Testimony of British Police Officer Alan Godfrey (retired)

September 2000

Officer Alan Godfrey is a retired police officer who served in the West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police in England from 1975 to 1984. On November 28th 1980, he and five other officers witnessed a UFO. He saw a diamond shaped object about 75 feet away hovering just five feet above the ground and he estimates it to be about 20 feet wide and about 14 feet tall. The bottom half appeared to be rotating and the top was stationary and it did not make any noise. Months after reporting this incident, he started being harassed. He was transferred 50 miles away and was eventually barred from entering his own police station. Contraband drugs were placed in his locker.

I … was in a police patrol car heading toward Burnleigh, on the A646. I looked up the main road which I was traveling on, and I saw approximately 150 yards up in front of me an object. My first reaction was that it was a double-decker bus. Nevertheless, I headed toward this object. As I got close to it- within about 25 yards of the object- and what I saw quite baffled me.

I thought one of these hot air balloons had come down. Then I thought, it’s five in the morning. Then I realized that this object was actually hovering off the ground; as I sat in the police car I could actually see under the object. It was hovering about five feet off the ground. The span of it was taking much of the road up, so it was about 20 feet wide, because the road’s pretty narrow just there. And over the top I could see the road lamps, so I’m estimating the height of the object was about 14 feet.

I sat about 25 yards away looking at it. I put on the patrol car’s blue lights, headlights, hazard lights, anything you can think of. This was totally blocking the road. It was diamond in shape. It appeared to be in two halves joined together. The bottom half appeared to be rotating, the top half looked like it was stationary, and it also I thought it had dark windows or panels that went all the way around.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. The bushes and the trees that lined the road were shaking very, very violently, as though there was a strong wind blowing but my car was apparently stationary. I didn’t feel any vibrations in the car, I didn’t hear any noise, it wasn’t making any noise, not that I could hear…

It’s totally nothing like an aircraft. You see, aircraft fly, don’t they, unless you’re a jump jet. This thing was actually hovering and it was moving and I suppose it comes in the classic UFO, unidentified flying object, status.

As time went on and I became aware of the other police officers’ sightings, it was a great relief to me. You can’t imagine what a great relief that was to me, because you can understand being a policeman and what my colleagues’ reactions within that small community might have been…

There was a form, believe this or believe it not, actually in our police station, on how to report a UFO sighting to the Ministry of Defense…

I was absolutely amazed at what happened after that. My life just turned upside down in an instant. From being a happy go lucky chap, within a space of six months I was put through hell and turned into one of the most horrible persons you could ever imagine coming across. Purely through harassment, stress, victimization, you name it, I had it…


Testimony of Mr. Gordon Creighton, Former British Foreign Service Official

September 2000

Mr. Creighton spent many years in the British Foreign Service. He spent 10 years in China and in 1941 he saw a UFO while at the Embassy. In broad daylight he saw a disc-shaped, silent UFO with a blue white light on top flying very fast. In 1953 he spent some time with the Military Defense in Whitehall and worked on the floor underneath a department, Air Technical, dealing with UFO’s. He says that a UFO landed on the estate of Lord Mountbatten in the south of England near Southampton.

…We now know that Stalin was quicker off the start than the Americans were. Stalin became aware, at a very early date, in ‘47, after the UFO crashed in New Mexico. Stalin was collecting reports from all over the place. And, one day he called in their top astronomer and showed him all these reports. And, Stalin said to him, sit down there, look at that, and what do you think about it? And, apparently he said, well, can I take it home and look at it? Stalin said, no, you are going to sit here, in the Kremlin, until I get your answer. So, apparently he gave him the answer. He said, yes, it’s not of this world. It is not of this Earth, it’s extraterrestrial…

I asked J. Allen Hynek, my good friend, what do you think caused all these UFO events to start? Assuming they’ve always been there, but, what caused this great interest after ‘47? And, I remember he thought for a moment and he said, well, obviously, the atom bomb. If you think of, if you accept the multi-dimensional theory, it is highly likely that we’ve done a hell of a lot of damage. In some areas we might have done even more damage there than we did here. And, if you kick a beehive, you shouldn’t be surprised if bees come out and look at you. And if you’ve hurt them they might even sting you. And, so, my answer is that this is an enormously complicated problem.

If he man carries on as he is, he is going to destroy himself. Man could have survived forever with bows and arrows. He’s not going to exist forever with this present technology. One or the other is going.

I am certain that measures have been taken by agencies to terminate people who appear to be inconvenient or troublesome through knowing too much…

Kennedy may have been engaged in a bit of a struggle with the CIA in trying to get more information on the UFO subject. And, the story goes, that he might have been thinking that he ought to take it up with the Russians. Now, if he were thinking of taking it up with the Russians, the CIA may have thought this was a premature and very dangerous thing to do, and that might account for his termination…


Testimony of Sergeant Karl Wolfe, US Air Force

September 2000

Karl Wolfe was in the Air Force for 4½ years beginning in January 1964. He had a top secret crypto clearance and worked with the tactical air command at Langley AFB in Virginia. While working at a NSA facility he was shown photographs taken by the Lunar Orbiter of the moon that showed detailed artificial structures. These photos were taken prior to the Apollo landing in 1969.

So I was asked to go over to this facility on Langley Air Force Base, where the NSA was bringing in the information from the lunar orbiter … As I walked in, there were people from other countries, a lot of foreign people from other countries in civilian clothes, with interpreters with them, with security badges hanging around their neck. …

And they were very quiet, very reserved, and there was a very peculiar pall hanging over them. They had a very concerned demeanor…

We walked over to one side of the lab and he said, by the way, we’ve discovered a base on the backside of the moon. I said, whose? What do you mean, whose? He said, yes, we’ve discovered a base on the backside of the moon. And at that point I became frightened and I was a little terrified, thinking to myself that if anybody walks in the room now, I know we’re in jeopardy, we’re in trouble, because he shouldn’t be giving me this information.

