker of the tunnels.

Rick Martin: Who made those?

Red Elk: Some are very natural. Some, very few, but some were made by Lucifer as he dug in through our surface to find the heat-range he liked.

And then again, some of them are on the number 5, and number 4 planetary levels [beneath the Earthís surface, the surface being number 6 ]. Now, understand, when I speak of number 5 and number 4, and on down, Iím speaking of solid earth with caves. All right?

They were made by the so-called gods, who originally came down to DNA us. That was two alliances. One, we call the Slopeheads, they were giants, 20-26 feet tall giants, who were in alliance with the ones who we call the Lizard people. They made an alliance to come to this planet to mine gold, and other minerals.

The Lizards, liking it hot, because they are from a series of three planets that are nothing but sand - three dwarf suns that are so hot it would blind them within a minute. They dug down. They, literally, live underground, in beautiful (to them) cities and towns, connected by tunnels and stuff, but underground on those planets.

They were not comfortable up here on the # 6 level of Earthís surface - too cold, too windy. It was just not their comfort zone.

So they said: ďLook, weíll take part of those [ primitive ] humans of this planet, and weíll go underground and weíll just mine x number of miles below. Youíre used to this up here, you take x amount [of primitive humans for slave labor], and you do it up here.Ē And thatís how the alliance was made.

The alliance also said that there would be a people untouched by either, to evolve naturally. That has happened, and thatís our Sasquatch, Yeti, Bigfoot, and so forth.

Nevertheless, the Lizards were, and are, extremely cruel taskmasters. For whatever reason, I have never seen a female Lizard from below, in my taking past trips or present.

Rick Martin: Yes, I read that in your booklet, pretty interesting.

Red Elk: So what has happened is, they took their quota of human beings, took them digging tunnels and stuff, going down, took them in to be miners.

And, in so doing, theyíre quite the sex fiends, these beings, very sex-minded. They raped men and women alike. Now, these are male Lizards raping whoever they wanted.

And, these Lizards hardly ever got their slave people any more then absolutely needed, for drink, let alone food. They were really bad slave masters, and killing these people off, prematurely, just through their own cruelty. And, therefore, running out of their quota.

So, they started going up, sneaking up here, and grabbing more people to take down there.

Meanwhile, our ďgodsĒ up here (not the true God, understand), they were much more pleasant, much kinder. They used shots and stuff for their DNA, to make our Sasquatch more handleable, and more to their need and liking, to do the mining up here. So, they werenít rapists, and stuff.

They were pretty good people, really, to be honest with you, despite the agenda. By the way, those people are the ones who, the Slopeheads, are literally sculpted and are the heads that are on
Easter Island.

Nevertheless, there were a number of raids, and it was inexcusable. The Lizards had broken the alliance many times, and were raiding the ďno one touches theseĒ group, as well as taking some of our so-called gods, down.

So, our gods decided: ďThis is enough. Letís face it. These Lizard people have done nothing but lie. And theyíve broken the alliance many, many times over. So, letís just declare war, and say enoughís enough. Letís go down and save those human beings that theyíve got down there, and pull them out, and try and destroy the Lizards, and get them out of there, and get them off the inner-land.Ē

Well, in so doing they realized that this surface, the Sun, was way too bright. There were winds, and stuff like that. These people have been down there, and bred, and so on and so forth, for many, many, many, many years. They were not used to sunlight. They were not used to cold. They were just slaves, digging, and being raped, and eaten alive - anything that these Lizard s.o.b.s wanted to do, they did.

So, our boys, our gods, went down to the next level, making more tunnels on the way down, and connected, tunneled between giant caverns. And in those caverns they created what we have on this planet, but with a much dimmer Sun.

Actually, I did a misdeed, by accident. Iíve never seen a Moon under there. The Sun is the Moon. At night, it gets darker; in day, it gets lighter. Itís a fascinating machine, this hovering Sun. And itís not just in one cavern, itís in all these huge caverns, theyíve got this.

