Phoenix, Arizona

September 2008

Spanish Version

from ProjectCamelot Website



I'm not paranoid. I just pay attention.
Retired Command Sergeant Major Robert Dean


When we met with Bob Dean in May 2007, he stated that ours would be his last interview. After its publication, we received more mail - all of it generous and appreciative, without exception - than for any other interview we have ever done.


We were therefore quite delighted when he agreed to talk with us on record once again.





When we asked Bob what he wanted to discuss, he told us that he had important news, from his own inside sources, about Nibiru: the highly controversial Planet X.


This video contains extremely important information for all students of Planet X to consider.

True to form, Bob recounts other intriguing stories, including the NRO's classified discovery of "a goddamn boat" high on Mount Ararat, and confirmation of Henry Deacon's report that the Anunnaki are active on present-day Mars.


His humanity, his dignity, his integrity and his humor all shine once again in this new video, and we are very confident that everyone who so enjoyed Bob's 2007 interview with us will find this just as entertaining, interesting, and valuable.



Interview Transcript

Bob Dean: Some of our remote viewers have concluded that, yes, itís going to happen this time, that we and it will be on the same side of the sun at the same time. And if the remote viewer...


And theyíre getting their own information from ETs, from sources within the U.S. government that tell me that, yes, they are deeply concerned about it. And theyíre worried sick about it. And they donít know what to do about it.

... What could the government or anyone else tell you? What could they say to you? Would they tell you: Grab your hat? Dig a hole? Hang on!?

... He says: Oh, it seems to be a rather nice planet, and we know about it, and all we need to do is name it. And then, bless his heart... You know, heíd never had a heart problem, but within a year he was dead with a heart attack.

... Incredible race of humans... does have a future. And it is in the stars. And we are going out there to reclaim our rightful place.

... Itís kind of amusing considering that the last time we met, I told you it was to be my last interview and here I am again. And, you know, how can I explain that?


Start of interview

Kerry Cassidy: We have gotten the most incredible response to your interview. I have to say itís actually been the most popular of all our interviews...

BD: Thatís nice to hear.

KC: ... and I think that there is a reason for that.

BD: Well, thank you.

KC: I think that in many ways you put yourself on the line, and you actually embody the curiosity that was, like, rampant in all of us. And you did it at a time when... and in the military, no less. And you broke rules, and you kind of stuck it out. Youíre just... Youíre like...Youíre just... I donít know... a one-man disclosure project, as far as Iím concerned.

BD: Well, thank you, Kerry. Thatís very kind of you to say that. But let me explain something. I was a ďnormal human beingĒ for a big portion of my life. You know, I was a career military, no-nonsense kind. I wore a crew cut. When I learned what I learned in 1963, í64, í65, it changed my life. It changed my way of thinking. And I became obsessed with what I had learned. And, over the years, Iíve learned so much more.

And as I may have mentioned to you earlier, I learned a little bit; I wanted more. You know, talk about an addiction! When you start learning some things about a subject that is so profound... The more I learned, the more I wanted to know, and the more I wanted to know, the more I learned, and the more I learned, the more obsessed I became, and...

You talk about losing your paradigm. My old paradigm literally crumbled around my knees. You know, the world that I thought I lived in, I learned was not the world that I lived in. And the reality that I looked around and thought I saw was not the reality that exists, that much of what we see is an illusion. Itís a result of our own illusions.

We... we humans sometimes, rather than face reality, we create a little world of our own. You know, we get up and go to work. We raise the kids. We buy a house. Buy a car. Take a vacation. Go on about our lives. Try to save money, put a little in the bank for the kidsí college. And live a ďnormal lifeĒ.

And then I learned that thereís no such thing as a ďnormal lifeĒ, that the world that exists is not at all what we think it is. And the more I learned... As I said, my old paradigm crashed around my knees, and... [sighs]

Iím sitting here in front of you as a human wreck, you might say, you know, as to what I used to be. Because I lived in a world that was kind of cut and dried. Oh, you know, do this, do that... You pay your bills, you... Itís not that way at all!

KC: Well, letís cut to the chase here, because you have come forward. Actually, you contacted us, Iím going to say, and said youíve got something new to say. Youíve got something new to tell the people. And I know youíre going to be speaking at the Bay Area Conference. And this is amazing.

And letís find out what is it thatís new. What is it that youíre willing to...

BD: You want me to divulge to you my great revelations which Iím planning to speak about at the conference, right?

KC: Absolutely! [Bob laughs] And you know, this video will not be edited and out there before the conference, so you donít have to worry that weíre going to ruin it for the viewers at the conference.

BD: Well, there are lots of little tidbits that are kind of interesting to me. I assume, I hope, theyíll be interesting to the people at San Jose.

Itís been my experience that the people who attend those conferences are pretty wide open, open-minded. As I jokingly used to say, when I speak there, itís like preaching to the choir, you know. Because theyíre a different group of people.

Iíll give you a tiny tidbit which I found interesting. As you perhaps have understood, I have been a member of what we used to jokingly call The Old Boys' Network. Iíve been a member of it for over 40 years. And when we created this group, it was made up of military types, primarily, all ranks, all services. And we even had a couple of cosmonauts who were connected with this, who were providing information.

Well, over the years, the old boys have shared information with each other, because weíve had a variety of assignments and jobs in the military. We had a couple of admirals. We had a general, and two cosmonauts. We had innumerable colonels and command sergeant majors and people from all walks, everywhere, who provided information we used to share with each other.

And some of us have been in very sensitive positions and had access to very highly classified material. And weíve been very open about sharing that with others, which kind of kept us going for a long, long time.

There arenít a hell of a lot of us left. The last time I... Originally, there was roughly about 150 members of this group, and today thereís probably not more than a dozen left.

We lost a good one. You know, Graham Bethune died here, about a year ago. And Graham was a retired Navy Commander who was a dear man who had some very sensitive information he used to share with us.

But, as I point out, we shared among ourselves. And then a few of us came out blatantly, purposely, and started sharing what we had learned with the public. Frankly, I never thought I was going to to get away with it! I thought that they were going to stomp on me, and you know, eliminate me, or whatever.

There was even rumors, for Godís sake, that they were going to call me back to active duty and court martial me! [Kerry laughs] You know. Well, Iím going to be 80 at my next birthday, so I donít think they want to call me back to active duty. You know, I could have an accident...

But, I think why I am getting away with what I am getting away with, so to speak - where I am releasing bits and pieces of this cover-up - is that thereís somebody back there somewhere who wants me to do what Iím doing. Or I would not have been able to do this.

But let me give you a tiny tidbit of bits and pieces that come from The Old Boysí Network: There is an organization called the National Reconnaissance Office. Youíve probably heard of them.

KC: Absolutely.

BD: A very super-secret group, a super-secret group among super-secret groups. God, weíve got so damn many groups now.

As I used to jokingly say, when poor old Ike left office, he tried to tell us about the military-industrial complex? Well, itís a triad now. Itís not just the military and industry. Itís the national security agencies as well. So, if he could see it today, heíd be shocked even more. Of course, Iím sure heís alive and well somewhere, probably looking down and chuckling.

But, we are a triad now: The super-secret agencies with the military and the industries. Itís all like this. [clasps hands together]

But, anyhow, there are people who I think want this out. Weíve known for years that among the ďin crowdĒ... whoever the hell they are, and no one really has ever been able to put our finger on it. Weíve been able to grab a couple of íem from the old Magi Group. The Wise Men, they called themselves... the Magi. Youíve heard them referred to as the Majestic Twelve. Well, they are a lot more than twelve now.

Anyhow, Iím getting away with sharing bits and pieces and tidbits which intrigue me because I think somebody wants some of this out.

But the story I was going to share with you is that... In the National Reconnaissance Office, about, I guess four or five years now, they had for a number of years a series of satellites called the Keyhole System. Have you heard of it?

KC: Ah, yes.

BD: Keyhole. It was super-secret and probably the very best satellite system in the world. Well, theyíve probably made it even better now. They could supposedly read a postage stamp from space.

Well, there were some intriguing questions being raised by a number of people about what was known as the Ararat Anomaly. Are you familiar with the Ararat Anomaly?

Bill Ryan: Mount Ararat. Noahís Ark.


BD: And so, the guys in the NRO took their Keyhole system and focused on the Ararat Anomaly, which is, you know, a puzzle. Well, when the word got out, when the pictures were finally down-loaded and they computerized and enhanced them and cleaned them up, and they pushed them on the wall or they broadcast them on the wall there at NRO, the remarks went something like this - and these are actual quotes: Jesus Christ, itís a god-damn boat! Christ! Itís a big boat!

OK. One would say: Why would something like that be so highly classified that it is way above top secret? Why would the discovery of a boat on Mount Ararat be classified so far above, you know... anything?

Anyhow, the story comes out. The reason they classified it is because, after they discovered that it is a god-damn boat, a big god-damn boat, they inserted a team of SEALs on the site. Thatís a term that the military uses to put a bunch of guys on a scene.