I was fascinated by it, but I also knew that he was overstepping a boundary that he shouldn’t. Then he pulled out one of these mosaics and showed this base on the moon, which had geometric shapes- there were towers, there were spherical buildings, there were very tall towers and things that looked somewhat like radar dishes but they were large structures…

This fellow and I were the same rank, I think he was very distressed. He had the same pallor and demeanor as the scientists outside the room, they were just as concerned as he was. And he needed to discuss it with somebody…

Some of the structures are half a mile in size. So they’re huge structures. And they’re all different sized structures in different photographs. Some of the shapes, as I said, were – some of the buildings were very tall, thin structures. I don’t know how tall they were but they must be very tall. They were angular shots with shadows. There were spherical and domed buildings that were very large. They stood out very clearly, they were large objects. It’s interesting because I tried to relate them in my own mind to structures here on Earth, and they don’t compare to anything that you see here in scale and structure…

I didn’t want to look at it any longer than that, because I felt that my life was in jeopardy. Do you understand what I’m saying? I would have loved to have looked at it longer, I would have loved to have had copies. I would love to have said more about it, discussed it more, but I knew I couldn’t. I knew the young fellow who was sharing this was really, really overstepping his bounds at that point.

I felt that he just needed somebody to talk to. He hadn’t discussed it, couldn’t discuss it, and he wasn’t doing it for any ulterior motive other than the fact that I think he had the weight of this thing on him and it was distressing to him…

I knew that I couldn’t go anyplace for at least five years without telling the State Department where I was, after I left the military.

[See the testimony of Merle Shane McDow and others who had similar restrictions. SG]

Any time I traveled I had to notify and get permission, even in the United States. They had to know where I was all the time. As an example, if we went to Vietnam there was always someone there with us, with a gun, ready to annihilate us basically if we should fall into the hands of the enemy. They didn’t want the enemy to get us; we would be killed instead.

So we knew we were operating under these sort of conditions. Your life was in jeopardy all the time, should you fall into the wrong hands. So we were aware of that. I was told when I left that I would be investigated on a regular basis to make sure that I wasn’t involved in any peculiar activities that didn’t suit the government’s needs. …


Testimony of Donna Hare

November 2000

Donna Hare had a secret clearance while working for NASA contractor, Philco Ford. She testifies that she was shown a photo of a picture with a distinct UFO. Her colleague explained that it was his job to airbrush such evidence of UFOs out of photographs before they were released to the public. She also heard information from other Johnson Space Center employees that some astronauts had seen extraterrestrial craft and that when some of them wanted to speak out about this they were threatened.

My name is Donna Hare. During ‘70 and ‘71 I worked in Building 8 of NASA for a contractor, Philco Ford. They changed their name several times. Over the years, I worked in the photo lab and in different areas of the company on and offsite.

During the ‘70’s, I don’t know the exact date, I walked into the photo lab, into one of the restricted areas- I did have a secret clearance. I walked into a restricted area which was not my company- it was the NASA photo lab. And there they developed the film from the moon and satellite pictures, everything that’s done by NASA.

One of the gentlemen I had been friends with and I still talk to occasionally pointed my attention to one area of this mosaic. It was one panel of a mosaic which are several panels put together to form a larger picture. I believe they were satellite pictures but I’m not sure. They were aerial looking down. And I said, this is really interesting.

He explained everything. And then, with a smile on his face he said, look over there. And I looked. And in one of the photo panels I saw a round white dot. And at the time it was very crisp, very sharp lines on it. And I said to him what is that? Is that a dot on the emulsion? And then he’s grinning and he says dots on the emulsion don’t leave round shadows on the ground. And there was a round shadow at the correct angle with the sun shining on the trees. I looked at him and I was pretty startled because I had worked out there several years and had never seen anything like this, never heard of anything like this. And I said, is this a UFO? And he’s smiling at me and he says, I can’t tell you that. I can’t tell you that. What I knew he meant was, it was [a UFO] but he couldn’t tell me. So I said, what are you going to do with this information? And he said, well, we always have to airbrush them out before we sell them to the public. And I was just amazed that they had a protocol in place for getting rid of UFO pictures on these things…

He said that some [of the astronauts] who wanted to talk were threatened. They’d signed papers not to talk. They would have their retirements taken away. I was just overwhelmed with that piece of information so I started asking questions. Certain people that I knew were key people in the organization so I’d take them away from the site. We’d go to lunch and I’d talk to them. And alone they would tell me things and then swear if I ever said they said it, they would say I was lying. One gentleman that I knew very well was in quarantine with the astronauts. He said, just about every one of them has seen things when they went to the moon. In fact, one said that craft were on the moon at the time of the landing. But this man has disappeared off the face of the Earth. I’ve tried to find him but I only have his name. I’ve given it to SG.

I also met a security guard that was forced to burn a lot of UFO pictures. He came into my office and he was very frightened. He said, Donna, I heard you were interested in this subject. He said, I used to work out there. And one day some soldiers came in fatigues and had me burn pictures. He said that he was burning them and he was forced not to look at them. But he was tempted. He looked at one of them and it was a UFO on the ground. Shortly thereafter he was hit in the head with a gun butt and he still had a scar on his forehead. Now, this gentleman was terrified. He was scared out of his mind. And he also said that in the picture was a UFO with little bumps on it. It looked like it had just landed…

There was a point in time when I had some people come out and tell me I shouldn’t talk about this. They didn’t threaten to kill me but I got the message I shouldn’t talk about it. But I’d already talked about it so much it didn’t really matter anymore. And like I said at the [1997] congressional briefings, I really started feeling like this topic was like sex. You know, everybody knew about it but nobody talked about in mixed company. I’m waiting to tell more whenever there’s a congressional hearing where I could be protected. I trust SG. I feel he’s done everything he said he would do as far as protection, secrecy of what I give him, for now. I want it to come out when it’s necessary and proper and can do some good. I don’t want people going around that are trying to get rid of these people or hurting them or challenging them or making them so frightened they move away-like this one particular man I know of who has just disappeared off the face of the Earth. This one man, he has disappeared. I just don’t want that.

One of the things that I’m upset about is that good people are forced to do illegal things. And I believe that this information should be given to the American [people].


Testimony of Mr. John Maynard, Defense Intelligence Agency (ret.)

October 2000

John Maynard was a military intelligence analyst for the Defense Intelligence Agency. In the course of his 21-year career he saw evidence of the military’s interest in UFOs in a variety of ways: electronic communications which did not originate from Earth; military photos of UFOs. While at the DIA, he became familiar with the compartmentalization process of maintaining secrecy. He saw spy plane photos with clear UFOs in them

JM: John Maynard   SG: Dr. Steven Greer

JM: My name’s John Maynard. I’m a retired military intelligence analyst and retired in 1980. I was in the military for 21 years and started off with the Army Intelligence Security Agency as an analyst. I went on from there to work for several different organizations with the military, and ended up with the DIA at the end of my career, as an administrator in charge of most of the documents for the Requirements and Evaluation division.