Rick Martin: Now, I donít want to get you off-track. I want to stay on this track. But I want to remember to ask you about the being that [Zulu Shaman and Elder] Credo Mutwa referred to as Jabulon, the leader of the Chitauli, or the Reptilians. Is THAT Lucifer, is that one and the same?

Red Elk: No, no, no.

Rick Martin: Totally different?

Red Elk: Well, yeah. He thinks heís Top Dog, because he is just like them, all thinking they are god, they are Lucifer. He just thinks he is the Top Dog amongst them. But he himself is being used by Lucifer, who is FULL OF STEALTH.

But anyway, this Sun, again, in reality, is quite small, being that itís only two or three miles up. It pulls energy. I looked at it just within the last, oh, three, four weeks, trying to figure out what kind of power it has. Itís not nuclear power, and yet itís forever lasting. The gravity situation, to make it levitate, I have no idea. But, I have found out that it pulls power in from our actual Sun, through the Earthís skin and pores.

Rick Martin: Boy, thatís interesting.

Red Elk: Yeah, it is really fascinating.

I am connecting this discussion with certain Earth-healing vortices, and with a number of pyramids here in the United States, and the time cave.

There are certain places you donít dare walk onto, walk directly onto the top, or be in, with a credit card, or anything. Literally, the power is so great, that energy going in, and back, and mixing, to power the Sun that is within that general area of the time cave, or pyramid, or whatever, it just wipes out your magnetic strip. It does the same thing with cell phones. New batteries, I mean NEW, within an hour of putting it in, you turn the battery on, within under 10 minutes, your battery is drained. It burns film, when you go to take pictures. Your film comes out just with this orange/red coloration, like itís been exposed to great heat. You just canít get good pictures from these spots. You can get good pictures OF these spots, but not from these spots. But thatís because the gods, with whatever type of magic - I call it magic, not meaning that, but - technology they use, have learned to harness our own Sunís solar power to power these false suns.

Once all of this environment was made, the plains were planted, and the grasses growing, they built beautiful cities, oh, just beautiful! The main building of each city is a cross between the Aztec pyramid and the Giza pyramid. Just beautiful, all stone. The ones that Iíve been to, if itís granite, itís a white granite. Sandstone is involved, and another kind. There is a black city, too, all black, like a black obsidian, just absolutely gorgeous. It doesnít mean that itís a bad city; thatís the rock that was there that they could work with. And thereís another city, down under Mexico - actually, if I can remember correctly, under Mexico City - and itís just beautiful! And itís much more Aztecian - a gold, gold-covered, beautiful thing. And these are all over on this # 5 level of the
Inner Earth, just beneath us.

Anyway, once they got everything growing, you know, they had plants growing, they planted fish in the water, and so on, and so forth.

Rick Martin: Who are we talking about?

Red Elk: Our gods, up here, preparing to save those who have been taken below. How they got away with it, without the Lizards knowing, beats me, but they did.

They got all this going, all this built. Once that was done, they started drilling down to the next lower level, # 4, and making tunnels. And in so doing, they also set-up many traps between our surface and the ceiling, and the cavern sides, that hold up the caves. They made many, many tunnels, many side tunnels, all traps, all traps. And the only ones who knew where these traps were, were the builders themselves, our so-called gods.

Well, they went down and attacked the Lizards, and did like I told Mr. Art. They did an excellent number on them. Many, on both sides, were killed, including human slaves; many were killed. A huge war went on down there. And the Lizards were beat. And they ran off and licked their wounds.

We got what we could - I say we, meaning our gods - we got what we could and brought them up to the surface of # 5 level [ first level below Earthís surface], to let them stay 10 generations; however long those ďgenerationsĒ were, I do not know. It was far longer than what you and I call a generation now.

This was so they could get used to that sun, and what little breeze they created, through many tunnels that they built, and so on, so that they could safely come up to the surface, the #6 level, and face an even stronger Sun, and stronger breeze, and so on.