KC: Right.

BD: Apparently they dropped them by aircraft. They parachuted down, a dozen of them or so. They inserted them onto the scene and these guys spent several days in this god-damn boat. And then they extracted them by helicopters.

And when they extracted them, the guys brought with them some ďanomalous artifactsĒ which have never been described or named. But those anomalous artifacts is what led to this whole thing being classified not only Top Secret, but the way the hell above.

And thatís a little bit of information thatís come out via the network of the Old Boys.

KC: So are you saying this is Noahís Ark?

BD: No one knows what it is. It was originally the Ararat Anomaly, but then they discovered that it was a gigantic boat, apparently, and...

KC: But a boat built by humans?

BD: Well, it appears to be. Itís essentially, from what they gathered, wood. But, itís a work of genius, apparently. It was intricately put together, and itís really...

KC: And itís survived all these years.

BD: Well, apparently. The question, how many years? You know... when was the flood? The last rumor I heard had that it was 12,000 years ago: 10,500 BC.

KC: When are they saying? I mean, Iím sure you have a theory.

BD: Well, the religious implications of it, you see. You know, every ancient culture on the planet has a similar tradition about a flood, and Iím sure there were many Noahs, so to speak, wherever.

But the idea that this particular thing is so theologically sensitive that some yo-yo back there at NRO decided to classify it... And then they sent the SEALs in and the SEALs brought back artifacts. Well, there you are, you see!

What could they have possibly found in this big wreck that is so sensitive? The question arises. I donít know the answer to that. Hopefully, if the Old Boys still stays alive a few years, we might find out.

I find that interesting and I share it with people because it gives you an insight into that bunch of nitwits back there that classify everything! [Kerry laughs]

KC: Bill, go ahead with your question about Mount Ararat. And then weíre going to move on from there.

BR: I think it was Charles Berlitz who wrote a book which was called The Lost Ship of Noah. And he published a bunch of photographs - these photographs are on the internet - of something that looks like a ship on Ararat. And there are two versions of this, from what Iíve heard. One is fairly low down, and which is an enormous thing that looks like a whole lot of shipís timbers.

KC: And there are persistent reports of another object thatís much higher up, way above the snow line, quite close to the summit. And I wonder if you could say which of these, if either, has been picked up by the Keyhole satellites and analyzed? And when the SEALs were inserted, did they carbon-date the wood?

BD: Oh, Iím sure they must have. But I havenít got any information on that.

My guess is, Bill, that the SEALs were inserted on the one toward the top, above the snow line. Thatís the indication that I got, that that was the one that... They went in, they landed, they dropped, they parachuted in and spent a number of days up there, apparently.

But what they brought back in terms of anomalous artifacts is the thing that intrigued me. Why would they classify it so far above Top Secret?

But that bunch of nitwits back there.... And Iíve known some of them over the years; Iíve worked with some of them. And I think they are a bunch of damn nitwits! You know, there is no damn reason why theyíve classified so much.

KC: What year was this when the SEALs were sent in?

BD: About five years ago, from what I can gather.

KC: Really?

BD: Yes.

KC: Thatís bizarre.

BD: Well, the Keyhole program was really big in the late í90s. Now, Iím sure theyíve got satellite programs that are even better now. Weíve got civilian programs that are so damn good that the Department of Defense will often go to the civilian contractors and buy photographs taken by civilian satellites that are outstanding.

So it leads you to suspect, maybe, what... how much better could be some of our DoD satellites.

KC: Right.

BD: You know, they have classified Lake Vostok. They took it away from JPL who was monitoring it and, you know, with satellites and all... Are you familiar with Lake Vostok in Antarctica?

KC: No.

BD: Oh, God, thatís a sensitive story in itself!

Under the ice in Antarctica there is a fresh-water lake deep, deep down under the ice, thatís 100 miles long and 50 miles wide. Fresh water. The temperature in the damn lake is about 65 degrees, which is pleasant swimming, you might say.

But at the end of Lake Vostok is whatís known as a gigantic masscon - a mass concentration of metal, very similar to the masscons they discovered on the Moon - a gigantic, circular-shaped, metallic object deep under the ice at the end of Lake Vostok.

Highly classified. JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) had it. The National Security Agency took it away from JPL. Itís one of the most sensitive things in the world now, as to what is the anomaly at the end of the lake - the mass con - the mass concentration that is so easily picked up by satellite? Another top secret, you know?

KC: Mm hm.

BD: But the common folk, youíre not supposed to know that.

KC: Right.

BD: Why? Well, you canít handle it, you see. The implications of it are just too vast.

KC: Well, tell me this: Do the Chinese know it?

BD: Oh, Iím sure they do. As you may know, the Chinese now have gone into space in a big way. It never gets into the newspaper, but the last I heard, the Chinese have a satellite orbiting the Moon, taking lots of pictures.

Well, Iím hoping that the Chinese publish a lot of those pictures, because our own NASA people took many, many pictures. The Army took thousands of pictures under the Clementine Project. Are you familiar with Clementine?

KC: Iíve heard of it.

BD: It was not a NASA program. It was an Army program, Department of Defense. They took thousands of pictures. Theyíve only released a dozen or so. They took pictures all around the Moon, back side, bottom, top, everywhere.

KC: Well, are you in touch with Richard Hoagland?

BD: I know Richard. Heís a good friend.

KC: OK. So you know some of his recent research.

BD: Ah, well, I read his recent book, which is dynamite.

KC: Uh huh. OK. So, you know about the Secret Space Program.

BD: Oh, yes.

KC: And you know about the von Braun and the Nazis and whatís been carried over to the U.S. political system.

BD: Oh, yes. Itís bigger than that. Itís much bigger.

KC: OK. But when I raised up Richard Hoaglandís information and the stuff that heís been bringing forward about von Braun, the Nazis, you know, Paperclip... and youíre saying itís much beyond that.

BD: It is.

KC: So where are we going with that?

BD: Our original space program was all a product of the Nazi party. Without von Braun and his crew and the Paperclip program, I donít think we would have gotten to the Moon when we did, or we certainly wouldnít have beaten the Russians. Because the Russians grabbed their crowd... they also went into Germany and grabbed a bunch of scientists.

And the Russians have a tremendous scientific program of their own. You know, they didnít need Nazi scientists. They would have eventually done it on their own anyhow.

But one of the biggest secrets of all is the Secret Space Program, the fact that NASA is... Itís like Blue Book used to be. I think itís a public relations front.

KC: Right. Yes.

BD: Blue Book never handled the real good stuff. And everybody knew that, except the common folk out there who were diddled regularly and never told the truth about anything.

But the big secret seems to have been for so long, is: Why are we keeping classified the enormous facilities on the Moon? And theyíre not ours.

KC: Whose are they?

BD: Well, thatís a good question. I can tell you flatly who they are.


BD: Are you familiar with the term Anunnaki?

KC: Absolutely.

BD: All right. Well, you really have to understand Zecharia Sitchinís work to really grasp where we stand today in relationship with this group of intelligences. And, Iím not speaking of one. There are several. The last I heard, there were four different groups we were relating with. The Anunnaki are one. And there are others.

KC: OK. I mean, this is very interesting. Can you describe the Anunnaki that you... First of all, have you had exposure to them face-to-face?

BD: Me?

KC: Yes.

BD: Yes, I have met some face-to-face. Now, whether they were the Anunnaki, I donít know.

KC: OK, well...

BD: The ones Iíve met face-to-face were typically human.

KC: Typically human.

BD: I mean, they put on a suit and tie, a dress, blue jeans, T-shirt...


BD: ...walk in our midst, and you would never know.

KC: And they werenít nine feet tall, or higher?

BD: No. The ones Iíve met and the ones Iíve seen aboard the ships are not that big at all. Theyíre just like us.

KC: Uh huh.

BD: So, weíre dealing with four different groups that Iíve concluded - my own personal view.


BD: You might talk to Jim Sparks and he might tell you there are eight, or ten, or a dozen more. I donít know. I can only tell you what little bit Iíve learned over the years.

There are four different groups that Iíve encountered, and they are all humanoid. One group is completely human. And not all of the Anunnaki are nine feet tall. They were human enough that we are related to them, and theyíre related to us.

And that lovely little story in Chapter Six of Genesis is quite true. They did, indeed, engineer the genes and chromosomes of an existing species on this planet... God knows how long ago. Sitchin says it was 200,000 years.

The information I have learned indicates one of the major tweakings took place about 60,000 years ago, that Homo sapiens sapiens were tweaked and genetically manipulated even more. So, weíre coming along slowly.

KC: OK, so what four races? Letís name íem, in your opinion.

BD: Well, there are the humans.


BD: Some people call them the Nordics. Then you have guys that are very pale, and very tall, and very broad...

KC: Uh huh.

BD: ... which some people refer to as the big whites.