As far as being aware of what was in the intelligence world regarding UFOs and Extraterrestrials, this came early on in my career in the early 1960s. Some of the radio communications that I was analyzing for the Army Security Agency were a little bit more than just the normal type of traffic. I think at that point when I became too curious is when they decided to let me go from that position.

I went on from there to investigate different aspects of what was going on with UFOs. When I got to Europe I was approached by a few of the counterintelligence people there that had information on my background as far as analysis goes. I became involved in looking at where people were moving drugs back and forth, as far as the military was concerned, and at the same time, I ran across the UFO problems that people were having — particularly sightings in Europe. I did preliminary investigations for these people and turned reports in on what people were saying; what was going on.

But getting back to my initial exposure to UFOs — — that was connected to work in Okinawa, where we were analyzing traffic patterns [electronic communications] of the Chinese at that particular time. Every once in a while, I would run across an anomaly that wasn’t really within the pattern of the type of traffic that would be known within our military network.

When I questioned this, I would always be pushed off to the side, and they would say, "Well, you don’t have to worry about things like that." But I just couldn’t let it go — I still don’t. I pursue it to the ninth degree, without getting myself in trouble. But I did get in trouble that time. I found out that there was more to these communications than was normal, and that they were not basically Earthbound [were not coming from Earth].

And the further we dug into it, the more you noticed that it didn’t belong with the normal traffic that was being broadcast. I couldn’t trace any particular origin, and that’s what got me really interested in where this was coming from. Knowing a few friends that worked in the communications department, I sought their guidance on which way it was going. I guess that was my downfall, because they weren’t quite as good friends as I thought they were.

SG: And what did you learn from that?

JM: Basically, that the communications really weren’t coming from within China itself — they were coming from another location, but they would not really divulge it. One of my friends just kind of pointed to me off at the side and threw his thumb up in the air. And I said, ‘Is that a good sign or not?’ And he said, "No." And in private, very private talks, he admitted that they were not Earthbound signals.

We didn’t really have a space program that would be moving that kind of traffic, nor did we have the communications systems and satellites at that particular time that would … I’m talking about the late 1950s, early 1960s. So as far as timeframe goes, it had to be something else besides just us. Sputnik hadn’t been up that long and neither had the American satellites.

I think that that was really my downfall — I realized it had to be extraterrestrial — so they found a way to get rid of me and they did it very well.

So anyway, while in Europe I researched these UFO reports, and we got quite a bit of information about the sightings. We would get drawings of what the vehicles looked like, whether they landed or not, whether they saw any people with them — extraterrestrials, things like that. And, it just made an exciting career for the next two years while I was over there.

SG: And for whom were you making these reports during this time?

JM: Basically they were going to the CIA, some to the DIA, and some to the Air Force, OSI — Office of Special Intelligence. What they were using the information for, I never learned.

There are several different projects that I ran across later in my years when I was in Turkey in the mid-1970s — 76, 77, [and] early 78, when I left. I was an administrator and worked for NATO, Land Southeast Headquarters.

I inquired with a couple of my Turkish military friends, and finally got one general to actually admit that there was UFO activity in this certain area of Turkey. He said, "Oh yeah, it’s a great area if you want to see UFOs, I’ll take you out there some time."

Once, while in the Pentagon, I was sent to try and get some files from Colonel Corso, and he made a comment that was really funny at that particular point. I didn’t really connect it with anything until later. He says, "You have no idea at all what we’re about, do you?" And I told him, ‘No, sir, I don’t.’ He said, "Well, some day the technology will be out there that has been totally back engineered." It went right over my head at that particular point, but I just told him yes, sir, and off I went like a good little private, where I was supposed to go. I didn’t tell anybody what he had told me. I just kept it in my mind. I reported back to my superiors who had sent me, that Colonel Corso promptly just dismissed me from his office and I just left it at that.

That happens all the time in the Pentagon. Materials are kept very tightly by the owners. Years later, while at the DIA, I saw some documents that pertained to extraterrestrials. They were code-worded. A normal person reading it may not catch it — it would go right on beyond them. These were top secret documents. I imagine most of them are still classified. A lot of them pertained to Salt 1 and Salt 2 — the strategic arms limitation treaties with Russia.

I also saw pictures of UFOs from — I believe it was called — the National Intelligence Photographic Center [NIPC]. Once in a while an anomaly would show up on the pictures that didn’t belong there — a round object, a triangular object. They were not markings put on the photograph that indicated some place or anything like that. These were above ground. These anomalies came up in certain photographs and things that we received at our office at DIA and, we always thought they were interesting. They came from the NIPC, which I believe was the National Intelligence Photographic Center over on Hayes Street right there in Arlington.

You knew that they were not part of something that was placed on the photograph, like a marker. It was not a normal type of object, particularly the oblong ones or the circles or the triangular ones — the triangles were kind of funny, with a rounded corner on the tail end of it. These were taken most generally with the Talent Keyhole Satellites, and they would show these objects — these UFOs in them. They would be objects from the TK11, TK12 shots that were taken, that showed the anomalies. Sometimes you could actually track it photograph by photograph as it moved across the [sky] — you knew that it moved.

I had a rather interesting incident, not in an organization that I belong to as far as the DIA, but it was an office put within my area at DIA. Since it was in my area of security, I received the code name to go in there and to look at the office. It was called Omni Project…It dealt with radar satellites. I was talking with one of the sergeants over there in a little show room they had, and I noticed the satellite’s positioning. I said, "Now this is supposed to be a system that tracks radar anomalies on Earth, right?" He says, "Yep, that’s what it does." So I ask, "Then why are half of them pointed towards outer space, towards the moon, towards areas that are just blank space?" I said, "At least half of those satellites that you got up there aren’t looking at Earth — well what are they looking for?" He says, "Well you got to have a need to know to know about that." I said, "I see, in other words, who’s coming?" And he says, "We don’t know." I just thought it rather odd that they were tracking stuff from outer space.

I also did work with the Camp David accords and assigning the SR-71s, the Blackbird, to map the Sinai, and there were several reports at that particular time that the Blackbird had been accompanied by something that wasn’t from this Earth. The photos of the Sinai would show anomalies that weren’t part of the terrain, weren’t part of the people, weren’t part of the atmosphere.

In Intelligence, compartmentalization is probably the whole thing. There is a real big misnomer out here in the civilian world about classification. There are basically three classifications: confidential, secret, and top secret. And that’s it. It doesn’t go any higher than top secret. They come up and they call about umbra and they call about this one, Omni. They called about TK, Talent Keyhole and other projects like that. Well, people have to realize that I had Eumbra documents that were only secret, not just top secret. It was not the same.