Well, the Lizards, over time, licked their wounds and regrouped, and attacked. And our people, our gods, were hoping they could make it through 10 generations.

Well, they didnít. They made it through about 8Ĺ, I think, before the Lizards counter-attacked, driving our human people, as well as our gods, up to this #6 surface. Your Navajo, Arapaho, so on, they are really the miners from down there - short stocky bodies, strong legs, strong arms. They have yet to evolve into a more typical # 6 surface dweller [the Earthís surface upon which we live]; but theyíre doing good though.

Rick Martin: So when they talk about coming up through the Sipapu, and coming up from the Earth -

Red Elk: They know what theyíre talking about! Listen to them.

And they [the Native Americans] are not the only ones. Others have come up, in Africa, and all different continents. Some of our Africans claim they came from above, now, and thatís true. Some claim they came from below, up, and thatís true. Some of them donít know where they came from, and thatís true, because they were created and always stayed here on # 6 level.

Meanwhile, the Lizards themselves made many tunnels, not only through the drilling process, but preparing to counter-attack.

Rick Martin: Now, were the Lizards independents? Or, were they just associates of Lucifer?

Red Elk: They didnít know Lucifer existed. Do you understand that? Get that in your head.

Rick Martin: Totally independent.

Red Elk: Totally believing they are god. They can do anything they want, godly or ungodly. They donít even have a name for God, or a name for Lucifer. They have their own name. They are ALL - so they think - just a big con job. But nevertheless, they, in preparing to attack the # 5 level, also made tunnels, with many traps.

So the great chase was on. They came up and attacked ďourĒ guys on # 5, who were watching the kids grow (the rescued ones, for the 10 generations), and they did a number on our guys.

So, our guys escaped with a number of the human beings who they had rescued; many, many others never made it. They were all killed. And they emerged, through certain areas across our continents, and thatís where the stories ďwe came from Inner EarthĒ came from. They did!

What happened to our gods, our Slopeheads? It really is something I donít know.

I know that the Lizards have remained. But the gods, basically, have left. And by the way, I think Iíve got a rather good idea what they did. They went to the dimension that was not in our dimension, where this Earth is. They were from another dimension, and they went home.

Rick Martin: Letís continue to talk about the layers. I know you got so side-tracked on Art Bell. If you have more to say about the layers under our feet, letís do that now.

Red Elk: I donít think there is much more to say about it. They are not ďballs within ballsĒ. They are all connected.

The lower you go, the less and less caves, until they are almost totally non-existent. And thatís where Lucifer has taken over and made what I like to call their ďglass wallĒ - caves and tunnels and stuff - quite a machinery that they work with. This is kind-of odd to say that because the Christian world thinking weíre dealing with all spirit. Well, yes and no. Theyíve learned to appear in spirit. I do that. But, nevertheless, they are very technical, physical-technical, and they have forever life.

Rick Martin: How would you describe Lucifer, if you were to do that?

Red Elk: Looks?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: Oh - beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Rick Martin: Human?

Red Elk: No, angel; human-looking, but an angel. Not demonic, and to be honest with you - no hair on his body, none; no sexual organs, none; thereís nothing there. Heís got the perfect body, the PERFECT body - tonal muscles, stomach, just perfect; the guy is perfect. Yet so ďblackĒ [spiritually dark] that in the black where I was facing him, I literally hit my nose with my hand, trying to see if I could see my hand. And yet, when he appeared in that blackness, it was like there was a dim light on; no problem to see. And so unbelievably beautiful you couldnít believe it. But, heís like someone who is so charismatic, so well liked, who comes to a party, the kind of man or woman who, when he/she opens the door and enters, everybodyís head turns. You understand?

Rick Martin: Yes, I do.