BD: And then you have the little guys.

KC: The Grays? And then the Anunnaki. So those are the four youíre familiar with.

BD: And not all of the Grays are an evolved species. Some of them appear to be... What is the term they used to use? They were an artificial life form.

KC: Androids?

BD: Yes, they were humanoid androids, but they were constructed. Theyíre laboratory products. And they often wondered why, in cases of crashes where there were survivors, that some of them didnít come back and try to retrieve.

And the story that came out among the military for many years was that they wrote íem off! They went back and made more.

Now, there are some people who say, Well, they donít have a soul. Well, Iíve run into human beings that I begin to wonder whether they had a soul. [Kerry laughs]


KC: OK. So...

BD: There are two types of Grays, from what Iíve learned. There are the little guys who appear to be laboratory products. And then there are the six-foot Grays whose eyes are more round. And theyíre not really gray. Theyíre just sort of a chalky, off-white color.

KC: Mm hm.

BD: And they seem to be an evolved race all of their own. And I think those are the ones that probably ran into Betty Hill and Barney at the incident many years ago.

KC: Have you heard about Dan Burisch talking about the Orions? Theyíre sitting in ships, along with the military, actually watching the planet right now?

BD: Iíve heard bits and pieces of that. I donít know too much about Danís story. Heís come out with a great many things.

KC: OK. But this is just new information that he has actually come forward with.

BD: Well...

KC: And theyíre watching the planet to see what happens, and whether or not we have a catastrophe of any kind...

BD: We have got...

KC: ...and whether they might have to step in.

BD: We have photographs, and many of them Iím going to share at the show. I have slides, and photographs, of gigantic objects. Iím talking about humongous objects in space! And many of them are satellites in their orbit around the planet. Many of them are in orbit around the Moon, around Mars.

I have a couple of pictures that Iím going to share that I got from a Soviet cosmonaut on what happened with the Phobos thing.

The Russians... you know, their famous Phobos rocket system that they sent up there some years back which got knocked out of orbit by an ďanomalous objectĒ that came up from the surface. But, it took... It had taken a number of outstanding photographs before it was damaged and crashed.

KC: OK. What... Well, you called it an ďanomalous,Ē I donít know, ďobjectĒ that came up from the surface. Meaning the surface of the Moon?

BD: Mars.

KC: Or from the Earth?

BD: Yes.


BD: No, the Phobos program was sent to Mars because they had hoped to land a lander on the satellite Phobos.

KC: Right.

BD: There are two circling Mars which are anomalous. Again, that fantastic word: anomalous. Astronomers consider them anomalous because, first of all, theyíre going in the wrong direction for a natural satellite, whatever that means.

Theyíre too small to be natural satellites, and theyíre too close to the surface of Mars to have survived because, if they were natural, they would long ago have been brought down, sucked in by gravity, and crashed. The fact that theyíre still there puzzles everybody.

So the Russians said: Weíre going to land on Phobos. Itís about twelve miles in diameter. I think Deimos is only about six or seven. And they were going to take some pictures on the surface. Well, you know, apparently the intelligences up there decided, No, youíre not going to do that, and bumped Phobos - the satellite that the Soviets sent up - knocked it out of orbit, and it crashed, apparently.

KC: But theyíve been doing that to the JPL craft going up and around Mars for years now.

BD: There is an intelligence on Mars that wants to limit our access to their reality. And theyíve done a damn pretty good job of it.

KC: Well, our witness, Henry Deacon... and I donít know if youíre familiar with him.

BD: Iím familiar with him. I donít know him well.

KC: OK. He has said that the Anunnaki are on Mars... in bases.

BD: They are. I agree with that.

KC: So, are they the ones shooting down those objects? You know, the various craft from JPL, and so on?

BD: Probably... Look, Zecharia has said... And, I know this old man; I respect him tremendously. Ah... he says they never left. They withdrew overtly from their activities on the planet with us, but their activities have continued covertly both on Earth, the Moon, and Mars.

And from the knowledge I have and the limited amount of information Iíve been able to get, the primary focus, the primary intelligence behind all of this, are the Anunnaki, the same group that genetically engineered us so many thousands of years ago.

KC: OK. But youíve got Enki and Enlil, right? And these are warring brothers, and one is working for the positive side of humanity and the other...

BD: Well, you have this dysfunctional family. They even went to war with each other, and man was in the middle, as he always has been. You know, we were a product of their engineering. They engineered us as a slave species. They engineered us to work for them.

KC: But arenít they still at war?

BD: Apparently, there is still... and some of our remote viewers... and I know a few of them... Iíve done a little of it myself, and, believe me, it works. Iíve been accused of being guilty of front-loading, so to speak, because when I want to look at something, I know what I want to look at.

The military originally trained their guys to not know what they were looking for, and then they would down-load, you know, compare and such.

KC: Right.

BD: But, when I want to look at something, I know exactly what I want to look at. One of the greatest, of course, is Ingo Swann.

KC: Oh, absolutely.

BD: Oh, a tremendous guy! What an intellect that guy is!

KC: Oh, incredible. Weíre dying to interview him. Do you know him?

BD: He and I have corresponded. Yes. I wrote a nice article about him one time years ago, and he wrote me a letter and thanked me for it and told me he appreciated it a lot.

KC: Lovely. Yes.

BD: But he is a rare man. Heís a rare intellect. Not only is he probably the best remote viewer weíve ever had, perhaps, other than Pat Price, that... Ingoís come up with stuff on the Moon that... Youíd have to read his book.

KC: Actually, I have.

BD: Penetration. Itís dynamite.

KC: And itís hard to get a hold of, I understand.

BD: Yes. It should be re-issued because itíd sell like hot cakes.

KC: Absolutely.

BD: I spoke about it on Coast-to-Coast a couple of times with Art Bell, and apparently it became so damn hot that, you know, you canít find a copy... two or three hundred dollars each, if you can find one.

KC: Yes, well I have... I donít know if I still have it, but I had one.

BD: Well, hold onto it. Itís gold.

KC: Uh huh.

BD: But Ingo is gold, himself.

KC: OK. But letís kind of move back to the question, because I want to get, sort of, drilled down to this answer. So theyíre still at war?

BD: They still have a difference of opinion about us. Now, whether Enlil and...

KC: Enki.

BD: Ea... Enki... He goes by two names. Whether they still are alive or not... With the genetic geniuses that they have been, that they are, they can genetically manipulate... You know, they ingeniously genetically manipulated their own chromosomes, DNA, till they literally have become practically immortal.

Now, I wouldnít be a bit surprised if Enki and Enlil may still be alive. Maybe theyíre running around with a cane, like I do, [Kerry laughs] grunting and groaning. You know, theyíve got the great-great-grandkids doing the running and... I donít know that, and Iím sure that no one else does.

But, apparently the factions are still divided, and the one side wants to use us as they always did. And the other side wants to give us the opportunity to be our own species, to chart our own future, and to call... you know, to determine our own lives. And there apparently has been this difference of opinion going on.

KC: So, when we get back to the national security state, and the state of the U.S. right here and now... I mean, youíre an ex-military. I hardly want to call you ďexĒ because I think youíre, in some ways, probably still consulted here and there. You know, weíre about to go to war with Iran...

BD: No, weíre not.

KC: Whatís youíre perspective on this? Weíre not?

BD: No, weíre not.


BD: And thatís my opinion, for whatever itís worth, you know.

KC: Sure.

BD: I have a half-penny in my pocket... I donít believe that weíre going to have a nuclear war because I donít think the custodians will allow it. The planet is too valuable. Itís too rich a reservoir of life. Not only the humans that are here on this planet, but all the other creatures. This planet is an absolute cornucopia of beautiful, beautiful forms of life. And, not only that, but the... What is it? The fauna and the... whatís the other term?

KC: The flora?

BD: The flora! The flora is infinite, almost. No, the planetís too valuable.


BD: Theyíve got a lot invested in planet Earth and theyíre not about to let it go to a nuclear war, because they have the power to see that it does not happen.

And I want to tell you something else. Youíve heard this old rumor about the ďPrime DirectiveĒ?

KC: Mm hm.

BD: Bullshit! It doesnít exist. [Kerry laughs]

KC: Right. OK.

BD: They have been interfering here, breaking the so-called Prime Directive, over centuries, thousands of times. They have been interfering, according to our historical records, back to ancient Greece. They probably had a hand in that damn dust-up at Troy. You know, they took sides. There were even rumors in Homerís reports that the gods themselves came down and took sides and played in the game. To them, itís a game.

KC: Right. Well, the Bhagavad Gita, if youíre familiar with it... I mean they go into...

BD: There you are... filled with it. The Vedas are filled with it, you see.

KC: Absolutely.

BD: Richard Thompson is a genius. Heís written a book about it. Alien Identities itís called.

KC: OK. Iíll take a look.

BD: You ought to read it if you get a chance. Richard Thompson

KC: Yes, Iíd love to.

