All right, greetings to all of you. This is
cannot cover everything about Earth history. So this is a highlight,
a recap, a glossing over, shall we say. But it will be enough
information for you to be able to begin thinking and looking in
other directions, perhaps, than before.
The beginnings of humanoid consciousness began in the area you call
the constellation Lyra. Eventually the consciousness took bodily
form (in terms of humanoid beings), and within the Lyra system
civilizations began exploding in all directions.
polarizing themselves, as is the natural template of your reality -
for having a polarized reality stirs you to achieve integration.
Lyran Light-Skinned and Vegan Dark-Skinned Humanoids
You had then what we will call the Lyran civilizations, which were,
generally speaking, humanoids like you, usually a Caucasian type.
The other foundational civilization was from the system Vega. There
is a star Vega in your Lyran constellation. In terms of light years,
it's much closer to you than Lyra, but they regard themselves as
part of the Lyran system.
The Vegan civilizations are also a certain
genetic strain, a less Caucasian type.
Still humanoid, they are more
representative of the darker skinned races on your planet, from
Native American to East Indian to aborigine. Some of the specific
African races on your planet were specifically engineered for Earth,
so you may not find the exact type out there.
These two polarities
began the explosion of humanoid civilizations outward into the
galaxy until you eventually get to Earth.
We'll give you a little bit of the family tree here. We shall start
We've talked about the dimensional infusion, the
eventual explosion into this dimensional reality (of course, it
didn't happen like that), and the eventual polarization of the Lyran
and Vegan races.
The Two Genetic Strains
Let's take this a little further. As this is extremely simplified,
there are literally hundreds of civilizations that are not
But this is the basic template.
As you say in your Bible (and we will use it humorously),
Lyra begat Terra
Lyra begat Pleiadians
Vega begat Orion
Vega begat Sirius
You can see some of the genetic progressions here.
The Terrans (Terrans,
of course being you) and the Pleiadians are more light-skinned (Lyran).
Orions and Sirians are somewhat more
Now, there are a
of other civilizations:
for instance, in the Vegan genetic chain
Alpha Centauri and Altair, various planets in the Draco
system, and some civilizations within Ursa Major.
Those are minor
players. We speak of the main players of this drama.
You'll hear us talk about the
Lyran and Sirian groups more than the
Lyran/Vegan [level of polarity].
The Vegans were the first
civilization here on Earth, before the Lyrans ever came. This was
during the time when prehistoric creatures were on your planet. Your
Earth then was considered a future Vegan colony; when the planet
settled down it would become a Vegan colony.
Since Vega is close to
your Earth in light years, this is very natural.
But the Lyrans came eventually and caused a lot of trouble (which is
something they're known for).
At some point the Vegans pulled out
and it became a Lyran planet. Generations and generations later, the
Sirians, who were begat from the Vegans, came back to claim the
So the conflict thus lies between the Sirians and the
Those of you who have read a book on your planet called
The Gods of
Eden will find a reference to
the Brotherhood versus
the custodial Gods. This dynamic of the Brotherhood, the custodial Gods, the Lyrans and the Sirians has been playing on your planet since its
You have two groups who believe, or did believe, that you
were their territory.
You Were Your Forefathers
Before we go further with this we do not want to imply that you are
all puppets on a string.
The key idea is that, reincarnationally
speaking, you today were these forefathers who fought over you. So
it's an internal family struggle; you're fighting against
yourselves. No one is doing anything to you. You are attempting to
heal your past by bringing up these past issues in contemporary
This is why you see many of the divisions on your planet now.
Archetypally speaking, the Brotherhood, the
Sirian group, was the
group that had knowledge, the group that cared about humanity -
cared enough to occasionally give you a carrot to appease you, a
tidbit of information so that you would grow. The Lyrans would be
more like the custodial Gods or the authoritarian, perhaps
religious, figures you are aware of who are more concerned with
keeping you subverted.
So this is the dynamics that have been playing on your planet for
You have a group that's attempting to enlighten you (in
their own way) and a group that's attempting to oppress you. Again,
it's yourself doing it to yourself. It's the polarities within
yourselves raging this war. This history is only the external
dynamic of how it occurred.
The creation of mankind was basically a joint effort, though
somewhat reluctantly on the part of the Lyrans and the Sirians, who
both wanted the race on Earth to be created for their own purposes.
So after Homo sapiens was fully autonomous on the planet and began
multiplying, then the more subtle wars began over who was going to
be the lord over you.
The Time of the ET Overlords
During the times of early man (for instance,
Sumeria) the planet was
divided into various areas where a certain overlord was in charge.
As you go through the mythologies on your planet you find Gods in
different civilizations with different names but with strikingly
similar qualities - for instance, Innana in Sumeria, Quan Yin in
Asia, Isis in Egypt.
Those are all representative of the same
consciousness, of an "overlord" during a given time period. However,
the consciousness that many of you have come to know and love, Isis/Quan
Yin, is not what we are talking about.
(The Quan Yin, the Isis, is
more archetypal now; it's the evolved version of that consciousness
that has come to terms and integrated with everything and now serves
as a loving force for evolution.)
We're talking about the past
physical history that has been attributed to these names. We are
talking about the personification of these overlords, these Gods on
Many of you may wonder why God is sometimes referred to in some of
your ancient writings as being a real person, a physical person.
Many of the very, very ancient writings have not been altered, and
they speak of God as a physical person. These extraterrestrial
beings were no more God than you are with each other; they were
Throughout the ages their true nature has been
either deliberately manipulated and changed to keep people under
control or it has become distorted through the passing of time.
Rest assured that what we are saying to you will represent one
aspect. There is also a lot being communicated to you on another
level of consciousness, so you may feel that your head is crammed
You may have a lot of later insights, things we've not
even talked about today. So much of this history is so convoluted
and nonlinear that sometimes we must share with you concepts in
nonlinear communication rather than through language.
Any comments or questions so far?
A School to Learn This History
Is there ever going to be a school or any kind of an educational
system here that will acquaint us with these ideas and concepts?
It is our understanding that yes, eventually there will be, but it
might not be in the next ten years. A lot of undoing and unraveling
will need to be done before this information can be communicated to
you. When we say "undoing and unraveling," we're talking about the
hold that much of your religious structure has on your societal
It's like a plant with very deep roots; if you try to
dig out the plant, all the surrounding dirt is disturbed as well.
Society may not be ready for that type of massive change.
information will eventually be recognized, because even as we speak
there are experts who are translating Sumerian and many other texts
found in areas of your Middle East.
Most - 75% - of the information
has not been released, some because it's not understood. Some of it
hasn't been released because it is recognized to be in direct
contradiction to what has been part of your planet. So for now, at
least, you're not going to learn about this in your elementary
But in the future, yes.
Hidden Agendas and the Inheritance of Core Beliefs
I would like to make sure we touch on some of those core-belief
systems that we have inherited from these previous times, such as
the idea of monogamy or the influence of the Church, the
structure, that sort of thing.
Some of the hidden agendas that
apparently were played at that time are still carrying on here.
"Hidden agendas" is wonderful terminology. There are so many hidden
agendas going on your planet. In fact, they are so hidden that the
people who originally hid them can't even remember where they've
hidden them. That's your challenge.
The idea of chaos is part of it.
These agendas are so hidden that you have to go into total chaos
even to know you have a hidden agenda, before you even find out what
Since you brought up the idea of monogamy we will address that one.
We're not going to go in a linear format like we did before. We're
going to field your questions and throw in little tidbits for you,
back and forth throughout history, that will help you put the puzzle
When you assemble a puzzle, you don't wait and do it in
You do it as it fits together.
Monogamy - a Genetic Code
The idea of monogamy is a touchy one for some because it pushes a
lot of buttons.
But we will say that in the very early days of your
planet when there was a deliberate breeding program to create
accurate, direct bloodlines that the extraterrestrials in power
wanted, the work with your genetic structure was primarily in women.
There is still a latent genetic code that predisposes females to the
idea of monogamy. This was to keep bloodlines pure. It didn't matter
if the male plucked around, as you say, but it was very important
that the key females did not, so that the children would have a pure
After these genetic programs were completed, the genetic code became
more and more latent. The genetic code in females that predisposes
them to monogamy is triggered by the emotion of fear, so it becomes
active when fear is present, latent when fear is absent. In the
early days the extraterrestrials' method of control was through
fear; that is how fear became the trigger.