Red Elk: And that one person, man or woman, looks over the party of these people and sees somebody who they canít stand, and their face instantly turns to this HATE. There is hate on the face of Lucifer. Absolutely beautiful, but the most ugly thing that you can imagine.

Rick Martin: A large being?

Red Elk: Oh yeah, about 22 feet. No tail, no horns, no eyebrows, no pointy ears. Beautiful being. Absolutely - itís hard for me to say this, being male - gorgeous.

Rick Martin: This will seem like a sidetrack, but I have a note here to myself to ask you about Planet X or Nibiru. Who are those beings, the Anunnaki?

Red Elk: You know, I donít know who
the Anunnaki are. I have a very strong feeling - although I cannot say I know - but I have a very strong feeling they are a race of beings, slaves, who were brought here by another race, not of the two of the Alliance, from another planet. And were themselves used, on this planet, in a slave form. But they, very definitely, are not of this planet. Where they went, I know not, other than taken-off and taken to wherever, to another planet. Kind-of traveling slaves.

Planet X, Iím not sure what youíre referring to. Are you referring to the one that makes the great oval, that comes by every 2300 or 3200 years, or something.

Rick Martin: Yes, every 3600 years.

Red Elk: Oh, yes, and itís here, itís here. Itís within their shipsí range, and has been now for, at the very least, three years, five, I think. These are the Gargoyle race. This is where our Gargoyle legends come from, our devils. Thatís these beings.

They donít have the technology - they donít have the need, really - to go through worm holes, or whatnot, to get to one place or another. They are on their own spaceship, a planet, that makes a great oval course. And they harvest the planets as they go by. WE are the harvest, the human beings. And they pluck us like you and I would go out and pluck apples off a tree. But they always leave enough people to re-seed the Earth.

Rick Martin: Well, talking about the harvest, letís talk about the False Rapture vs. the Real Rapture.

Red Elk: Ok. Now, this is going to be really hard for the so-called Christian world to comprehend, unless theyíve got some dang brains.

Rick Martin: Thatís fine. Just speak truthfully, thatís all we care about.

Red Elk: Thatís right. I want them to check it out for themselves. Scripture says - this is God saying - ďI am the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.Ē And thatís His Word. He does not lie.

So, He IS the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. He will not change. And people have often said, look at the Jews in the Old Testament, that they are examples, if you follow God, what will happen; if you get out of His step, what will happen. See, the city did that, and they got attacked by that city, and blah, blah, blah, and they leave it go there.

But the Old Testament not only was using that as an example for people 3, 4, 5 hundred years later to look back on, it was there for today to look back on. Take Nineveh for example. God told Jonas: ďYou go there and tell them Iím going to destroy them in three days.Ē

And Jonas didnít want to. They were the Lizards of the day. They were pretty bad guys. Not real Lizards, but pretty bad people. And he didnít want to. He defied God and ended up in a serpentís belly, whether it was a giant guppy, a whale, or whatnot, never mind. Why people say a whale, when the Bible doesnít say that at all, I donít know. Itís an example of starting false rumors.

But, anyway, he ended up there, spit out on the shore in front of the city of Nineveh, and decided, you know: ďIíve been living a rough life trying to run from God; I better do what He told me.Ē

So, he went into the city, and danged if they did not repent! Turn away from sin - thatís the word repent. Thatís what it means. And that really ticked-off Jonas, and he went up on the hillside and pouted. He wanted them to get theirs.

Now, God did not destroy them in 3 days. He said He was going to. And yet, because they turned their hearts back to their Creator, He would not destroy them. They got destroyed, just like He said, but it was left to their children, who walked away. Nineveh was an example, for the people, if you do what God tells you, everything will be cake and honey; if not, youíve got trouble.

So, people have looked at that and used that as an example. But, not thinking at all that it is we who are NOW Nineveh, the planet Earth! And if we turn away from sin, if we repent, i.e., if we turn away from sin and go back to God, then we, the planet Earth and all people on it, will forego Armageddon at this time. It will be put off for our children, or our childrenís children - whoever decides to slide back in, as a world generation, to go their own way.

