Jeff Rense Show

Sightings on the Radio - 1998

Jeff Rense ~ Hi once again, everybody. A great program for you tonight as we always try to put information up for you to entertain with and to help expand your mind. Of all the extraordinary guests weíve had in the four years Iíve done this program certainly no one has created more of a reaction from our listening audience than Englandís intelligent, articulate author and modern day global Paul Revere, David Icke. Davidís appearances here have always left people talking and thinking and tonight weíre going to go on another expedition into the world of government coverup and control of the human mind with David Icke who has been traveling half way around the world researching, talking, and listening since we last visited with him. That visit with David coming up in one hour here at Sightings on the Radio.

Jeff Rense ~ Welcome to hour two of Sightings on the Radio. One of the topics covered here from time to time is the issue of government coverup and weíre going to take a close look at the highest level of research tonight with a gentleman Iíve known for some time now, David Icke. He is quite a fellow. Of all the extraordinary guests Iíve ever had on the program nobody has created more of a reaction from our listeners than probably Englandís David Icke. He is, of course, very articulate, eloquent, personable, charming, sophisticated, and most informally, I would say.... well, heís fascinating.

One of the most mysterious aspects of our society as many of you would agree, I think, is the control and conditioning of people through the mass media. Weíve been talking about that a bit tonight already and many other means as well. Few of us really understand how that is done. The control of people is exerted through the entire gamut of our social fabric from the mind game to mass media entertainment, from TV to the movies.

David Icke, spelled I-C-K-E in case youíre wondering is a former BBC correspondent, an author and a lecturer, and he is back again in the U.S. after a series of seminars promoting his publications, his books most notably and most recently entitled "...And the Truth Shall Set You Free" already tagged by more than a few reviewers as maybe the most explosive book of the twentieth century. David Icke, are you there?

David Icke ~ Jeff?

Jeff Rense ~ How are you?

David Icke ~ Well, after an introduction like that I think Iíll quit while Iím ahead, you know!

Jeff Rense ~ Well, okay. Weíll see you next time. Well, where have you been?

David Icke ~ Oh, my goodness. Everywhere. Since the turn of the year Iíve been in eight countries. Iíve come into America via Iceland. Iím sort of getting everywhere these days. It is fascinating to see whatever country I go into no matter what the culture or background is, two things are happening. First of all, there is a spiritual awakening going on. Not a religious awakening, but a spiritual awakening. People are beginning to open their eyes and their minds to the greater picture of who they are and the nature of life itself. And the other thing thatís happening is that people are beginning to open their minds to maybe the world is not quite what weíre led to believe by the mantra messages that pound at us all the time giving us a very narrow and I would suggest a very flawed and distorted view of whatís actually happening in the world.

Jeff Rense ~ These mantra messages that come out to us all the time can take the form of advertising jingles to popular music. They are literally wrote after a period of time. They are memorized involuntarily by most people. Theyíre in there and they influence people in ways that the average person would never figure out.

David Icke ~ Absolutely. I mean, Iím sitting here in Atlanta where Iím talking at two almost simultaneous conferences. One is about mind control and Satanic ritual abuse which people have suffered. And the two go together because trauma is a tremendous form of mind control including on a mass scale. Itís been shown very clearly that a traumatized mind is much more open to suggestion so when we have horrendous, mass traumatizing events like Oklahoma or what we had in Scotland, Dunblaine, when the guy went into school with a gun. That really does traumatize the mass consciousness and makes them more open to suggestion. Whatís interesting that you can actually observe, Jeff, is it doesnít matter if youíre looking at... what weíre looking at here, weíre talking about mind control and emotional manipulation and thatís not an exaggeration.

What is mind control? It is getting someone to think and therefore behave the way you want them to. Now under that criteria virtually everyone on the planetís mind controlled. And if you look at the way itís done. Iíve done a hell of a lot of research in the last year into individual mind control and stuff and thatís continuing here where Iím not even talking but listening very intently to what other people are saying and what people have experienced.

But if you look at what actually happens. If you look at
MK-ULTRA and other mind control projects around the world in the last few decades and you look at the basis of what happens. You individually mind control someone by wiping them clean of their sense of individuality, their sense of self, their sense of uniqueness, their sense of filtering, their sense of questioning, their sense of coming to their truth. You want them to come to your version of reality. You then replace that blank sheet of paper, if you like, with the personality that you want which is a reactive personality which will react to certain stimulae as soon as you provide that, the reaction will be exactly as planned.