In contemporary times you have various things that can trigger fear.
For instance, the fear of disease, the fear of not getting the love
you need or want if you allow your partner not to be monogamous, the
fear that it somehow takes away from you, the fear that if your
partner is not monogamous with you perhaps your importance to him
will be lessened, you identity will perhaps crumble.
different ways one can trigger this, but the basic trigger is fear.
When you heal the fear, the code becomes inactive.
There has been so much genetic mixture on your planet that we would
say that males now also possess the latent code. It's more inactive
in males than in females, but it exists now in both male and female
bodies. The more fearful you are, the more that code is triggered.
This is one of those wonderfully byproducts of the early genetic
manipulation. But in no way are you victims to it, because as you
heal yourself, as you heal your relationship with yourself, your
issues of self-love, etc., you come out of the energy of fear and
the code becomes quite inactive; so much so that it would be
difficult to access it.
This is an example of how certain deliberate genetic manipulation in
the ancient past has created a certain aspect of society that you
have now. This is going to be changing. It was necessary then that
you be controlled. And of course later the churches etc. would jump
on the band wagon, because if you knew that you could love more than
one person you would not be in fear.
You would not be afraid of God,
for one thing, so you wouldn't listen to
The History of Jesus and His Bloodline
So the divine right of kings in our history is from the same idea -
to keep those bloodlines intact, and that was linked with power and
Exactly. There have been a lot of secret genetic programs on your
planet up to present day. One that some of you are familiar with is
that of Jesus's bloodline - Jesus having had children. We've not
talked about this really in depth. We've avoided it like the plague.
What is necessary to get a group of people together so that you
don't have to avoid it...?
Well, we may go into it today, depending on the dynamics of the
group. Jesus was Hebrew, obviously, and he could not have held his
position as rabbi had he not been married. The ancients speak of
Jesus as a rabbi, and he could not be a rabbi of that standing
without being married. There were children.
Obviously, because of
the controversy around Jesus, his children would not talk about
their heritage indiscreetly.
After Jesus's disappearance, shall we
the family fragmented somewhat, went into hiding. There's a
bloodline on your planet that you call
Merovingian; this was more
active many centuries ago.
They represent what's left of Jesus's
- this is what they've claimed.
The Holy Grail
There is a whole idea of the grail, what it represents and how
people have been seeking after it so long.
Look at the symbology.
Remember that when you're dealing with something that is
mythologized, you're dealing in symbology. It might not necessarily
be what you think. The mythical cup that held Jesus's blood - in
symbology a cup can be seen as a womb; blood would be genetic
material, codes, what makes you who you are.
So you have a womb that
is holding this genetic connection - the grail.
This is the way we
would interpret it. It's not a thing. It's not material riches to be
sought after. It is an idea, and it is the key to your liberation on
Earth. It is the recognition of who you have been, who you are, and
who you will become. It is the entire genetic package of your
So you have seen people risking their lives to find the grail, not
even knowing what they're looking for. It was because they sensed
that it represented freedom. You also had people desperately looking
for the grail to hide it so that it would never be found.
This is the dynamic that's been going on on your planet. You have
groups who want to keep you in ignorance and fear. And you have
groups who want to liberate you. They've been butting heads for
century after century.
Again we remind you it's yourself and
yourself. You're the only players. No one is doing anything to you.
This is your way of being extremely creative and clearing up all the
stuff, discovering your heritage, using the past to move cleanly
into the future.
During the next twenty years much is going to be emerging - so much
information, so much revelation is going to be emerging, it will be
like a cleansing. This is necessary. And it's going to come in
layers. The top layer may be your government's revelations.
goodness! That's just covering up one more layer of cover-up!
Well, cover-up's not the word we're looking for, but you know what we mean
- hidden agendas.
Your Divine Heritage
The basic hidden truth all of these facades are covering up is your
divine heritage, who you are. It doesn't mean you are all Gods on a
It means you are all equal to God. You came from the
heavens. You have a connection. You each have your own personal
connection to a God that no one can dictate to and you are part of a
vast network of family from planet to planet to planet. A very
liberating idea, yes?
That's why it's not widely known - it's too
liberating. But that's the foundational piece that all of the
facades, the governments, the religions, etc. are covering up.
The grail is one key toward the understanding of yourself on a
genetic level - who you are, where you've come from, and where you
'Jesus' and the 'Crucifixion'
In one of
the Seth books they talked about the idea that
body that was crucified wasn't the body of Jesus but that it was
somebody else. Can you comment on that?
We knew someone was going to ask that question. We would agree with
that. We've not really come out to say this yet, but Jesus did not
die. The ultimate blasphemy you may throw at your society is that
did not die on the cross.
His value was recognized, and the
individuals responsible for the crucifixion knew that a dead martyr
is much more powerful [as a symbol]. So there were various political
things that went on. He was allowed basically to go into hiding and
another was sacrificed in his place.
Thus he was able to keep the
genetic line going.
What then is the Shroud of Turin?
Many of these stories we share with you may sound very fantastic.
You have to look at the whole picture instead of the fantastic
stories. The body that was put in the shroud was not the body of the person
who died on the cross. It was the body of Jesus, but he was not
He's not in trance or an altered state of consciousness?
Well, a little bit of all you've mentioned. He had the ability to
put himself in a very deep trancelike state, which he had learned in
India. And he was able to translocate himself, hence the appearances
in front of the apostles. To him and the apostles it was no big
Why was he wrapped in the shroud? Why was he buried?
It was necessary for people to believe that he had died.
But didn't they see that the man on the cross and the man that was
buried wasn't the same person? I mean, linearly speaking, dealing
with that group of people and those belief systems and that
intelligence, didn't the same people go from the cross to the
First, many of the people who were angry about his existence had
never really seen him; it was all hearsay. They had no real idea who
he was. Only the Pharisees and the Sadducees and the people that
surrounded him had really seen him. There was no television, no
photographs, so it was very easy to deceive the public.
You wonder today about things that are covered up and how could that
Well, today with television and newspapers and everything, we still
don't know the truth of Kennedys.
There is also the idea of sleight-of-hand. Keep someone busy here
while something else is going on over here - very easy to do. Of
course, if anyone else knew the truth, they were either executed or
threatened enough that they would be quiet. People were very fearful
There was the disappearance, the banishment of Jesus' family, into
the Greek area and up into Europe, so they felt they would never
have to deal with it again. Of course, all of the different
structures that became the churches took it and ran, and you have
the structure you have today.
What, then, happened to Jesus? Did he die a natural death?
He died a natural death, yes. Well...
A supernatural death?
Thank you. Yes, not a natural death in the sense of pain. Basically
speaking, he was there one minute and gone the next.
So he translated himself fairly quickly?
Which will take us back to this actual birth and conception because
he was not totally Terran in nature.
I did think so.
He had capabilities that the people of the time did not recognize;
they weren't common.
What about his life after this crucifixion scenario? Did he continue
a so-called normal, ordinary life in hiding or in another place with
his family? Was he able to leave some kind of work after what he did
for the mass consciousness?
He actually did continue to teach. He taught in various disguises
with different names and identities. It was not difficult in that
time to do so because the world was not linked through planetary
communication. It was necessary for him to change locations, but he
was instrumental in beginning what you consider to be secret
societies (not that that was what he planned to do).
Well, a lot of things he did came out differently from the way he
Exactly. But after he was gone it was recognized that he had started
a liberating teaching. What is so interesting about the way your
planet has thought is that anytime you have gotten a teaching that
you see is liberating, you restrict it! You keep it secret. You make
people pay a lot of money to get it - whatever. Kind of a paradox
there. But that was the way you felt you needed to do it.
Actually that could be a foundation for the societies we are aware
of today such as the Rosicrucians, the Knights Templar...
Knights Templar, Freemasons, yes absolutely. The
foundation was in the early teachings of Jesus and then onward.
How long did he live, roughly?
Interesting question. He spent a lot of time not in the earthly
dimension, so he actually lived a lot longer. But in terms of Earth
chronological years we would say perhaps 80. We can't really give
you a direct number because it's not really counted like that.
he lived for quite some time. You will find that as things are being
uncovered you are actually going to find some texts in Southern
Europe that will account his life after the crucifixion.
going to want you to know that, so that will be quite controversial.