Just as Nineveh, the city of the Old Testament, repented and was saved, so too can this world repent and be saved. We, Earth, is Nineveh, now.

ďI am the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.Ē

And in that, He warned the Jews, if you do what I tell you to do, if you do this, this, and this, everything will be cake and honey. But, if you do this, this, and this, then you will be taken into captivity, and those who captured them could do with them as they chose.

That always happened. The Jews never really paid too much attention. In time, they all slop-shoot down the hill. Then, next thing you know, theyíve got armies attacking them.

And then they start crying ďOh God!Ē

And He says ďToo late dude, you know.Ē

Like you grabbing a little kid who youíve warned and warned and warned. Finally, it comes to it, and she or he are screaming, as youíre getting ready to put them over your knee.

ďIím sorry, Iím sorry.Ē Too late.

So what happened? He was always, and will always, and is always a being of His own Word. He does not lie!

What the future holds is, this planet, under the guise of Nineveh, will have to go through all kinds of spankings, because we paid no attention. But, in the Old Testament there were many lands that captives could be taken to - always leaving a remnant of Jews in Jerusalem, by the way, a very small remnant. But, nevertheless, He was true to His Word. And they were taken into captivity.

Today, we have no single country which is not as good, or better, or as bad, or worse, than any other country. We will be taken into captivity, except it will not be of this land. It will be onto other planets, other lands; other beings will be the bad guys. Other beings from other planets will be the bad guys who come to us and take us off. THE FIRST RAPTURE IS FALSE!

All these towers put up across our country, and I imagine other countries, are not just for microwaves - theyíre for mind control, mass mind control! As well, there are some super-duper towers that can instill in us such thoughts as: ďOh, Christ is coming, Christ is coming!Ē - the joy, and everything else. And people will run out of their houses, stop their cars, get outside, climb their rooftops, do everything that the Bible says - emotionally controlled through these damned towers.

And then the cargo ships will take them up, physically. People will see them rising into the heavens - yelling ďHallelujah!Ē - into captivity, into slavery, sex toys, and alive-eaten food. Iím not talking all of the masses; Iím talking about those who should be the salt of the Earth, the so-called Christian believers. The vast majority of Christian believers will die up there!

Most of those left behind are those who cannot get outside - in the hospitals, and Christians who are in prisons, or down digging mines, whatever; they canít get up there in time for this Rapture. They will be the remnant left behind, and in so doing, they will have, maybe, even a harder life than the slaves taken up, because we will be hunted, if we are down here. Bounties will be on our heads. They will take a gutted Christian body, and tie it across the hood of a car, running through town with the horn blaring: ďLook what I got! I got my Ďdeerí!Ē - paid for by bounty. Iím not saying that going up is going to be easy, but I am saying that staying down here isnít going to be any easier.

Again: ďI am the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. I do not lie.Ē

What the Christians are doing are changing, or not reading, what the Scriptures actually say. They donít see two Raptures. They got their dang butts up in the air, making smiley faces: theyíre gonnaí get their rears saved. Ah, yes, they sure are!

But, we all have to die, donít we?

If they would simply read Scriptures, they would find out what Red Elk is saying is totally true. If they want to change the Scriptures, then what they have to say, want to believe in, thatís their path.

But Iím not changing Scriptures. Iím telling you what the Scriptures actually say. Check it for yourself. Donít be so dang lazy, so dang stupid, that you take your denominationís ideas - that are false in many cases, or lax in many more cases - and just accept them as true. Youíre accepting a MANíS teaching, a manís interpretation!

Believe me, the Creator can speak for Himself, and needs no interpretation. All He needs is somebody whoís got guts enough to sit down, disregard what they have absorbed over the years, and read it for themselves. Heíll talk to them, if theyíre honest about it.