You go to the next level and you look at what they do when you go into the military all over the world. What theyíre doing from day one is seeking to wipe you clean of your sense of self, your sense of individuality, your sense of questioning, your sense of uniqueness, your sense of coming to your truth. They want a "Yes, Sir!" personality who will just start shooting at people theyíve never met and have done nothing to them because some guy in a cap shouts, "Shoot!".

And then you go to the mass level and exactly the same is happening. We are being conditioned from birth to give up our right to think for ourselves, to come to our own conclusions, to express our uniqueness, and to conform to a herd mentality which is basically a reactive mentality. If you look at some of the mass mind controlling techniques and emotional manipulation techniques, youíre actually looking at stimulae which are designed to get a distinct reaction.

And this happens all the time. If they can get you angry, if they can get you resentful, if they can get you to feel guilty, they got you because youíre going to react to events or statements or things that happen in the world which theyíre setting upon a way that they want you to because, of course, this is now a science, the manipulation of the mass consciousness. This organization in London called the
Tavistock Institute of Human Relations which links into Stanford and other places around the world. Well, thereís literally just... looking at how the mass consciousness reacts in certain circumstances so they know that if that stimulae will get that reaction when we need that reaction, weíll just pull that stimulae. It becomes a very, you know, cause and effect thing.

Jeff Rense ~ We used to call it íbrainwashingí. You know, you talk all the time on this program and wherever you speak on our sense of uniqueness, our sense of filtering, our sense of individual expression being perhaps the most important thing as individuals and thatís the number one target of mass merchandisers, marketing, advertising, whether theyíre trying to condition people to buy candy bars, buy a specific soft drink, or vote for a certain candidate itís the exact same technique. It always struck me as rather sad that even in high schools or even junior high or elementary schools, basic human motivation is not being taught. I guess that would tend to let the cat out of the bag.

David Icke ~ Yeah, and I think, you know, weíre actually at the heart here of how this planet is controlled by a few people because it has to be done through the mind and the emotions because you canít do it physically. Itís just impossible with too many people. And if you look at it, whatís happened is that we have actually out sheeped the sheep now. We laugh at sheep when they follow the one out front and then they succumb to the fear of the sheep dog and stuff like that. Weíve actually gone one step further than the sheep because weíve dispensed of the sheep dog. We police each other.

This means that all you have to do to set the foundations of running the entire planet in terms of its direction to be able to control via the education system or what passes for it and the mantra messages through the media and therefore on through that to peer pressure where one conditioned group imposes its conditioning on other groups because itís become a crime to be different.

And this sets the limits of normal thought behavior and what have you in the world and because most people just follow the norms like sheep following the one in front, the baa-baa mentality and others who question the norms but are terrified of saying so because they fear the reaction of people around them.

That combination of the baa-baa mentality which accounts for the majority of sheep and the fear mentality which accounts for the minority of the dumb media they conform are exactly the two states of being that control the mass consciousness and turn five billion unique aspects of infinity into a two legged bewildered herd which is what weíve become. And then, of course, you go one step further and you ask, "Who polices the herd?" Well, the herd polices itself because in whatever area of our lives weíre talking about, if youíre different then you are inviting ridicule and condemnation for that what is now a crime.

Jeff Rense ~ You know, all you have to do, David, is go to any elementary school and watch quietly and youíll see it at work. If one child acts a little differently, he or she becomes the object of ridicule and teasing instantly.

David Icke ~ Exactly. Because it is the herd mentality. And many teachers in the education community have not got a clue that theyíre actually not teachers but indoctrinators. I spoke in Australia earlier this year and I was standing is this lecture theatre in Melbourne waiting to start, just sort of pondering and stuff, and it became very obvious. I just looked at the scene. In front of me was a bank of people sitting in the seats and the desks were right there writing their stuff down. And Iím looking at a free energy machine called education which just indoctrinates one generation with the knowledge of the previous one.

Jeff Rense ~ Yeah, let me ask you to hold it right there, David, if you will. We have to take our first break. Then weíll come right back and pick it up right there with my guest tonight for the second two hours of Sightings on the Radio, David Icke. Iím Jeff Rense and this is the Premiere Radio network.




Jeff Rense ~ Weíre back and weíre talking with David Icke who is in Atlanta tonight. A globetrotter if there ever was one. David, you were into a story about watching people in Australia down in Melbourne. Please go ahead with that.

David Icke ~ Yeah. I was sort of standing in front of this assembled group. It hit me that I was looking at a free energy machine, an indoctrination machine because, I donít know, about three or four times a day, someone would walk in front of those people, students in a lecture theatre. And how many lecture theatres are in the world. Millions and millions and millions. And this happens in all of them everyday.

