...Continuation of Interview to Courtney Brown

ART BELL

Yeah the, the Internet may be the biggest enemy of government secrecy --

DR BROWN

[inaudible] anyway, they rebuilt, they rebuilt the site, the actual home page for that remote viewing home page, and the next day it was eradicated again by the same hacker who went through yet again more firewalls, and this time the hacker said, you know, I'll show you, and destroyed the actual Internet server {Bell: Wow.}, the actual machine that the, that the site was made on, and then, the hacker so thoroughly destroyed -- this is a high-level hacker that knows everything -- so thoroughly destroyed this thing that the company had to actually go out and buy a new web server for all of its customers, because the machine was destroyed, I mean it was a total eradication -- {Bell: That's amazing} -- so you know, a common run-of-the-mill teenage hacker can't do things like that, so, the basic bottom line is that --
 

ART BELL

So the answer is, they "are" after them.

DR BROWN

Well they haven't gone after the home page again for that group, the Controlled Remote Viewing home page, and the best information I've got so far is that they've basically abandoned the attempt to go after anybody.

 

ART BELL

Alright look, we're going to talk about specific targets here shortly doctor, but you mentioned and teased a little bit, and I did ask you about it the other day, I don't pre-interview but I talk to you for a few moments, and I couldn't resist asking about Flight 800. {Brown: Sure.}

 

You have not yet targeted Flight 800, have you?

DR BROWN

No, we haven't. And one thing we do know about Remote Viewers is that you can perceive virtually anything, but you only know what you looked at. Like a closet, unless you've looked inside the closet you simply don't know what's there. So with regard to Flight 800, it'll be a great target for the future, but we haven't assigned that to anyone yet.
 

 

ART BELL

Are you going to do that?

DR BROWN

Oh sure, when they least expect it {laughs} when they, when they're absolutely sure the next target will be the Eiffel Tower, that's when we'll [snap at them?].
 

ART BELL

Just a quick answer, if you would. {Brown: Sure.} if you have a group targeting say, Flight 800, would there be any other remote viewers out there that could know you're targeting it, you know could, in essence, understand that you're in the process of targeting something?

DR BROWN

Well, that's a fascinating question --
 

ART BELL

And it requires a quick answer, is the answer yes?

DR BROWN

Yes -- but the, but the answer that I'll give right after the break is more fascinating than you can imagine.

 

ART BELL

Alright, that's a good teaser, stay right there, we'll be right back.
 

[BREAK]
 

ART BELL

Without question, this has been the best, most comprehensive explanation to date of remote viewing. There's no question about it. If you would like a copy of this program, you can get it by calling 1-800-917-4278 ... you can call right now.

 

Back now to Doctor Brown, Doctor, continue please.

DR BROWN
Well you had just asked me if it is possible for another remote viewer to perceive you know, a different remote viewer doing something {Bell: Targeting, yes.} -- a target -- well there's two fascinating answers to this. First is, when the U.S. found out that there was a Soviet psychic espionage unit in existence as well during the cold war, the U.S. team was given the target, some members of it were given the target, of literally remote viewing the Soviets. Now remember, the Soviets had a different set of procedures. {Bell: Right.}

 

They did not do training, they did, they got the best natural psychics and coordinated their activities and they developed an 80% accuracy rate. Now, the U.S. team in the Pentagon targeted the Soviet team, and they came, they sent a remote viewer there, under highly controlled conditions again, the remote viewer was not told what the target was [inaudible] just a target -- and the remote viewer found himself looking at a conversation between a woman, who turned out to be the high ranking commander of the Soviet unit, having a conversation with somebody else.

 

Now this woman was a natural psychic mind you, she didn't [?] the complicated procedures that the U.S. team did, so she had sort of natural abilities, and one of the first instances of its type happened during this session. The woman turned, and looked directly at the spot where the American remote viewer was located, inside the Kremlin -- or inside -- you know inside Moscow, wherever the actual location of the remote viewing person was, the Soviet one.

 

But the remote viewer, the U.S. remote viewer in the Pentagon then reported to the monitor, but with considerable surprise, that he was discovered, that the female actually looked at him, after he described who she was, then the monitor said, oh this is a national security breach, we have to retract this immediately, so they ended the session and brought the American remote viewer immediately back into the Pentagon {Bell: Wow.} and then the Soviet woman extended her consciousness out -- because she was a natural mind you, she didn't need all the elaborate preparatory stages that the American team needed {Bell: Came right back at us.} -- she came right back at him moments later, followed him back, and ended up in the Pentagon looking at them.

 

And it was at that point that the Soviets started to bombard, with probes, the U.S. team, and that's when the psychic warfare took off. Now, in addition to that, to answer your question, one of the scientific discoveries, in laboratories -- and actually this happened at Stanford Research Institute, SRI International, Palo Alto, in California, formerly associated with Stanford University, and they had to break off during the, after the, actually because of the Vietnam war, students were upset that the university was accepting so many defense dollars, so that SRI International had to break off, but, in the research laboratory, Ingo Swann, who was the original developer of the original military protocols, was sent to a target.

 

And completely identified the target and described it and so on. Couple years later, Joe McMoneagle, one of the natural psychics that was being tested at SRI International, was sent to the same target, couple years later.

 

And Joe McMoneagle, who was one of the military remote viewers, again, he was a natural, not one of the trained remote viewers, he was one of the natural remote viewers, he was sent to the same target in the laboratory, in the laboratory at Stanford Research Institute, and started to describe the exact same target. And then at near the end of the session he said, "But there's one thing that's odd. Over my shoulder, behind me, Ingo Swann is standing there." {Bell: Oh...! {laughs}}

 

So what actually happened was, you see when you remote view, it's not an out of body experience, but some aspect of yourself sort of materializes or becomes part of the scene, and another remote viewer can perceive it, so that once you remote view something, you actually become part of the history of that spot, for example [inaudible]--
 

ART BELL
[inaudible] -- in effect, remains there --

DR BROWN
-- it remains there, for, forever. {Bell: Wow.} In my book I was given, in my book, Cosmic Voyage, as a as a, what they call a calibration target, just to check on the, it's a verifiable target just to check on your use of the procedures, I was given the target, under totally blind conditions again, the Battle of Gettysburg.

 

And you know, after doing the procedures I did end up at the Battle of Gettysburg and describing it and even identifying it at the end of the session, this is the Battle of Gettysburg, it was a horrendous scene, it was very emotional [?], I never saw so much, so much life ended --
 

ART BELL
Don't you come out of them, don't you come out of them drained? I mean how can you go through the Battle of Gettysburg, seeing it, feeling it --

DR BROWN
That often does happen. some of our remote viewers go through a couple sessions, three or four sessions a week, and a couple -- some of them go through one a week -- depending on the nature of the session. If the target is the Eiffel Tower, there's not much draining there.

 

But in that case for example, in the Battle of Gettysburg, that was really quite an experience for me, to see that many people kill themselves, and if some other remote viewer were to go to the Battle of Gettysburg, and to poke around long enough, they'd eventually find me.

 

Meaning, they'd see something, they'd call it a spir... -- some sub-space being {Bell: Fascinating.}, hovering above the battle --
 

ART BELL
I'm with you doctor, listen though, to me for a second, while I ask this, doesn't this go back to our discussion of the nature of time?

DR BROWN
Well, this is a fascinating subject. We now know that time in reality does not exist. Let me explain.
 

ART BELL
Well that would seem to validate it, is what I was saying.

DR BROWN
Yeah but there's more to it, and you will be shocked when you hear this, because when I heard it, it shook me to my, to my absolute boots. The problem is the following: we found out that time really doesn't exist. What we have when we're in this three plus one dimensional world, in these physical bodies, what we have is not time, what we have is the limitation of perception.

 

When we're looking with our eyes, it's as if we're looking out the window of a fast-moving train. And everything that blurs past the window we see, but in a moment it's gone, and just because a train passes by a tree, and you can momentarily see it [?] you can't see it anymore, it doesn't mean that the tree doesn't still exist. What we found is that there's no experiential difference at all when you remote view something that's in the past, present or future. It's as if it's all in the here and now.

 

And what we now know is that since time really doesn't exist, the only thing that exists is a limitation of our perception so we can only see instantaneously what's occurring in the now {Bell: Got you.}, what we really have is a situation in which the past still exists. It never went away. Our limitation of perception limited our ability to see it, but it's still there, and the most amazing thing about this, when it hit me, when I realized after the first time I said, "Oh my lord -- that means the holocaust is still going on."

 

Everything that was bad, everything that was good, still exists. It's not gone anywhere, we just can't see it. Everything that's ever happened, and ever "will" happen, is in the here and the now. The only thing that's different is that we can't perceive it unless we use specialized procedures that allow our, our soul to get that information about what's in the here and now in the past, in the present, and the future, to our physical electrochemical minds.

 

Our limitation of perception is the only thing that's stopping our perception that the past, present and the future all exist -- that means with the future can perceive the past, and it is possible for the past, present and the future to interact {Bell: Sure.} and this is another interesting lesson to learn: if you have some of your listeners out there who have seen flying saucers, UFOs, ETs, and they saw them in the sky and felt fear perhaps, they should discard that fear, because in very great reality, you never know what you're looking at.