Some of that material is leaking out now.
There were other teachers
in various areas of the world who came, I assume, to give somewhat
the same idea to people, to get them to realize they had their own
power and to love each other (although I'm very murky on the subject
As you should be. Mohammed is a different situation. In no way are
we slamming his glamour, but was an overlord, so you're dealing with
a little bit different scenario.
Mary and the
We would like to go back to the
It is a very
interesting story, because today in contemporary times you have the
story of UFO abductions where some women are implanted with
children, finding themselves pregnant without sexual intercourse.
Well, this is nothing new. Now, the Mother Mary would have been
considered a virgin, all right?
If you do linguistic studies into
the definition of virginity at that time (check it out), it meant
never having become pregnant, not never having had sex. The
firstborn child of a woman carried the genetic coding of being the
Therefore if a woman had had a child, she is not a virgin
because she has already had her firstborn, which was considered to
be the true child of her soul. The later interpretation of virginity
was to keep you under control once again.
It added to the mystery, too.
Oh yes. Now what better way to keep a population in control than to
control your most instinctive drive? If the sexual drive can be
controlled, everything else can be, too.
This is what you've gotten
yourselves into, what you've created for yourselves as a process of
You mean this is what we're getting ourselves out of?
Yes, that also. In that sense, then, Mary had never had a child. She
was a virgin in the old sense of the word. Therefore, the immaculate
conception would be what you would consider artificial insemination
by another consciousness.
There are stories about angels visiting her. Those were the
consciousnesses visiting her. Some of the other stuff in the story
was added, but basically you have the consciousness that was to be
Jesus being put into her for the purpose of his incarnation on
And wasn't Mary from a long line of very spiritual people? Was she
Yes. Well, not selected; she chose it. She had been preparing
herself for many, many lifetimes.
What race was it that implanted her?
I knew that one was coming up. It was not just one race but a
genetic combination. We'll go back to our chart here. The primary
genetic combination was Sirian and Pleiadian.
Now, the Pleiadians
really don't like to talk about this. They're very sensitive about
everything that they've done on Earth that could be considered
interference. It's a sore spot.
What that represented was Sirian
past, Pleiadian future, an integration of those two energies. It was
important that it occurred in that way.
What's very interesting is the contemporary images of the
Mary. There's an image that has been photographed somewhere in
Eastern Europe. If you compare that image to the photographs that
Billy Meier has taken of Pleiadians, they are nearly identical.
The features are very delicate...
Very delicate. The earlobes are lower, the chins pointed, the mouths
very small. It's not that a Pleiadian has appeared in the guise of
Mother Mary in Eastern Europe. But the area, being highly Catholic
or Christian, has interpreted what they've seen to be the Mother
Mary. There's a difference there.
So the Mother Mary was carrying a
lot of the Pleiadian genetics. The Sirian genetics were put into her
to combine with her Pleiadian genetics.
In some ways this was political, in terms of the ETs at the time,
because you have the struggle between the Lyrans and the Sirians
that occurred on and off throughout history, each attempting to gain
a foothold on the planet. This was the way for the Sirians to
perhaps gain a little bit of a foothold. It was like their
Implanting was just one level of the whole Sirian thing. There were
other levels that could be considered to be altruistic. You have
quite an interesting historical past, very colorful.
We're going to take it up to the Middle Ages, again jumping around.
Back to La Verdadera Historia de Los Nazarenos y La Biblia
The Creation of the Human Biogenetic Structure
The creation of the biogenetic structure, how was that done? Was it
chemical? Was it just for the body or for the soul as well? What's
the makeup of the soul? Does it too have an equivalent of DNA
You are talking about the makeup of the human prototype created on
Yes, both the body and the energy that is the soul. Was that created
The souls were not created, no.
The beings, the
Lyrans and the
Sirians who were involved in the genetic engineering of the Earth
human, were looking to create the perfect vehicle, a body, for
themselves to incarnate into eventually. It's kind of like building
your own car.
They wanted to start from scratch, build the car, and
be the driver of the car. So the souls were already in existence.
This is why we say you are them, because you were them.
The ETs we are talking about now who are fighting amongst themselves
are reincarnationally you. This is how you are bringing about the
transformation and integration on your planet. You have achieved
what you set out to do - the creation of the Terran race on Earth -
and then the incarnation into that race in order to work out the
problems of your forefathers.
In terms of the actual genetic work, there was an indigenous Terran
species on Earth, the primates. Throughout the primate development
there were periods of time when genetics was inserted to speed up
the process. But it wasn't until Neanderthal when things went crazy
a little bit in a positive way.
There began an explosion of growth,
and it was at that time they guided humankind into Cro-Magnon man.
That's where the whole missing-link idea began.
The missing link was
the time period in which your development was extremely accelerated.
Your anthropologists can't figure out what happened during that
period because it doesn't fit any of their theories. The most
obvious thing is that you had help, but maybe they're not ready for
that one yet.
So the vehicle became prepared then. The vehicle was given an
instilment of extraterrestrial genetics. What we speak of, though
it may seem fantastic to many of you, is commonplace out there in
the universe. You hybridize plants on your planet, creating new
forms of food.
This is a natural process of evolution. And you will
be out there someday doing this type of thing. You'll do it
differently from your forefathers, we assure you. But it's part of
evolution. Evolution has been frequently defined as occurring with
no outside stimulus.
But outside stimulus is part of evolution, so
perhaps a new definition of the idea of evolution would assist you.
There was an infusion of the extraterrestrial genetics into the
developing primate on Earth. Therefore you had Homo sapiens. The
whole Garden of Eden story is a symbolic representation of your Terran species' leap from second to third density, the awareness of
the I Am. That is how the race progressed into the prototype
and then into the human kicked out of the Garden of Eden, becoming
responsible for themselves.
Until that prehistoric time you're talking about there was no
outside stimulus? It was just natural progression on the Earth?
Yes. We would say it was a very ancient time when the Vegans were
here. They did a little bit of terra-forming, shall we say, but there
was not really the major project that the Lyrans took on later.
The Soul Coding
The I who was me then and who will be me in the
future is perhaps both my soul and my physical genetic
representation... but that original soul unaffected by the genetic
coding has its own coding. Where does that come from, and why should
it be affected by the Terra coding in our next reincarnation?
First, a little bit of
metaphysics here. Let's say
that the oversoul is the palm of the hand. The fingers are the
lifetimes or incarnations. Now, the oversoul knows the entire story
and dictates what you're going to do. That's your source. That's the
source that made you Lyran, Sirian, and Terran - the progression.
Genetics has been considered a physical thing. It's in your genes.
Your genetic coding is in your DNA. Now, there is etheric DNA (for
lack of another term) that exists within the matrices of your soul
or your oversoul's energy. This represents your past, your future,
your present all wrapped up into one idea. It's encoded by light
This is what dictates or what attracts you to a certain
type of body. When you want to come into a lifetime, there will be
various connections with the different bodies on Earth. If you want
to incarnate as a black person, maybe there have been lifetimes as
other black people and you want to resolve them.
That's one idea.
That's on the Earth level.
There are other levels that represent your identity with your Source
on an etheric genetic level. That will dictate your experiences and
your genetic evolution, not against your will but as a reflection of
your will, and not only your genetic evolution on Earth, but your metagenetic evolution, the genetic evolution of you as a light
Originally was this etheric DNA created by someone, some energy
No, not outside of you. We've described the whole idea of the
dimensional infusion, which was your emergence into this reality
that you all share. You came from a point of integration into a
reality of separation. When you fragmented it was like the
shattering of a mirror. You brought with you the original stuff that
you were part of, and that is part of your identity. Your
experiences here alter your identity; they change it, expand it.
So it's not that someone else created you but that who you are
inherently created the codes that we speak of. It's a reflection of
you rather than a blueprint about you.
How 'Miracles' Originate
People worship a God, or pray to a God, whether it's the image of a
God or it's a Buddha or even back then... they tap in and get
The God is just something that they made. So are those Gods
just like connectors to an energy that one was able to tap into?
When one prays to a God and - let's say the prayer is answered. The
person needs that figure because at that time in their lives they do
not realize that what they are praying to is a mirror. They are only
looking at themselves.
So it serves a function for them to do that.