I’ll get into the background of what Intelligence [does], how they break things down: they keep pretty much each organization an island unto itself. You don’t have cross-departmentalization a lot within the programs. Let’s say I have an umbra clearance. Well, people say that’s so high above top secret. No, it’s not. It’s a compartment — it is strictly a compartment — it’s not more. Top secret is as high as you go. Ultra is another compartment. That’s something entirely different and has to do basically with the President. So you can’t fool around with it. So that’s it. You have islands unto yourself. Each one does [its] own particular type of analysis.

The one that I worked for was called Requirements and Evaluations, at the DIA. We were the ones that made the determination to fly the birds out of Wallops Island or somewhere else — to go up and put a satellite up.

We were DC3. There was a DC4, and there was a DC5. I would have to really dig back into my background papers to give you exact names for each one — that’s how compartmentalized they become.

One of them did strictly analysis — that’s all they did, and they would feed it to us in Requirements. But, we didn’t really see all of what they did, and didn’t see all the material they did. They gave us the finished product, and we would look at the finished product and make our determinations of what we were going to do from there. That’s basically the way it is. Omni Project, which was the radar satellite — it was an island unto itself. If you didn’t have an Omni stamp on your badge, you didn’t get into their office — period, end of subject. Same thing with people with TK or many other things — Umbra, Ultra — same right on down the line.

The NRO, National Reconnaissance Office, is basically run by the Air Force. The Reconnaissance Office, from my understanding from people that I’ve had contacts with since I retired, has taken on a lot more responsibility — particularly towards the UFO and extraterrestrial activities.

You could say that they picked up where Blue Book dropped off. Blue Book was basically an Air Force project for themselves, but those activities finally fell under the purview of the National Reconnaissance Office.

Now it is basically a joint service, but it is run by the Air Force and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They have a very ominous job. Not too much is ever really known about exactly what they do, but they’re running the successor to the SR-71, which is supposed to be a Delta-type aircraft capable of [flying from] Los Angeles to London in about 18 minutes — so it goes near space. It’s pretty quick. Satellite imagery has pretty much gone to the background. You’ve still got Talent Keyhole. You’ve still got Omni. They’ve got a couple of others up there now that I don’t even know the code names for anymore, but most of the Reconnaissance is done by aircraft.

As far as anti gravity, they’ve been working on it for a long, long time — I know that — but basically what I’ve seen is the magnetic pulse engine. It has a very unique signature when it flies. It has normal type fuel, but it also has a magnetic pulse set up to it. The signature is like a soap-on-a-rope-type of contrail behind it.

A government is widespread, as everybody knows. It’s into everybody’s pockets and everybody’s life all over the place. The same thing holds true for the UFO/extraterrestrial subject, but very, very few people really [have] the full knowledge of what’s going on. It’s held very tightly within black covert operations. If you want to take a good close look at some of the background on it, you can go to civilian organizations outside of NSA, which are direct contractors for NSA — like Drydon Industries. Why are they flying the SR-71 on Reconnaissance using Navy pilots? What are they looking at? What is NSA looking at, when you think about that? Why are they doing these particular things? They are not using it for training, that’s for one thing.

Within the organization at the executive level, I would dare say that the National Security Advisor, when he comes on board, is fairly well treated as in-the-know from the top at NSA.

His knowledge is still limited, because he’s only an appointee, and at that particular point, a new appointee at the CIA is the same way. They will have knowledge, but very limited knowledge. Only some people within the black covert areas will have very specific information about what’s going on.

But, not very much is known about the NRO — it’s one of those organizations that’s so low profile...Any time the question comes up, it’s strictly an entity that does reconnaissance in the Air Force, period. It leaves a lot of questions. But as far as UFO and intelligence and extraterrestrial matters go, it’s right at the top — and I would say that the President has limited knowledge of it. I know Carter did not have any knowledge whatsoever. And I worked right there with the organization, President Carter’s organization. They kept it pretty secret.

SG: Why do you think it’s being kept so secret?

JM: I think that they made a mistake at Roswell. Rather than admitting it, they covered it, and they covered it because UFO and extraterrestrial activity has been going on a lot longer than this government will admit. I thought it was comical the way Bush — George W. — threw the ball into Cheney’s court saying that, of anybody who would probably know more about this than anybody else, it would be Cheney. He has some very interesting knowledge…

Of corporations involved in this matter, Atlantic Research Corporation is one of the big ones. It’s not very often heard about. It’s an insider beltway bandit, if you want to call it that — very low profile — mostly has all of its work done within Intelligence. TRW, Johnson Controls, Honeywell: all of them at some point or another became involved with the Intelligence field. Certain works, activities were contracted out to them. Atlantic Research was one of them — way back. These are entities that were created out of people in the Pentagon to become a "beltway bandit": [they] received projects, grants, and monies to do certain projects that were so highly classified and compartmentalized that you know only about four people would know what was going on. So it was that tightly controlled.

You would have to look at corporations that were started by people who were retired from the military. Bobby Inman and his little oversight group out there in California [SAIC], for example. Some other things like that. So we would ask the question, who really is controlling JPL? Why was JPL started? Others: Ames Laboratories, Fort Detrick. Some very interesting things come out of Fort Detrick. And Harry Diamond Laboratories…been around for a long, long time. Don’t hear much about them, because they’re all basically military contracted, and they are in a particular specialty.

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen any back engineering notes — how they do it and stuff like that. Very unique. You can get an engineer to tell you how they do it, and the specific notes that you do. You take it forward from somebody’s notes, and you can build the item — just from the back engineering notes. Got to take it apart to find out how it works.

I can think of some stuff that we’ve gotten out of Roswell. There was also a crash up in Canada in the mid-50s that was kept very, very hush, hush. There were definitely some engineering projects dealing with those things.

About weapons and space: I think that we can go back to a comment that was made by one of the astronauts when he stepped on the moon. It was the day after they got there, and it was the original flight, and he says, ‘"You’re right, they’re already here." It got out on the airwaves. I know several people who recorded it. But the remark was very unique, because it was quickly taken out of all other tapes that were public broadcast. Weapons in space is still a big enigma. Black covert operations have always been trying to do something like that, basically. Star Wars was a big boondoggle. Most of it didn’t exist. It was just all on paper. Laser weapons…well, that’s a whole different story. There are brand new leaps and bounds that have been made in the laser field. Not only cutting, but pulsed lasers that basically destroys anything it hits.