Rick Martin: I have had the overwhelming feeling that there is something coming up of great magnitude, and that at some point there will be a separation of some kind. In feeling that, or in thinking that, am I perceiving this False Rapture as the initial separation?

Red Elk: You could be, and you might not be, because I donít know what time frame you are sensing.

Rick Martin: Iím sensing something major happening within the next brief time. Some kind of major event.

Red Elk: Let me tell you this: I doubt that what youíve just asked is it; I really doubt it.

Number one: there is going to - right now, starting with this magazine and a few things that have gone on - there is going to be a tremendous ďtearing awayĒ from the churches, any denomination, including the religions of the world.

There will be some who finally ďget itĒ, and the rest who want to live in tradition. There will be a great shifting, a great ripping-way of purity from taintedness.

Most people love their taintedness. If the beliefs are good enough for their mom and dad, and grandma and grandpa, itís good enough for them.

But there is a great hunger out there today - and boy, am I a witness to that with these letters! [Heís referring to the avalanche of mail after his session on the Art Bell program.] Thereís a great hunger to know what real truth is. And I get this hunger from every kind of people you can imagine - atheists, voodooists, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, wiccans - all different kinds of believers. There are none totally satisfied with what they hope is the truth. They feel there is more truth than what they are learning and receiving - and indeed, thatís true.

You know, the word salvation - the Christians have got it right and wrong. Salvation: they believe that by asking the Pale One, Christ, into their life, they will be saved. This is true, but itís not the total truth.

Salvation starts the minute - if youíre serious, understand, not just trying to save your rear, but serious - salvation starts the instant Christ comes into you. Salvation, although you will not find it in a concordance [reference book of biblical passages], to my knowledge, you wonít find it in the Bible, I know that, but you will find it true in your own heart.

Salvation starts instantly. And the word in your own heart, if youíre serious about seeking salvation, seeking help, you will find that the word salvation means the ability to be a free thinker.

Christ said: ďIíve come to give life, and give it abundantly.Ē Most people think abundance means money. And this is a falsehood.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: I am pretty broke. And yet, I have an abundant life. I get to talk WITH horses, with trees, with people, with planetary people from other places. I am rich in spirit. And yet, I am so poor because thereís got to be a lot more than I know. My gosh, Iíve got just over $2 in my pocket, and yes, Iíd like to have over $2,000 in my pocket, but nevertheless, that doesnít stop me from going out and seeing God in all things, and being aware that all things are aware of One Creator. And getting to share my love of Him, with their love of Him, be it a limb, a leaf, a raindrop, whatever.

And boy, you talk about abundant life! You people are stuck running around talking to each other, and thereís a lot more out there with a lot more love than another man or woman, believe me.

Gail Cortright: Yeah, thatís for sure.

Red Elk: Itís very limited.

Rick Martin: Yes. Well, I think that is one of the main problems of the so-called Christian community - limited thinking.

Red Elk: The main problem with the community called human beings of Earth is that! Donít limit it to Christians, alone.

It is ALL, including ourselves, you, you, and I. The world of ďcansĒ and the world of ďcant'sĒ. If you canít do something - the word canít, is it negative or positive? Is it a negative word or a positive word?

Rick Martin: Itís a negative word.

Red Elk: It is not. It is a positive. You are positive.

Rick Martin: You are positive that you canít do it. (Laughter)

Red Elk: You understand? There is no negative. And when you can turn that positive canít, to a positive can, as we in medicine have learned, you will be able to levitate and go downtown with no gas. You will be able to shut your eyes, envision where you want to go - safely, if youíve got half a brain; first check where you want to go and make sure itís safe to go there - and teleport yourself.

This is all in Scriptures. One person teleported; it is in Scriptures. Christ walked on water? NO! He actually flew on the water. This is all in Scriptures. ďThe things Iíve done, you can do also, even moreso, for I am with you.Ē Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water, too - until he realized that was a canít.

Rick Martin: (Laughter)

Red Elk: You understand what I mean?