 

Who's flying that saucer? {Bell: That's true.} We now know that there are, there are extraterrestrials, truly, [?] species -- [inaudible as Bell and Brown both talk]
 

ART BELL
And "when" are they, I was going to say --

DR BROWN
[inaudible]... some of them are future humans. Well the point is --
 

ART BELL
Doctor I've got to ask you about something, if I don't my fax machine will burn up, everybody asks you, and it's got to be "the" question, and you have to have targeted it I hope, "Hi Art, can you ask the Doctor please, if Oswald was the lone gunman?"

DR BROWN
Oh. Well. Let me say... I'm going to give you an answer that you're not going to be satisfied with, but I'm going to give it to you anyway. We have targeted the, assassination of JFK, for sure. But we have not made a project out of it, which would answer that question. We send trainees there regularly, and we do in fact get -- in fact, one of the sessions, of a trainee, doing the JFK assassination, is up on our web page {Bell: Is is?}, yeah, so you can actually go to it, I forget which -- we only have results for eleven people up there right now, but by the end of the summer we'll have over thirty up there.

 

We're trying to get the results up as fast as we're, as manpower allows. But we got eleven, but one of them near the end, I think it's eleven or ten, or something, is the JFK assassination, and the trainee was not sent to all the different aspects of the target, that trainee was sent for example to just the JFK assassination, all the basics, and they got, they got the horror, they got all the details, the person in the car, and the metallic vehicle moving, the whole thing.

 

Other viewers have targeted it and have actually followed bullets, and actually got to it and figured out what it was during the target, during the session in fact it was so powerful, but to answer the question Art of whether Oswald was the sole gunman requires a project with multiple remote viewers, professional remote viewers, not trainees, but professionals focusing on just that one target.

 

And there are so many important projects that are with us right now we haven't had a chance to do that one. And but we do have lots of trainees go to that target, and it's a very interesting target, and some of the results [?] be found on the Internet as we speak.
 

ART BELL
So they - do they -- ok, alright, and there could be further news.

DR BROWN
we could resolve that, if we had the manpower to just focus just on that, we could resolve that.
 

ART BELL
Alright. "Please ask Mr. Brown if he agrees with Ed Dames" -- let me tell you what Ed Dames said. Two major things, professor, one: that he saw massive numbers of babies dying, and the second: that he saw massive problems for life forms here on earth due to the jet stream literally coming down "on deck," producing tremendous winds on earth.

 

These are things that he is, he's certain of. Have your viewers seen anything that would suggest the same sort of thing?

DR BROWN
Well, let me say one thing. You know {sighs}, it's very important for me to differentiate myself and what we're doing here at the Farsight Institute and what other people are doing. Because people can only speak for themselves. {Bell: Understood.}

 

And, and with regard to what other remote viewers have, have done, understand that, that our procedures that we have used, that we are now using and teaching at the Farsight Institute, have evolved from the original military procedures, and that while the information can be gotten -- and there's nothing "wrong" with the military procedures, just that there's been innovation from that -- and and I feel it's very important for your listeners to understand that if I say, no we haven't seen something, or, something else, that doesn't mean --
 

ART BELL
That it wasn't seen.

DR BROWN
That -- you know you, it's like closet, you only look at what you see, you only see what you've looked at, and for some of these things that you've mentioned that other remote viewers have seen, may differ from what we get, in part because we have not looked at certain things, and in also part because we're not doing things... quite as they were doing them, or still are doing them sometimes, and we're doing different procedures, and time will tell, the, with regard to our, you know, our changes, our evolutionary changes in the procedures, whether it's accuracy or whether it's -- whatever...

 

But in regard to the changes that you're talking about, those particular changes {Bell: Yes, yes.} -- not commenting on that particular person's work, but, just commenting about earth changes {Bell: Yes.} -- so I'm not saying, I'm not comparing what I'm saying now to that person {Bell: OK.}, I'm just saying, you've asked me about earth changes {Bell: Yes.} and you can make the comparison yourself {Bell: Go, go ahead.}.

 

However you want. {Bell: Indeed.} There definitely are climactic differences, changes that are coming. We are -- and I write about these, in my book, Cosmic Voyage, in quite detail -- whether they're involved with the jet stream changing or something else, you know, those are, those are things that I'm, those are details that we've not looked at {Bell: Alright, but --} -- but the point is, that the climactic changes that are coming are not just climate, in the terms of global warming, ozone stuff and things like that, but the fundamental driver of this whole thing is our population on the planet, and in the book Cosmic Voyage, I [?] -- report remote viewing, extensive remote viewing {Bell: Yes.} that goes as far as 400 years out in the future, and what we do now, this may sound strange, but it's true: the future is not deterministic. It's not set in stone. It's probabilistic.

 

Now what this exactly means we're not sure, but we do know that the future can change. That's why we have the future, future beings, say, yourself, you could be looking at a flying saucer and not realize that a future version of yourself is actually the pilot, so how could you be afraid of yourself? -- but the point is, that the future actually can interact with the past, and the timeline can change. {Bell: Alright --}

 

What I'm going to say is we have seen some dramatic changes on the planet {Bell: Like what?} -- that are very -- well, if you go out, if you go out thirty, forty years, you start seeing, population problems, really being very severe. And --
 

ART BELL
As in, as in diminishing?

DR BROWN
No, in the sense that the population's still growing, but you're running out of food, you're getting starvation in various places -- by the time you get to the year 2075, which is less than 100 years away, I mean you're not talking very far actually {Bell: That's right.}, you're talking when your, when your children and grandchildren are running around and having you, that, their robust time {Bell: Yes.}, you start entering a Mad Max scenario, and you start, it's quite clear at this point that the civilization has to hunker down and go into underground shelters --
 

ART BELL
Anar -- underground shelters?

DR BROWN
Yeah, the population comes apart, the political systems fall apart, there are roving gangs on the surface, the population basically survives in underground bunkers, very large encampments, and and it's not everybody gets to go in the bunkers, most people slug it out on the surface, then you go out to two-hundred fifty years, you find the only inhabitants are the people in the underground bunkers, and the rest of the world is barren, basically, and if you go out as far as three hundred years.

 

You start to see that the earth is being terraformed again by humans, slowly coming out of the bunkers, and you go out four hundred years you see sort of a garden of Eden, the humans are much wiser, much smarter, much more careful about their environment, and very carefully putting greenhouses all over the place, in the sense of re-terraforming and bursting the whole planet into life.

 

I have not gone out further than four hundred years. Robert Monroe at the Monroe Institute, when he was still alive, he and some others had gone out as far as a thousand years, and they found a completely reborn planet, I mean completely reborn, robust and very wise humans that are completely reoriented with regard to their role as not users and abusers of the planet, but caretakers. So we are going through a shift.

 

Humanity does not get wiped out, but we have some hard times ahead --
 

ART BELL
Well excuse me if I say, holy smokes -- Doctor, hold on, we need to get to the phones, and we'll do that next hour if you're up for it --

DR BROWN
I'm up for it, and we should also get to the ETs, the book Cosmic Voyage is all about those, [?] bottom line of the whole thing --
 

ART BELL
Oh believe me, we will, and if you knew how much what you just said sounds like what Major Dames said... I guess you'd probably start digging. I'm
 

ART BELL
and this is CBC.

[BREAK]
 

ART BELL
Professor Courtney Brown is my guest. He heads the Farsight Institute. He is a tenured PhD Professor at Emory University and he is a remote viewer. And in a moment, we're going to talk about the others.

[BREAK]
 

ART BELL
Alright. Doctor, two fast questions if I might. One, could ghosts, or what we think of as ghosts, actually be remote viewers?

DR BROWN
{Laughs} Actually -- actually that's -- you could, they could be misperceived as remote viewers. The point is that, ghosts are just people without physical bodies, and you know, a remote viewer, their consciousness, the presence of a remote viewer, can be perceived by a very sensitive person -- normally humans, ninety-nine percent of the time plus, are not aware that you're remote viewing them.

 

That is not the same with ETs. Most ETs like Greys and others, they know from the get-go that you're going. They know you're coming before you're even going there.
 

ART BELL
We're just, we're just about to get to the ETs. But before we do, one last question, and that is: What would happen Doctor, if during a remote viewing session, you died?

DR BROWN
Well what would happen if you, like you had a heart attack or something like that?
 

ART BELL
Yeah. Died.

DR BROWN
Well nothing would happen. You -- it's not an out of body experience, so you're not departing the body anyway, what would happen if the person physically died is that their subspace aspect, just like any death, would disconnect from the physical body, and they would look back at the physical body, sort of like in the Whoopi Goldberg movie "Ghost," very much like that, no quite literally, it's very much like that, we've seen that happen. You look at a lot of deaths when we do remote viewing because a lot of interesting events have death in it.
 

ART BELL
Indeed. Dramatic, traumatic moments. Alright, you --

DR BROWN
If I could just interject one thing, just before the break, you made a comment, that might frighten some people, thinking that, you know, like, disaster is imminent, or like should we start digging. And I want to say that I have no indication of anything like that, if anything I have you know, the indication that the changes that are going to happen are going to be gradual, and that you know, the very near term future for humans on this planet is, this is one of the most exciting times to be alive, as you'll see when we talk more about the ETs and so on like that --
 

ART BELL
Indeed Doctor, but you did say our children's lifetime.