And the person standing there is a professor of something or other who has become a professor because he has spent his entire carrier telling the system what it wanted to hear otherwise he wouldnít have progressed to become one. He then gives the assembled students of the next generation what he has been indoctrinated to tell them. And they write it all down and if they donít tell the exam paper what heís told them then they donít pass and progress within the system either. And then the whole thing goes into the next generation and so on and so forth.

So itís basically complete nonsensism. My goodness me. At least in the area of history are taught total total bunkom. It just gets passed on from generation to generation. The pressure is just tell the system what it wants to hear or the system will kick you out.

And, you know, my son is fifteen back in England and he has trouble with the teachers at his school because he will not be indoctrinated. He does terrible things like ask them questions and ask them to justify what theyíre telling him he should believe. And a few weeks ago I just sent a little note saying why he had been away one afternoon and I said, "Maybe it might have been good for him to get away from being indoctrinated and told what to wear and what to think," because in this school they sent around a letter to parents saying that for next term, boys should not come to school with shirts that have two pockets in them. They must only have one.

I mean, talk about turning out clones. The next generation. And I mentioned in this letter that I thought an afternoon off from being brainwashed might be a beneficial thing for him and the teacher came on the phone the next day and talked to my wife --unfortunately, I wasnít there -- and completely agasped that anyone should think that indoctrinationís going on. And twenty minutes later after sheíd finished explaining how the education system works to a teacher, he realized that actually indoctrination was going on and he hadnít even thought about it.

Jeff Rense ~ Hmmm. Well, you made a small chip there.

David Icke ~ But itís... what Iím saying here, Jeff. The point Iím making is that most people who are serving this system of indoctrinization...

Jeff Rense ~ They have no idea.

David Icke ~ ... have no idea theyíre doing it.

Jeff Rense ~ No. Theyíre part of the machine and they donít see it. Theyíre standing right in the middle of it. The issue of peer pressure, herd mentality. Honestly, in the last couple of years, I have seen some things that are amazing to me. What we are seeing now is a syndrome of almost mass mutilation. Iím talking about the piercing of the human body. Nose. Tongue. Lips. Other areas that you canít see unless youíre at the beach and then areas that you canít see even then. If I see any more people open their mouth with three or four studs in their tongue, you know, Iím just going to roll out of here. Itís getting to the point now where these people are absolutely doing everything possible short of cutting off an ear. I donít know where itís going, but that and tattoos and then they also have something called branding which is actually the searing of the skin. So where is this coming from? This self degradation.

David Icke ~ Well, I think that there are a lot of things going on which even people who have researched into mind control and manipulation donít even appreciate. You really got to go back into ancient history and pick this whole stream of control up and Iíve done a heck of a lot of research in the last year into this and Iím just about to start writing a book telling the story from ancient times right up to the present day. And you can actually chart indeed right back to the 1200-1300ís and a group called the Knights Templar at the time of the Crusades. You can chart this controlling force back quite comfortably to that point and increasingly beyond that. Basically what you find is that there has always been a level of knowledge which has been held by the few and kept out of the public arena.

Years ago, centuries ago, it was maps of the world, for instance. One of things that people didnít realize didnít existed as I show in my books and Iíll show in greater detail in this one.
Christopher Columbus wasnít looking for India and then tripped over and then found the Americas. He knew it was here. He was connected to something called the Knights of Christ. His father-in-law was a member of this secret society in Portugal which was based in Portugal. The Knights of Christ were just another name for the Knights Templar who had been purged in France in 1307 by the king of France. By that time they rivaled the Roman Church for wealth and influence which history has kind of written them out. They were fantastically powerful and indeed the banking system we have today is pretty much come from their structure.

You also then follow another group of Templars who got out of France and they went up to Scotland and reemerged as the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry which today pervades the banking system, the political system, the business system of the world, etcetera. So right back there there was knowledge held which was not available in the public arena. And this goes back to ancient times. And some of this knowledge relates to mind control, knowledge of what consciousness is, because the ancients knew far more than we ever believed.

And incidentally I was in a church up in Scotland a few weeks ago earlier this month called Rosslyn Chapel and which was actually built by the Sinclair family which became the Scottish Sinclair family, a family which are at the heart of this Knights Templar secret society. And youíll see in the stone work and Iíve seen it myself things like sweet corn plants and cactus plants that were only found in America. And that church and that stone were done considerably before Columbus left to quote ífind the Americasí. So thereís so much in history alone that we donít know about.