Rick Martin: Yes, I do.

Red Elk: We have such great abilities! We are limited to only three things; human kind, on any planet, are limited to only three things: (1) We cannot be the Creator, i.e. God, but we can be Godly; (2) we cannot be Lucifer - and a misnomer for him is Satan. You say that, and you mean Lucifer; itís not true.

Rick Martin: Satan is a different being, isnít he?

Red Elk: Right, heís the number-two man. But when you say Satan, youíre thinking Lucifer, automatically.

(2) You cannot be Satan, but you can be satanic; (3) you cannot be Christ, but you can be Christ-like.

Anything beyond those three that you cannot be, YOU CAN DO! I teach this. And I demonstrate it, at times.

Just this last week I was talking about invisibility - as I became almost totally invisible to the two I was teaching. They could see right through me, the chair I was sitting in. I didnít want to go all the way. I gave them enough to let them know that I know what Iím talking about.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: Iíve had people come from, well, one from Florida, two from Texas, one coming from Alaska, and many within driving range. Iíve taught them how to actually go into a tree, and afterwards, go and speak WITH trees, bushes, plants - speak with, not to. And they were amazed. Some came back crying.

All came back just awed, that the stiff wooden tree they call alive is not a piece of wood, but a thinking being, that takes steps slowly, over the centuries; sends up shoots, or sends a part of itself through a seed in a birdís belly. And as it dies - not the bird, but the tree - a few feet, or inches, or a mile down the road, it grows. They take steps. These are people, tree people, bug people, horse people, four-legged people, feathered people, cloud people, mountain people.

They donít have a soul like you or me; they donít need it. They do no wrong. They do have a Heaven.

But this misnomer about animals having souls - bull - they donít need it. They are doing right. Do they have the decision to do right or wrong? Yes, they do. But they donít have a soul that tells them ďyou are doing wrongĒ or ďyou are doing rightĒ. In general, a lion eating a man is doing what the lion has been ordered to do - eat, drink, and be merry.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: Be a part of the ecology.

Gail Cortright: Does that mean that we have a soul because we have free will?

Red Elk: We are the only ones in all Creation, all planets - any human of any planet are the only ones who are soul bearers. We are given the great two gifts:

(1) the gift of self-will, and

(2) the gift to be as god, but in little g form.

Rick Martin: Co-creator?

Red Elk: No, absolutely not. There is no co-creator. You donít co-create for the God.

[Editorís note: It appears here that Red Elk misunderstood the semantics of Rickís question. Rickís definition of co-creating - as would be the same definition all of us would agree with - is identical to the #2 gift to humankind that Red Elk just mentioned above. Those of you familiar with the spiritual messages long shared within these pages from Higher Teachers are already well aware of the finer points which differentiate the ďlittle gĒ from the ďbig GĒ activities as we grow and evolve in Awareness and Balance.

Perhaps Red Elk is reacting to the arrogant misunderstandings long circulating around within New Age psychobabble, questions which he may often need to address in his teaching duties.]

Here, let me tell you a story that will explain this.

A scientist went to God and said: ďGod, we donít need you anymore.Ē

And He said: ďWhat do you mean?Ē

And the scientist says: ďWell, with our technology, weíve learned to clone people, grow parts and stuff. We donít need you anymore.Ē

And Creator said: ďCan you make man?Ē

And the scientist thought for a little while, and he said: ďWell, we havenít, but we could make man. Iím pretty sure of it.Ē

And God says: ďAlright, you go and make a man. And when youíve made that man, you come back to me.Ē

And the scientist said: ďOk.Ē And then turns around, takes a few steps, reaches down, grabs some dirt in his hand, heads off, and God says: ďWoah, woah, woah, wait a minute, wait a minute!Ē

And the scientist turns around and says: ďWhat?Ē

And God says: ďGet your own dirt.Ē

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: Co-creation - my brother, there is nothing that you can create that has not been created somewhere by the Creator.