BD: He helped...

KC: OK. Iím going to change gears.

BD: He worked with Cremo on the...

KC: Oh, really.

BD: Yes. They jointly wrote that book on The Hidden History of the Human Race.

KC: Oh, OK.

BD: Cremo and Thompson wrote that. Well, Richard wrote a book of his own called Alien Identities and itís filled with Vedic facts which you would enjoy.

KC: Yes.

BD: But the historyís pretty clear. Theyíve intervened over the centuries again, and again, and again, wherever it seemed appropriate to their benefit on their behalf.

KC: OK, but...

BD: Theyíve gotten in our wars. Theyíve messed around in that whole mess.

KC: OK, but what about Planet X?

BD: Oh, itís a reality.

KC: Yes?

BD: Yes.

KC: So what are they going to do about that?

BD: Well, apparently they are concerned about... You know the story. According to Sitchin and according to the Sumerians, itís a reality. Well, our astronomers apparently have concluded that it is indeed a reality.

For almost a century, astronomers have been concerned and interested about what they called an intruder that seems to come and go from time to time. And, they can measure it by the perturbations and the effects on other planets.

Theyíve known of its existence for a long time, but theyíve never gone public about it. Well, in the early í80s, the JPL... The guys at ...

KC: Jet Propulsion Lab.

BD: Jet Propulsion... We used to call it the Jack Parsonsí Laboratory, which I think is probably where the original JPL came from.

KC: Yes.

BD: Because Jack Parsons established it. Anyhow, they sent out a couple of Pioneers Ė satellites - back in í82, just to try to determine if there was some truth to it. And the Pioneers apparently came back with data which said not only Yes, but Hell, Yes! And the Pioneers concluded... the Pioneer satellite data concluded.

So, wow! Astronomers were troubled by that. Whew! Could this thing be real? Well, and what did they do?


They sent out what they call an infrared astronomical satellite. I think they called it IRAS. And this was done in í83. They sent the IRAS out, taking infrared pictures all around the ecliptic, above and below.

And apparently IRAS got two giant, positive responses that yes, the twelfth planet, the tenth planet, however you want to call it... yes, itís real. And thatís when the lid slammed down.

KC: So itís out there. Itís on its way back in, right?

BD: According to the Sumerians and Sitchin, apparently it is. And if you are a student of history as I - one of my majors - its last pass was 1600 BC. The Sumerians, and Sitchin, and all of those say it has an orbit of 3600 years.

KC: Mm hm.

BD: So, like many of us, you know, I count on my fingers and toes and figure out... Well, 1600 BC. It has an orbit of 3600 years. Wow! Itís due! Well, apparently, it is. Now.

KC: So why are they keeping this a secret?

BD: Because...

KC: Because youíre an expert on secrets.

BD: Listen [sighs]... Every time Nibiru would make a pass, it was not always devastating. It would depend on whether the planet Earth and Nibiru were on the same side of the Sun at the same time. And if we were on the same side of the Sun at the same time, all hell would break loose on planet Earth.

Well, apparently the last pass triggered the explosion of Santorini. Thera, the volcano in the Mediterranean, the Aegean Sea, blew its top, brought to a close the great, great Minoan civilization, among other things.

It affected Egypt. Itís all in the records, apparently. There are even historians and theologians who say that Santoriniís explosion is exactly what youíre reading about when the plagues and all hit Egypt, and allowed Moses to get the Israelites out.

But if you look at 1600 BC and figure... and that was the relatively recent past. Itís due now, and apparently the guys in the astronomical observatories know it. And that, again, is Above Top Secret.

Let me give you a tiny example: A number of years ago, there were two brilliant guys working at the Naval Observatory in Washington. Tom Van Flandern is one, who I hope youíve interviewed.

KC: No, but please continue. Weíd love to do that.

BD: Heís no longer with the Naval Observatory. The other one was the Chief Astronomer at the Observatory, a brilliant man by the name of Robert Harrington.

KC: Right.

BD: And Harrington gave an interview to Zecharia Sitchin a number of years ago, I think it was í91 or so, where he came right out and said:

Dr. Sitchin, we are interested in this because it ties in perfectly with the work youíve done on the Sumerians and the ancient planet Nibiru. He said: Weíve found it. Itís real. We have photographs of it. And, he says, from what we can put together, itís a rather nice planet.

Itís about two and a half times the size of the Earth. Apparently itís heading toward the system, the center of the system. Weíve concluded about everything about it, except that we havenít named it.

And Zecharia spoke up and he said: Itís already been named. He said: You simply call it Nibiru, as the Sumerians called it... The Planet of the Crossing.

KC: Mm hmm

BD: Well, Mrs. Sitchin and I were in agreement. I miss her. She died about a year ago. She was convinced that Robert Harrington had died because somebody bumped him off because he had the courage to come out and give Zecharia this interview.

I donít know whether youíve seen it or not. Itís on tape.

KC: No, I havenít seen it, but we interviewed Luca Scantamburlo about this subject and heís also talked about Robert Harrington.

BD: Yes. Well, Harrington gave the interview to Zecharia, and itís on a video called Are We Alone? And I think you can pick it up at the conference here next week.


BD: I have a copy. And I sent a copy to Neil Freer, whoís a man you should interview.

KC: OK. Well, weíre in touch with Neil. Heís a very interesting guy. Heís a brilliant guy.

BD: Heís brilliant. He just recently came out and admitted that heís had an intimate inter-relationship with extraterrestrial intelligence since he was a child.

KC: Well, heís always talking about the Anunnaki. I do know this.

BD: Well, he wrote a book called Breaking the God Spell. And he has supported Zechariaís work for years.

BR: I have a question, Bob, if I may, about the provenance of this information, in the sense that Zecharia Sitchinís work is very well documented, and a lot of people watching this video will be very familiar with his books and with all the intelligent commentary about that.

Are you saying you have additional information based on your contacts within the Old Boys Network? Or are you doing a neat presentation of...?

BD: Many of my conclusions are my own, you know, and they, in many respects, correlate perfectly with Sitchinís work which is... You know, Neil has told me... He says, you know, Zecharia really should get the Nobel Prize. But I donít know what they would grant it to him, in what field. But heís such an outstanding scholar in what heís done and with his...The Earth Chronicles is what he calls all of his work. I think there are seven or eight of them now.

BR: I have two questions. One is a minor one to do with celestial mechanics. And itís just something that Iíve never understood. And Iíve heard this from... Iíve heard this question from many other people, as well... that if Nibiru comes from the outer reaches of the solar system, itís going to be an icy rock, which isnít going to be the kind of place that any beings could live on, or would want to live on.

And researcher Andy Lloyd, who you have probably heard about, has theorized that what theyíre seeing in the photographs that you refer to as an orange object is actually a Brown Dwarf, with the possibility of Nibiru being one of its moons, if you like.

And thereís a lot of debate about how to apply what Sitchin seems to have been saying to the real practicalities of life on an icy rock out in the orbit of Pluto. And I wondered if you knew, or had anything to say about that.

BD: No, itís not an icy rock. And yes, when it makes its long journey out and back, it gets so far away from the sun that the sun is probably no more than a little tiny prick of light, a little tiny pinpoint. And you would think that it would be naturally icy cold.

No, it ... Apparently the planet, like many planets in the system here, generates its own heat. It has in its core a generating heat system very much like our own.

We have a system within the core of this planet that is a... that has been described as a thermonuclear reaction, very similar to the sun. Now, most of the life and all of the bounty and all of the beauty of life on this planet comes from our going around this beautiful sun.

But I donít think Nibiru is an icy rock. No. I think, first of all, that it probably generates enough of its own heat, and I think they probably did, indeed, create for themselves, with the advanced technology that they have, a kind of a Dyson sphere. Are you familiar with that?

BR: Mm hm.

BD: You know what, the brilliant British astronomer, I think, Freeman Dyson, said some years ago that an incredibly advanced technology will have the ability to enclose its planet and retain not only its heat, but its atmosphere. And I suspect that the Anunnaki have done that to Nibiru. And they probably did it... good lord... hundreds or thousands or maybe a million years ago.

So the planet... I think the color from it, the dull red-golden color, is a result of that envelope of gold shell that theyíve created. Theyíve created for themselves a Dyson sphere around their planet. And I suspect that any advanced technology will ultimately do the same, simply because it makes sense. Itís a practical thing.

BR: If they had that degree of engineering capability, why wouldnít they just live on Mars instead of hurtling through the solar system?

BD: Well, they werenít the original occupants of Mars.


BD: They used Mars as a way-station, and theyíve reactivated it. I agree with Zecharia on that, that theyíve reactivated their way-system, their way-station there. They used to drop off on Mars on their way here.

So they were never, I donít think, original inhabitants of Mars.

BR: No. I like what youíre saying.

BD: There are a few remnants of the original inhabitants on Mars. There is even some indications which Iíve been looking into, and Iíve gotten some data, that weíre playing host to a bunch of Martians here on this planet. Iím talking about the original species.