SG: Do you think then that we have weapons in space?

JM: I’m sure we have weapons in space. There is probably no doubt in my mind about it. They were trying to develop them long before Star Wars became an entity, back in the late 60s, early 70s.

Nixon wanted something along that line to produce weapons for space. The project started then. (Not Nixon per se, the individual himself, but in his administration.) People wanted it done. There was a fear then of something out there. That was when the first stories came out about the asteroids impacting the Earth, and it really didn’t become a heavy project until very recently, but apparently we had some rather close calls back then — a — lot closer than what they call a close call today. So it became a very big concern — asteroids, UFOs, people coming from other places.

[See the testimony of Dr. Carol Rosin.]

Concepts were there. Ideas were there. Paranoia was also there within the government. At certain levels you could feel it. You knew it was happening. Would they tell the truth about it? I doubt it. Maybe some year. Maybe your project will tell them. Britain and the United States and Canada were the biggest party to these secrets. They got the Australians involved with it later on.

The media is very one-sided when it comes to reporting. They don’t step on the other person’s toes when it comes to things that would be controversial — like UFOs and extraterrestrials. There have been too many sightings that have hit the mainstream media, but they die very quickly. Why do they die? There was more interest going on for the media to follow up on, but they just flat refuse to do it. Why did they? Were they pulled by strings from behind? I don’t know. I can’t say. And they’re not saying either…

It goes right back to the same thing with these beltway bandits. Can you get them to say something? No. That’s where their bread and butter is. They’re not going to step on their own toes, punch themselves in the face.

The truth is they have hidden things like UFOs and extraterrestrial information from us for years — not just the current era, but back before the 1900s. So it’s there. It’s about time for them to just come forward and say, hey, this is it.


Testimony of Mr. Harland Bentley

August 2000

Mr. Bentley has been involved in working on classified projects with several Government agencies including NASA and the DOE. He has a BS-EE degree and extensive training in nuclear engineering. Mr. Bentley recounts a story of personally witnessing a UFO crash at a Nike Ajax Missile Facility in Maryland and viewing a group of UFO’s on radar take off at a calculated 17,000 miles an hour after having hovered on the ground. He also speaks of a 1967/68 incident where he overheard a conversation between Houston Control and astronauts in flight talk about avoiding a collision with a UFO spacecraft and our astronauts actually seeing living beings moving about through portals on the UFO.

In 1957 to 1959, I was outside of Olney, Maryland, just north of Washington, D.C. at a Nike Ajax Missile Facility. I was a radar operator. In May of 1958, at about 6:00 a.m. I first heard a sound that sounded like a pulsating transformer. I looked out the window and looked across the field and saw this [disc shaped] object heading toward the ground and saw it crash. It broke apart and then it took off again in flight… The largest piece that I saw was actually glowing white hot and was probably the size of a washing machine…

When the craft took off again after it crashed, it went through a grove of trees and actually sheered three, four or five inch limbs, in just one fell swoop, like a knife or a machete…

[Note the resemblance to the crash of an extraterrestrial vehicle in Peru in 1997 as recounted by Lance Cpl. John Weygandt. SG]

The real exciting part happened the next evening while I was on duty. It was approximately 10:00 or 11:00 at night and I got a call from the Gaithersburg facility saying that they had twelve to fifteen UFOs, 50-100 feet off the ground. So I asked the guy who was on the radio with me, "What do they sound like?" He took his head mike off, put it out the van window and again the pulsating sound except there were more of them. He was describing them in different shapes and so forth.

I had the radar on, the M-33 sweep radar, and right next to the ground clutter where Gaithersburg sits, we found the blip where these vehicles were. Then all of a sudden they all took off at the same time. From my radarscope, it went in one sweep. It is a thirty-three and a third RPM. To go that distance from the center out to where I got the next blip in the first sweep, at a constant velocity would have to be 17,000 miles an hour which we calculated from our analog computer…

I had another one, which I can’t say too much about. I can’t say where I was. I was at a facility in California, that is all I can say, and I was doing particular classified work. The only thing that I can say is that it was occurring at the same time that our astronauts were doing a loop around the moon and back again. On their trip to the moon itself I heard them say they had a bogey (term used for unknown target, and often specifically used to denote a UFO) coming in at 11:00.

Well, familiar with that particular term, I perked my ears up and started listening and discovered that Houston and the astronauts were talking back and forth about a collision. The astronauts asked for permission to do avoidance for a collision and Houston finally granted that permission to do that. Later the astronauts said, "It is not necessary. They are now paralleling our course" and there was a discussion as to what was paralleling that course.

It was another type of ship. There were portals there that they could see in. They could see beings of some sort. They did not describe these beings. They just took photographs. And after a while, a few thousand miles, they [the bogey] took off from the capsule that they were flying in and went away. They just said it was a saucer shaped craft. It was actually paralleling their craft. They saw movement. They saw something or somebody moving inside that ship. This happened before the lunar landing. … Then they said, "There they go." And they [the bogey] went out of sight almost immediately, from what I could gather from their conversation. This event was unedited because of where I was [a secret listening post].

It was an extremely restricted channel… There was only one gentleman there with me when this happened. He said something like, "You didn’t hear anything." And I said, "hear what?" And that was the end of that. In fact, the gentleman was very disturbed that I was even there to hear this. The astronauts were approximately halfway to the moon when this happened…


Testimony of Dr. Robert Wood, McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer

September 2000

Dr. Robert Wood worked in a senior capacity as an aerospace engineer at McDonald Douglas for his entire 43-year career. In his testimony, he states that he was involved in a specific project at McDonald Douglas to study the propulsion systems of UFOs. In addition, he confirms the existence of other projects within the aerospace industry, and gives his assessment of the fact that this subject is not only real, but is of extraterrestrial nature. He also confirms the extreme secrecy surrounding the subject.

[See Secrecy Quotes section 3.3]



Testimony of Dr. Alfred Webre, Senior Policy Analyst

August 2000

Dr. Alfred Webre holds BS and law degrees from Yale and a Masters of Education in Counseling from the University of Texas.

He was a Senior Policy Analyst at the Center for the Study of Social Policy at Stanford Research Institute. In 1977 he worked on the Carter White House Extraterrestrial Communication Project through SRI.

Its purpose was to gain knowledge on the subject then make policy recommendations. NASA director James Fletcher and the National Science Foundation were involved.