But the evolutionary process is such that eventually there will be a
recognition that you're only looking in the mirror and seeing
Here's an interesting thought: Let's say that someone
makes up a God and they call it Bob, the God of
Bob. And enough
people begin believing in Bob. Because of the belief in Bob, Bob is
created. Bob has the choice of becoming self-aware, but he doesn't
He can exist only as a projection of the people who believe
in him, in which case it is like a two-dimensional image. To the
people who believe in him, Bob is very real, and you could prove the
existence of Bob.
Evolution always has wild cards. This is a case where you may
actually be able to watch the birth of a new entity, because through
the natural evolution of Bob's existence Bob may become self-aware.
If that is the case, he becomes a true being and not just a
projection of those who believe in him. So for all intents and
purposes those who believe in Bob will know that Bob exists, because
Bob will be very real for them.
And there really is no difference
that he is a projection.
Do you follow?
Well, actually, we're all projections of some sort of another aren't
We were talking about the dimensional infusion. Sometimes people
ask, "What happened before that?" Before the dimensional infusion
you can liken that to your being one big Bob. Bob became self-aware,
and the self-awareness was so exciting and so igniting that in his
excitement he burst and fragmented. That's one way of looking at it.
But that is how the creation of an entity can occur.
But then you can go one step further and ask, where did Bob come
He came from itself. Well, it's like
the devil then, too.
The devil has a lot of power because he's been given it. That's the
only reason why. So your church is being very real when they say the
devil exists. But does the devil have an existence outside of it?
Well, I would say that he has power over those that believe in his
power. They give it to him. They put their power in his hands. How
does that relate to miracles such as the waters of Lourdes, St.
Therese, St. Francis of Assisi and Bernadette?
Miracles are self-generating.
Miracles occur because the seeker
believes they need something and can't allow themselves to give them
what they need. Therefore the miracle will come in the form that is
most comfortable. For the individuals of a certain religion,
miracles come in the form they're comfortable with. For some of the
more fundamentalist Christians, it comes in the form of faith
healing. It's what you believe in. Miracles do not happen outside of
you. You are the generator of them. It's up to you whether you want
to create it so it look like you have nothing to do with it.
Let's say that Bernadette or St. Francis had nothing to do with
working any of these miracles outside of the fact they are the
They're the mirror. They are also the channel through which the
energy may flow. Those whom you have deified may actually be the
channel for energy to flow through for other people rather than
themselves. But if you're just a sick person and you have a miracle,
it's for you rather than your channeling for others. Do you see what
Well, I healed myself in a very interesting situation and when I
asked about it, I was told that it was my soul energy that healed
Evidently your soul energy heals you when your ego is looking in the
other direction, because the ego doesn't believe in that sort of
Yes, exactly. You've just said it all. Nothing happens outside of
yourself. Absolutely not.
So if we take full responsibility for, let's say, fragments of Bob
and we want to be the catalyst to do this thing, then the process is
for us to get rid of our egos so that we can then put out the fires
in Kuwait and help the people of Bangladesh and stop crack babies
from being born addicted - all of that. There's some sort of process
about getting the ego out of the way and allowing ourselves to be
the channel for healing on this level.
To sort of somehow focus all these people who do have serious
beliefs in miracles so that their energy can flow and join ours and
create some kind of...
Exactly. There's nothing wrong in believe in miracles. You can
coexist totally harmoniously with fundamentalist Christians who
believe in miracles if you both allow the ego to step out of the
way. They will create the miracles seemingly outside of them and you
will create the miracles for yourself. And you both accept each
other. It's not a matter of belief; it's a matter of allowing.
That's the whole key.
There is enough space for a coexistence to take place for all
energies, all races.
The Origin of Conflict
Even from the very beginning why did the struggle for domination
occur? Was it territorial?
It was territorial. We'll explain a little bit about the dynamics of
it. You are asking why there is conflict if the realization is that
there's enough to go around.
The nature of polarity in your universe is such that it takes the
form of service to others or service to self, or positive and
negative. Negative can be equated with service to self; this is
because of the energy dynamic.
Service to self is contractive,
contracting in on itself.
Service to others is expansive, expanding
outward but at the end you're going to be scratching your head
wondering what one thing has to do with another.
We will clarify.
Lamb's Blood, Cattle Mutilations and the AIDS Virus
The scenario is that you have a lot of dead first-born Egyptians and
no dead first-born Hebrews, who had drunk the lamb's blood. Cut to
the present day: You have on your planet what you call the AIDS
Any of you that have researched have found that the AIDS
virus is a combination of a sheep and a cow retrovirus. It has
connections there. (In fact, the virus can be grown in the belly of
these animals.) Lamb - sheep, all right? Now cut to the scenarios
that were active in the seventies: cattle and sheep mutilations.
(Are we putting the pieces together?)
In the 1970s you find the outbreak of AIDS. In the 1970s you find a
preponderance of cattle and sheep mutilations in which the blood is
We would say that the plague that hit the Egyptians during
this time and that passed over the Hebrews was a similarly
engineered virus, but a more potent one because it struck and killed
right away. (As you know, if you have a snakebite, one antidote is
small portions of the snake venom.)
You can get the antidote by
understanding the chemical components of the thing that's poisoning
you. So they drank the lamb's blood prepared in a certain way, which
counteracted this very potent virus that was acting as a plague.
Cut back to present day: this plague is still being used in
biological warfare and it's still active on your planet.
forces on your planet who have been attempting to find once again an
antidote, as well as forces on your planet attempting to find the
way to recreate the potent virus from the Egyptian times.
you have two different forces fighting each other: One is trying to
find a cure and the other is trying to find a way to obtain it and
wipe out a lot of people.
That is the purpose of the cattle and sheep mutilations - mostly
research attempting to synthesize these chemicals. It doesn't have
to do with ETs who are wanting to eat you, who are trying to drain
blood for their nourishment - nothing like that. That's more
symbolic of the memory of the drinking of the blood way back when.
Is it our planet's Homo sapiens who are doing this?
Homo sapiens doing what? The mutilations?
Yes. Who are you saying is doing the mutilations?
mutilations: Ever since the 1970s there has been a greater
awareness of cattle and sheep mutilations, which seem to have used
laser beams or instruments you do not possess on your planet. Very
clean incisions, and most of the time the blood is completely
drained from the animal.
We are saying that there are different
groups doing it. Some are human (Homo sapiens) and some are
extraterrestrial, so it's not clear-cut.
Humans and ETs on Both Sides
Are those extraterrestrial groups associated with those on our
planet like the Greys, or are we talking off-planet now?
We are talking off-planet, descendants of those who still think
there's a territorial dispute going on. There are extraterrestrials
as well as humans who are attempting to find the antidote. There are
extraterrestrials as well as negatively oriented human groups who
are attempting to use the virus. So you've got them on both sides.
We do not perceive that you are going to create a reality in which
the AIDS virus is going to wipe you out. If you remember, earlier in
the session we talked about how emotional states like fear can
trigger certain things like the latent code for monogamy. Emotional
states can lower the resistance of the immune system.
becoming fact on your planet, but they do not yet understand the
intricacies of it. If your population is kept in fear, you can
trigger the immune system to accept a foreign virus to become
embedded in you.
If you as a population transmute your fear, this
virus will not be able to touch you. Period. No ifs, ands or buts.
This is why this whole challenge right now is so important for you.
Because you not only save your skin; you also become liberated as
beings on the planet.
At the risk of being redundant, it's you who are doing it to
yourselves. We will never, ever, ever give power to the idea that
someone's out to get you. You have created this scenario for very
direct purposes and understandings. You will gain out of these
scenarios what you have set out to gain. You may gain it quickly or
it may take a long time; that's really up to you. But no one, no
evil force is putting anything over on you. This is your game and
you are all chess pieces.
At one session we were talking about dis-ease and not illness and
how quickly it can be cured if you deal with why you created it.
When I asked if that included cancer, your reply was yes. When I
asked about AIDS, your reply was, "If you deal with the source of
I asked what anyone could wish to experience through AIDS; your
reply was "Total vulnerability."
So those who wish to experience
total vulnerability here can do so now in this way?
Yes. Just look at the idea of vulnerability - the
When your immune system's down you are totally vulnerable. So we
would absolutely agree with you. It is created now because there is
a reason for it to be created here now. It's a very important
process you are going through.