This knowledge has obviously been passed through the upper levels of the secret society network while at the same time through this period of history weíre looking at, this same force has created institutions in the public arena like
the Roman Church and various other institutions to take the knowledge out. And if you look at what happened with the British Empire and such like Britain and particularly Germany and London, are at the heart at this global manipulation at the secret society level. When the European people came to America, they basically destroyed it as it was the Native American culture. They took that knowledge out of wide circulation. When the Spanish went to Central and South America, they did exactly the same. When the British went to Australia and New Zealand, they did the same. When the Europeans went to Africa, they did the same. Knowledge of many things were taken out of circulation. And as it went out of circulation more and more, the people at the top of the pyramid horded that knowledge, and it significantly applies to the nature of consciousness and how to manipulate it, what it is, etcetera, etcetera.

Jeff Rense ~ Are we at an all time low, David, in terms of accessible knowledge vis a vis the mass of humanity even though we have such things as the internet now beginning to turn that around but in general when you are at the mercy of the mass media in this country, is our knowledge base pretty low?

David Icke ~ Well, I think itís desperately low but improving the more that people stand up and speak out which is happening more and more now. And thatís fantastic. And peoplesí minds are becoming more open. Not the majority yet but more are becoming more open to other things to try to explain the apparently unexplained things that go on in the world. But, I think that all over one side is played up against the other. There is in the Christian world this idea that there is such a thing as good and bad knowledge. So something that is different to the norm is considered "the occult Itís the devil" when itís just the negative use of knowledge. Knowledge can be used positively or negatively and weíre throwing out the baby with the bath water here, I think, with some of this condemnation of knowledge which is actually the way out of here.

Jeff Rense ~ Yes, indeed. David Icke is my guest and weíll be right back to talk with David about many things. Weíll be right back.




Jeff Rense ~ David, in our first hour we had a chat with Susan Michaels and a gentleman called in and just couldnít believe there was any kind of a conspiracy. Iím not belittling that. A lot of people agree with him that there could not be a conspiracy in the mainstream media to keep the UFO issue hidden and to actually foment, perpetrate, and underwrite a fifty year coverup. He said it would be too big of a secret to keep. The average person doesnít understand that íthe governmentí, weíll put that in quotes, is perfectly capable of keeping secrets over long periods of time and yet the evidence to sustain that concept is overwhelming.

David Icke ~ Well, I think, I heard someone say today at one of these conferences that governments donít have to keep big secrets because secrets keep themselves. They have to keep little secrets. The reason the big secrets keep themselves is because if you can condition into someone a certain view of reality which is light years away from the truth, if the truth does actually come out no one believes it because itís so far from the conditioned view of reality that youíve taken on. So big lies, big secrets, they tend to take care of themselves because no one believes them. "Oh, no, mate! Thatís too far fetched!" The idea of the presidents of the United States and leading politicians in Britain are abusing mind control children as young as 1-2-3. I mean, that is so far from peoplesí reality, and more than that, so far from peoplesí desires to accept it, because it says so much about the world and what have you, that people go into denial about it, so the big secrets keep themselves.

I have come across actually, talking about the UFO thing, an interesting quote which was given to me in England just before I came out here and I havenít had a chance to check it. But certainly the basis of it seems certainly plausible to me in my research. A quote by Henry Kissinger which a Swiss delegate was supposed to have written down at
the Bilderberger meeting, this secret, semi-secret organization.

Jeff Rense ~ Oh, I know this quote. Yeah, I know. If itís true, itís a powerhouse.

David Icke ~ Yeah. About the U.N. troops and stuff.

Jeff Rense ~ Pretty good, if you have it.

David Icke ~ Well, I will. Iíve got it here, but I think, that the point I made a number of times when weíve talked to each other, Jeff, and I think is a vital one to keep ramming home, is this idea of Problem-Reaction-Solution. Create the problem. Get the reaction. Offer the solution. And I must say. I have started to look at this UFO thing and I donít have a problem with the existence of extraterrestrials. I mean, the idea that weíre the only species that exists is so ludicrous. I mean, you know, come wake me up, mother. Anyone can try and get us to believe that, but I think the whole subject can be manipulated especially as we have our pyramid again with knowledge at the top and the people in ignorance of that knowledge in the rest of the pyramid.