DR BROWN
Well the future that far out is, is, very difficult, and I also mentioned that it was probabilistic, meaning [?] one that we see, but for reasons that we don't completely understand, it is possible for the timeline to change, I'm hoping for the best.
 

ART BELL
I understand. Alright. ETs. You, you did make a serious professional project of Mars, didn't you.

DR BROWN
Well I studied two ET species. Remember, with remote viewing, you can perceive anything, but you only know, you only know what you looked at. There may be many other ET species, some of which may be interacting with humans, but I only know -- in "detail" -- about two.

 

And those two species are a species called the Greys, there's written, been written extensively by about by Whitley Streiber, as well as John Mack, David Jacobs, professor of History at Temple University (Bell: I've interviwed every one of them.} -- OK, and Martians. Now, let me tell you something about Martians.

 

If I had wanted to ruin my professional career by writing a book about ETs, and dream up something about a species, and to earn $10,000 from a book {laughs} and ruin my professional career and the whole thing, if I'd wanted to do something like that, to write a book of fiction and try to sell it as fact -- which I have "not" done, Cosmic Voyage "is" a book of fact -- but if I had "wanted" to write a book of fiction and try to sell it as fact, I "never" would have mentioned anything about Mars.

 

It's too much like Ray Bradbury. It's too much like H.G. Wells. It's just too far- fetched -- the reality is, however, I'm a scientist, and I'm committed to science more than I'm committed to anything else, and a scientist who's worth his weight, his or her weight in salt, must report exactly what the scientific experiments result, and the reality is, we live not alone in our own solar sys -- in our, in our universe, in this galaxy, or, very surprisingly, even in our own solar system. Let me tell you the story about Mars.
 

ART BELL
Please.

DR BROWN
Long ago, at the time when dinosaurs roamed on Earth, there was an ancient Martian civilization. We are very close to understanding that fact. The end of this year, in just a few months, two Martian probes will be sent, from -- by NASA, to Mars, they will be arriving in the middle of next year, and, you know, more of the details of all of the remains of the ruins on Mars will come out into the public light soon.

 

But, let me say this: the Martians of long ago experienced a planetary holocaust "not" of their own making. They were rescued. We now know that wherever Beings are, they organize themselves. You put people in an elevator long enough, they'll eventually figure out how to, how to organize themselves, who's going to push the buttons first or whatever {Bell: Yeah.} -- the point is, that the Beings in our galaxy have organized. And there is something called, that we call, the Galactic Federation, there is an actual Galactic organization.

 

When the Martians, they had a civilization that technologically was pretty similar to the ancient Egyptians, three thousand years ago, the pyramid Egyptians. They did not have high-technology, but they had a planetary holocaust that wiped out their civilization, but before they were wiped out, they had a rescue group come in. A group that was sanctioned by this Galactic Federation to go in and basically rescue the Martians.

 

They were a group of Greys, [many?] the Beings that are involved in the so-called abduction phenomenon, that you hear so much about in the literature, and John Mack has written extensively about that in his book -- and these Greys, a rescue unit of these Greys, were actually sent in to rescue, we don't know how many -- all? most? many? -- we don't know -- but, very many many Martians were rescued. They just basically packed up and -- now you have to understand something about the Greys --
 

ART BELL
Taken off-planet?

DR BROWN
Yes, they have an ability, the Greys have an ability to move their ships through time, as easily as space. They have a technological ability to do this. We already have a remote viewing ability to do this, and it's only a matter of years before our scientists in our laboratories, our physicists, understand the physics of why we can do that -- well, once you understand the physics, it's only a matter of time before you have gizmos that can do this as well.

 

The Greys have those gizmos, and they basically can go through a billion years of time like we walk across the street. They brought many, most, all, we don't know how many, but lots of those Martians up to the present time period, actually about a decade, decade and a half, twenty years ago, they brought them up -- where did they bring them?

 

Back to Mars.

 

They are now awakened in underground caverns in Mars -- inside, not on the surface. They are happy to have been rescued. They are ticked off that they happened to have been rescued in the particular manner, meaning, they would love to have been brought to Earth, say a hundred and fifty years ago, they'd be running this planet by now, but the problem is, right now they're on basically a dead world that has no future for them. They must leave.

 

The Greys have bootstrapped their technology, so that they have about a hundred and fifty year technological advantage over us humans. They have an ability to have fast flying saucers, fast ET ships, that go between Mars and Earth, for shuttle runs, to get supplies and things like that. They do not have interstellar, nor do they have inter-time capabilities on the level that the Greys have. So the Martians have no choice. They're between a rock and a hard place.

 

They have got to leave Mars, they must come here. And, this planet is fully populated with an aggressive, hostile, human species that has movies about invasions from Mars, and the Martians themselves are terrified. They don't know -- they're stuck between a rock and a hard place, they are "not" interested in conquering, they just need to be rescued.
 

ART BELL
So they're "IN" a rock and a hard place.

DR BROWN
They're "in" a rock and a hard place, and the remote viewing results on this are absolutely unequivocable.
 

ART BELL
Alright, well alright, what can you tell us about the Martians themselves? What are --

DR BROWN
Well they're humanoid, just like us now, there are some Martians on Earth. We actually have located one base of theirs.
 

ART BELL
You have?

DR BROWN
It's a, it's a processing base. And in the book Cosmic Voyage, I have actually described where that base is. It's underneath a mountain outside of Santa Fe, called Santa Fe Baldy, and it's underneath that mountain, there's a base. Now mind you, that the Martians are not interested in warfare, they're interested in defense, and their only major defense is clandestine activity. They're hiding.

 

And the real reason is, they have got to get to a point where humans openly want to both discuss things with them, talk to them, and say, you know, can we help, offer a helping hand. We now know for a fact that the rest of the galaxy is looking. This is the biggest spectator sport in the galaxy, to figure out what humans are going to do when they finally take their heads out of the sand like the proverbial ostrich, look up and say,

"Alright, alright, alright, you've been flying under our noses for long enough, we admit, we are not alone in this universe, galaxy, or even our own solar system, you exist out there, let us talk."

Are the humans going to freak out and send missiles? {Bell: [inaudible]} "My lord, we have Martians, let's bomb them." Or, are we going to say, with compassion, "We hear you have troubles. Can we help?" {Bell: {laughs}} That's what the galaxy is actually looking to see if we will respond. Are we going to be mature participants in what we now know is a robust galactic community of life, or are we going to stay in the daycare camp of the galaxy, and remain primitive?
 

ART BELL
We're going to fill them full of lead, Doctor.

DR BROWN
I have different remote viewing results than that --
 

ART BELL
Well I hope, I hope you're right.

DR BROWN
[inaudible] exciting time to live.
 

ART BELL
Listen, it must be 12 fingers down from their point of view on ID4.

DR BROWN
Oh yeah, but you know, Independence Day was a really fun movie, I enjoyed watching it. You know why it was so great? It's not really realistic. We're not being invaded. But it's very useful from a very important sense.

 

There is an underlying sense, tremendous sense, with regard to the human populace, with regard to the ETs. Most everybody realizes there's something out there.

 

And the government -- and I'll explain why, I explain it in detail in the book, Cosmic Voyage -- but the government has had a very difficult time getting to the point where it can explain things to people. The reality is however, what good does Independence Day, the movie, do? It gets all of that fear out onto the surface. It's like your therapist telling you to go over and punch that couch. What happens with Independence Day? The worst of our fears comes out, and we can just let it vent.

 

The idea of an invasion from outside. And, what also happens is, something very useful. What's the human response? Well, Will Smith, remember what he does, he, he fights with, in a, in a fighter, a jet fighter {Bell: Well I don't want to get away from --} where an ET -- he punches one in the nose {Bell: Right --} -- and drags it across the desert in an absolutely fearless sense.

 

In the sense, he, ID4 is valuable for the human psyche because humans are not passive in it, we fight back, and so on {Bell: Right.}, so the reality is, we're not being invaded so we don't need to fight, but there, the good part of ID4, of Independence Day, the movie, is it, is it portrays humans in a non-passive way so that we don't feel helpless anymore, and in the same sense, it it gets us to vent all of that fear, get it out like a cathartic release so that we can get on to the reality, which is much more complicated.
 

ART BELL
if I were to see a Martian, one that is here on Earth now --

DR BROWN
You may have already done that.
 

ART BELL
Well, that was my question. Would I --

DR BROWN
You probably would not know the difference. There are various genetic strains of Martians. Some of them look variously different than us. But they're all humanoid, and some of the Martians are very, very close. The closest connection that you might find to the largest genetic strain, the largest group of Martians, would be the Native American community.

 

They're more like Native American Indian orientation. Not Indian-Indian, but you know, Native American type orientation. {Bell: Yes.}

 

That's the closest you can get to the largest group. But they have a variety of different genetic strains just like we do, that have various, various differences, we have to get over the idea of of racism being the thing that divides our society, and realize that the future is going to be species- ism, species-ism, so we have to understand that we are going to be one species in a large group of species --
 

ART BELL
Doctor, do they know who they are?