BR: Do you know anything about the original Martian species? Or, have you ever...

BD: Other than... The only thing... Iíve talked to a couple of remote viewers whoíve apparently been able to come face-to-face with them, so to speak, and they ended up looking a lot like American Indians.

BR: Mm hm. OK.

BD: And I may have met a Martian [laughing]. Iíve known so many strange people in my life.

BR: Sure. I mean, I understand this well enough to know not to laugh at a comment like that. Thatís for sure, so...

That, believe it or not, was meant to be a minor question. I have a more major one, something that I thought you might want to talk about. Or, maybe I misunderstood you a little earlier on, I think, in a conversation that Kerry had reported with you.

Some serious researchers, Linda Howe, Jim Marrs, quite a lot of other people, are really suspecting that there may a hoaxed alien invasion as a kind of major celestial 911 event in our skies.

BD: Youíre talking about a false flag kind of situation?

BR: False flag, yes. And,..

BD: If we were to pull that off... If any of our idiot nitwits back there think that they could pull that off, I think theyíd make absolute damn fools of themselves. Because I donít believe it would work. I donít think you can do that when youíve got the real power out there that wouldnít allow that to happen!

BR: Not so much an ďinvasion,Ē but a big display in the sky to create fear and make you believe... to control... like Carol Rosen said that she had always been told by Wernher von Braun many years ago.

BD: Yes, Wernher shared that, apparently, before he died, that he... It was one of the programs that the government at the time was considering. You know, theyíve had these little plots theyíve been working on all the time. This war, that war, a stock market crash... this, that, you know... all these little magician things that, that while Iím showing you this hand, Iím picking your pocket with this one.

They may have had that in mind at that time, but I donít think theyíre thinking of it seriously now, because I think that our so-called Powers That Be - which is a joke - are in such close relationship and collusion with the real power [points upward] that it would never work. They would never allow it.

Itís like theyíre [points upward] not going to allow a thermonuclear war.

BR: Yes.

BD: Thereís too much valuable real estate here! Not just this rich gold mine of human genetics. What a ripe reservoir we are, of genes and... God! The whole species plus all of the other fauna and all of the other flora... this is a valuable planet. And they love it. They own it!

Weíve never owned it. We just live on it. They farm us, so to speak. God! [sighs] [Kerry laughs]

Charles Forte was right, to some degree. We are property. And weíre going to remain property until we reach a point where we can literally stand up and say: All right. Weíre going to do this now ourselves. And prove it to the universe.

Weíre dealing with a universe filled with life! And most of it is so far beyond our own! I used an analogy one time. And I said: They look upon us like we look upon head-hunters in New Guinea.

Now, youíve seen the films, you know, History Channel and all the rest. Theyíre naked. Theyíre running around with these stupid things on their penises and, you know, bones through their... whatever. Pathetic, sad, primitive savages. Theyíre not to be feared. Theyíre not to be abused. Theyíre to be nurtured and cared for.

Well, the difference between some of them out there [points upward] and us is the difference between us and these poor guys in New Guinea and those rain forests out there.

Now, I joked about that, and then I learned later that that wasnít really a very accurate comparison. I learned later that I didnít even come close to an appropriate comparison! That the real comparison between many of them [points upward] out there and us is closer to how we feel about the chimpanzee.

And, Bill, if you allow your mind to take those trips, and I know you do, there are creatures and life forms out there that are literally god-like. A lot of the remote viewers who have encountered them - and Iíve seen a few of them myself - look upon them as transcendentals.

They manifest as living energy life forms, forms of light. Theyíre the same kind that appeared when Jesus was walking around. Probably the same kind of guys that showed up for poor... what was it? Joseph Smith. I know the history of the Mormon faith. Poor Joe had an event one time happening in his bedroom where two brilliant, beautiful, tall, glimmering, glistening beings of pure light appeared in his bedroom. Those were transcendentals.

Now, the difference between them and us is between us and the Rhesus monkey. [Bill laughs] So, I think Iím getting close. Maybe not. But Iím thinking Iím getting close to an analogy that may be more realistic.

I have nothing but hope because Iím an immortal being. Iím an infinite life form. If you could see me the way I really am, Bill, it wouldnít be in this pathetic body with the ...

BR: Itís only our bodies weíre describing.

BD: Oh, thatís right! You know, this is just the shell. Iíve had it for 79 years. Iíve used it badly, and Iíve abused it over the years. [Kerry laughs] And Iím beginning to pay the lessons, the prices, for that. But if you could see me as I can see you... We are shimmering beings of light.

BR: Yes.

KC: Absolutely. Well, OK. I have a question for you because heís [meaning Zecharia Sitchin] got a book out called End of Days.

BD: Yes.

KC: And, in that book, he actually talks about Nibiru and the return. But he doesnít say that itís actually going to happen now.

BD: He says... He thinks itís about 2060. That was his estimate.


KC: OK. And so, where does this information that you have, and 2012... How do we put this all together? Because Iím going to say something about what youíre telling us... because itís clear that youíre something of an intelligence analyst yourself. You certainly have an incredible background. You can cross-correlate, and so on. But you also have some insider contacts. And you also have contact with Anunnaki, as youíve said. All right?

So, where are you getting your information? And are they saying anything specific about whatís happening in 2012? Because Iím not so sure about Zechariaís conclusion.

BD: He said 2060, but apparently it could be before that. The Department of Defense is quite concerned about it. There are entire sections of the Defense Department that are working on that subject, particularly.

The big question is: Are we and it going to be on the same side of the sun at the same time? And some of our remote viewers have concluded, yes, itís going to happen this time; that we and it will be on the same side of the sun at the same time.

And if the remote viewer... And theyíre getting their information from ETs, and much of my information is from the same source. And, yes, weíre in for some bad times.

KC: And weíre talking about while weíre still here on the planet, because I donít know that weíd be alive during 2060.

BD: Well, I donít know whether Iíll still be here or not. You know, Iíll be 80 in March and, you know, Iíve got a ticket out of here.

KC: Right.

BD: Iíve got it stamped. Iíve got it paid. Iím nine years beyond my warranty as it is!

KC: [laughing] No, but I think that youíre going to live quite a while. So, what... OK. So weíve got this interesting thing going on and weíre getting... We have a huge crack-down on anything to do with Planet X.

BD: Yes.

KC: Itís been made the laughing stock. Itís an amazing thing!

BD: Oh, the ridicule is [shakes head]...

KC: I mean, I think it supersedes even the ET ridicule.

BD: Oh, it does! It does.

KC: I think itís been so strong. And it actually has come, I would say, from the Vatican.

BD: Mm hm.

KC: So what are they so afraid of, number one? And, number two, have you heard the theory that basically what has to happen is, a protective shield is going to be put around the Earth such that this time itís actually not going to have the impact that it has in the past?

BD: Iíve heard that rumor in passing, and the technology exists to do that. What I have a suspicion is that much of what will transpire will be allowed to transpire. The Earth is not going to be destroyed, and the human race is not going to come to an end. But it is going to be a difficult period of time when it begins. And let me tell you, it has already begun.

The reaction from the sun is a clear response to the presence of this other body. Now, this other body has already been photographed by telescopes in southern Chili and in New Zealand.

I had asked Marcia to dig into her files. I had an article from a good friend who publishes a magazine in Rome. Adriano. I donít know whether you know about Adriano Forgione. Brilliant young man.

KC: Yes.

BD: Anyhow, he has connections with the Vatican. He has good friends who are Jesuit priests and astronomers. And the Vatican is concerned about it. Anyhow, Adriano sent me an article, including two photographs that have been taken of Nibiru - already! - taken by, primarily, I think, this observatory in Chile.

But theyíve taken pictures at an observatory in New Zealand, as well. So, itís close enough now that optical telescopes have pictures of it and theyíre studying it carefully to try to determine... what is it they call it... the celestial mechanics of how everything moves.

Well, if our remote viewers are correct and the ETs have given us some run-down on it, itís going to be a difficult passing. Because we and it are going to be on the same side of the sun at the same time. And that means all hellís going to break loose.

Now, they have the technology. Weíre talking about not only Anunnaki. There are intelligences out there that began a billion years ago. And they have technology that puts them in a category of what Kaku would call a Type III Civilization.

KC: Mm hm.

BD: So, a Type III Civilization has the technology to ameliorate or mitigate the passing of Nibiru. Now, whether they do that, as you say, put a protective shield around it...

Nibiru has done that for itself. They have a protective shield around their planet which is why in the photographs it comes out as kind of reddish-gold. And apparently thatís why they came here for the gold in the first place. Because they were losing their atmosphere and they needed to seed gold particles in their atmosphere to keep the atmosphere from... You know, they go on a long trip out there.

KC: OK, but the Anunnaki are here, youíre saying. And yet, the Anunnaki are supposedly on Nibiru as well. Or, what are you thinking? Or, whatís your sources telling you about this?