The project was prematurely and illegally terminated by the Pentagon soon after it began even though it had already been approved within the Domestic Policy Staff of the White House.

I worked on the 1977 Carter White House Extraterrestrial Communication Project…

When [Carter] entered the White House in January of 1977, I was also entering the Center for the Study of Social Policy at SRI. In the interview process I declared explicitly that I would like to do an extra-terrestrial communication project at the Center. I was brought on with that explicit agreement and I went about making inquiries as to who on the White House staff was interested in the subject matter. I contacted that person and set up appointments with a basic outline of an extra-terrestrial project.

So, this project was undertaken openly and was of a civilian nature with transparency- there were no classified aspects. It started at Stanford Research Institute in my offices…

Once a final report was issued under the proposal it would be a White House document and would come out under their agency and their policy recommendations.

NASA was one of the agencies with which we would work on a contract level. I have direct information from then NASA personnel that the proposal was at the Office of the Director, James Fletcher, who had it in his possession at the time. The National Science Foundation was also to be part of that proposal in terms of being able to work with a National Science Board and a Board of Advisors who would vet the research.

The full management staff and the research institute had signed off knowingly on the proposal at the Center for the Study of Social Policy at SRI. Tom Thomas, who was the Supervisor of the Center had signed off on it. Peter Schwartz who was, along with myself, a Senior Policy Analyst, and who was an advisor to the proposal, was fully aware of it. He is now Chairman of the Global Business Network…

This project lasted from May 1977 when the initial contacts were made with the White House until 1977 when it was terminated by intervention from the Pentagon.

The goal of the study was to fill the knowledge gap on this subject and make policy recommendations for the future…

The proposal was known and approved within the Domestic Policy Staff of the White House and was in circulation with the White House Science Advisors Office. Those were the agencies named in the proposal. It was through the White House Domestic Policy Staff, under Stewart Eisenstatt, that we had the initial contact.

I visited the Carter White House every 20 days and met with White House staff every 2-3 weeks developing the proposal to the sole- source contract stage during the period of May to September of 1977. My meetings were at the White House in the Executive Office Building with White House Staff from the Domestic Policy Staff…

I flew back from my meeting with the White House at which this final approval had been given and when I arrived back at my offices at SRI I was called back into the office of the Senior SRI Official. He was an African-American and I referred to him in my sworn affidavit as John Doe.

The other person in this preliminary meeting was Peter Schwartz who was based in the same office as myself and was an advisor to the project. The Senior SRI Official stated to me that in a few minutes a second person, who was the SRI Pentagon Liaison would be coming in.

The project was to be terminated. They had received direct communications from the Pentagon that if the study went forward, SRI’s contracts with the Pentagon would be terminated. These contracts were a substantial part of SRI’s business at the time in terms of studies, monies, missile research contracts, and other contracts. The Senior Official advised me, and I am quoting him, "To dissimulate" and to just pretend I was going along with it- implying that I would keep my job if I did so.

What happened then was that the SRI Pentagon Liaison whom I call in my sworn affidavit John Doe II came in and he stated that unless this project were terminated, SRI’s contract research with the Pentagon would be terminated. He stated then that the project was terminated, the project that had just been approved by the White House, was terminated because, and I am quoting him, "There are no UFO’s."

At that point, I vociferously objected. I recited baseline data that UFO’s did exist. It was to no avail. The Senior Official sided with the Pentagon person and the project was terminated.

To my knowledge, SRI does not have a practice- and there is no case- of their canceling a project after explicit approval by the White House. Quite the contrary, they are extremely hungry for research dollars and when the White House approves a project, meaning that it is most certainly going to be funded by the line agencies, they would lunge after it…

I felt that the whole termination of the project was, in itself, a covert operation…

Here we have a President of the United States who came to office under a pledge to open up the UFO issue; and an open study in the White House, and that was squelched…

A colleague that held a very important position at NASA, contemporaneously, has come forward and has confirmed that the administrator of NASA was reviewing this proposal and this provides corroboration…



Back to The Research of Alfred Lambremont Webre




Testimony of Denise McKenzie, former SAIC employee

March 2001

Ms. McKenzie was employed by SAIC (Science Applications International Corporation) in San Diego, a large defense contractor. In the course of her work, she realized that there were millions upon millions of dollars in contracts awarded to SAIC and in almost all cases none of these contracts appeared to have any activity associated with them. She elucidates how "black" budget monies are hidden in seemingly legitimate projects. A pattern of sexual harassment began after she brought this issue before a supervisor.

…Well, I opened up the files and there were only form letters, maybe two or three, and yet these contracts were several years old. And eve the letters that were in there were back dated several years, saying the same exact form letter: "It’s being worked on, blah, blah, blah." And it was talking about sometimes millions of dollars in contracts…

It seemed like there were all those different contracts that needed to be updated, but there was nothing to back it up. There was no activity on it, and that struck me as very odd…

I thought, "This is just the weirdest run place I have ever seen. How do they do business? How do they get these million dollar contracts when things are so disorganized and nobody seems to be doing anything" – and I thought, "Nothing seems real around here." It’s just like there’s four walls. We’re sitting in a very plush, very expensive building. I don’t have anything to do. I don’t even sharpen pencils. This is crazy. And as soon as I’m starting to do something, there is nothing even to these files.

I thought they were getting a lot of money for doing nothing, and I didn’t know where that money was going. It’s like a front, a front for something. I mean, it was like you wanted to just hide funds or push funds through…

SAIC has a very perfect situation to do any type of research they want to under the guise of anything — and call it what they want. And they definitely aren’t working alone in anything. They are what’s called a conglomerate. There is SAIC, but it’s made up of numerous individual corporations…

And since it’s privately owned corporations, the only people they would have to report to is the ones who they’re doing business with and are contracting with. And so if the people they are contracting with wish to do something that maybe isn’t in the best interests of everyone, nobody is getting to know about it. It’s all kept in-house: the funding, the financing, the contracts. There should be files. There should be documentation and a regular timeline of events on every project, which did not exist whatsoever. And if I’m working in a military division and I have access to all of the files, where was this documentation? So it made me very suspicious of where al this money was going…