DR BROWN
Yes, absolutely, they know who they are, they're trying desperately to hide from us, because they know they have to come here, they don't want to make us as enemies, they got to beg their way in here -- on the other hand it's not so many Martians that we're going to have any population problem -- the other thing is, you must understand --
 

ART BELL
Important question: how many are there?

DR BROWN
We don't know the exact number, but there are many. but it's not going to cause a population problem, it's sort of [inaudible] --
 

ART BELL
We have five billion plus on our planet. Are we talking, tens of thousands, millions --

DR BROWN
We're probably talking enough to populate a, a reasonable city.
 

ART BELL
That's a small number, really.

DR BROWN
We're talking, we're talking maybe a few million. We don't have hard numbers on this. But we're definitely not talking a billion.
 

ART BELL
Alright.

DR BROWN
We're talking, we're talking no major change in terms of, in terms of numbers, but we are talking "major" change in terms of our society recognizing that we're not alone, that we even have near neighbors. Now the other thing is, that you may say, what is the incentive, why should we help them? People have actually said to me,

"You know forget the altruism of us having a good name in the galaxy. Why should we help anybody? I mean we had trouble accepting Cambodian and Vietnamese refugees, at the end of the Indo-China war, at the end of the Vietnam War -- why should we help Martians of all people?"

The reality is that even if you don't buy the altruistic argument, that we have to participate in the galaxy of life and help others as we have been helped, we now know that we've been helped countless times -- but even if you don't buy that, there are selfish reasons why we should do that. Generals -- think - - [?] go back to the military. What do Generals hate most? Hate most? And that is, a battlefield surprise. The last thing they want is new technology to appear on the battlefield unannounced. {Bell: You bet.}

 

Now listen. We have Martians out there with about a hundred and fifty year technological advantage over us, we, they are -- the Martians themselves are in desperate -- you have no idea how desperate conditions they are living under right now -- they need to get off that essentially dead world that has no future for them at all -- now what would happen if the rest of the human race stays blind and says "No, we're going to keep our heads into the sand like that proverbial sand and never lift it up," but somebody like Saddam Hussein for example buys a cheap radio telescope and beams it in their direction and says "Hey! You want a planet, you want a place to land, hey you like desert? We got "lots" of desert.

 

Just come on over here, you can stay with us, we got lots of empty room. The only payment we ask for is, why don't you give us a couple of those ships?" "One" of those ships would have completely reversed the course of Desert Storm.

 

The Iraqi's could not only have taken Kuwait with impunity, but also Saudi Arabia and Turkey and any other place they want -- Generals don't like that scenario, you can be guaranteed the U.S. Military, when it gets to that time, in the "not" distant future, the U.S. Military's going to be putting pressure on the President, saying,

"Hey look Mr. President, I know this may be a political thing for you, but as far as we're concerned, this is men and women's lives at stake, if there are Martians out there, get those ships into Nevada, get them into Arizona, get them under NATO command, get those things under UN command, United Nations command, let's not have high technology just roaming about for a place to land, let's get those things down here and get those Martians in through proper immigration processes" --

I have to say one more thing: Art: in the processing center underneath Santa Fe Baldy in New Mexico, the Martian base, there's a nursery. There are nurseries elsewhere on the planet as well.
 

ART BELL
Nurseries, oh my god -- hold it right -- [inaudible as Bell and Brown both talk]
 

ART BELL
Doctor, Doctor you must hold. It's a good cliffhanger anyway. Stay right where you are.

DR BROWN
I'll be here.

[BREAK]
 

ART BELL
My guest is Professor Courtney Brown. Doctor Brown is a tenured PhD Professor at Emory University. He is a remote viewer. He runs the Farsight Institute. And if the kind of thing that we are now discussing scares you, turn your radio off. Because it's getting it's getting to be very, very interesting. And we'll get back to it in just a moment.

 

[BREAK]


ART BELL
Alright back now to Professor Brown. Professor, the -- what killed their planet?

DR BROWN
Oh. Mars? That's a fascinating story. It was not of their -- it was not an environmental problem like what we're doing with our planet, or basically what happened to the Greys and their own home-world, we visited there as well -- what happened there is there was a outside celestial body that passed by, apparently it got very close, very, it dipped right into the atmosphere, and caused a atmospheric disruption, that caused climactic changes.

 

It apparently didn't impact on the planet, it apparently passed by, but whipped right through the planet, it was a very large asteroid, and what happened was it caused atmospheric disruption that Mars didn't have a sufficiently large, sufficiently high gravity to dampen down that, those disruptions, and the atmosphere started to vibrate, and when it got a little higher off the planet it started to experience a situation where much of it was carried by some of the solar wind, and then the climate started to change very rapidly, over a matter of a few months, and more place became you know, very destroyed, very upsetting, and a rescue team had to be sent basically in.

 

It was a aster -- it was an interplanetary problem that occurred, it was not something due to the Martians themselves.
 

ART BELL
Alright. The Martians are here. {Brown: Yeah.} Now this is, this is, I want a serious answer to this question, if I can get it -- we have two choices apparently, to accept them, and allow them to in effect immigrate and come above ground as they apparently want to do, a -- according to you, or, to reject them, fight them, to react as humans so frequently do, violently: if that is the case, would they, like a cornered animal, fight?

DR BROWN
I -- I don't think so, they don't have anything in their makeup to, they're not an aggressive hostile species, they're so desperate right now there'd be no benefit for them to do something like that.
 

ART BELL
Well there is a modern expression about desperate people doing desperate things.

DR BROWN
On the other hand, your question raises a good point, and it's probably one of the things that the Generals are going to be talking to the President about, saying,

"Look, we don't want a battle on our hands, if they're desperate let's resolve this thing peacefully, because if they need to get out of there and their only option is suicide, then let's resolve this and help them."

But we have to understand there's something else. There are -- we now know, and I've written about it, you know all the things that I'm writing, talking about briefly here are in "detail" in the book Cosmic Voyage, it's available in all the major bookstores, if they're sold out they'll order it, so you know, if your listeners are wanting to get the rest, of the meat and pot -- the meat that goes on these bones, it's there, you don't have to wait to get it.

 

And the reality is that, that, when it comes to Martians there are -- I mentioned one base, it's a processing base, underneath Santa Fe Baldy outside of Santa Fe inside a National Forest, New Mexico.

 

But there are other places on the surface where villages live, and they're basically mistaken as being thought that they're just sort of Native, you know, Native American, or actually not American, but South American, indian stock and things like that, but the point is, that they're living a clandestine life because of the nature of their existence, and -- but you have to understand, for example, inside the base underneath Santa Fe Baldy, right here in the United States, in New Mexico, there is a nursery, and this is very typical about the nurseries that exist. There is a nursery where moms are taking care of kids.

 

Now, you have to understand, a lot of those kids were born in that nursery, they were born here. That means, face the facts, we have a constitution, the reality is, some of those kids are American citizens. And their parents have legal rights for expedited green card status. So we have some real reasons for having legal reasons for having a desire to lift our heads up out of that sand like the proverbial ostrich and start saying, not only are we not alone, but some of them are us, and you know, they don't need warheads, what they need is passports.
 

ART BELL
Is there a way, is there a way to delineate in any way at all between somebody of Martian origin, somebody of Earthly origin?

DR BROWN
It's as easy to do that as it is to know the difference between an African and a Swede. But you can nonetheless find black Swedes. And you have to, you know you have to understand that if people want to keep themselves hidden, a little makeup, some hats, some glasses go a long way.

 

But the point is, yes, when we actually do start interacting with Martians we will notice some differences. Some, less than others. But with some strains there's going to be you know, significant differences. The reality is, they are not carbon copies of humans. But they're interesting.
 

ART BELL
Well -- well, give me an example, if you know of one, or if you're willing to tell of one, of a difference that would be obvious if exposed.

DR BROWN
Well when I say this, understand what I said early on in the show. What is the remote viewing image like? It's foggier, it's fuzzier, shiftier, you don't get high resolution images in remote viewing. {Bell: Right.} They're shifting, low resolution foggy images.

 

So, with remote viewing it's not ever going to be as good as like a TV camera. So the reality is that anything I say may be different when -- and, and, may be different in detail -- when we actually start interacting with these Beings and, and the veil comes off completely. but, in the old days when they were on Mars, the, they were clearly thinner, wispier, weaker, physically weaker Beings. They didn't have as much gravity to deal with, they were much different.

 

Now they seem to be, especially the surf -- the ones that are living on the surface, seem to be thicker, heavier, Indian-type stock, you would very easily confuse them if you were going through Latin America, with with Indians in the local neighborhood. {Bell: OK.}

 

On the other hand, there seems to be, in the base underneath Santa Fe Baldy, they seem to be taller, thinner, lighter skinned, and we're not completely sure the eyes are the same, but it -- we're just, we're just going to have to, it'll [?] be better, we know that they exist and the differences are it's better that we just see them at this point.

 

The best answer to that is, let's wait a couple years and just invite them. {laughs} Invite them in front of the camera themselves. They've got to get over this very soon. This is not something that we're talking about our children or our grandchildren experiencing, this is something that we're going to see in our lifetime.
 