BD: The civilization, the Anunnaki civilization, is on the planet, but the Anunnaki are on this planet as well, all over the damn place... under the sea. The facilities that we know about... inside Mount Hayes in Alaska, inside Mount Perdido in the Pyrenees. Thereís one right in the middle of Australia which is near... what, Alice Springs. And whatís the facility out there?

BR: Pine Gap.

BD: Pine Gap! Yes. Thank you, my friend. Pine Gap.

BR: Are you referring to...

BD: And that happens to be the R&R facility, according to the remote viewers.

KC: Whatís R&R? Iím sorry...

BD: Rest and relaxation. [Kerry laughs] Itís what we used to call it in the military when we...

KC: The R&R facility for who? What, the Anunnaki?

BD: For the ETs and the Anunnaki. Yes.

KC: Pine Gap.

BD: And theyíre dealing with human beings, they need rest and relaxation! [Kerry laughs] But, anyhow, the rumor is that Pine Gap is primarily an R&R facility.

KC: Have you been there?

BD: Iíve been to Australia. I havenít been to Pine Gap, no. [smiles]

KC: Would you lie to me?

BD: Sometimes, maybe, but not right now, no.


BD: No, I havenít been to Pine Gap.

A lot of my work has been a result of analyzing and sifting and evaluating the work of others. Thatís what an intelligence analyst does, takes data from a variety of sources.

But I have some information that I have been provided from sources within the U.S. government that tell me that, yes, they are deeply concerned about it. And, theyíre worried sick about it. And they donít know what to do about it, because we donít have the power to do a damn thing about it!

BR: Is the estimated date, as best you are given time to understand by your sources, in the next few years, rather than Sitchinís estimate of 2060?

BD: Well, let me tell you something about... You talking about 2012?

BR: Iím talking... well, there are some serious Planet X researchers who say that weíll see the thing next year, and things could be starting...

BD: I think you may see it next year, but I donít think youíre going to have all hell breaking loose until maybe about 2020. Youíre going to have a build-up of factors. Itís not going to happen all of a sudden, just like that. [snaps fingers] Youíre not going to go out the front door and all hellís breaking loose.

Youíre going to see a series of events taking place involving our geologic structures. Youíre going to have increased volcanic activity. Youíre going to have increased sun spot activity. Weíre at a low right now!

KC: Mm hm.

BD: But you are going to see tremendous sun spot activity. Youíre going see tremendous geologic activity. The Ring of Fire will probably erupt. Now, these are all going to be clues that all hell is coming, you know.

Youíre going to have storms. The cyclones have been getting worse, and the hurricanes have been getting worse. Youíll begin having hurricanes showing up in places that they really havenít troubled us for a long, long time.

So, youíre going to have a build-up. Not slowly, but a consistent build-up of geological and weather and sun spot activities. And youíre probably going... The estimate that Iíve heard from people who have studied it, is about 2020.

KC: OK, but we have heard that Sitchin, as well-meaning as he may be, is working for the government. And my understanding would be, is they donít want this information out. So theyíre doing everything in their power to make sure that itís ridiculed, as weíve observed.

BD: Kerry, what could the government, or anyone else, tell you? What could they say to you? Would they tell you that... Grab your hat, dig a hole, hang on? Would anything they say....

KC: Well, is that what the underground bases is all about?

BD: Well, I have always had the conviction - and Iíve put this together over the years - that the so-called elite, the crŤme de la crŤme (theyíre self-designated, you know), they have been preparing for chaos for years!

It initially was initiated by the thermonuclear threat with the Soviets - underground, you know, fall-out shelters where we could go. We have our own air-conditioning. We can have our own food supplies and our own water supplies.

That was a program that began that I worked very closely with when I was with FEMA over the years. Iíve been in underground facilities you wouldnít believe!

KC: Mm hm.

BD: And there are facilities everywhere that are not known. I mean, thereís a big facility right under Fort Wachuga here in Arizona. I mean a massive one! That will never come out. Iím telling it now, but, you know... Thereís a deep, deep, massive underground facility under Fort Wachuga. Theyíre all over the place.

And I went to a Department of Energy school at Camp Mercury in Nevada. That was the first time I visited Site 51. I may have shared that with you.

KC: Mm hm.

BD: Anyhow, I went to school in, oh, í79, a Department of Energy school on radioactive emergency disaster response, anyhow.

KC: So, you went into the underground base at 51?

BD: No, I talked to the guys who built some of them. I also took a bus ride over the pass from Camp Mercury, which is the atomic test facility there, over the pass. I went into Site 51, Groom Lake, from the rear. And it was no big thing, just a tremendous facility there. Most of it was underground. And the hangars...

KC: So. OK. First they reacted to the Soviet threat and all that, and the nuclear...

BD: Itíll build up slowly, and itís already subtly begun. And they donít want to talk about it. No one wants to share it. I mean, look, for Godís sake, at the lid theyíve kept on the reality of ET activity on the Moon and Mars!

KC: Mm hm.

BD: With the ridicule factor, and the lid coming down... I think Robert Harrington did lose his life because he said too much. He says: Oh, it seems to be a rather nice planet, and we know about it, and all we need to do is name it. And, then, bless his heart... You know, heíd never had a heart problem, but within a year he was dead with a heart attack.

You know, when Ike met that crowd at Muroc, which is now Edwards...

KC: Right.

BD: í54, he met the Anunnaki.

KC: Mm.

BD: Poor Ike, not long after that, had a heart attack. It was more than he was able to deal with. The shock of that reality took a toll on him.

KC: Mm.

BD: And thatís one of the reasons why the Brookings Report reached the conclusion it did! You canít tell those poor folks out there all this. They couldnít handle it! Well, B.S. They can handle it! Damn... Human beings can handle anything.

KC: [laughs] I have to agree with you.

BD: I mean, weíve gone through hell over the centuries.

KC: Absolutely.

BD: We can handle Attila the Hun and Adolf Hitler, we can handle anything. Weíve been designed to handle anything. We havenít been designed to live very long, but then again, thereís another story there.

KC: Right.

BD: Where did you think that this tremendous outpouring of knowledge on the double helix, our RNA, our DNA, and all of that, has been coming forth? Is there some connection with the fact that maybe we now have a relationship with the guys who originally designed us in the first place?

KC: Sure.

BD: Of course we have. Weíre now in the process of redesigning and engineering our own DNA. And weíre being told how. Weíre being shown how. And thank God theyíre sharing it with us now, because the first time poor old Adama and Ewa wanted the knowledge, they threw íem out of the Garden, as it were, you know?

And thatís another thing I want to talk about briefly in passing... is that thereís no such thing as original sin. And thatís a crock of manure thatís been forced down your throats for thousands of years. There is no such thing as original sin. The human race never fell. It was pushed! [Kerry laughs]

And this species that you and I are a part of, this beautiful, wonderful, hopefully incredible race of humans does have a future. And it is in the stars. And we are going out there to reclaim our rightful place, where we should have been in the first place.

KC: OK. And this gets into the Secret Space Program and terraforming, because there is some terraforming going on, preparing for what might happen if Nibiru comes through, and if the Earth is in such a state... Weíre talking about terraforming Mars, maybe beyond. Have you heard things about this?

BD: Yes, terraforming is a fine art. Itís been going on for millions of years. The Earth itself was terraformed.

KC: Right.

BD: You know, it was prepared. The Garden was prepared for life. And then life was introduced and has been nurtured since, from the very beginning. Terraforming is a fine art, and some of those guys out there whoíve been around a billion years are pretty good at it!

So, you see, I donít know whether theyíre planning to re-terraform us after Nibiru passes. Or whether they are going to try to help alleviate the damage in the meantime? I would suspect the latter.

Maybe they are planning, through their engineering genius... and, my god, the fact is... You know, theyíve got artificially constructed objects in space in the rings of Saturn that are over 2,000 miles long! Space ships 2,000 miles long! I have pictures. Iíll share them next week.

KC: OK. What about John Walson? Are you familiar with his pictures of the craft around the sun?

BD: Iíve heard of it, but I havenít seen them.

KC: All right. Just wondering.

BD: Weíve got objects... I have photographs taken by Apollo 13 of alien ships five miles long, and Iím showing those over at San Jose.

KC: Wonderful.

BD: And those were taken by our own astronauts. Now, you get the guys on Apollo 13 - and theyíre all, from what I understand, all three still alive - and you wonít get a one of íem to admit who snapped the shutter on that camera. But the film is there and the negative number is there. The roll number is there. And, there it is - a NASA photograph of a five-mile-long artificial space ship! Now... And thatís only... Thatís small.

KC: Well, letís talk about the astronauts for a minute, because... Whatís going on with Clark McClelland? And why is he having such a problem coming forward?

BD: I didnít know Clark was having a problem.

KC: He has a book that heís trying to write. Heís penniless. Heís had a terrible time. They donít want him to talk.