[NOTE: I share this disturbing glimpse into the military/industrial contracting world to illustrate how USAPs (Unacknowledged Special Access Projects) hide money in dummy projects while the real money is diverted to super-secret projects not disclosed to Congress, the President or the American people. This is not the only witness I have spoken to who has knowledge of such schemes. In 1994, Dick D’Amato who was senior counsel for the Senate Appropriations Committee under then Chairman, Senator Byrd, personally told me that somewhere between $40 Billion and $80 billion was going into projects that they could not penetrate – even with a top-secret clearance and a Senate subpoena. He said he was sure money was going into UFO – related projects but they could not penetrate them. I remember he said, "SG, you are dealing with the Varsity Team of all black projects – good luck…"

I should also comment on the weird atmosphere and sexual abuse Ms. McKenzie describes: This is common, not rare, in such operations. As she said, it takes on an unreal feeling. Even the story of her recruiter/supervisor having a different first name and being allegedly dead years before is a common pattern. People disappear from one project, allegedly are dead, and reappear in another super-secret operation with a different name or at least a different first name, as Dr. B points out in this testimony. Essentially SAIC is one of the crown jewels of the super-secret, black project world and is connected to UFO technologies and covert funding. Former NSA head Adm. Bobby Inman is heavily involved with SAIC, it should be noted. Here again, we see the revolving door between military and corporate projects described by Dr. Rosin . After meeting with Senator Barry Goldwater in 1994, I asked the Senator to get Adm. Inman’s cooperation with disclosure. He rebuffed Senator Goldwater at that time. We hope he and others will soon come forward with the truth. SG]


Testimony of Colonel Phillip J. Corso, Sr., US Army (ret.)

[Our deepest gratitude to James Fox for sharing this interview]

Colonel Phillip Corso, Sr. was an Army intelligence officer who served on Eisenhower’s National Security Council. After his 21 year military career he served as a military analyst. Colonel Corso personally saw deceased extraterrestrials from the Roswell crash in 1947 and a UFO craft at an airbase. He had also seen UFOs travel at 4,000 miles an hour on radar. When he worked in R&D he was given fragments of extraterrestrial technologies from various crashes and his job was to seed industry with these technologies telling them they were from Earthly foreign sources.

These ET’s are another intelligence, they are ahead of us and they’ve proven it- for one simple reason – they can travel through space and we can’t. It boils down to that simple. How are you going to overcome that? We don’t know anything about that so we have to start with what we know. The little we know is the greatest gift they gave us – the extraterrestrial not the hardware.

The one craft I saw was at one of the airbases. I’m not going to say where it was but it was there and that was it. I didn’t go in it. I had a lot of information on what was inside. There was nothing I could gain by going inside and looking at it. I had the drawings of how it looked inside. I had what was in there. Really to go in it would have been curiosity and those days I didn’t have the time for curiosity.

The extraterrestrial, he’s a little different. He’s composed in a way of cells also like humans are. And the craft is really almost a biological type of structure because the extraterrestrial fits in it. Remember these cloners that made these beings made them in a way where they would fit in what they wanted to fit in. The ship itself is a biological type structure…

Now when this being comes in this world he will wear a suit -- skin-tight suit, which we found. His skin is atomically aligned and his suit is atomically aligned. That is to repel radiation and harmful affects – even cosmic radiation. Since he doesn’t breath air, the ones that come alive in this world, will have a type of helmet on them. Since he doesn’t speak, he has no vocal cords, he will have something that intensifies a transmission so he can communicate.

I’ll go through that story now. I wasn’t at Roswell in ‘47. In ‘47 I had just come back from Italy where I had been Chief of Security in Intelligence in Rome and in the Intelligence business I was trained really by the British. I was an MI-19. When I came back, I went to Fort Riley, Kansas. I was stationed there. I was an instructor at the Intelligence school and we had an aggressor force. One night I was first duty officer. First duty officer means that I was in control for that night and I checked all the guards, all security areas - I checked the whole post.

So I went to the veterinarian section and a sergeant I knew very well was the sergeant of the guards that night. I told him, "Sarge, how is everything around here?" He said, "fine Sir." I told him, "they told me to be careful, to watch this area because you have something sensitive here." He said, "you want to see it Sir?" I told him, "yeah." He said, "just go look." I knew the Master Sergeant.

I went back and there were 5 crates there, 5 or 6, but I think it was 5. I lifted one up and here’s this body floating in fluid. I looked at it for about 10-15 seconds, not much more than that, so I put it back down and said, "Sarge, get out of here now, I don’t want to get you in trouble. I’m the duty officer I can walk around here but you might get in trouble for coming back here. Come out with me." We went out and I told him, "where’d they come from Sarge?" He said, "well 5 trucks have been coming through here from New Mexico and they’re heading for Wright Patterson Air Force base."

Now in those days Route 40 was about the only cross-country route and the route that they took was Route 40 going through Fort Riley, Kansas and then to Wright Patterson Air Force. So I say, "stay away from it Sarge I don’t want you to get in any trouble." I told him, "I can walk around." So then I started to figure what was that? First, I thought it was a child because it was small, then I looked at its head and all, and this only happened in a matter of seconds, then I put the end back down. The head was different, the arms were thin, the body was gray, so right at that moment I figured I don’t know what this thing is. So in the Intelligence business I better just put it in the back of my head and wait in the future to see if I get corroboration so I can evaluate what it is. I promptly forgot about it.

Ten years later, I was down near Commando Range [sp] in New Mexico, in White Sands at the Army & Missile firing range, right near Trinity site, my headquarters. On my own radar, I started picking up items going 3,000-4,000 miles an hour in this area. I had pencil-beam radar which locked on the target and the boys told me these objects were going about 3,000 to 4,000 miles an hour.

Once I notified headquarters. They said, "forget it - we’re not interested." So I figured I won’t tell them anything anymore. Every time that would happen I would tell the boys, "bring me the tapes." All my computers had a tape, which gave the whole firing sequence and we could check it if anything went wrong. So I told them, "deliver the tapes to me, personally."

Then I left and went to Germany and I started picking up the same things in Germany - 3,000-4,000 miles per hour flying over Germany. Again, the pencil-beam radar would lock on and all the ones [UFOs] that we would lock on would break loose.

Then, I was four years at the White House and I kept getting reports there but they were just reports. I had all the clearances so I’d get them, even code reports I’d get. I did get one time a report that NSA was getting signals from space, which were not just space noise, or unscrambled, or something you couldn’t read- they were really very perfect and looked like something was guiding a real message. But we were never able to decode it. This was a very coordinated message. It wasn’t space noise or jumbo mumbo or anything like that or just noise coming.