And I think that particularly applies to the UFO thing. And I actually started to look. And suddenly thereís all this suppression of stuff, UFOís and extraterrestrials and what have you. And yet now suddenly through Hollywood and other mass audience programs, weíve had the same prime time in Britain recently, this whole UFO thing starts to come out. A lot of it has been fear based. And, you know, Hollywood is one of the greatest forms of global mind manipulation. I mean, you ask a lot of people in the world for their version of history and various historical events and theyíll give you Hollywoodís version. I remember during the Fifties and Sixties when I was a kid, we used to have cowboys and indians films on the telly every Sunday and it indoctrinated people to a totally misrepresented view of actually what happened in that period like...

Jeff Rense ~ You know, Iíve made that point before that Hollywood is by and large responsible for much of the commonly held views of American history. Hollywood basically invented American history.

David Icke ~ Absolutely. And what weíve got here is a quote from Henry Kissinger that is appearing to be using this UFO, this fear of an extraterrestrial invasion etcetera, as a Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario. Yet the problem, even if it is a manufactured one like this, you get the reaction ísomething must be doneí and if you can get the fear reaction, then youíve really got people and then you offer the solution and as Iíve talked about and written about many times one of the parts of the agenda that is unfolding is the creation of a centralized world army and central control and the Kissinger quote says this:

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told thereís an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."

And itís a classic Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario, this one. And, of course, back in the Sixties there was a report called the report from Iron Mountain which was reported about 1966, it is said. And it was fifteen experts in various fields that were asked to produce a report on how to centralize control and manipulate the mass population without further recourse to wars which is how it had been done up to that point.

And two of the things which they suggested was 1) a threat to the global environment: global problem, global reaction which allows you to offer your global solution. From 1968, two years after that report was apparently finished, came
the Club of Rome which is an organization set up by the very people who are running this agenda. And we had the environmental thing all the way through the last twenty years which has actually used Problem-Reaction-Solution to get penned global laws and what have you and the fear of the environment. Now Iím not saying thereís not any environmental problem. My question is,

"Why are the people who are funding and fronting often the major global environmental reports and events like the 1992 Earth Summit in Brazil... Why is it the same people who are quite demonstrably dismantling the worldís ecology?"

And another one of the report from Iron Mountainís suggestions was, back in the Sixties now, a threat from an extraterrestrial force and I think we could be seeing that scenario unfolding here as this myth is created that we should be terrified of extraterrestrial invasion which will lead us to give all of our power away to a world war cabinet and a global army to exactly as Kissingerís quote says: to give our power away in fear of what will happen.

Jeff Rense ~ Thatís a remarkable quote. Also the global financial structure will be quickly retooled to underwrite one basic financial currency and so on and so forth. This is all coming. The debit card has now taken charge and is now rivaling the credit card in this country. (David: Yeah.) Cashless society. Itís not necessarily... itís almost a natural evolution when you consider the history of this world for the last two thousand years and as you have pointed out so many times the basic same people or same power structure is in place today as was 500-1000 years or even longer ago.

David Icke ~ Exactly. And when people donít do that research, I understand it. They think, "Oh, come on!". But you can chart it back. I mean, you know, it is there to be seen. And I think that what is happening now is this awakening thatís going on around the world and people are opening their eyes more and more. I think this agenda is being pressed forward quicker and quicker.

Jeff Rense ~ A lot of people agree with that, David. Thereís a rush under way now to get it in place to create the problem with as much fear as possible as quickly as possible. Some people are suggesting it may be a combination of induced earth changes. Environmental catastrophe could easily be fomented in the media. Itís bad enough but then they can boost it up. And then you introduce with holograms or hardware that we probably have had for a number of years craft, ET looking craft. It would be so easy to stampede people, itís not even funny.

David Icke ~ Oh, yeah. And if thereís anyone out there whoís listening to this that thinks what youíve just said is ludicrous, I would refer them to "War of the Worlds", 1938, I think it was, Orson Welles standing in a studio claiming to be at the scene of a Martian landing. I think it was in New Jersey and all hell broke loose where he was supposed to be, but wasnít. And thereís no doubt in my mind anyway, having talked to lots of people in various parts of the U.S. over the last year or so, that the government do have what we call flying saucer technology.

Jeff Rense ~ And weíve had guests on the program, David, very recently that say weíve had it for thirty years.

David Icke ~ I agree with that.

Jeff Rense ~ And what we have now is ultra advanced and so forth and amazing quotes are popping up. We live in a wild time. No doubt. David Icke, the guest. Weíll be back in just a couple of minutes here at Sightings on the Radio.




Jeff Rense ~ And we are back and it is my pleasure to be speaking to a friend of some duration, one of the most provocative people Iíve ever met -- David Icke, author of many books including his most recent best seller "....And the Truth Shall Set You Free". Weíll give you the number to order that book and find out about Davidís other products and hear of his other books in just a few minutes. Jim is on the line now calling in from Everett-Seattle listening in on KRKO. Jim, youíre on the air with David Icke. Go right ahead.