ART BELL
How soon?

DR BROWN
Well, I don't expect anything before the presidential election for sure, and when I tell my colleagues you know, how they should judge Cosmic Voyage, I tell them, give me two years for things to sort of pan out a little bit, in terms of open awareness of [?] extraterrestrials, open acknowledgement that the extraterrestrials exist, and so on, and then to get communications starting.

 

But I would think something has to happen very soon, before the year two thousand, because those Beings on Mars are not happy campers, they've got to get off, something has to happen soon, and in addition, the Martian thing is going to be coming to a head very soon because we've got these probes going -- now either the probes are going to be blown out of the sky, which is what happened to the Mars Observer probe that we sent up.

 

I have a chapter on that, Mars Observer probe in Cosmic Voyage, to us an interplanetary probe is one thing, to "them" it's a spy satellite, and it's one thing to send Viking stuff, but to send, to send high-resolution modern interplanetary probes there takes away the clandestine nature.
 

ART BELL
Will they blow, will they blow them up?

DR BROWN
Well they make take it out, but no matter how it happens, somebody, people are going to ask questions. If they, if they blow them up, because they don't want us to see, because they want to continue the clandestine nature because they're frightened of us, then people will ask questions, in which case, stuff will start coming out.

 

If they don't blow them up and they actually arrive on the planet and start taking pictures, I mean one is going to be a rover, on the surface, [?] on that orbits the [?], if we start taking pictures then people are "definitely" going to start asking questions.

 

By the way, I should say something that's very important. Do you know -- well, actually, you do know -- I -- that there is an internal rule in NASA that's absolutely enforced under all conditions, that right now there are no live out the window video broadcasts that are done from any shuttle that's orbiting the earth.

 

Meaning, if a shuttle's above, it's absolutely illegal under NASA rules to actually put a video camera out there and actually film what's going on out there. Why? Because too many times, the ETs use it [as an?] opportunity to attract our attention, fly a ship in front of the camera, really quick.
 

ART BELL
Well there was SKS48.

DR BROWN
There's all types of problems like that. Now, with Mars, there's a similar thing, there's an internal rule in NASA saying that there's no live coverage before it goes through security clearance, of anything that they discover on Mars.

 

So, you know, NASA knows that there's something going on, in fact, in Cosmic Voyage, in the chapter about the Mars Observer probe that was taken out, I actually cite a New York Times article, and, you know, and in that front section of the New York Times they actually, when Mars observer "was" taken out, some of the people in NASA started to talk openly, and in that New York Times article it actually describes, it actually quotes some of the people saying "Look, that place is a jinxed place," we're actually talking about, uh...
 

ART BELL
Doctor I remember when the Mars Observer was destroyed. And I can't recall the source, I'm so sorry, but there was something about an object, or something, that was just briefly seen, or sensed --

DR BROWN
No. You're thinking now about the Phobos probe that the Russians sent out. And what happened was the they took out that probe as well, and what happened was, the last photo that came from the Phobos probe was of a, basically a very highly lighted ET ship approaching the craft at high speed.
 

ART BELL
That's right.

DR BROWN
But the last -- well that's well known. But what was not well known is the telemetry of the probe, the last telemetry that was sent over was an energy pulse that surged throughout the ship, and then it went silent. So it was blasted. Now, when it took out the Mars Observer probe, we know this from remote viewing data, [?] -- you know we sent people there on -- it's a very interesting target to send people to, so we do that -- and the Mars Observer probe was not taken out with an energy pulse.

 

They apparently didn't want to make the same mistake that they did with the Phobos probe. So what happened was, they didn't want any suggestion that an ET ship was approaching, or that an energy pulse went through the ship, they didn't want any last minute or last second evidence of it. So they took it out with a physical, you might call it like a cannonball, a physical, a physical object.

 

So they literally shot it with a humongous cannonball and just blasted it out of the sky, and then it, for all intents and purposes, it just blinked off {Bell: It did.}, from the from all the stuff in NASA, it basically looked like a meteor hit it, so that was a, a change in strategy, I don't know what's going to happen to the two probes that we're going to be sending up but you can be guaranteed next year's going to be very interesting.
 

ART BELL
Alright. Why are they doing this? If they are desperate for contact, then why not allow Mars Observer, why not allow --

DR BROWN
They may allow the next two probes. But the point is, up until now, they wanted to keep themselves secret, because they're literally just on a survival race right now.

 

The Greys didn't put them in a situation where they have everything that they -- you know they didn't have the kitchen sink and everything that they could dream of -- they just, they literally have to rely on -- and they're just like us, they're conservative, they want conservative, guaranteed strategies, they want the ability to fly in and out of this planet and get resources, for food and other things they need, and they don't want restrictions, and the last thing they want is a, is a panicky human race and aiming them up rather than at each other {Bell: Yeah, that makes sense.}.

 

They, they want us to get to the point where we're calm. Now I must say, when my book Cosmic Voyage first came out, one of the most important things that I did, nature provides these things, I don't believe in coincidences anymore, was I was offered a chance to go to New Mexico, and I was put on the strongest radio station in New Mexico, broadcasts out of Albuquerque but it has transmissions all over Santa Fe and everywhere else {Bell: [KROB?].}

 

And it's the very same station that I'm broadcasting on with you right now {Bell: That's right.} and for three hours on a talk show I talked to all of New Mexico and it was beamed right over Santa Fe Baldy, the Martians were listening and there's no question about it, I talked for three hours counseling humans about how they, how we need to be tolerant and acceptant, of other species, of other groups in trouble, and it was the first time that Martians were able to see a human counseling other humans in such a broadly publicized fashion, about the -- about their own existence, about the Martian existence.

 

That is going to be a very great thing. A very great maturing step for us as a species. When we not only acknowledge that we do not live alone, but that we have neighbors, and that we need to participate with these neighbors. The plot thickens every single day on this thing. It's not like we just say, "OK we have neighbors, so they're there." It's like, we've got to interact with them.
 

ART BELL
Doctor, the Brookings report --

DR BROWN
Oh yes.
 

ART BELL
Oh yes. Well, for all your counseling, I mean, right now on the planet, we can't even get, we can't even get along with ourselves, despite Rodney King's best pleadings, we can't get along with ourselves, so, Martians?!

DR BROWN
That's correct, but you know, we have -- I'm an optimist with regard to us, we have a lot of growing to do, that's why we're here, remember this physical human experience, getting back to the very beginning of the show, is an education for us, and one of the things we need to learn is, sometimes growing a curve's fast, sometimes it's slow, but these next ten years [are?] on the fast track of growing, and as a species we are going to be going through some major changes with regard to our awareness of ourselves, who we are, our composite nature.

 

Just the idea of remote viewing is changing everything. By the way, you know they did a survey, of scientists, a regular survey done by normal scientists about telepathy, and it's now passed the fifty percent mark. Fifty percent of all scientists now acknowledge that telepathy probably does exist. We're getting there.
 

ART BELL
I believe it, I don't doubt that at all. But here's a good question for you. If these Martians have been protective of their identity and their presence, then forget about our government, they must be, they must be very upset with people like you.

DR BROWN
No, they're happy, because they know that this clandestine nature, the secrecy has to end. They have to come here, and it has to be open. They're waiting for it to occur. How do they want it to occur? {Bell: Are you --} They want it to occur with the best possible, the best possible means, they want it to occur in a situation where humans awaken, look up, and say "welcome." {Bell: That would be nice.} Not arm ourselves {Bell: I understand.}, but --
 

ART BELL
That would be nice, but we're armed to the teeth, Doctor. And --

DR BROWN
Yes, that's why the Martians are staying secret, because it's a very dicey situation.
 

ART BELL
Dicey indeed.

DR BROWN
Well it's a very delicate situation! You're dealing with a panicky human race that has a genetic composition that can't see beyond its birth and death, and you know, and has movies about invasions from Mars. I mean in the, in December there's going to be a new movie coming out called "Mars Attacks." Now I'm not upset about that, because it's another one of those cathartic releases that gets it out and it also opens the idea of Mars being alive again, but I -- I don't know what the screenplay is, but the very idea of 'Mars Attacks' coming out at the end of the year is going to be sort of interesting.

 

We bring Mars back to consciousness again as being a, a, a planet that has life, but the reality is, the Martians are very concerned about their image, I mean they've got a bad rap with regard to movies. {Bell: They do. They [inaudible as both speak simultaneously]} -- they've gotta get over that, but it's not their problem, it's our problem, we're going to grow out of that, but the result is, we've done the remote viewing into the future.

 

Art I have to tell you that the remote viewing in the future is absolutely, unequivocally, is absolutely certain. We do get over this hump. And we do establish relations with our neighbors. {Bell: Well -} And they do come here.
 

ART BELL
With respect to the, the, what you have told us about the Martians, there and here, how sure are you?

DR BROWN
I'm certain. Now look, first of all, I'm not a gambler. The only time I've ever gambled was when I was in Reno and I was passing through on a bus, much younger --
 

ART BELL
Yeah, that's gambling.