BD: No. They probably donít.

KC: OK. And, have you met... You know, have you talked to the astronauts? What about Edgar Mitchell? Have you talked to Edgar Mitchell?

BD: I... I talked, before he died, with Gordon Cooper. I was on the phone a few times with Cooper. He even sent me an autographed photograph of himself. I admired him because he was one of the mavericks that had the courage to come out and say what he had seen.

Iíve known Ed Mitchell for some years. Every time I get a chance to see him, I chat with him, and I consider him a delightful man. Heís very warm and terribly bright.

KC: Are they mind-controlled?

BD: To some degree.

KC: Have their minds been wiped?

BD: Cooper... Cooper never was.


BD: They never got to Gordon. And I donít think they got to Neil Armstrong either. But, all of the rest of them, to some level, have been kind of ... whatís the word Iím looking for here? [sighs] They have been conditioned not to speak. And in some cases, they may have been hypnotically effected to not remember.

In Dark Mission, Hoagland says - and the evidence is pretty clear - that they hypnotically... Debriefed is what they called it. But, supposedly, they were hypnotized to help them enhance their memory, to recall. Apparently some of them had been hypnotically advised not to remember certain things.

As much as I admire Ed Mitchell and respect him - a tremendous, wonderful guy - he has admitted publicly in front of other people that his time on the Moon, walking on the Moon, was kind of vague. He canít... He canít recall everything. And, of course, thatís sad.

I donít think they ever got to Neil Armstrong because when he got back he left the program, said: To hell with it, Iím out of here. He went back to Cincinnati and started teaching math at the university there. And Armstrong hasnít said five words publicly since.

KC: Uh huh.

BD: And then you have the case of Aldrin. Now, Aldrin has had experiences where he has been with friends and the subject would come up. And Buzz would start to cry or he would get nauseated.

One time - and Hoagland touches upon this, I think, in Chapter Ten in the book - where Aldrin was in conversation with a few people and with his wife, having a few drinks and it was just relaxed. And somebody asked him a blunt, straight-to-the-point question, and he had to run out and throw up. He got sick!

Now, this, to me, is the result... and Iíve studied it enough over the years to know that it sounds to me like hypnotic suggestion.

KC: Mm hm.

BD: He has been hypnotically conditioned not to remember, or to not even discuss it. He gets nauseated. And in one instance with a bunch of friends, old Fly Boy types, he ended up starting to cry. Now, this breaks my heart because Aldrin is a good man. He was one of our better men to be selected for that program.

KC: Um hm.

BD: You know... You know the story, and this is common knowledge. They got back from Apollo 11. They put Aldrin in a sanitarium for about six weeks. He had... suffering from alcoholism. Do you believe that? [Kerry laughs]

Do you believe one of our best and bravest, one of the finest in the Apollo Program suffered from alcoholism? Nonsense!

You know... Apparently, it was the programming, to be reinforced. Now why would a grown man with his background break down and cry like a baby or end up getting nauseous and barf on this subject? Thatís hypnotic, post-hypnotic stress.

KC: So what is it on the Moon that is, you know, that is so important that they want to completely whitewash it out of those menís minds?

BD: Oh, my god! The astronomical societies, the professional astronomers in this country, have been guilty of criminal activity! You may quote me. Theyíve been guilty of criminal activity for years to not discuss the reality of what they knew on the Moon.

There are major facilities and major activities going on on the Moon all the time. Not only that, the Moon has water. Now, whether itís a natural process from the satellite, or whether itís water thatís been stored there for use, there are vaporous signs of a form of an atmosphere in the bottom of some of the craters.

Now, astronomers have seen these pictures, but that dishonest bunch of nitwits wonít discuss it. Theyíre scared because... You know why? Ninety percent of their income comes from government grants. And when youíve got a government grant and thatís your prime source of income, youíre going to say whatever the government says you should say. Or donít say whatever the government doesnít want said.

Well, anyhow, there is some atmosphere on the Moon, at least in the base of several of the larger craters. There is water on the Moon. But there is major activity going on! I mean, weíre talking about engineering activity.

There are giant ships that come and go out of the craters. There are lights all the time. They have noticed bridges appearing and then disappearing. I mean, theyíre active as hell on the Moon!

KC: What about...

BD: But the same activity is going on on Mars! Youíve seen my photograph, I guess... Itís not only my photograph. But thereís a city the size of Chicago underground on Mars thatís generating so much heat it shows up in infrared photographs.

KC: Are you in touch with John Lear?

BD: Iíve met John. Iíve been at his house a time or two. Iíve visited him. I have a tremendous respect for him. The reason I like John is, heís been nailed, as I have, as a damn fool maverick, you know?

KC: I mean, this is his pet, you know, project.

BD: The establishment has tried to ridicule John Lear, and you canít ridicule John Lear because heís got sources, similar to some of my own, that are beyond question. Heís getting people inside feeding him information almost on a regular basis. [Kerry laughs] I get mine in bits and pieces when I go to conferences and when I meet people, you know. But John gets it direct.

KC: OK. I have a question for you about Arlington Institute and whatís happening and might be happening in October, because we have a lot of information coming out about October and about something that may be planned. I donít know if youíve heard some of this stuff.

We have... Our top secret witnesses are coming out and saying, you know, that the economy is being engineered to crash here in the U.S, that...

BD: Oh, this whole thing has been engineered.

KC: All right.

BD: Itís been diddled. You know, this is a joke. And the poor guy out there, the poor working man on the street, as it were, is being screwed royally! But, you know, this whole thing... Kerry, I would almost come to a point that 90% of what you call reality - our threats with the Russians, the Georgia invasion, the stock market collapse - all of this is all engineered.

KC: So tell us about it. So tell us about Georgia because... OK, to get back to... I know you know the guy whoís head of, or was head of, the Arlington Institute. They are sending out a newsletter saying... inviting people to tell them what dreams and visions theyíre having about October, because October has become such a hot month.

In tracking, there is something called Half Past Human. Have you heard of them?

BD: In passing.

KC: Theyíre doing, you know... They do language. They track with web bots all over the internet, basically tracking where language is going. Theyíve been doing it since í98 with computers and so on. And they were able to chart, like before 911, this huge raise in consciousness that some event was imminent. What theyíre getting for October is the same thing, only something even more long-range in its effect.

BD: Well, I have a tremendous respect for John Peterson. Heís a brilliant guy.

KC: All right.

BD: Iíve known him for some years.

KC: So, Arlington Institute is suddenly asking for peoplesí dreams and visions about October. Why?

BD: Marcia... Marcia is more in touch with John now than I am. Sheís a computer person, you understand. I wonít touch the damn thing!

KC: I understand.

BD: Because, as I told you earlier, I enjoy my privacy. And if youíre on the world wide web, you donít have any privacy.

KC: OK, I agree with you there, so... OK. But you know him. And Iím just basically... Youíre saying this thing is engineered. So what happened in Georgia? What do you know about it?

BD: Oh, it was all engineered.

KC: OK, so the Russians, you know, were tipped off.

BD: The President of Georgia did what he did just to lure the Russians in.

KC: Right.

BD: And, he went in... The Russians could not have ignored him, for godís sake! He invaded one of their little... well...

KC: So, whatís the purpose behind it, though? We know what happened, but why?

BD: I think... What could the purpose be other than to distract peoplesí attention from this over here to this over here? While our economy was falling around your knees, weíre all paying attention to the Russians invading poor little Georgia!

Well, the Russians didnít invade poor little Georgia. They went out and whacked the President of Georgiaís little pee-pee, as it were. [slaps his hand together]. Stop that! And they pulled back, you know.

KC: Right.

BD: You know how a magician works? He gets you in front of, you know... and heís doing this with this hand while heís picking your pocket with this one.

KC: Thatís right.

BD: And thatís what the government is doing. And when I say government, itís not the government you think youíve got. Itís not the, you know... God, thatís all a faÁade in itself! The government weíve got is probably being totally run by the Anunnaki, because there is a power beyond power [points upward] thatís pulling the strings.

KC: Right.

BD: They call them the Illuminati, but there are guys above the Illuminati that are really in power...

KC: OK. But weíre told the Vatican is behind a lot of it, and that... In other words, the Vatican is behind whatís going on in the U.S., that thereís a plan. And youíve got the Anunnaki. This is not a positive plan, OK? To take down the U.S.

BD: Well, they think it is.

KC: Do you think it is?

BD: Their ultimate idea is, yes, a positive idea.

KC: OK, what is it?

BD: A one-world government.

KC: Oh, all right.

BD: Of course thatís what they want.

KC: Right.

BD: And theyíre going to have it, eventually.

KC: Absolutely. Now, you can have a positive one-world government. Right?

BD: But the growing pains... The growing pains that we go through before we get there... Itís going to be pretty horrendous. Not only are we going to have to put up with this crap with Nibiru, which is a real thing...