Caller - Thank you, Jeff. Thanks very much. And David too. Question about the Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario that you just mentioned, David. A lot of talk about these created events that are coming that are prophesied namely through remote viewing. And thereís a gentleman who has talked about a problem in North and South Korea of probable or possible war. I noticed the network news are talking about that and this guy -- I donít know if you want me to mention his name or not, but --

Jeff Rense ~ Go ahead, Jim. If he doesnít mind, we donít mind.

Caller - Ed Dames.

Jeff Rense ~ Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Caller - Prominent, prominent remote viewer who talks about the first use of a limited nuclear device in the North Korea theatre as a result to spread mayhem and terror, and so forth. And I just wondered if that sits into the scenario that David talks about.

David Icke ~ It certainly does and Iíve been talking to someone who would be aware of things that are going on in the Middle East and he is absolutely convinced that there is a quote íterroristí scenario there that involve some sort of an explosion probably at the Mosque on Temple Mount -- of course, that which held sacred by the Moslems but sacred by many other religions too -- the supposed site of Solomonís Temple and Herodís Temple and what have you. And, of course, if something like that happened and it was put at the hands of the Israelis then there would be a bloodbath in the Middle East beyond words. And that would draw in Europe.

Now weíve already set the precedent here: Problem-Reaction-Solution. Weíve gone from a U.N. peace keeping into a NATO led peace keeping operation. 60,000 strong world army in Bosnia. And as Iíve pointed out in talks with Jeff before. If you look at the main peace negotiators in Bosnia from the start to the end of that conflict, and I donít think weíve seen the end of it yet myself. Youíre looking at, whether theyíre U.N. or European Union appointed people, they are members of the same organizations:
The Bildeberg, the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London.

And thereís nothing that changes society more than a war and thereís nothing that creates fear more than a war. So I think this Korean thing certainly fits in. And I think that the China card could well be played because for a long time we had the cold war and what was kind of funny, I just come down from speaking in Iceland and I actually spoke in Reikiavik right next to the house where Reagan and Gorbochev met. You remember they talked about the (unintelligible). Well, Iíll tell you what I found fascinating. These people work with these energies and they know about the
Earth energy grid. They know about astrological energies. They know about all stuff. They never meet anywhere in anyplace at anytime unless it all works out that way. And things like Freemasonic lodges are actually built on vortex points on the Earth grid and ley line points. And Iím speaking at this hall in Reikiavik and on one side of the hall is the main Masonic temple for Iceland and what thirty seconds walk away on the other side is the house where Reagan and Gorbachev met.

So this whole Cold War thing was actually a setup to create fear on both sides. And Iíve talked to some people who actually were staggered to realize -- on the peripheries, nothing like the top of the pyramid of the Intelligence community, but enough to be in on this sort of stuff -- but technological transfers were going on through the Cold War from America to the Soviet Union to keep the parity so the justification for more arms spending and fear was there. And then, of course, then came the point in this agenda unfolding where NATO and the European Union were doing this agenda to start encompassing the countries of the former Soviet Union. So, of course, we couldnít have the evil empire anymore and this was part of what Recuvich was about. We had to produce Gorbachev, a close associate of
David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger, to start smiling a bit and become the first Russian leader who didnít look like he had just come back from a funeral and everyone sort of just got comfortable and the Berlin Wall came down and suddenly the whole evil empire was dismantled very, very quickly.

And then what has happened? NATO and the European Union are talking about encompassing those countries which basically leaves one major power left that could be used as the Soviet Union was used before and that is China. And I think that that and the fear of the Muslim world which is an old one thatís been predicted, actually could be played. Because I think that what Jeff has said is absolutely right in that weíre coming now to a point in this agenda where certain things need to happen. People are waking up.

The challenge is coming into all this knowledge and actually the agenda unfolding of what it is. And I think everything is going to be thrown in the next few years to create and fear which will just leave people in a position of where theyíll just say, "Something must be done to stop this!" and theyíll accept any solution. And that will be world army, world central bank, world currency, world government, and a microchipped population. And that starts the agenda.

Jeff Rense ~ Alright. Coming up on a break. Jimís going to hang on. Weíll give you another shot here (David: Thanks. Jeff Rense ~ Sure) right after this three minute timeout here at Sightings on the Radio. My guest, David Icke, and weíll be right back in just a couple moments so stay with us.