DR BROWN
- and I put 187 pennies into a slot machine, and lost every one {Bell: laughs}. Now listen: I don't gamble. I'm a very conservative person. I have a pristine reputation in non-linear chaos catastrophe theory type application and social scientific research. I don't need the problems of, of a book on ETs. The reality is, I don't do anything unless I'm certain. I'm certain enough to risk my entire professional career. If there are no Martians, I wouldn't be able to get an article, I wouldn't be able to get a letter published with Dear Abby --
 

ART BELL
A point well made, and the last one this hour, looks like we'll go the whole way, stay right there, I'm
 

ART BELL
[small piece of introductory message missed here] .

[BREAK]
 

ART BELL
Professor, suppose somebody were to go to New Mexico with big digging equipment and explosives and test your your, your, your theory --

DR BROWN
Well let's hope that doesn't happen. You know, if they were actually going to attempt to physically extract the Martian base, hopefully the government would get involved, besides, it is a National Park, so that wouldn't be allowed you see, a National Park is a perfect place for such a situation {Bell: That's true.}

 

Not many people, it's a low density state, it's a National Park, the only thing they have to worry about is backpackers -- understand that the Martians have a technological ability that's not very far away for us even, figuring out -- the ETs, both Greys -- by the way, we've gone four hours and we haven't even "begun" to talk about the Greys, and you won't "believe" their story, [?] it's an extraordinarily interesting story --
 

ART BELL
It's right on my list --

DR BROWN
-- Yeah, but let me just, let me just mention that somehow there's a technological ability to change the phase, vibrational something or other of matter, so that physical matter can pass through other matter. ET ships don't need a tunnel to get through rock. They flip a switch and they go through. In the abduction phenomenon, the abduction literature, for example the stuff that's written about by John Mack {Bell: Right through walls.}

 

He writes extensively about how ETs pass people through walls {Bell: Right.}, windows, they never open the window {Bell: That's right.} and, the reality is, for the Martians to get to their base, they're flying their saucer, they're flying their ships, they flip a switch, they go right through the mountain, and then flip the switch off when they get inside the hangar, underneath the mountain, it's a perfect place, the only thing that they have to worry about is backpackers.

 

So it's certainly a good enough place for a processing center, for the next, could, couple some-odd years, while we're sorting things out, but the remote viewing, I have a chapter about this in Cosmic Voyage, the remote viewing done under totally blind, laboratory controlled type conditions of the future of that base is that eventually it's a, a tunnel is made to get into the base, and it becomes an immigration processing center. {Bell: OK.}

 

And so you know, a tunnel is made, train tracks are put through it, I mean, passing in and out with advanced ships may be ok for the Martians, but when it gets to humans putting people in and out on a processing center, immigration processing center, we're going to want tunnels and, and, you know, vehicles that can go in and out normally.
 

ART BELL
OK. Since time is short, I want to ask -- I've had Graham Hancock on my program. Richard Hoagland on my program. And countless others who would tend to verify a great deal of what you're saying. So I've got to ask you, about the pyramids {Brown: {inaudible as they both speak simultaneously}} -- wait now, wait now -- the pyramids on Mars, the face on Mars, and what we have at Giza, and how it relates to what you've been telling us, if it does.

DR BROWN
Well, the Martian Cydonia complex, where the pyramid is, as well as the the face and so on like that, those, those are clearly the ruins of an Ancient Martian city, we send people there all the time, it's one of our favorite spots to send people, because it's such a clear target, we send them back in time to the time when that place was actually active, and in fact you see people running around, people doing things.

 

You can actually see the city in dismay when a volcano erupts nearby {Bell: Really?}, yeah, when the, it's a, it's sort of like Pompeii when, when the volcano goes by, but also when the climactic problems start to occur, you see the destruction of the city, because they didn't have a high technology back in those days. And so they were really, terribly affected.

 

And so that's clearly the remnants of a, of a city. So those are -- [?] so what Richard Hoagland and others have been saying about those being ruins is true. Those are ruins. And that's very near-term, you're not going to have to wait for your kids and grandkids to know that, you'll know that in your own lifetime. Now the other thing is, Mars and, Egypt, you know, seems very, very parallel, because we indeed have a Sphinx, we have pyramids and so on, and we have to remember that the word Cairo, the root to the word Cairo, in Arabic, is Mars, Cairo means Mars, that's the root of the word.

 

And there was a tremendous parallel in culture between the Egyptians three thousand years ago and the ancient Martians that were destroyed. There may be a very specific link between Mars and the ancient Egyptian culture. I don't know that link, we haven't, we only have, we're trying to get more remote viewers to solve so many of these problems, but the, I don't believe in coincidences anymore, there's enough coincidental similarities to make me think that it's certainly worth a very good look, because the word Cairo means Mars, the pyramids, the face, the same type of stuff, the same ruins, it's too reminiscent of --
 

ART BELL
So these will be targets.

DR BROWN
Yeah, these -- but something like that has to be resolved in a project, and a project means a whole bunch of remote viewers {Bell: I understand.} remote viewing something under tightly controlled -- and you're dealing with professionals at this point, not just trainees. {Bell: Right.}

 

Trainees have experiences and we publicize that, and we put them up on the Net, but many of these projects require professionals working -- and we're getting that way, let me tell you that there are many people in our Professionalization Program, after taking the Farsight Voyager, the first intensive one week course, there are many people that have you know, stayed with it and are going onto the Professionalization Program.

 

Everybody that takes the course, so far, absolutely every single person has had very clear remote viewing results, but the point is, we want many of those people to go on and become professionals, and as many as are intuitively driven, or drawn, we want them to become teachers, we want them to become better than the best ever were, we want them to be better than myself, you know, every generation of remote viewers is going to be better than the past generation.

 

So we're trying to get you know, this Institute expanded as much as possible. We know that the future of the Institute is very bright, because, we know that the things that are already out in the press, Cosmic Voyage, things like that, those are things that are just on the very near horizon for being verified. You know the one thing is, we have known the remote viewing results for a long time.

 

The laboratories have had solid evidence of remote viewing being an operational capability for three decades. But it's not made a dent on the planetary population. Scientists and others have been able to just simply disregard it, and say it's just not relevant, or just plain say it didn't happen, like just to ignore it, but the reason Cosmic Voyage is so important as a book, is it raises the stakes phenomenally, because it's no longer a parlor trick.

 

Now, remote viewing, a demonstration of who we are as composite beings, remote viewing is now used to say something before it actually occurs, and when the actual ET stuff really hits, in the very near future when we really all are, the planet talking about our interplanetary neighbors, then everybody will say, wow, remote viewing really isn't a parlor trick, consciousness really matters, this stuff was all known and published in advance of it actually occurring -- that means that the understanding of who we are as beings, the nature of our soul, leaves the realm of idlers and enters the realm of the mainstream, and that is one of the most exciting planetary changes that we're going to be seeing.
 

ART BELL
The Greys. Let's do it. Who are they?

DR BROWN
Those Greys are interesting. You know, they had a bad rep. What had happened with the Greys was, the early abduction literature was filled with horror stories, about how they were abducting people in the middle of the night, performing gynecological and neurological experiments, and, and procedures, and --
 

ART BELL
Are they?

DR BROWN
Well -- in a way, but the reality is, we now know the whole picture. You see, back when we first got introduced to Greys, back in 1947 when in fact, the Roswell thing did occur, we sent people there under under totally blind conditions regularly because it's such an interesting target, there really was a crash. We can even now, find, we occasionally target even the wreckage now, where the remaining parts are, what laboratories the parts are and things like that.

 

The point is, back in 1947 when we first found out as a government about the Greys, the government was put between a rock and a hard place. What could the military tell President Truman, and all the other presidents afterwards? They could say,

"Well look Mr. President, you can tell people on the radio or on television or whatever, that the ETs are here. They have extraordinarily advanced technology. Basically we're defenseless. And that they may be doing some things to our citizens that our citizens may not particularly like. Oh and by the way Mr. President, the only other thing you could tell them is that everyone can panic at their own discretion."

And every president since Truman has said the same thing: I'm not going on the air with that.
 

ART BELL
Well I wouldn't either.

DR BROWN
You've got to give me something better, there's got to be some hope at the end of this tunnel, and one of the main reasons for Cosmic Voyage is to give the other end of the picture, to give the information that was lacking back in 1947, so we now know that in fact we're not being invaded by hostile species, if anything the Greys are, are as helpful to us as they were to the Martians, they're the calvary, the rescue corps, but the reality is, the Greys are an "extremely" interesting, "extremely" benign and helpful species.

 

Now let me explain. They had a lot of, lot of bad press. And the reason is, because they're so different from us. Let's go back. The Greys. Unlike the Martians, destroyed their own home-world. It wasn't a interplanetary holocaust that was not of their own making, they were very similar to us, except they were, they did not have the limitations that we have, that were completely telepathically aware, even back then, but, they were very similar to us in that they were burning themselves off their own home planet.

 

They basically killed their own planet through wanton abuse of their environment, greed, selfishness, the works. And what happened is, they had to go underground in order to survive. Not too dissimilar to what we're going to be facing in a hundred years -- actually less than that, about eighty -- but, the point is, they had to go underground, and when they went underground, the [?] as a matter of survival, they had a collective nervous breakdown.