[See the testimony of John Maynard and A.H.. SG]

It was a pattern. The evaluation was that it might be coming from outer space beings and I got that report at the White House because I had the NSA clearances and all. Then I came back and General Trudeau pulled me in. He had organized a Research & Development project from a secondary … At first, when I reported in I was a special assistant. Then he created the Foreign Technology Division about a week later and put me in charge of it. There I started getting the autopsy reports of ET’s, and I started getting other crash reports and the artifacts from the crashes. And I visited the site here [near Roswell New Mexico] a couple of times.

When I came into Research & Development, I inherited all these artifacts and I inherited autopsy reports from Walter Reed Hospital. Now at Walter Reed there is a laboratory there, which was our laboratory that we financed. That is who did the autopsies for us. But we didn’t leave any copies there. All copies had to come back to us because it was our lab,-we financed it all. So there we started getting proof that a crash really happened here.

Of course, I kept it quiet for 35 years I had an oath with the General and I didn’t reveal names of peoples. My son said, "35 years you kept a secret and didn’t even tell your family." I thought, "why should I tell anybody?" Now the General told me and said, "so let’s keep a secret, but when I die I relieve you of my oath."

Three years ago the General died and I started putting all this on paper. My grandchildren said, "what did you do during the war?" I thought I better leave them a legacy. I had no intention of writing a book, being in the military. But finally, it evolved and I gradually started to write and it evolved into this. So that is my background and as I said I had the evidence that a crash did happen here.

Wilbert Smith was a genius and the government really treated him badly. I was supposed to go to his laboratory with him because the General told him, "Smith, you and the Colonel have a lot to talk about. I’ll let the Colonel come and visit you at your lab on Lake Ontario. Well, I put it off, and in 1962 I decide to go up. I called up and they told me Mr. Smith died of cancer and I never really got to go to his laboratory. He gave us a piece of a metal that he took from a flying saucer.

[See the Smith memo and the testimony of others including Dr. B., et al. SG]

We exchanged metal samples [from crashed UFOs] and he brought ours back later.

To Congress I’d say, "it happened" and I’d add on to that. "Give this information to the young people of the world - they want to hear it, they want it. Give it to them. Don’t hide it and tell lies and make stories, they’re not stupid. They’re not young men that will panic." In fact, my own nephew is Research Director of DECO [sp] Corporation. He calls me and says, "Uncle Phil, why don’t they tell us the truth? We aren’t going to panic and pull our hair out."

One good example of this, which I always tell, to prove this point that the young people want it and aren’t going to panic: I always prove it this way – I commanded a battalion of 1,500 men, a combat battalion, average age of my soldiers was 19 years old. I told my exec one day, "my God, we’re sending babies into battle." These kids fought the greatest armies in the world. They didn’t run. They didn’t panic. They stood there and fought. Why do you think they’ll panic? They want this information and they deserve it. It’s their information. It doesn’t belong to the Army or Department of Defense- it’s theirs. If it’s classified, take the classification off and give it to them.

I always say this – the government is so big and so vast, that if you leave it alone it will cover itself up. When I testified in front of Missing Prisoners of War in front of Congress, Senate, and not too long ago in front of the House, and they asked me a question like this. I told them, "look it amazes me when General Skolcraft [sp] and Kissinger can come up here in front of you gentlemen and say there is no information there. I sent it myself from Tokyo over a teleconference over a two-year period. How can they say that?" And all the families were sitting there and they wanted to hear this. Later on we searched and we found it. It had fallen through the cracks. The politicians didn’t care, they have their own little ego, and do their own little job to get in the newspapers. If a Prisoner of War is missing from families, they don’t care. And the cover up happens like that sometimes with nobody doing anything- it will cover itself up and fall through the cracks as I put it.

We never trusted the CIA because in my day Stalin gave orders to get information that came out of Roswell to some of his top scientists and agents. That order went out and we knew that in Special Intelligence (that I was in the Pentagon) the KGB tried to penetrate that but they never did. We knew that Stalin sent agents out all over this area here to try to get information on Roswell and yet we stood back like fools and said it didn’t exist - we said it was a weather balloon. They didn’t think it was a weather balloon because they had indications that this event was happening.

[See also the testimony of Gordon Creighton. SG]

Countries in Europe are taking this very seriously. They’re not like us. They’re not going to put out stories that dummies came out of the air or that these were people with big heads. Those people are more serious about this than we are. But around here I’m not surprised to see the reaction from these people. Some are like me, they’ve never been out like this, after being in the military you don’t go out and give interviews and write books.

We gave information about the ET technologies out and insisted they [the corporations] take the patents. But also we put a little bit of a requirement: Feed it back to us, the competitive edge of the Army-take the patents, make all the money you want, but give it to the American people and give it to the world.

The Japanese, they interviewed me and I told them, "when we put the integrated circuit out we also gave it to you." I’ve testified in front of six congressional committees. If they want me to I will testify, providing they’re serious and they’re not going to put it in the archives and just put it away…I won’t go up there to help a senator or congressman get elected.

Look, there is a lot of stupidity involved- let’s face it. Maybe mine is a little stupidity that I kept quiet so long but I had an oath to a General that I wasn’t going to talk until he died three years ago. Also there were other people involved and like I told you before I don’t reveal them unless they want to come forward. But we should have done more.

The head [of the ET] really wasn’t that big, but in proportion to the small body it looked big. Later I got my hands on the autopsy report in 1961, when I took charge of the Foreign Technology Division, from Walter Reed Hospital. From there, I started putting it all together. The nature of the body inside was described in the autopsy report. They did an autopsy and they cut open the brain and all. The brain was different, and most of the body was different – no nose, no mouth, no ears, no vocal cords, no digestive system, no sex organs. So, then we came to the conclusion that it was a humanoid clone. As I say, when I saw the body, there was nothing to go on. Later on, I got the autopsy reports that experts had done, our own experts.

But we kept it to ourselves- only certain people knew about it, head to head, brain to brain, no paper trail. We were able to accomplish something. Now we had discussions with the German scientists [brought over after WWII in Operation Paperclip].

General Trudeau told me one day, "it took us five years to fully develop a transistor that somebody else started and the integrated circuit. If we didn’t have the help of people like Hermann Oberth and Wilbert Smith and the boys upstairs, it would have taken us 250 years. The message in my book I like to see is that the younger generation looks at this and see what we did and see the help we got from outer space and that these beings exist. Let the young people know that that’s the future they are going to be seeing and live with.

That’s what I think the message of the book is and what I’d like to see it do: Let the young people have it … we’re old, we’re going to be gone, let those young people know… they need this help, they’re going to be the ones to carry it on.

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