We say: ďWe created a car.Ē

He says: ďYouíve realigned the minerals and things needed for the car.Ē

Gail/Rick: Thatís right.

Red Elk: We say: ďWeíve made a toilet.Ē

He says: ďI made the materials; you just realigned it.Ē

Rick Martin: Letís get back to talking about the Real Rapture versus the False Rapture.

Red Elk: The True Rapture.

Rick Martin: How will people know the difference?

Red Elk: It is NOT going to come before the troubles. It will come probably more towards the end of the troubles, Armageddon. And, at that time, those few who have not been hunted, and managed to survive, will be taken up and they WILL KNOW CHRIST IS COMING.

And there will only be, I believe, two left. And those will be the two - it might be three, I might be mistaken, but Iím pretty sure itís two - last prophets who give all the world a hard time, all the world, creating droughts and all kinds of trouble at their beck-and-call. And they will be feared, mightily, by everybody on this planet, except each other. All the other Christians - real, true Christians - are gone, or even those who have gone up in the First Rapture, thinking themselves Christians, and probably are, theyíre gone. The only ones left are two people, or three; I canít recall. And, eventually, they are killed.

TV sets, everything, they throw a huge, huge world party for three days, day and night, looking at these rotting, ripped bodies, not disturbed from where they fell. And at the end of that third day - into the fourth, maybe; Iím not dead sure - they will sit up - cut, bruised, kicked, ripped. Look at the crowd, the TV sets, the newspaper men, all the great leaders who have come to drink over their bodies - and they will be totally alive, just as Christ was, and they will slowly be taken up into the Heavens. And thatís when all hell breaks loose. Thatís when Armageddon will be.

Rick Martin: And that will be within our lifetime?

Red Elk: Probably, I donít know. How old are you.

Rick Martin: 49

Red Elk: Probably, if you live a normal lifetime. It might be within my lifetime. It will definitely be within my daughterís and my grandchildrenís. I think all of this is going to be within - donít quote, because Iím never given a time - 25 years is a very safe over-estimate of when I think this will take place.

Rick Martin: Letís again talk about the False Rapture, because it sounds like people should be alert to such a thing. There is a saying in the Bible, to the effect that even the elect will almost be fooled, or something like that. Is that referring to the False Rapture, do you think?

Red Elk: Thatís part of it, but not all of it.
The AntiChrist, Lucifer in human body, will con so many - that is a major part that Scripture is speaking of. Itís part of the False Rapture; itís part of what is actually going to take place; itís part of many, many things.

The Scripture, we love it - medicine people, good medicine people, each of us have a minimum of three different Bibles, different types, King James, etc. I have five; some I know have 7.

All but me will never admit that they are Christian. I mean all of them but me. And I have no problem because the word Christian means ďChrist followerĒ.

But when you say Christian, all kinds of red flags fly up, and who can blame them. The way the Christians are today, itís just a bunch of traditionalists with their nose in the wrong place. But, a Christ follower does not have that same connotation; no red flags fly up. Itís easy to call yourself a Christ follower and be it.

It takes time to learn, but itís very easy, because what is Christ? First off, what is God? Many names for God, many names, in Scriptures alone many names. But they all say that God is love, agape love, unconditional pure love. And if God is love, and Christ is God who came on Earth as a human being only - no godliness any more than you or me - then that was still love on this Earth. And if Iím a Christ follower, what am I? Iím someone who follows the way of love, of purity, and I fall short. But I keep trying; I keep wanting; I keep hungering.

So, Christ follower? Hmmm: love follower. If youíre Buddhist, and love, you too are a Christ follower, i.e., a love follower. If you are a voodooist, and love, and do things out of compassion and caring, not for rewards, thatís Christ love, thatís Love. This fear-forcing of Christ into your life or youíre going to hell is a bunch of bull. Itís LOVE IN YOUR LIFE, or you just might strike that lower place.


Thatís the truth of it.

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