 

They had -- well now we have to start fiddling with our science, with our genes. Well we'd, it'd be nicer if we were a little shorter, because it's hard to walk around in these tunnels. It'd be nicer if we had larger eyes, there's not that much light down here, down under. And then they started to saying well, you know, as smaller Beings it's harder to give birth, we might as well start raising our fetuses in, in tubes, in like, large canisters.

 

And then they started to say,

"Well look, we're getting good at this genetics manipulation stuff, why don't we solve the problem in the first place. Why don't we get rid of the rampant emotions, the greed that we have and everything else that drove us to this stuff?"

And then they did the following: You know when you have a happy experience?

 

You have happy molecules that are created electrochemically in your brain. When you have an unhappy experience, you have unhappy molecules that are created. That's why a mood takes a little while to dissipate, because the molecules are still hanging around. And the Greys said,

"Let's change our brains, genetically, so that we have only the one electrochemical response to any stimulus that we get. And we'll try to advance spiritually."

They were self-realized, in the sense they knew they were composite Beings. "We'll try to advance in the spiritual realm, and we'll get rid of all the anger, all the hostility, everything" -- they even got rid of love. On the electrochemical level. And what they have is basically a society that's not that [?] different from Spock.

 

Electrochemical brains that produce only one benign response to anything that happens to them, and they evolved spiritually, tremendously -- but they realized eventually they were in a cul-de-sac, a dead end, the reason for them Being composite beings, physical as well as subspace, was so that they could experience something in the physical realm. And then, they realized that unless they had more emotional flexibility in their minds, they couldn't be like some of the very great Beings that they discovered out in the realm.

 

They needed to experience more. Yet they were terrified of going back to their own past. They were terrified of their own past genetics. Because that's what led them into that problem, that collective nervous breakdown in the first place. They went to the Galactic Federation. All of this is explained out in detail, point by point, in the book Cosmic Voyage.

 

And they went to the Galactic Federation, served as, as outstanding members of the Federation for many projects, including rescuing the Martians, for a long time, and they eventually, finally, submitted, like going for a National Science Foundation grant, they submitted their own application, for help in a genetic uplift project for themselves. And they picked our planet, Earth, because a tremendous variety in genetic variation on this planet. And they applied to the Galactic Federation and said, may we have permission to go there and use the gene pool? They were awarded the grant.

 

They were said, they were given permission. And then, they got here, and what they do, you have to understand, we were alive before we were alive, we were alive before we were physical bodies. They go around, we've witnessed this countless times, they go around and people, human beings, or Pre-human beings, people before they are physical human beings, volunteer.

 

And they say, countless times we've seen this, and the Greys ask for permission. And the people volunteer and say,

"When I am a physical human being, I am willingly going to participate in this so-called abduction phenomenon so that you can get some of the genes to help uplift the species."

By the way, I have to say, before the commercial happens, I have to tell you, we have to come to this at the next half hour, the project works.

 

It is one of the most beautiful transformations of the species that anybody has witnessed on -- ever, and the point is, many humans volunteered before they were human, knowing full well that when they were, when they did become human, because of the limitations that we have self-imposed on ourselves with regard to our own genetics, that we would not remember the experience.

 

And when you actually have an abduction experience, you don't remember that in fact you gave permission, but the Greys are almost comical, in the way that they ask permission for "everything", and so the point is, that when we remote view, say, for example, a woman, but it happens with men too, but a woman, being abducted, being transported up to a Grey ship, having gynecological procedures going on and fetuses going in and out and so on, on the surface level if you put a meter up to her electrochemical brain it's like right at the meter, it would break the meter, panic, chaos, horror, everything: but then the remote viewer can go deeper, and we have, many times, you go into the subspace component, the subspace aspect of the person, the soul, and you find ecstasy, the reason for existence, fulfillment of purpose, and it doesn't make sense!

 

And then the remote viewer has to travel back in time, before the person was born, and you find a fully sentient being saying, "I participated."
 

ART BELL
Alright. Hold it right there, we'll be right back. Doctor Courtney Brown is my guest. There'll be more.

 

[BREAK]
 

ART BELL
Back now to Doctor, Brown. Doctor, they want you to talk more about the Greys, I've got a few phone calls I really really want to get to, but I want to ask you, where are the Greys from?

DR BROWN
They're from another planet. They're clearly not future humans. They're from another star system in our galaxy. We're not dealing with galaxies that are far away. By the way, we must understand something that's very exciting.

 

One of the remote viewing sessions that was introducing this concept, we've later gotten it much more thoroughly, but the remote viewing that I've written about in the book, Cosmic Voyage, one of the remote viewing sessions indicated that we, when we got to the Galactic Federation Headquarters, we actually had an interview, the military remote viewing was never interactive, it was always just -- they disregarded any interaction is basically what happened, but we have gotten it to the point where we actually, with telepathically capable Beings, you actually can get information backward and forward, when you're doing the remote viewing.

 

Professionals can, and what we've found out was that there, is that the Galactic Federation actually needs us, we're not just kids coming out of the daycare camp, there's actually a role for us to play, the Galactic Federation is "not" spread throughout the entire galaxy, and there's, you know, there's, it's literally like the Star Trek series {Bell: Somehow I'm not surprised.}, the Federation is expanding, and there's, you know, and there's literally [?] to explore, and things like that --
 

ART BELL
Somehow I'm not surprised. What you seem to suggest though is that genetically, without tampering, without changing genetically a race, any race, really, is ultimately doomed.

DR BROWN
Well no, no, no. Listen, listen, listen, listen. Nothing, nothing, ever, stays constant. {Bell: [?]Yes.} So in that sense, everything is doomed. The point is, evolution is the only name of the game in town. There's no other game.

 

The reason that the Greys are different from humans is that some Beings prefer the Grey experience to existence over the human experience to existence. {Bell: I understand.} And we choose to enter the human realm and to participate in this human realm for awhile until we get tired of it and move on, but the difference is, is that there is endless variation to existence, and some experiences are different than others. And the Greys experience life differently than us.

 

Now. Art. Before we run out of time, I - I just have to say one thing. I'm a very controlled remote viewer, in the sense that, I'm fully professional, I run a school, actually there's a number of people, a whole bunch of us running it now, but the point is, that in a remote viewing session, I never "lose it," in the sense of, you know, any emotions I get are clearly put in the right spot and I don't, they don't affect what I'm doing. But twice, I almost lost it. Let me tell you those two experiences.

 

The first, was when I remote viewed the future Greys. The result of this genetic project. The Greys found they needed a new experience, a different experience. They didn't want their old genetics, they wanted something brand new, they wanted part of our genes. They don't want the whole thing, they consider us a dysfunctional species in some regards. {Bell: Oh, we are.} We're aggressive, we're territorial, we fight, look at our divorce rate, look at how we treat kids a lot of times, or the homeless people.

 

Well, they don't want our aggression, our hate, our anger, our fear, our territoriality, they don't want that. But, they do want the love, the nurturing, the caring, all the good things. And so those are the genes that produce those type of electrochemical responses for love, caring, nurturing, things like that, that they're splicing in, slowly but surely, into their own genetic framework.

 

And when we have remote viewed the future, the first time I did this, the future of the Greys, when you go to their planet, yes they have a planet, a future planet, when you go to the planet where they take this race, that literally is our grandchildren, they are our offspring, they're half us {Bell: I understand.}, and when you go to this planet, and look at them, and do a mind probe and perceive them, it can, it's just one of the most beautiful things anyone could ever see.

 

They're like, you know we've also remote viewed famous personalities, like Jesus, Buddha, things like that -- why not? They lived at one time, they -- obviously no one dies, so you can remote view them at any time.

 

And the Jesus personality is a very interesting personality. When I remote viewed the Greys, the big difference between the personality of Jesus and the personality of the Greys was that Jesus had more of a command structure, more of a command personality, more of a, you know, sort of an authority type of -- very pleasant, but you have to sort of experience it, the words don't do it justice -- but Jesus is a very beautiful personality to remote view, we send trainees there from time to time, he's been very cooperative under completely blind situations.

 

But, with the Greys, it's like that, you get all the love, all the nurturing, all the caring, none of the hostility, they're like the types of people you want next door, the ones who always have a cup of sugar when you need it. {Bell: Good neighbors, yeah.}

 

And now the other time, the second time, that I almost lost it in a remote viewing session, and what that means is I almost had to just break off the session, the emotions were so overwhelming, is the emotions of the target were so overwhelming to me.

 

Was when I remote viewed the Martian flotilla, leaving Mars, finally, when the day of exodus, like the, like the Israelis, Israelites leaving Egypt, the day of exodus when they leave their prison planet and come here, that flotilla -- it almost chokes me up when I just think about it -- but, the emotions of those people, the euphoria, of coming, to the promised land, Earth, coming out of their imprisonment to the promised land, the emotions inside that flotilla when it comes in our not distant future, is just one of the most remarkable states of emotional awareness that has ever been experienced by anybody. {Bell: Alright, I --}

 

They're happy to come here.
 

ART BELL
Doctor, we've got to take a couple of calls. I have people waiting, so let's do it. First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Brown, hello.