Jeff Rense ~ Okay. We are back. Letís go back up to Jim in Seattle listening in on KRKO. Go ahead. One more question, Jim, if you like.

Caller - Thank you. David, weíve just got a few minutes here and maybe take time after the break here at 8:00 and go on with this question, I hope, if you talk about it. Iíve heard you speak about
the Federal Reserve (David: Yes.) in the United States and the unique way that it mystifies and hoodwinks the American public but especially when you talk about in your unique way the national debt or the budget debate as being nothing more than fresh air. And if you could elaborate on that at great length I think the people listening would benefit.

Jeff Rense ~ You know, why donít we do this. Letís do that money story. Itís a lengthy story as Jim said. Weíre gonna start on it now, but youíve got some great lines, David, and thatís really the mechanism by which this whole thing is held together and manipulated. Itís money and the fact that every individual needs it.

David Icke ~ Yeah. I tell ya, and we go back to what we were talking about teachers earlier. I spoke in Vancouver earlier this year and when I was talking about this I noticed one guy got up and left at the back of the theatre. And after I was finished the guy who put up the whole meeting, he said, "You upset a friend of mine." I said, "Really? In what way?" He said, "When you were talking about the money, and how money didnít exist, and what a great con it was, and that weíre actually paying interest on fresh air, he walked out because he said it doesnít work like that." And I said, "How does it work?" And he couldnít really tell me. He says, "But Iíll tell you what that guy does for a living. Heís an economist. Heís advising people on the economy and on money etcetera in Vancouver everyday."

And he doesnít know how moneyís created. Weíre told first of all that governments print money. Thatís the thing weíre led to believe. They donít. Moneyís created in a very simple way. Itís by private banks owned by the same people issuing non existent money called credit. And so you go to a bank and theyíll give you a loan, say a hundred grand, but all they do at that point is not print any paper or mint any coins or move any precious metals a single inch. They just type into your account $100,000. Thatís all they do. So from that moment on youíre paying interest on $100,000 thatís just figures on a screen. And what weíve actually done is give complete control over the creation of money to private banks, which as I show and as others have shown, are actually under control by the same people.

Now if you look, what is the difference between a boom and a bust, itís one thing. During a boom thereís abundance, jobs, etc. Thatís when thereís enough units in circulation to allow economic activity to take place that allows that to happen. When we have a bust or depression, the only difference between that and a boom is the number of units of exchange in circulation is far less therefore thereís not enough money to go around to exchange for goods and services and create that economic activity. The people who decide how many units of exchange are in circulation or not, in other words whether we have a boom or a bust, are those banks who decide if theyíre going to let lots of loans go at low interest or not many loans at high interest. And, of course, the Federal Reserve, this European owned fascist organization, set interest rates in this country. So basically, you have a boom. You get people in debt and all that stuff. And then you have a bust and you reap all the wealth of all the bankruptcies and what have you. The real wealth. Land. Buildings. Businesses. And you get that in exchange for fresh air.

Jeff Rense ~ And then you set it up and start all over again. When we continue David Icke will talk about how banks can loan money. And you say banks canít loan more money than they have on deposit, can they? Well, weíre going to talk about fractional banking and all of that as we continue here at Sightings on the Radio here tonight with Englandís David Icke. And weíll be back after the news.




Jeff Rense ~ And we are back, talking with Englandís David Icke whose book "...And the Truth Shall Set You Free" is considered to be a very dangerous book by some people. We were talking about banking and the money game and it is the biggest and probably oldest game there is. When you go into a bank and ask for a loan and you qualify, whatever qualify means anymore, youíre given a certain amount of money. But are you? Are you given anything? No. Simply digits are changed in your bank account so to speak or a check is cut to you. Again all numbers. What are the rules, the alleged rules, David, that a bank has to follow in order to make loans to the public about money on deposit and assets and so forth?

David Icke ~ Well, there is virtually none now. I mean, as a rule of thumb, you could say that they have to have ten percent of what they loan but in truth they often need far less than that. We go back to this whole scenario. The Knights Templar and the 1200-1300ís, they started loaning people money that didnít exist and then charging interest on it. Going back that far. You can go back to Babylon and the ancient world and find the same thing.

And itís always been used as a form of control because if you can get people in debt, you have got them under control. You can have companies all over the world, and small businesses particularly, having to pay back interest on money that doesnít exist, loans to the bank to keep the businesses going then you are for a start inflating the price of every single product that is sold because everyone in the production process of that product, from making it, to transporting it, to marketing it, to selling it, is adding extra to their cost to service interest on money that doesnít exist which they borrowed. So that combination of people in debt and higher prices than necessary means youíre pressuring people to serve your system to earn the money to pay these prices youíre inflating and this debt that youíre creating.