Even though we understand that all of
you value your physical lives, etc., the end of your physical life
is not the end of your existence. There is greater good being
accomplished by the individuals who choose to exit the plane in this
And this scenario in the present is also linked to the
scenario during the Moses time, as we were just sharing with you.
What you're doing now is cleansing that whole earlier scenario -
those wars, the idea that some of you must be saved and some not.
All of those scenarios are necessary to be cleansed.
If anyone into
genetics or medicine listens to this tape and does some research,
pulling out the ancient biblical texts that talk about the
preparation of the lamb; if they really want to take it seriously,
they will find connections - we guarantee it. You may actually be
able to find an antidote. We understand that this information may
stretch the imagination for many. The more you think about it, the
more sense it is going to make.
This scenario is something that's
been around for a long time, and has been triggered whenever
humanity wished to create a shot in the arm for whatever reason.
The Real Lesson - Empowerment and Ease
If it has a purpose of being and it's synchronistic with those who
need to have that experience, then it has its own natural outgoing.
So why should anybody really be trying to come up with an antidote?
The ultimate goal is not to find the antidote but to come to terms
with the idea of your all-empowerment and know that you need not
create learning a lesson in a painful way. You can discover this for
yourself by finding an antidote, which is what you did for polio,
Some individuals may choose not to do it that way, and
that's quite all right also. It's really up to the individual and
the society to make choices about how they want to manifest it.
A lot of AIDS research is being done in terms of sound vibration -
the shattering of the virus. We would also say that should you wish
to wait it out, the virus will naturally mutate into a dormant
stage, where it will become something that will not affect you
either positively or negatively.
However, many of you may not want
to wait until it mutates.
AIDS Projections Inaccurate
The percentages and projections of death from AIDS in the coming
years are highly inaccurate. It's all done on paper; it's
two-dimensional thinking, in that sense.
Too high or too low?
Oh, much too high.
It's not going to be as bad as they think?
No. When you calculate something on paper like that, you are
imposing your reality of calculation onto individual souls who are
going to make their own decisions. So it is not applicable. There
are many other factors that are not being considered.
certainly encourage you not to be alarmed and to do what you need to
do in your life to cultivate your own self-love, to expose your fear
and integrate it within your being. That will be better than any
antidote you could possible take.
In a more earthly question, who's
responsible for introducing AIDS
into the physical?
Well, back then it was some of the
extraterrestrial groups involved
in the warring. But in the present we would say it was the
On purpose or accidentally?
They discovered it on purpose, all right, because researchers will
play - meaning they were looking for something. To be somewhat vague
about it, certain forces got hold of the information from the
researchers and used it for their own purposes.
Is it true that the Navy Department or Army has used it by
injection? There is a theory that it has been injected in mass
We would say it is not so identifiable as the military. We are
talking about very covert shadow groups.
Was it used as a hepatitis vaccine and then introduced in that form?
Prior to that it was introduced in another way as well.
Personal Belief System the Critical Factor
Would you suggest a college-age student should engage in sexual
activities without concern?
There's a difference between discretion and
fear. In a sense, fear
will draw to you that which you fear. Discretion is common sense,
and common sense says that whatever you want to engage in in your
life you take full responsibility for.
You take all options and all
precautions, if there are any.
We would certainly not say to
"Oh, go have activities with anyone you want because it's
only a belief system."
If you don't really know what your belief
system is, then you are going down a dark hole with the lights off.
There's nothing wrong with discretion and precaution. But if you
take action out of fear, you would serve yourself more by first
addressing the fear rather than the thing you fear, and transforming
it. Then everything else will transform with it. Do you follow what
So you are saying that if an individual, through acceptance of their
own vulnerability and spiritual makeup, is convinced that they are
not vulnerable and have no fear of the AIDS virus, then they are
really invulnerable to it?
They just wouldn't draw those people to them, right?
It's not that they're invulnerable; it's that
they wouldn't draw
those people to them.
It changes the idea that AIDS is only transferred through sexual
intercourse; babies are getting it.
The thing is, if you are going to get it, you're going to get it
even from a toilet seat (if you get the drift of what we are
saying). Protecting yourself by wearing a mask every time you go
outside is not going to do it. Wearing a condom is not going to do
Are you talking about general fear (because you can have fears in
It's the fear of your own vulnerability, the fear that someone or
something can get you. If that fear rules your life, you are a prime
Aren't you also a prime target if you are sure you are invulnerable?
Might you not attract something like that just to show you that "no,
you are not"?
If your feeling of invulnerability is grandiose and covers up a
feeling of insecurity, yes. If you're feeling invulnerable, but it's
a misaligned invulnerability, then you're only covering something
else up. What it comes down to (so that you don't have to figure out
"Well, do I really feel invulnerable?") is taking each experience as
it comes. Be aware of why and when you draw things into your life.
And make decisions with discretion, which is all you really can do
in your life - the middle ground, the ground that will bring you joy
and excitement and growth.
Holistic Healing of AIDS
My ex-nutritionists got their first AIDS patient, who was dying and
wanted to try their particular diet, which is all raw foods.
he's had lots of past illnesses and was full of medication. The diet
constructed for him, strangely enough, was a lot of raw meat,
fertile eggs, honey and oranges. He said it was delicious, but
getting rid of toxins was so hard on him that after a bowel movement
he couldn't drag himself out of the bathroom.
He said everything
came out green. So it was working, it was taking care of it.
was so far gone and so weak that he just decided to give it all up
and check himself into a hospital. He knew the minute he did that he
was a dead person. The nutritionists learned that kind of a process
would work to cleanse and rebuild, although there was no way the
patient could really follow it through to its final conclusion.
There have been many cases, not isolated, of
holistic healing of
AIDS, but you're not hearing about them. The reason you're not
hearing about this is obvious if you think about it; chaos would
occur in the restructuring of your medical associations.
That would kick over a lot of pedestals.
Medical pedestals. Thank you.
I read somewhere that there's nothing that can't be healed with
something from the Earth. It has everything that can help you.
We agree. But sometimes you have to actually detox yourself to be
able to take in that herb. Many of the foods that you eat will
toxify you so much that you will not be able to benefit from the
Taking it back to the topic, even if you discover a vaccine, it's
not going to work unless you want to heal yourself. You all know
that, at least in theory. So AIDS is a very major challenge for your
planet (not that you haven't had enough challenges already).
The Purpose of Not Healing
Is there some purpose being served by not wanting to heal oneself,
by wanting to suffer rather than take a more joyous route to
There are always purposes, and the purpose may be on an individual
level. For instance, the persons themselves may feel they need to
benefit from that experience. Maybe they did something in another
lifetime and this is their way of learning about it. And then
there's a purpose in terms of how the person interacts with other
humans, and that purpose can be multifold.
Watching someone die in
pain triggers great healing emotion, and great healing emotion has
been one thing your society has avoided for a long time. So it's
very purging. There is always a purpose. In fact, nothing ever
happens that does not have a purpose.
The question is then, how much do you communicate to a person who is
really suffering that they could take another way out? Or should we
just leave them alone?
You can communicate to them new ideas, but there is a fine line
between their actively taking it and your pushing it on them. If you
see someone is willing to look in other directions, then you may
feel you can be of help to the person. If they are resistant, you
may every once in awhile put a thought out to them. If they don't
take the bait, it is not your responsibility.
Isn't it a level of evolution to take another way out, or are both
ways equally useful?
They are both equally useful. Your society is learning to emerge out
of the martyr or victim complex. It's not so much that you are
exchanging one way for a more evolved way; it's that you are
exchanging a less pleasurable way for a more fulfilling way.
When you say "your society," what do you refer to?
We refer most directly to your American society and indirectly to
your planetary society because we understand there are exceptions
when we target your society.
Why do you refer to the American society?
Because we are speaking to Americans and most of the individuals
listening to the tapes will be Americans. Also, many individuals on
your planet recognize the American as being a way-shower.
We are not
isolating the American public as being different from the rest of
the world, but what we say if often targeted toward your belief
systems here because we are talking directly to you. It might be
slightly different if we were talking to a Japanese or Australian or
In general, what needs to be communicated is
Belief Systems Can Neutralize Toxins
About belief systems: I know individuals who continue to toxify
their body - you know, Coca Cola and coffee and white flour and
sugar - and actually believe that the more they consume the more
immune they will be. Can one neutralize that belief system about
being toxic and continue to toxify themselves without its affecting
Absolutely, yes. Again, it's all belief system.