But this growing process that weíre going through to end up eventually with a one-world government is going to be painful as hell! And thereís going to be a lot of blood on the streets before itís over with. Sadly enough, thatís, in my opinion, a fact. And thatís being manipulated [points upward] from a very high level.

KC: OK, but we have ďwhite hatsĒ in the U.S. government that are actually trying to prevent this. Are they not?

BD: We have some good men and good women who are well aware of whatís taking place and whatís transpiring. And theyíre trying to modify, ameliorate... Is that the right word? To make this growth pain as painless as possible. Theyíre trying to not have as much blood as it might take.

Growth from adolescence as a species and as a society is somewhat like the painful growth of an adolescent kid 13 years old whoís trying to grow up. Do you remember when you went through that?

KC: Sure.

BD: It was not fun time.

KC: Absolutely. So... OK, but letís get down to the nuts and bolts. The stock market is crashing. You need to invest in gold and silver if you want to stay alive.

BD: The stock market was rotten to its core.

KC: Absolutely. But, are you telling people to leave, to go to South America?

BD: No.

KC: Whatís your advice?

BD: Iím telling people that youíre in for some difficult times, and I say this in my presentations. I jokingly look at them and say: You are all doomed. Thereís not a one of you thatís going to be around a hundred years from now. Youíre doomed! So, the hell with it. Enjoy the ride! [Kerry laughs]

No, I tell people who are interested in listening to whatever it is I have to say, that youíre in for some difficult times. Itís going to happen. There is no way to avoid it. We cannot go on as we were, because some of our systems were rotten to the core.

And, our banking system, the insurance programs, all of that... stock market, Wall Street. Those guys were absolutely rotten.

KC: The housing industry?

BD: The housing industry! That was bound to fail! You talk about a bubble! It was bound to fail. It had to fail. Well, Iím glad it failed. Hope to hell that they learned something from it. Now...

KC: OK, but weíre talking... Are we talking about martial law in the United States? I mean, what are we talking here?

BD: Youíre talking about a time when you may have martial law. Itís only one step away. You know that the authority has been given to the president to declare it.

KC: Right.

BD: Congress gave that authority to the president years ago. Iíve even lost track of how long itís been. But, anyhow, all the president has to do, whoever he may be... and that doesnít matter much anymore either, because one nitwit is very much like the other. You have a ďnational emergency,Ē and itís declared.

KC: Right.

BD: Boom. Martial law! You declare a national emergency which has not been declared yet.

KC: Right.

BD: But weíre right on the edge of it.

KC: Right.

BD: And youíre going to have martial law.

KC: OK, so we donít have an election. Right?

BD: Well, thatís... Youíre thinking about an October surprise?

KC: I have no idea. Iím asking you.

BD: Well, I donít know about that. Iím not sure itíll happen in October. I suspect it may occur within the next year. But I donít know...

I havenít had any dreams. My dreams have been pretty fascinating recently. But none of them have been terribly troubling. And I know this is all happening. Itís going to take place. Itís inevitable. Itís been orchestrated.

The Illuminati do exist. They are in power. Theyíve been in power for years. Theyíve been demonstrating that power ever since 1913 when they created the... What the hell is the banking system?

KC: Federal Reserve.

BD: Federal Reserve, yes, which is a private corporation. We lost most of it in í47. I donít know whether you were aware of that, but that was a big year. National security became everything. It became a member of the triad.

In í47 we declared... We made the National Security Agency. We formed a pact with the Brits, the Australians, the Canadians, and New Zealand, the UKUSA Pact, which most people donít even know exists. The UKUSA crowd, all of us, Britain, the U.S., Canada, New Zealand, Australia, are all like this [clenches hands together]. Whoever is in the White House and whoever is at Buckingham Palace... it donít matter.

KC: All right.

BD: The power behind the scenes has been running this damn thing since 1947, and Ike saw it. It scared the hell out of him. He met the Anunnaki. That scared the hell out of him. So theyíre pulling our strings now, like they always have.

KC: OK, so whatís your solution? What would you tell people? I mean, in facing the future, in trying to reinvent the future. Certainly Marcia is working with people to... to become enlightened, to apply...

BD: Sheís doing a tremendous amount of work to help people trans... make this transition. Kerry, weíre not just going through a transition. Weíre going through a transcendent transformation, literally... a transcendent transformation.

Weíre going to come out of this thing, when itís over with, a totally different species. Weíre not going to be the same people we were in the past. And thatís good! And itís going to hurt. And itís going to be painful.

And I tell people... and Iíve said this repeatedly: Donít get too uptight about it. Youíve been through hell before. Youíre going through a bit of it again. But once itís over, once youíve made that transition, weíre going to have, hopefully, a new world, a new future, a new beginning.

And I think thatís the end of the Great Year that weíre going through. Weíre going through the end of a 26,000-year cycle.

I tell you, 2012... phhhft, donít matter! First of all, Christ was born seven years before. And this is a fact. And if you donít believe me, get Sir Lawrence Gardner, who is probably one of the best historians weíve got working today. Lawrence Gardnerís got the facts. Jesus was born in 7 BC, on the first of March.

Now, if you want to count from his birth, like we supposedly have been doing, add seven years to 2008. You end up with 2015. Thatís pretty close to 20...

KC: Oh, so youíre saying we are actually in the year 2015 now.

BD: Weíre in the year 2015 right now.

KC: Right. So that means that Nibiru... When you say itís coming in 2020, itís actually due in about five years.

BD: Probably.

KC: So, weíre looking at 2013 by our calendar.

BD: Well, no later than 2017 [smiles]. Iíll throw 2017 out.


BD: And you can take that to the bank. [laughter] 2017. Now that...


BD: Thatíll give or take a year or two because the celestial mechanics... They havenít really worked it all out yet. Weíve got computers you wouldnít believe but theyíre still trying to feed in some of the data.

KC: So, are you... Is one of the remote viewers youíre in touch with Ingo Swann?

BD: I havenít been in touch with Ingo for some time, but I... Kerry, Iíve been doing some remote viewing.

KC: Right.

BD: Iíve even had a couple of out-of-body experiences.

KC: Mm hm.

BD: Iíve been doing a lot of meditating. When you go in... When you step into that world, there is no time, and you can talk to anybody, everywhere, all at once. Now, that sounds silly to anyone who doesnít understand what Iím trying to say.

When you step into that realm of timelessness, and you remote view, and you step out of your body, and you go into altered states, and you meditate, youíre in a timeless, infinite reality that people communicate... Youíd be shocked and amazed at the wealth of information thatís out there just to tap into. The old ones used to talk about the Akashic Records.

KC: Mm hm.

BD: Itís real. Itís real! And it isnít just about the past because, Kerry, there is no past, nor is there a future. Thereís only an eternal Now. And a physicist sitting here in this room would say, Balderdash! Because they wouldnít grasp for a minute what Iím trying to talk about. But old Ingo would.

KC: Yes. Absolutely. Well, Iíve been some of those places myself, that youíre talking about.

BD: I knew it! You see...

KC: [laughing] And so I have to say youíre absolutely right, and itís an incredible pleasure for us to hear this from yourself.

And I... You know, I would like to, at this time, just open the floor and say is there anything that we havenít covered here that you would like to talk about? And, then, of course, we would also like to invite Bill to ask you some questions.

BD: Weíve danced around on a whole bunch of things for the last hour. I enjoy it. I enjoy chatting with you two guys. Youíre pleasant people.

As I say, Iím an old codger, and if you plug me in and turn me loose, thereís no telling where I may end up. Iíve been around 79 years this trip. Iíve made a dozen or two previous trips which, amazingly, I remember quite a bit about.

When you start going into that timeless realm, you step into that infinite which weíre all part of, memories of other lives come flooding into you sometimes. Oh, god! The things Iíve seen, the things Iíve done, the places Iíve been... this life... are kind of shocking. The things Iíve done, the places Iíve been, the lives Iíve lived before are beyond belief.

I... Iím not boasting. This is not a boast. But Iím an old soul. Iíve been around on this planet a long time. And, I, amazingly, remember. Some of the memories I would rather not remember because theyíre painful.

Hell! I have memories of Sumer. I knew the Anunnaki back then, worked with them. I was one of their products. I know them now. And I donít have any fear.

And, in bringing this to a close, I would like to say to whoever is watching: Get rid of the fear. You have nothing to fear. You are an immortal, timeless being who has an infinite future in a glorious universe thatís so filled with beauty and light that we on this little tiny planet couldnít begin to grasp. [clenches fists]

But I say to people, Donít be afraid, for godís sake! Gather around you those you love. Spread that love around and go into tomorrow with courage because youíve been through a hell of a lot worse before.

So, be hopeful. Love one another. And have courage. And thatís really all I have to say.

KC: Well, thank you, Bob Dean. Itís really an honor and a pleasure.

BD: Thank you, Kerry Cassidy. I enjoyed every minute of it.