And this can be seen in America and all over the world at the government level where fantastic amounts of taxpayersí money every year is going straight into the coffers of the Federal Reserve banks to pay back interest on fresh air. People go hungry and people go homeless. I mean, this is such a con itís unbelievable. Itís possible because America, like Britain, is a one party state. If you at whether the Republicans or whether the Democrats are in, or the Labor or Conservative in Britain, the same agenda keeps unfolding. And this agenda is for the global centralization of power at a very, very complete level. And fundamental to that is control of money because that controls peoplesí ability to purchase, ability to live their lives.

So if you go back to the time of William of Orange in Britain who was brought over to be king of England by a secret society among others called the Orange Order from Holland, when itís the Orange Order who is very much involved in the conflict, and what have you, in northern Ireland to this day. And what William of Orange was brought over to do was to create the Bank of England. And he signed a charter. I think it was in 1964. And this banking system started to motor. And the Federal Reserve, of course, as it has been well documented, was actually created by European bankers not least the
House of Rothschild.

And what governments can do because theyíre the government is print its own money interest free and put it into circulation interest free so that money takes on its positive aspect which is as a unit of exchange for exchanging contributions to society. What happens, however, because the people that are controlling the politicians own the banks. Governments borrow money from private banking cartels and pay interest on it.

íAll this interest....this national debt.í Excuse me? Itís fresh air. It doesnít exist. íWe must reduce the deficit.í There is no deficit. Itís fresh air. Itís a complete con. And what has happened, of course -- you just look at the Presidents of the United States as an example -- you need kookooland amounts of money to run for President. Who provides that money? The people that run the banking and business community are the same people and you get paid by the piper. You dance to his tune when youíre in office so this legislation has gone on being passed over the few centuries which allows banks to lend what they donít have. Very simple example...

Jeff Rense ~ How do you phrase it, David, "Never did.." Youíve got a great line. The money line. "Never did exist. Doesnít now."

David Icke ~ Oh yeah. We are up to our necks in debt on money that has never, does not, and will never exist. And if anyone doesnít believe that a few people canít control the world, they should just look at the power we have given these bankers over the control of our lives. Weíre in a situation where the politicians have passed legislation that allows banks to lend fresh air, money they donít have and get rewarded for it and if you look at the way itís unfolded over the years. It means because of this turkey shoot idea whereby you create a boom, you get people into debt, you get governments into debt, you get individuals and businesses into debt.

And people say, "Oh, itís boom time. Well, Iíll have a bigger car, bigger house. Weíll have two holidays this year cause things are going well. I havenít got the money, but things are going well. Iíll be able to service the debt so weíll just have a loan." And then businesses say, "Thereís all this kind of economic activity. People want to buy our products. Thereís lots of money in circulation. Weíll borrow more from the bank to get better machinery and then weíll increase production."


And then at that point the people who put the money into circulation, take it out again. They stop making as many loans. They make sure interest rates go up and the Federal Reserve, I repeat, has complete control of that. And basically units of exchange are taken out of circulation. People havenít got the same amount of money to spend. Economic activity falls. The demand for products falls. But those loans which have been taken out during the boom time still have to be serviced and not only that the interest rates youíre paying on them now are higher. So people go bankrupt. People lose their money. People lose their businesses. And the banks get all that wealth that does exist.

This boom-bust con which the economists on the big CNN say, "This is just this point on the economic cycle. Itís very natural." Itís complete manipulation. It means the real wealth of the world has been sucked to the top of the pyramid which is why the real wealth of the world is owned by so few people. And so weíre in a situation now where weíve given complete control over whether we have a boom or a bust to a handful of people who run the global banking system and the global political system and the transnational corporations.

And I just say to people, "If you think this is all nonsense and actually money does exist and this is all not happening, then you try en masse tomorrow morning taking out of the bank what you theoretically have on deposit. If everyone in the world tried to take out tomorrow the money they theoretically have on deposit in the banks theyíd be slamming the doors at half past nine because they have not got it. And yet thatís the debt that weíre up to our neck in. And thatís what the third world debt is. The third world debt which is crucifying environmentally and in human terms what we call the third world is debt on money that has never, does not, and will never exist.

Jeff Rense ~ That may be the most insidious of all the debt structures, what is happening to the third world. I know people who live in Brazil and are Brazilian tell me that Brazil is not owned by Brazilians anymore, itís owned by the transnational corporations.