If you took a human
body without a soul and nourished it, you would find that it
responds to substances such as algae, things lower on the food
chain, wheat grass, vegetables, fruits, etc. But as soon as you
throw the soul in, you've got a belief system and you've got the
choices that soul has made.
For instance, Bob there may never have
been sick a day in his life; he eats butter on everything and always
feels wonderful, but his diet is atrocious. One day Bob dies of a
heart attack at a young age, even though he has never been sick. Bob
didn't really have a belief system about food; he ate the way he
needed to eat so that he could fulfill what he wanted to do, which
is die at an early age.
In that sense, everyone is doing what they need to do at any given
moment. As you relinquish the judgment about this, you will all
relinquish your judgment about yourself and your belief systems.
Then you will come more into alignment with some of the more natural
forms of food. If you're not there now, that's quite all right,
because it's not going to affect you. Do you see what we mean by
that? It's all your belief system.
Can there be a person who has certain tasks to accomplish and who
gets interrupted by an opposing program that sabotages or interferes
with this person's accomplishment because it would go against those
that are trying to oppress?
This can only happen if this is part of the person's blueprint and
they've chosen to be interfered with by a seemingly external source.
There can never be someone else who influences you who is not part
of your agreed-upon process.
So the first-born Egyptians who died chose to have that experience?
Yes, absolutely. That was their experience, their choice. A lot of
it was based on belief systems as well, but on the soul level there
were others reasons, depending on the individual.
Moses and the Ten Commandments
Can you enlighten us somewhat about the
Ten Commandments? Where did
they come from? I do not believe God gave Moses these tablets.
Chiseled by his own hand. The "thou shalt nots," you know, is the
patriarchal society. But there must have been a better wording
originally as guideposts.
Good question, thank you. We were earlier talking about
During that time there was a Sirian overlord who was on
and off in your history for quite a long time.
You've known this
overlord by several names, one of which is Jehovah.
ask what the relationship is between Jehovah and Yahweh. Just as you
have unbalanced people on your Earth, people with multiple
personalities, this was also common in the ET community. Jehovah,
known as the angry God, also had a very kind and compassionate side
It really would depend on the mood of the day which side
would come out. The entity Jehovah had several incarnations; some of
them were very kind and loving and some were very authoritarian. The
Ten Commandments were given to Moses by the overlord Jehovah.
is very interesting, because as you read your Bible (we're
struggling a little bit with the wording because the channel is not
Bible literate), when God was on Mt. Sinai it was described as
billowing clouds and red and rumbling spaceships. Unless you're
talking about a volcano, what causes the sky to be red with smoke
Yes, but that was not a volcano. The ETs at this time had close to
what you call rocket ships. They did not possess the ability to fold
time, so they traveled on the surface of space. When we say rocket
ships, that's what we mean. Moses went up the mountain and was
exposed to radiation from the ship. And the burning bush idea was
about his exposure to radiation there. When he came down, they asked
why he's aged so much up there. He had absorbed its radiation.
Moses had some extraterrestrial blood in him to begin with, so he
was very long-lived, even with the irradiated condition.
How long was it?
Several hundred years. The Ten Commandments were Jehovah's latest
way; he had tried many ways of instilling law and order in the
people he was supposed to oversee. The "thou shalt nots" and all of
that were softened a little, but they were still harsh and rigid.
That was a reflection of his personality. Look at what those simple
Ten Commandments have done for your world. Imagine this one
overlord - a man just like any of you in the room - squalling from
this stone and affecting a planet for millennia. Kind of funny,
Did they have laser technology at that time?
The ETs did, yes. The tablets were etched.
Did they use the language of Moses in etching these commandments?
Did Moses think of that ET as a God or as a messenger?
During that time they knew that God had a body. What you're seeing
in your Bible is not the way they thought then. If you walk up to
someone in the street and ask, "What's God?" people are very
confused. They don't know. Back then the overlords were the Gods.
You served God. You were like a handmaid to God.
God included different beings, not just one man, right?
Exactly. It was either a group or one man, etc.
So we have a patriarchal power structure right there even in those
days. There were no women Gods?
Oh, yes there were. Absolutely.
The Idea of One God
So where did the idea of one God come from?
The idea of one God was a recognition on the part of your people
dealing with the overlords that these overlords were not God, in the
sense of the Supreme Creator. They knew that they were people, not
the Supreme Creator.
There was a spiritual understanding that
recognized one Force. So now you have these two different beliefs
ingrained in your planet: Some people say God is a force; some say
it's a man sitting on a throne. Then they were clear about it. But
they thought that perhaps these overlords were closer to God and
that they were not equal to them.
What did Moses see when he looked at them? What did they look like?
Were they dressed in spacesuits or...?
No. There were very bright to his eyes. It is our understanding that
he really set eyes upon them only once or twice. At times he would
see the ship engulfed in smoke or clouds, and the bush was also a
representation. But only once did he actually look at a closer
representation of them.
It was a generated image and it was light;
it would be like looking at you and being blinded by you.
The Genetics of the First-Born
Can I take you back a moment to this first-born child, whose
genetics are slightly different from the other children in the same
family? What is the reason for the genetic material in the
first-born to be slightly different?
It was to track them so that they could keep the blood lines pure.
Is this the latent thing we are still dealing with?
Yes, this is something very much still there.
The Origin of Dysfunctional Relationships
The first-born child in each family has a harder row to hoe because
they say that the parents are not psychologically equipped or
experienced as parents and the first-born has to be the experiment
in the parent-child relationships.
Is there any connection there?
Well, it's a vague connection. The two different ET groups, the
Lyrans and the Sirians, were your models for relationship, meaning
that you took on the role of the child and they became the symbolic
parents. As you began to be fruitful and multiply, you began
treating your family as you were treated by them.
That meant that
there was no equality between parent and child, that there was
usually a conflict between the two parents, and that the first-born
child had a greater responsibility. Just about every form of
dysfunction you have now in terms of family dynamics has come from
the patterning of your relationship with these early
We marvel at this. You know, we love you all so much. But sometimes
it is baffling as we look at the dynamics and see what you've been
through and how your present core beliefs result from the patterns
from your early ET forefathers. It is amazing. And that hasn't
dawned on you yet, meaning your mass consciousness.
You can see how valuable this information is that you're sharing
with us. How valuable this could be if it were disseminated on a
Valuable only to a point, because those who wish to heart it will
hear it and others will not.
Information of this sort is coming out in groups all over the world.
Yes, it is. And the language will be couched in the belief system
the people will be able to understand. Yes.
What is the difference between people like us here who are really
into this information and people who are not in the least bit
interested or attracted to it? Is there a different level of soul
evolution, or are we from different places? Why are we attracted to
it and so many other people not?
It's more that you've chosen to be a trigger in this lifetime;
that's why you are attracted to it. For instance, you all know the
story about the hundredth monkey. Your whole society one by one does
not have to change. When enough people change, the whole society
changes. Those of you who are attracted to this are the ones
bringing in the new ideas.
Numbers of people are needed to resonate
with new information, but after that the point becomes moot because
you all will kick over no matter if one more gets involved or not.
And are we heading toward that?
Absolutely, without question. Yes!
Jehovah and the First God
I'd like to get back to the Jehovah discussion.
I am somewhat
familiar with Biblical language, so I know that Jehovah is not a
Hebrew word and is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. It's merely a
transliteration of an acronym which stands for God. That acronym is
always interpreted as First God. The name Jehovah doesn't exist in
Hebrew at all.
Correct. It is a name that you use now, but it is not inherent to
that time. Thank you for bringing that up. You see how the whole
idea of the first cause or God as being an energy or force becomes
confused with the idea of a person; thus when you attempt to look at
a religious connection it becomes a model.
So you're saying that in the Bible there are two references, one to
the First God and the other to these ETs, these overlords?
It really depends on the particular story you are talking about. For
instance, Elohim is a group rather than one person. Jehovah may be
one soul but many incarnations.
But Jehovah is nonexistent in the Bible - isn't that an accurate
Yes. But the name is used as a label. And there have been other
connections. The Sumerians... well, we really don't want to get into
that. The connection with
Enki in the Sumerian text with
not a direct connection. They're not the same soul, but it's the
same soul family.
Do you follow what we mean? We would like to
clarify for you, so please engage us.