 

CALLER

Good morning Art. you've absolutely outdone yourself this time, this is incredible. Doctor Brown, good morning to you.

DR BROWN
Good morning, and I want to thank you for calling.
 

ART BELL
Where are you Sir?

 

CALLER

[?] Colorado, [listening to you on KCSB out of Pueblo], and Doctor Brown, I'm a skeptic, but I'm an open minded skeptic, and I'm one of these "show-me" type people --

DR BROWN
That's healthy.

 

CALLER

And I'm going to, I'm going to get your book tomorrow, and I'm wondering if I'll be able to find information in that about your, your initial one week seminar there --

DR BROWN
Absolute -- well actually, in the back of the book, there is a section for contacting the author at the Farsight Institute, so the, the PO Box and everything, the address, is there in the book. I want to also say that in the web page, people can contact us on the web page, and we're also in the phone book and stuff like that, we have information packets, plus applications that we mail out.

 

In addition, if you go onto the web page, you can not only find us, find out about us, but you can also see some of the student results, we're trying to get them posted as fast as we can, by the end of the summer we'll have a whole bunch of new stuff, but we've got a, we've got 11 people's stuff posted now, and lots more is coming {Bell: Alright --} -- yeah --
 

ART BELL
Thank you very much, so there's the answer, caller, all the information you need, for contact is in the book, and the book is in any, just about all the bookstores --

DR BROWN
It's in all the bookstores, it's selling very very well and I should also say that there eventually will be a paperback version, but that probably won't be 'till 1997. {Bell: {laughs}} By the way if a bookstore's sold out, just tell them to order it, they can get it quickly.
 

ART BELL
Alright. Wild Card line, you're on the air with Professor Brown. Hi. Where are you?

 

CALLER

Hi. I'm in Toronto, Canada. Doctor Brown, you were talking about Roswell {Brown: Yeah.}, and I was wondering if the Army has possession of the bodies, if there were bodies that were found, and if they were Martian or they were Grey, or do you have any description on that.
 

ART BELL
Good question.

DR BROWN
They were Grey, they were not Martian. You know the odd thing about that Roswell event -- by the way yes, the wreckage is is still around, we even send some remote viewers from time to time to the current location of the wreckage, it's sort of -- when you get to the point where you can do things like this, you have to think of new targets that will keep the --
 

ART BELL
I understand. Where is, where is the wreckage?

DR BROWN
Actually, you know, to locate it geographically is something you can't do with a trainee, and that's all we've done, we've send trainees to the actual location and they get identical descriptions of this type of thing. But to locate the actual geographical location you need a full project, and that we just have not had the resources to do yet. {Bell: Alright -- } Cosmic Voyage is a full project, we have some full projects, Cosmic Voyage is a printed full project --

DR BROWN
I am beginning to understand the difference. East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Brown, hello.

 

CALLER

yes, this is Bill in Minnesota. yes, Professor Brown, I'm wondering how do your administrative supervisors at Emory University how much do they know about your work, and how do they feel about it?
 

ART BELL
Good question.

DR BROWN
Oh they know, they know all about what I do. But I do, I do different things at Emory than I do at the Farsight Institute, I've clearly separated them out, and also, they have a very great respect for academic freedom here at Emory, so at the Farsight Institute, which is a private institute, we teach the remote viewing, we talk about these things, and at Emory University I teach my courses in, in non-linear mathematical applications of social scientific phenomenon, and other things like that.

 

I keep those things basically separated, and, and Emory has a very very strong tradition of intellectual freedom, it's one of the most prestigious universities in the country, but I must stay that it started out, as a, as a Methodist university, long, long ago, so it was founded on the basic idea that there is something real to the unseen.

 

CALLER

I mean, are they generally supportive, are they, don't consider you sort of an oddball or something like that?

DR BROWN
Well you know it's more benign neglect than anything else, and that's the way it should be, because that's the way, I've, I've asked it to be that way.
 

ART BELL
{laughs} Alright, fair enough. West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Doctor Brown, hi.

 

CALLER

Hi this is Dawn, I'm calling from Phoenix Arizona. I have a question about as far as research you've done, and your studies at the college there, have you ever had a situation where any of your controlled subjects had an experience, or told you about, control stations dealing with influences about remote viewing, of a different kind, not so controlled, on a deeper level? I'm trying my best here to attempt this...

DR BROWN
Explain it a little more. I don't quite understand --

 

CALLER

I have done remote viewing, with control stations throughout the United States, I have worked with the government, the military, I am a subject of a different approach of that one aspect of remote viewing. And I wondered if they have ever seen anything of the nature of, you know, government, computer systems, people -- literally, things tapping into your brain -- [inaudible as Brown and caller talk at the same time]

DR BROWN
I have no -- you know, one of the good things about being a Professor is you, you have the authority to say, you don't know. And to be quite honest, I don't know. We haven't had any experiences with seeing anything like that, that doesn't mean something like that doesn't occur, I know some people in the military, in the official military remote viewing project, have stated to me on occasion that they think such things go on, and some of the -- I don't know -- but I don't know anything about it.
 

ART BELL
OK, good enough. Let's let's continue, we only have a very few moments, and I've kind of ignored the phones, first time caller line, you're on the air with Doctor Brown.

 

CALLER

Good morning.
 

ART BELL
Good morning, where are you?

 

CALLER

Southern Utah. I'd like to ask Courtney Brown a question. My question is I know Joe McMoneagle, I was at Monroe Institute for two different weeks, I'd like to find out, phone numbers on how to get a hold of this Farsight Institute.
 

ART BELL
Do you want to give that out, Doctor?

DR BROWN
Oh sure. Actually, the best way is to write us though, because we're overwhelmed after a show like this, with the phones, and but I will give out the phone number, but let me give out two phone numbers, the fax number is something good, because something physically written like a letter or a fax is always better because we have an address we can clearly get, and the fax number is 404-636-5148 .

 

And if you faxed us your address and so on like that, then we can get information packets to you. And the regular phone number, and if the secretary's not in there'll be a computer voice mail system that will allow you to leave address and so on like that, is 404-320-2007 . But it's much better to other than leaving voice message, it's much better to actually write us, at Farsight Institute, PO Box 49243 Atlanta GA 30359 USA.

 

The address for that is in the back of the book, Cosmic Voyage. And for people who are interested in remote viewing training, a very good first step is often just to get the book, and ask for an information packet, and we send it right out. And to those people who do have Internet access of course, you can get "immediate" satisfaction by just zipping through our home page.
 

ART BELL
So Doctor you are right now at the home of the Olympics, which have just gotten underway -- you have not taken a look at whether they're going to be safe, have you?

DR BROWN
No, we haven't looked at that. You know, you have to understand that there's so many projects and the, the things that are sort of, current events happening right now, it's very hard, given the number of people we have trained right now, to mobilize things for sure like that.

 

In the future, when there are literally more remote viewers and more projects going on, then we'll be able to do things like that. But at this current time I'm just looking like everybody else is looking, at the television and wondering what's happening.
 

ART BELL
Alright. East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Doctor Brown, hi.

 

CALLER

Yes hello, this is Mark in [?] Kentucky. I came in a little bit late, so I apologize if this has already. I'm like one of the other callers, I'm a little bit skeptical with some of this, I was wondering if Doctor Brown could give us any kind of an unequivocable, undeniable future event, in the near future, so that we can confirm this really works.

DR BROWN
Absolutely. Go out and buy the book Cosmic Voyage, I've put my whole reputation on the line with that. The point is, it's printed, it's in print, and it's either true, or it's not true, you don't have to argue about it, in the sense that, someone can say you cross the street, you can talk to them about it and you can say, well what do you think, and they can want to get into an argument about it, and you know what you can say? Just say hey, there's no use in arguing, let's just wait a while.

 

Patience is a virtue. And if it turns out to be true, you'll know it. The books is the proof. If it turns out that, that there are no Martians, that there are no Greys, then you know, I'm ruined. I'm not a gambler, I'm not going to be ruined. But the point is, the book is the proof. It's the biggest proof that'll ever be needed.

 

In fact it's written precisely to be that way, so that the question of, of whether we actually have a composite, a composite nature, whether remote viewing actually works -- that will be totally and irrevocably removed from our setting, from our agenda, forever, when the ET stuff finally happens.
 

ART BELL
Well Doctor, we're running out of time. Um --

DR BROWN
It's been a joy.
 

ART BELL
It really has been a pleasure to have you. And we will -- obviously, there's so much untouched ground that we will have you back again.

DR BROWN
Well, I will be very pleased and always honored, whenever you invite me to come.
 

ART BELL
Doctor, get some sleep.

DR BROWN
I shall.
 

ART BELL
Thank you my friend.

DR BROWN
Thank you Art, and you have a great day.
 

ART BELL
And goodnight. Alright everybody, that was Professor Courtney Brown, and many many many of you have requested his presence on this program for a long time, and, so we finally connected. Now, I would like to close by thanking all of you who have no doubt stayed with us throughout the night.

 

I will tell you to get a copy of the absolutely incredible program that you just heard, you can call 24 hours a day, 800-917-4278 . That would be the program you just heard with Professor Courtney Brown of the Farsight Institute and Emory University.

[end]