The Hebrew name that has been transliterated into
Jehovah refers to
that which always was, is, and always will be. That's the definite
reference to the First God, not to an overlord.
Yes. We are saying that the Bible has confused several different
issues. The Jehovah that you speak of and the reference is not what
we are calling the angry God person.
So you're saying Moses had different experiences at different times
and conveyed different messages?
Some of his experiences were not in communication with anybody but
were just a meditation, picking up wavelengths?
Absolutely correct. Another tactic, shall we say, was communication
to some of these people like Moses through disguised sources. You
have this now - double agents. It is just another way to cause
When you can confuse, you can control.
The Overlords Now
Did the overlords just die off and not perpetuate? I don't
understand when they came to an end or why or how.
There were periods of time where the balance of power shifted on
your planet - for instance, the time of the Flood (just to throw a
random event in here). Prior to the Flood the Lyrans were in power
and after the Flood, primarily the Sirians. Through various periods
of time descendants would come and claim the rights of their
forefathers, and that's where the struggle would happen.
It's not that we're being restricted, but you must understand that
we have what we feel to be valid reasons for not talking about
what's going on right now. Part of this has to do with the fact that
this is not your battle. The whole idea of co-dependency and
enabling shows that it will not serve you to become involved in
this. It is not your business, in terms of your day-to-day life.
They cannot affect your day-to-day life.
They still exist then, the overlords?
They are still in existence, but they no longer control like they
used to because enough of you are on to them. (As a example, the
entity you called
Hitler had some contacts with one of the Lyran
overlords.) They are very limited as to what they can do on your
planet right now.
Spiritually, a lot of us here are more evolved than some of the
overlords are, as far as understanding that everything has its right
place and its own power...?
In terms of your being willing to work through these issues,
absolutely so. In a sense, you can say that they come from a past
orientation. Remember what we said: They are you. So it's your past
selves acting up or acting out.
When we said for you not to get
involved in it, we don't mean not to take responsibility for your
past, because that is important; we mean, don't bring that into the
present and perpetuate it. Let two kids fight it out and it's pretty
If you go in as a parent or another person and point your
finger and yell, you're only going to make it worse.
Inherited Parenting Patterns
Would you speak more about the parenting patterns that we inherited?
Yes. We will speak more about this in the future, but we will give
you some basic dynamics. The Lyran manifestation, the more
authoritarian manifestation, would be like the father. The Sirian
manifestation, even though it is authoritarian, takes on the mother
role because they're the ones that always were trying to protect you
(even though at the same time some of them were stabbing you in the
What you have here is a dynamic between Mother and Father who
have their own agendas in dealing with you. They sometimes present a
united front, but they have their own agendas.
Within the hierarchy as it was in the past, the Sirians would mostly
defer to Lyrans, the mother deferring to the father. "Go ask your
That's one dynamic that was instigated, that somehow the
father figure in the relationship is the dominant one. It has
nothing to do with societal roles - that they earn more money or
that they're the one that goes to work or whatever. It's the
There have been ancient civilizations who switched the
roles, so it's not a given, but it's a very strong factor on your
Pattern of Family Secrecy
- Molding Your Species Identity
One of the other manifestations of patterning is in
the realm of
There's a lot of secrecy in families just like
there is in government. And whenever there are secrets not shared,
chaos erupts. Secrets are like a magnet in a relationship; you're
always drawn in the direction of the force of the magnet. And the
magnet is like a black hole, because every time you look you can't
So whenever these early forefathers of yours would
interact with you, you would feel their secrets, meaning what they
are ashamed of, what they fear, all of that.
Because they're not
willing to lay their cards on the table, you see them as being
somewhat above you - they don't have any problems they are very
pious and good. This is passed down from you as you interact with
your own children; parents present a front where nothing is admitted
to be wrong. They are almost superhuman.
How many of you remember
looking at your parents and thinking they didn't have any problems,
they didn't have any secrets? That's the paradox; that's the
dynamic. It was very obvious to many people that they did, even
though they "shouldn't." A lot of confusion has occurred because of
this early patterning.
Right now in your time period you're paying a lot of attention to
how you have gotten to be who you are because of your parents and
how they have gotten to be who they are because of their parents and
on and on and on. But you've not yet taken it all the way back to
the source. When did it start? It didn't start from some great
grandfather who was an alcoholic. It goes further than that. It goes
to the source. It goes to your species identity.
Who is responsible for molding your species identity? Who was it?
The parents, whoever they were. An immense responsibility.
So as you
expand your consciousness you begin to be able to look back into
that void and see just how far the chain goes back to the source.
Once you target your forefathers, you have all of your forefathers'
development to look at. But it won't be quite like that; we're
dealing with a planetary dynamic here.
Very liberating for you.
Integration and Balance Male/Female
Would you speak about this role-patterning in connection with the
During early civilization, very early, you were all dependent on the
Gods. They provided you with food, shelter, and a reason to live.
When you grow up, especially in the first few years of life, your
parent is your world. That's one aspect of it.
In response to your idea of the women's movement, women and men have
exchanged roles throughout time. If you go back to the source of the
human identity, women were valued because of the stock they could
produce. We understand that's a painful thought for many women.
the minds of the Gods men were valued because of the strong physical
work they could do and for the occasional sperm seed to help along
the race. But frequently it was the Gods who impregnated the women -
hence the divine Goddess image.
In the last hundred years as you are now coming to consciousness, as
you are coming to an awakening, you will have to come to terms with
your planetary identity and your identity as reflections of
polarity, meaning male/female, and how there's male within female
and female within male. Part of what you've experienced with the
whole revolution is an attempt, however dramatic, to bring it to
Just a few year ago the big thing was women's spirituality. Just
several years later it's men's groups. You are all desperately
trying to find a center, to find a male within a female and a female
within the male. You're going to find it. You're going to find it
and you're going to discover your spirituality in this, because no
longer is your identity your body or what you can provide to your
parental God. That idea is gone.
Your Bible or your
Christian or your Catholic says to have sex only
for procreation. Do only this, do only that. Sex should never be
enjoyable, etc. Again, this is the idea of controlling the body
functions, the idea of women being child-bearers and men being
basically good for only one thing. Those ideas are changing. That's because of the development if the integrated human being now.
You're going to see more and more and more of this in the coming
years. Especially look to your children. Adults are now learning to
re-pattern their children different from the way they were patterned.
So a whole new paradigm will be formed. From where we sit, it's
I wanted to ask about what the esoteric significance of the other
sacrifices were later on in the bible?
Can you give an example?
Well, in the time of the temple in Jerusalem there were many
It would really depend at the time on what was going on as well as
the significance of the particular animal. For instance, a lamb is
very vulnerable. (Lamb, AIDS, vulnerability - all have the same
idea.) It would really depend on the time period, the instance, and
the particular animal as to what the significance was. Look at the
surrounding events, look at the symbology, and you will be able to
Use your imagination.
The Raising of Lazarus
What about Lazarus, what he really did and how long he lasted after
he was risen? His life couldn't have been quite normal.
We are accessing channel memory; there's no reference, so you will
have to tell the story in order for us to respond in your language.
Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Lazarus had died. The family of
Lazarus came running to Jesus for help, so Jesus went to the tomb
and called down in a loud voice and Lazarus came forth from the
tomb. Could it be that Lazarus was really in a coma and Jesus was
wise enough to recognize that? That is one of the theories.
To our understanding, the body had not died. The situation was a
coma-like state, but at that point when Lazarus woke there was a soul
exchange, what you would consider to be a
And of course Jesus was said to have performed a miracle.
That it was his doing. He's the kind of dude that was in the right
place at the right time.
Renegotiating Your Future an Easier Way
I've come to realize that a lot of things that have happened in my
life are because I agreed to them at some level of consciousness.
if I'm having an experience and I disagree with it, how can I
Excellent question. You are never bound by your agreement, like a
marriage contract. Let's give you an analogy. When you come into a
lifetime, your oversoul chooses that you go down a certain hallway.
Go down that hallway you will. No matter what else you do, you're
going to go down that hallway.
As far as how you go down that
hallway, that is entirely your doing. You can run; you can go
backward; you can cartwheel. That's the difference between your
oversoul choice and your free-will choice. Your oversoul creates the
hallway, but you are the one who chooses how to go down it.
Let's say that you've chosen to create chronic pain in your leg.
Now, you recognize this was an agreement to get you to the point
right now that there's something you wish to realize. First would be
to recognize and own that you've made that agreement. The next step
would be to understand why you've made that agreement.
that's difficult for many people; it can be painful because it might
be something you don't really want to see. What were you trying to
teach yourself? Why did you choose to have the pain in your leg?
Then the third step would be to discover a way in your head that you
can give yourself the same lesson in a more comfortable way. As you
go through this process consciously, it's going to renegotiate your
You get to the point of number three, where you say,
can give myself the same message by doing this instead of this."
When you get that realization you are going to break the hold you
have on the negative pattern, the pattern you don't prefer. Step
four is to begin to actively engage the new preference or behavior.
Take one step at a time. There's no rush to go through any of the
Do you follow?
Yes. Is it possible that my oversoul made two conflicting
agreements? Or a walk-in situation?
Your oversoul will never create something that can't be resolved.
Now, rarely an oversoul might create something that couldn't be
resolved because you needed to experience unresolution. That's not
the case here. Your oversoul will not create something that cannot
The walk-in experience is a lot less frequent than people think.
Often the new energy that comes in is a part of you that braids with
you rather than replaces you.
Do you follow?
I have a question then regarding the blueprint that you have through
astrology. Is that the oversoul's blueprint or the one that shows
how you are going to walk down that hallway?
It's the oversoul's helping to build the hallway. For instance, as
you're going down the hallway, it's like an area that gives you
traction. Let's say you have a certain thing in your chart that says
that you could have good interpersonal relationships. It's giving
you traction in the hallway so that whatever you choose to do, your
foot won't slip. But if you want, you can totally ignore that. It's
something that's given to you as a tool if you want to use it.
In the area of astrology where your houses are empty, can you start
making your own chart consciously?
Yes. It won't change your birth information, but you will draw to
you energy that perhaps you didn't previously realize was at your
disposal. It's like changing your reality.
Can you expand upon that last statement a little bit? I guess I'm
wanting a little bit more information.
It basically has to do with setting up something that you want to
create in your life. Using a chart is one way to do it, but it's not
the only way. The dynamic of doing that is the same whether you use
your chart or just do it in a notebook or in your head or whatever.
Set out to draw something to you and start playing with the idea of
becoming that thing.
Hitler's ET Connections
Can you tell us what the nature of Hitler's meeting with that
Hitler was a very ingenious and intelligent man; in some ways he was
also used as a puppet. He was aware of the existence of
extraterrestrials. He was aware, at least in the abstract, of the
existence of a particular energy that he was tapping into.
We do not
perceive there was an actual face-to-face meeting, but he was
conscious of the idea that he was receiving guidance from another
realm. It was Lyran in nature, authoritarian, stern. Lyran is also
Caucasian, Aryan. One of the things we did not mention today is
where prejudice comes from on your planet.
The primary, top-of-the-hierarchy Gods were Caucasian. That's where
it came form. There was a belief then that the higher evolved you
are, the whiter your skin. (Ask a Klu Klux Klan member and they will
tell you that.)
When you said that the Hebrews were under a Sirian, that didn't
register with me because I thought they were considered white.
In the chart we gave you [from
Prism of Lyra by Lyssa Royal and
Keith Priest, 1990] it's more of a Vegan connection. As it plays out
on your planet they are still Caucasians, but it's a different
genetic strain. When you look at Hitler, then, it's the Lyran
overlord attempting to get back at the Sirians through Hitler.
In the case of the Hebrews, I'm still not clear why...
Sirian connection. That's why the Hebrews were his primary target.
What are the Lyrans getting back at the Sirians for?
age-old territorial dispute that started in the Lyran
system and was brought to Earth. Earth was seen as a very rich
environment, desired by many groups who were colonizing.
So it was rich in minerals, natural resources and that sort of thing
that the Lyrans coveted?
That was what it was at the beginning. But then the race that you
became was very tantalizing. You were a very challenging species to
Claiming Our Power and Unified Identity
If we are fighting only ourselves, then any outside group we draw to
our planet that would still war over us is still created by us?
They exist outside of you. They are independent of you, but you have
attracted them to you because of what you need to resolve within
In other words, they're mirroring what we're still working out. So
the idea of a continual war over Earth - the taking of and
colonizing - is still very much in existence until we finish this?
Until you claim your power and have a unified planetary identity.
The reason you are still seen as something to be claimed is because
you haven't claimed yourself.
Why haven't they come down enmasse and just taken over?
Because their tactic, their philosophy, has been to divide and
conquer. if they come down enmasse you will unify because it's a
common enemy, and you would be able to oppose them.
What you are describing sounds like they are more powerful but we
are more spiritual.
Interesting way you worded it. They are more powerful in the
physical sense, in that maybe they have more technology than you.
But you have a power that no one else has. It's a power that's born
from the integrative process you've gone through, not just form your
inception on this planet, but you as them and their past. Right now
you possess your Earth history of integration as well as the history
of the forefathers. They possess only their history.
So in all your descriptions it does not sound like they are moving
toward any goal except territorial claims and power plays. It does
not seem that they are working on themselves the way you're telling
us to work on ourselves.
They are doing it in the sense that their numbers are rapidly
decreasing. That's an indication. Way back in the forefather days
their numbers were very large. Their numbers are smaller now.
Are you going to identify the "they" as any particular group?
We would not do it justice by doing that, because the identities
we're giving you, Lyran and Sirian, are ancient labels. Today it's a
little bit different. It's more clear for us to talk about dynamics
rather than labels.
If their numbers are diminishing, does that mean there are more
reincarnating here for this experience?
To take the active role in integration, yes. Those who are only bent
on domination are getting pretty tired of losing or at least
stalemating, and are going somewhere else, as are those who are not
interested in your growth.
Is there anything we can or should do upon encountering some of
these energies that are incarnating now who are stalemating? Those
are friends of ours and who are going through this process but
There really is not much you can do except be willing to present new
ideas to them. If they wish to reject them, that's their
responsibility. But just be willing to give an idea, a new idea,
that can trigger someone into a whole series of realizations. Other
than that, there's not really any responsibility.
You have enough to
handle with yourselves.
Meeting These ETs
I understand that within the next ten years most of the planet will
become aware that there are UFOs, that there are ETs, and that
been visited by them for years. How's that going to affect the idea
of these overlords?
They are going to be exposed through a series of events. The first
would expose the cover-up. Even though many of you really enjoy
drama, there is a possibility that the cover-up may never be exposed.
There is a reason for this. You will start your relationship with
them in the present.
Like this is a surprise to them, too, like it just happened?
That may be the clean way to do it, a way for them to cover their
bases that would provide a major service to everyone, so that
everyone can work on healing the past without the scandal and the
emotions that would confuse the issue. That's a possibility. If "cover-up"
is thrown around, then those reactions may become mixed with the
emotion of discovering your galactic family, and things may become
Will it create the idea in the minds of people on this planet that
they are not evolved enough, and they will thus start all over
worshipping these Gods?
We don't perceive that will happen. Remember, you are them, and all
you have experienced since the time you worshipped them is to get
you away from this idea. There may be individuals on your planet who
may do so; those would be individuals who are fearful of their own
power and must give it to someone else. But as a whole, we do not
perceive that will happen.
We frequently study the natural development of planetary
civilizations who go through the period you are in now - becoming
globally unified and bringing in your connections from
extraterrestrial sources. The stage you are at right now is the
natural state, the natural timing, when you break the process of
Would this interchange, if it weren't used as a
cover-up and there
were mass visitations, be short-term; would there be a common
interchange; or would there be a certain event set aside?
Things are happening so fast on your planet right now that it is our
understanding there may be a fervor when it begins that may last a
year or maybe less, and then it will be business as usual.
the "powers that be," the group that has the appearance of
the control of planet Earth -
the banking system - and has been for
some time: They have been working with extraterrestrials; have they
been working out of the Lyran idea [authoritarianism] made more
Their agenda (maybe not consciously) has been to heal their Lyran
connections, so they're recreating it in order to heal it.
Although their apparent motive is to gain power.
Yes, because that's the way to get themselves to that point, from
which they can take it for healing. That's the starting point for
the healing, as they see it.
That will also be their demise, in a way, a breaking down of the
power idea, and this will relate to the rest of the planet.
And it's also important to remember that you have all set it up this